They Go... Who Decides? (Big Jürgen Is Watching You)

A number of posts, through a number of threads, [regarding the autonomy Jürgen has over transfers/squad], got me thinking... this is a serious issue which has been at the core of many a debate and, worse still... the reason behind some major bust ups.

People have, it seems, changed their stance on 'who' exactly is ultimately responsible for transfers. Sometimes changing their opinion on a player, by player, basis: dependant on the current form of that player, often leading to friction as they do.

Most recently the groundswell of opinion appears to be that, in fact, Jürgen has 'full control'; that 'things will change' and we will undoubtedly 'see a marked difference in the transfer market'.

I like every other Red (no doubt) would love such assertions to be true but given Ian Ayre's take on things [Transfer Committee]: what, once and for all do you believe to be true? 

1: Is Jürgen really in control?

2: Will Jürgen merely (as Ayre infers) just be following the tried and tested? Or..

3: Will we see the status quo remain (amongst posters, that is) wherein, the boss will get kudos for transfers which work while the Transfer Committee will be blamed for any flops? [for a while anyhow]

Personally speaking; I believe the difference will lie in if Jürgen has been given "first call" (not just last) but...

... Without further ado - nail your colours to the mast troops - 1:, 2: or 3: ?

 
* N.B. For what it's worth and as it might help you decide, here's Ian Ayre's take:

Jürgen Klopp has “final say” despite Liverpool’s transfer committee approach – Ian Ayre

Ayre, speaking at the Web Summit in Dublin this week, said that Klopp “has the final say” on all Liverpool transfers – a policy that continues from Brendan Rodgers‘ reign.

“There’s only one person that has the final say over what players [we sign] at Liverpool Football Club and that’s Jürgen Klopp right now,” he insisted.

"That’s always been the case for as long as I’ve been here"...

... "the manager will say we are looking for somebody in this position and a bunch of people – a mix of traditional scouts and more recently analytical and digital-based information – bring all of that together as was always the case,” he said.

“Then we look at two, three, four players, the best players for that position, show them to the manager and the manager can go watch or have the scouts go watch those players and narrow it down.

“At that point I’ll become more involved and start talking to clubs, agents, players on a negotiations basis and then the manager will choose.”


http://www.thisisanfield.com/2015/11/Jürgen-klopp-has-final-say-despite-liverpools-transfer-committee-approach-ian-ayre/

** I don't how to add a Poll btw. 

What I can only take from Ayres words is, Jürgen has final say on 1 of 2,3,4 selected by a bunch of people.

Some posters are obsessed with this who has the final say.

Rodgers said he had the final choice same as what Klopp is saying.

Isn't more a case of Ayre gobbing off porkies and appeasing the powers at be?

Anyhoo I thought his days were numbered and he was riding off into the sunset on his Harley?  So why is he still negotiating possible transfers?

I don't think Jürgen has carte blanch with the FSG dollars but I would have thought he'd have much more influence than TPM, I would like to think Jürgen would have this as part of his contract,
Surely even FSG will note that the TC isn't quite working as it should apart of course from the dollars saved!!

It goes without saying the TC obviously still has a say, it's how much of a say that concerns me?

YNWA

Who has the final say was never a problem. Brendan had the final say but if your final say is on a choice between Balotelli and Eto'o then things are always going to go wrong.

Who has the final say was never a problem. Brendan had the final say but if your final say is on a choice between Balotelli and Eto'o then things are always going to go wrong.

And that is the issue. When Brendan was on Goals on Sunday last season he basically gave away how Alberto Moreno came to this club. He said that he needed a left back, there were 4 choices he was given. None of those were players he wanted but he had to take one because we couldn't go without one.

The Ian Ayre gets involved, we pay over the odds and before you know it 'Brendan spent millions on crap players'.

People who think it's "never been an issue" are usually the same posters who say "Rodgers spunked 300 million quid" and that the team are "turds". I've given up trying to make any sense of their stance, but from my point of view I think we have real issues which show no sign of abating.

How on earth can we sensibly judge a manager if we don't properly back him in the transfer market? Yes I know that no manager gets every player he wants, but Jürgen is hardly asking for Messi and Ronaldo when he asks for Goetze and Zielinski, these are players which ought to be 100% within our budget and still it looks like we won't get them.

I mentioned in another thread how it seems odd that when the committee picks a player out (Firmino for example) the fee and wages tend to be agreed quickly. When the manager picks players though (Willian for example under Rodgers, Goetze and Zielinski under Jürgen) there doesn't appear to be the same urgency.

What has to happen for people to realise the total bollocks we're being served up here? Does Jürgen have to throw his hands up and leave? Do we have to finish 6th in the league and win bugger all? Both even?

The system as we employ it is doomed to fail, WHOEVER is the manager.

Isn't more a case of Ayre gobbing off porkies and appeasing the powers at be?

Anyhoo I thought his days were numbered and he was riding off into the sunset on his Harley? 

End of the coming season he fucks off!!

Colours to the mast BBB?

Ha ha... yes mate; an colourful turn of phrase maybe but in reality I just wanted to spark debate and for those bold enough to offer opinion to do just that: nothing more. It's not a trick question or anything.

If folk are afraid to commit because "it might come back to haunt" them; fair enough. 

None of the above, Jurgens not in charge because others come before him. The provided system, tried and tested is flawed IMHO.

So... I can put you down for option "2:" then? 

I, like you, hope Jürgen gets first rattle at picking players; that Ayre is telling porkies and that Jürgen can indeed "see a marked difference" in Company policy.

I think the real problem is the restrictive policies and guidelines that FSG have imposed on our transfers.

However the relationship between Brendan and the TC obviously broke down completely towards the end, while I think for the moment Jürgen is happy to work with the committee, whether that will continue beyond the honeymoon phase is another question.

I think as long as the team is getting results and is reasonably successful things will continue in a harmonious vein, it's if or when we hit a sticky patch on the field that things may turn a little uglier. Only then will any frustrations over lost opportunities or limited options boil over.

Maybe Jürgen is content with young talented prospects to an extent that Brendan never was and things will go better?

In answer to the original question I think the responsibility for all our transfers rests with Jürgen until we hear or see any genuine signs that there is any reason to think otherwise. One group working in perfect harmony ...for the moment. Number 2 for me.           

End of the coming season he fucks off!!

Can't come quick enough, in fact he should F**k off now, any involvement from him can't be for the best interests of LFC, he can't give 100% commitment if his mind is elsewhere,
We need ppl at the club committed to the cause, he's done his time here so thanks for your services Ian 'Brum brum '

YNWA

Well I'd like to think it's 1 , my suspicion is it's no 2 , but the bigger poser for me is given that I think Jürgen is world class , would he really let a bunch of no mark individuals foist players onto him that he doesn't want / rate , I think you'll only have a better idea at the end of the window , if we have our usual smattering of £5.00 doughnuts them I think alarm bells might ring .
If the Boss is as good as I think / hope then I don't think he will take players he doesn't want , only time will tell .

I think the real problem is the restrictive policies and guidelines that FSG have imposed on our transfers.

However the relationship between Brendan and the TC obviously broke down completely towards the end, while I think for the moment Jürgen is happy to work with the committee, whether that will continue beyond the honeymoon phase is another question.

I think as long as the team is getting results and is reasonably successful things will continue in a harmonious vein, it's if or when we hit a sticky patch on the field that things may turn a little uglier. Only then will any frustrations over lost opportunities or limited options boil over.

Maybe Jürgen is content with young talented prospects to an extent that Brendan never was and things will go better?

In answer to the original question I think the responsibility for all our transfers rests with Jürgen until we hear or see any genuine signs that there is any reason to think otherwise. One group working in perfect harmony ...for the moment. Number 2 for me.           

Think your quite correct s@int in respect of restrictive policies, but when does that honeymoon period end?
For me it should already have done at the seasons end,
It's Jürgen's beef now, he's had 7 months to assess what is required, FSG should not have restrictive policies in what is in effect the first window in which Jürgen will be active, that's not to say he should have carte blanche,
But what it should do is allow Jürgen to bring in who he believes will enhance what he has already,

for me the TC in its current guise should take a step back and not question who Jürgen wants, we all want a harmonious backroom team and for off field business to run smoothly, at this juncture tho FSG, the TC, and we fans should dance to Jürgen's tune.

YNWA

It's only fair to add Jurgens take on who decides. 

The headline would have you believe he has the final say only but his actual quote in the interview I have bolded.

So is Jürgen blagging us to be seen as billy big bollocks or is Ayre? 

I'd go with Ayre personally and as AZ has said many times, if the fuckwits at FSG think they can hoodwink Jürgen on his targets, he'll walk.  He is not the man to throw spanners in his work and they/we need him far more than he needs us/them.

Jürgen Klopp: 'I will have final word on transfers'

By Darren Plant, Reporter
Filed: Friday, October 9, 2015 at 10:31 UK
Last Updated: Friday, October 9, 2015 at 11:44 UK

New Liverpool manager Jürgen Klopp has insisted that he has no issues with the current transfer policy at the Merseyside giants.

Klopp has signed a three-year deal to replace Brendan Rodgers, who was removed from his position on Sunday after Liverpool's inconsistent start to the season on both the domestic and European scene.

Some reports have suggested that Rodgers did not always have the final decision when it came to new signings, but Klopp has revealed that he is in a position to have the "first and last word" on potential incomings and outgoings at Anfield.

The 48-year-old told reporters: "It's not a problem for me. It's enough for me that I have the first and the last word, and in the middle of these two words, we can discuss everything.


"It shouldn't be a problem because we will be discussing players of the highest level. I am not a genius, I don't know more than the rest of the world. I need other people to get the perfect information.

"When we have this, we will sign a player or sell a player. It is really easy to handle this."

Klopp's first game in charge of Liverpool will be against Tottenham Hotspur at White Hart Lane on October 17.

It's only fair to add Jurgens take on who decides. 

The headline would have you believe he has the final say only but his actual quote in the interview I have bolded.

So is Jürgen blagging us to be seen as billy big bollocks or is Ayre? 

I'd go with Ayre personally and as AZ has said many times, if the fuckwits at FSG think they can hoodwink Jürgen on his targets, he'll walk.  He is not the man to throw spanners in his work and they/we need him far more than he needs us/them.

Jürgen Klopp: 'I will have final word on transfers'

By Darren Plant, Reporter
Filed: Friday, October 9, 2015 at 10:31 UK
Last Updated: Friday, October 9, 2015 at 11:44 UK

New Liverpool manager Jürgen Klopp has insisted that he has no issues with the current transfer policy at the Merseyside giants.

Klopp has signed a three-year deal to replace Brendan Rodgers, who was removed from his position on Sunday after Liverpool's inconsistent start to the season on both the domestic and European scene.

Some reports have suggested that Rodgers did not always have the final decision when it came to new signings, but Klopp has revealed that he is in a position to have the "first and last word" on potential incomings and outgoings at Anfield.

The 48-year-old told reporters: "It's not a problem for me. It's enough for me that I have the first and the last word, and in the middle of these two words, we can discuss everything.


"It shouldn't be a problem because we will be discussing players of the highest level. I am not a genius, I don't know more than the rest of the world. I need other people to get the perfect information.

"When we have this, we will sign a player or sell a player. It is really easy to handle this."

Klopp's first game in charge of Liverpool will be against Tottenham Hotspur at White Hart Lane on October 17.

if they do not give him what he wants he will walk no question about that. However they knew that when they hired him this is not a manager star struck by coming to manage Liverpool they will support him because he knows what he wants and he isn't going to be silly with his demands.

if they do not give him what he wants he will walk no question about that. However they knew that when they hired him this is not a manager star struck by coming to manage Liverpool they will support him because he knows what he wants and he isn't going to be silly with his demands.

Exactly mate.

Exactly mate.

If Jürgen walked then FSG can f***in walk too, this is the best chance for f***in decades to get back to somewhere near the glory days,
They have to get this right or they may as well sell up to the richest camel jockey east side of the nile!


YNWA

Don't think Klopp will make compromises on this. If he cannot buy players he wants the whole project wouldn't make any sense. I doubt he will take any sh*t from anyone regarding signings.

Don't think Klopp will make compromises on this. If he cannot buy players he wants the whole project wouldn't make any sense. I doubt he will take any sh*t from anyone regarding signings.

this will have been discussed and agreed before he came here so I don't expect any surprises this summer expect for the names we sign

this will have been discussed and agreed before he came here so I don't expect any surprises this summer expect for the names we sign

Think the bigger issue here with supporters in general they will think that if there are no BIG names then Klopp is not being backed...fact of the matter is he has his budget and will target what he think is the best players and where he wants to spend. The gaffer really does not have a history of buying superstars and I do not expect it will begin here at LFC.

I will stand by the idea that he calls all the shots and if we do not spend xxx amount on a player it is because Jürgen has decided said player is not worth it.

This is truly FSG's best chance to just push forward and Jürgen is the man to do it and as I have said, Debs has said and you said he will walk quicker than you could blink if he feels he is getting screwed over by ownership, of that I have zero doubt.

Again the lack of a big money signing or big name will cause some here to throw the toys out but I could care less about the names or money spent as our past history has shown some of our best players were relative unknowns...(Coutinho, Can, Origi) that were what would be considered cheap and some of our worst players (Carroll, Benteke, Balotelli) were some of our most expensive signings.

It's about the collective team with Jürgen not about the individuals.

Think the bigger issue here with supporters in general they will think that if there are no BIG names then Klopp is not being backed...fact of the matter is he has his budget and will target what he think is the best players and where he wants to spend. The gaffer really does not have a history of buying superstars and I do not expect it will begin here at LFC.

I will stand by the idea that he calls all the shots and if we do not spend xxx amount on a player it is because Jürgen has decided said player is not worth it.

This is truly FSG's best chance to just push forward and Jürgen is the man to do it and as I have said, Debs has said and you said he will walk quicker than you could blink if he feels he is getting screwed over by ownership, of that I have zero doubt.

Again the lack of a big money signing or big name will cause some here to throw the toys out but I could care less about the names or money spent as our past history has shown some of our best players were relative unknowns...(Coutinho, Can, Origi) that were what would be considered cheap and some of our worst players (Carroll, Benteke, Balotelli) were some of our most expensive signings.

It's about the collective team with Jürgen not about the individuals.

Couldn't agree more, but so long as it's the players Jürgen wants that do arrive and not any other options!!

YNWA

Couldn't agree more, but so long as it's the players Jürgen wants that do arrive and not any other options!!

YNWA

See there is the question...how do we know what players he wants when they arrive? He won't get them all right...there will be some misses.

Papers link us with Higuain for £40 million and we get an unknown from say France...is it because Jürgen wanted the Frenchman or is it a case of the ownership not willing to spend any money to back Jürgen? How on earth could we ever know?

Again I believe that Jürgen will do what he want's to do; just no so sure that what he wants to do in regards to bringing players in aligns with a segment of the supporters who look at transfers as more a FM game vs. reality.

If Jürgen is not being backed I suspect that he will just walk and then we will know the truth...if all is good and he signs an extention..etc..etc then we know all is well...other than that everything is tabloid speculation.

See there is the question...how do we know what players he wants when they arrive? He won't get them all right...there will be some misses.

Papers link us with Higuain for £40 million and we get an unknown from say France...is it because Jürgen wanted the Frenchman or is it a case of the ownership not willing to spend any money to back Jürgen? How on earth could we ever know?

Again I believe that Jürgen will do what he want's to do; just no so sure that what he wants to do in regards to bringing players in aligns with a segment of the supporters who look at transfers as more a FM game vs. reality.

If Jürgen is not being backed I suspect that he will just walk and then we will know the truth...if all is good and he signs an extention..etc..etc then we know all is well...other than that everything is tabloid speculation.

I think for now we need to trust that whoever does arrive are indeed Klopp's wants until we here something different, none of us are going to know 100% but, if Jürgen is a man of his word, and we have no reason to disbelieve him, we just need to go with the flow.

YNWA