They Go... Who Decides? (Big Jürgen Is Watching You)

A number of posts, through a number of threads, [regarding the autonomy Jürgen has over transfers/squad], got me thinking... this is a serious issue which has been at the core of many a debate and, worse still... the reason behind some major bust ups.

People have, it seems, changed their stance on 'who' exactly is ultimately responsible for transfers. Sometimes changing their opinion on a player, by player, basis: dependant on the current form of that player, often leading to friction as they do.

Most recently the groundswell of opinion appears to be that, in fact, Jürgen has 'full control'; that 'things will change' and we will undoubtedly 'see a marked difference in the transfer market'.

I like every other Red (no doubt) would love such assertions to be true but given Ian Ayre's take on things [Transfer Committee]: what, once and for all do you believe to be true? 

1: Is Jürgen really in control?

2: Will Jürgen merely (as Ayre infers) just be following the tried and tested? Or..

3: Will we see the status quo remain (amongst posters, that is) wherein, the boss will get kudos for transfers which work while the Transfer Committee will be blamed for any flops? [for a while anyhow]

Personally speaking; I believe the difference will lie in if Jürgen has been given "first call" (not just last) but...

... Without further ado - nail your colours to the mast troops - 1:, 2: or 3: ?

 
* N.B. For what it's worth and as it might help you decide, here's Ian Ayre's take:

Jürgen Klopp has “final say” despite Liverpool’s transfer committee approach – Ian Ayre

Ayre, speaking at the Web Summit in Dublin this week, said that Klopp “has the final say” on all Liverpool transfers – a policy that continues from Brendan Rodgers‘ reign.

“There’s only one person that has the final say over what players [we sign] at Liverpool Football Club and that’s Jürgen Klopp right now,” he insisted.

"That’s always been the case for as long as I’ve been here"...

... "the manager will say we are looking for somebody in this position and a bunch of people – a mix of traditional scouts and more recently analytical and digital-based information – bring all of that together as was always the case,” he said.

“Then we look at two, three, four players, the best players for that position, show them to the manager and the manager can go watch or have the scouts go watch those players and narrow it down.

“At that point I’ll become more involved and start talking to clubs, agents, players on a negotiations basis and then the manager will choose.”


http://www.thisisanfield.com/2015/11/Jürgen-klopp-has-final-say-despite-liverpools-transfer-committee-approach-ian-ayre/

** I don't how to add a Poll btw. 

What I can only take from Ayres words is, Jürgen has final say on 1 of 2,3,4 selected by a bunch of people.

Some posters are obsessed with this who has the final say.

Rodgers said he had the final choice same as what Klopp is saying.

Isn't more a case of Ayre gobbing off porkies and appeasing the powers at be?

Anyhoo I thought his days were numbered and he was riding off into the sunset on his Harley?  So why is he still negotiating possible transfers?

I don't think Jürgen has carte blanch with the FSG dollars but I would have thought he'd have much more influence than TPM, I would like to think Jürgen would have this as part of his contract,
Surely even FSG will note that the TC isn't quite working as it should apart of course from the dollars saved!!

It goes without saying the TC obviously still has a say, it's how much of a say that concerns me?

YNWA

Who has the final say was never a problem. Brendan had the final say but if your final say is on a choice between Balotelli and Eto'o then things are always going to go wrong.

Who has the final say was never a problem. Brendan had the final say but if your final say is on a choice between Balotelli and Eto'o then things are always going to go wrong.

And that is the issue. When Brendan was on Goals on Sunday last season he basically gave away how Alberto Moreno came to this club. He said that he needed a left back, there were 4 choices he was given. None of those were players he wanted but he had to take one because we couldn't go without one.

The Ian Ayre gets involved, we pay over the odds and before you know it 'Brendan spent millions on crap players'.

People who think it's "never been an issue" are usually the same posters who say "Rodgers spunked 300 million quid" and that the team are "turds". I've given up trying to make any sense of their stance, but from my point of view I think we have real issues which show no sign of abating.

How on earth can we sensibly judge a manager if we don't properly back him in the transfer market? Yes I know that no manager gets every player he wants, but Jürgen is hardly asking for Messi and Ronaldo when he asks for Goetze and Zielinski, these are players which ought to be 100% within our budget and still it looks like we won't get them.

I mentioned in another thread how it seems odd that when the committee picks a player out (Firmino for example) the fee and wages tend to be agreed quickly. When the manager picks players though (Willian for example under Rodgers, Goetze and Zielinski under Jürgen) there doesn't appear to be the same urgency.

What has to happen for people to realise the total bollocks we're being served up here? Does Jürgen have to throw his hands up and leave? Do we have to finish 6th in the league and win bugger all? Both even?

The system as we employ it is doomed to fail, WHOEVER is the manager.

Isn't more a case of Ayre gobbing off porkies and appeasing the powers at be?

Anyhoo I thought his days were numbered and he was riding off into the sunset on his Harley? 

End of the coming season he fucks off!!

Colours to the mast BBB?

Ha ha... yes mate; an colourful turn of phrase maybe but in reality I just wanted to spark debate and for those bold enough to offer opinion to do just that: nothing more. It's not a trick question or anything.

If folk are afraid to commit because "it might come back to haunt" them; fair enough. 

None of the above, Jurgens not in charge because others come before him. The provided system, tried and tested is flawed IMHO.

So... I can put you down for option "2:" then? 

I, like you, hope Jürgen gets first rattle at picking players; that Ayre is telling porkies and that Jürgen can indeed "see a marked difference" in Company policy.

I think the real problem is the restrictive policies and guidelines that FSG have imposed on our transfers.

However the relationship between Brendan and the TC obviously broke down completely towards the end, while I think for the moment Jürgen is happy to work with the committee, whether that will continue beyond the honeymoon phase is another question.

I think as long as the team is getting results and is reasonably successful things will continue in a harmonious vein, it's if or when we hit a sticky patch on the field that things may turn a little uglier. Only then will any frustrations over lost opportunities or limited options boil over.

Maybe Jürgen is content with young talented prospects to an extent that Brendan never was and things will go better?

In answer to the original question I think the responsibility for all our transfers rests with Jürgen until we hear or see any genuine signs that there is any reason to think otherwise. One group working in perfect harmony ...for the moment. Number 2 for me.           

End of the coming season he fucks off!!

Can't come quick enough, in fact he should F**k off now, any involvement from him can't be for the best interests of LFC, he can't give 100% commitment if his mind is elsewhere,
We need ppl at the club committed to the cause, he's done his time here so thanks for your services Ian 'Brum brum '

YNWA

Well I'd like to think it's 1 , my suspicion is it's no 2 , but the bigger poser for me is given that I think Jürgen is world class , would he really let a bunch of no mark individuals foist players onto him that he doesn't want / rate , I think you'll only have a better idea at the end of the window , if we have our usual smattering of £5.00 doughnuts them I think alarm bells might ring .
If the Boss is as good as I think / hope then I don't think he will take players he doesn't want , only time will tell .

I think the real problem is the restrictive policies and guidelines that FSG have imposed on our transfers.

However the relationship between Brendan and the TC obviously broke down completely towards the end, while I think for the moment Jürgen is happy to work with the committee, whether that will continue beyond the honeymoon phase is another question.

I think as long as the team is getting results and is reasonably successful things will continue in a harmonious vein, it's if or when we hit a sticky patch on the field that things may turn a little uglier. Only then will any frustrations over lost opportunities or limited options boil over.

Maybe Jürgen is content with young talented prospects to an extent that Brendan never was and things will go better?

In answer to the original question I think the responsibility for all our transfers rests with Jürgen until we hear or see any genuine signs that there is any reason to think otherwise. One group working in perfect harmony ...for the moment. Number 2 for me.           

Think your quite correct s@int in respect of restrictive policies, but when does that honeymoon period end?
For me it should already have done at the seasons end,
It's Jürgen's beef now, he's had 7 months to assess what is required, FSG should not have restrictive policies in what is in effect the first window in which Jürgen will be active, that's not to say he should have carte blanche,
But what it should do is allow Jürgen to bring in who he believes will enhance what he has already,

for me the TC in its current guise should take a step back and not question who Jürgen wants, we all want a harmonious backroom team and for off field business to run smoothly, at this juncture tho FSG, the TC, and we fans should dance to Jürgen's tune.

YNWA

It's only fair to add Jurgens take on who decides. 

The headline would have you believe he has the final say only but his actual quote in the interview I have bolded.

So is Jürgen blagging us to be seen as billy big bollocks or is Ayre? 

I'd go with Ayre personally and as AZ has said many times, if the fuckwits at FSG think they can hoodwink Jürgen on his targets, he'll walk.  He is not the man to throw spanners in his work and they/we need him far more than he needs us/them.

Jürgen Klopp: 'I will have final word on transfers'

By Darren Plant, Reporter
Filed: Friday, October 9, 2015 at 10:31 UK
Last Updated: Friday, October 9, 2015 at 11:44 UK

New Liverpool manager Jürgen Klopp has insisted that he has no issues with the current transfer policy at the Merseyside giants.

Klopp has signed a three-year deal to replace Brendan Rodgers, who was removed from his position on Sunday after Liverpool's inconsistent start to the season on both the domestic and European scene.

Some reports have suggested that Rodgers did not always have the final decision when it came to new signings, but Klopp has revealed that he is in a position to have the "first and last word" on potential incomings and outgoings at Anfield.

The 48-year-old told reporters: "It's not a problem for me. It's enough for me that I have the first and the last word, and in the middle of these two words, we can discuss everything.


"It shouldn't be a problem because we will be discussing players of the highest level. I am not a genius, I don't know more than the rest of the world. I need other people to get the perfect information.

"When we have this, we will sign a player or sell a player. It is really easy to handle this."

Klopp's first game in charge of Liverpool will be against Tottenham Hotspur at White Hart Lane on October 17.

It's only fair to add Jurgens take on who decides. 

The headline would have you believe he has the final say only but his actual quote in the interview I have bolded.

So is Jürgen blagging us to be seen as billy big bollocks or is Ayre? 

I'd go with Ayre personally and as AZ has said many times, if the fuckwits at FSG think they can hoodwink Jürgen on his targets, he'll walk.  He is not the man to throw spanners in his work and they/we need him far more than he needs us/them.

Jürgen Klopp: 'I will have final word on transfers'

By Darren Plant, Reporter
Filed: Friday, October 9, 2015 at 10:31 UK
Last Updated: Friday, October 9, 2015 at 11:44 UK

New Liverpool manager Jürgen Klopp has insisted that he has no issues with the current transfer policy at the Merseyside giants.

Klopp has signed a three-year deal to replace Brendan Rodgers, who was removed from his position on Sunday after Liverpool's inconsistent start to the season on both the domestic and European scene.

Some reports have suggested that Rodgers did not always have the final decision when it came to new signings, but Klopp has revealed that he is in a position to have the "first and last word" on potential incomings and outgoings at Anfield.

The 48-year-old told reporters: "It's not a problem for me. It's enough for me that I have the first and the last word, and in the middle of these two words, we can discuss everything.


"It shouldn't be a problem because we will be discussing players of the highest level. I am not a genius, I don't know more than the rest of the world. I need other people to get the perfect information.

"When we have this, we will sign a player or sell a player. It is really easy to handle this."

Klopp's first game in charge of Liverpool will be against Tottenham Hotspur at White Hart Lane on October 17.

if they do not give him what he wants he will walk no question about that. However they knew that when they hired him this is not a manager star struck by coming to manage Liverpool they will support him because he knows what he wants and he isn't going to be silly with his demands.

if they do not give him what he wants he will walk no question about that. However they knew that when they hired him this is not a manager star struck by coming to manage Liverpool they will support him because he knows what he wants and he isn't going to be silly with his demands.

Exactly mate.

Exactly mate.

If Jürgen walked then FSG can f***in walk too, this is the best chance for f***in decades to get back to somewhere near the glory days,
They have to get this right or they may as well sell up to the richest camel jockey east side of the nile!


YNWA

Don't think Klopp will make compromises on this. If he cannot buy players he wants the whole project wouldn't make any sense. I doubt he will take any sh*t from anyone regarding signings.

Don't think Klopp will make compromises on this. If he cannot buy players he wants the whole project wouldn't make any sense. I doubt he will take any sh*t from anyone regarding signings.

this will have been discussed and agreed before he came here so I don't expect any surprises this summer expect for the names we sign

this will have been discussed and agreed before he came here so I don't expect any surprises this summer expect for the names we sign

Think the bigger issue here with supporters in general they will think that if there are no BIG names then Klopp is not being backed...fact of the matter is he has his budget and will target what he think is the best players and where he wants to spend. The gaffer really does not have a history of buying superstars and I do not expect it will begin here at LFC.

I will stand by the idea that he calls all the shots and if we do not spend xxx amount on a player it is because Jürgen has decided said player is not worth it.

This is truly FSG's best chance to just push forward and Jürgen is the man to do it and as I have said, Debs has said and you said he will walk quicker than you could blink if he feels he is getting screwed over by ownership, of that I have zero doubt.

Again the lack of a big money signing or big name will cause some here to throw the toys out but I could care less about the names or money spent as our past history has shown some of our best players were relative unknowns...(Coutinho, Can, Origi) that were what would be considered cheap and some of our worst players (Carroll, Benteke, Balotelli) were some of our most expensive signings.

It's about the collective team with Jürgen not about the individuals.

Think the bigger issue here with supporters in general they will think that if there are no BIG names then Klopp is not being backed...fact of the matter is he has his budget and will target what he think is the best players and where he wants to spend. The gaffer really does not have a history of buying superstars and I do not expect it will begin here at LFC.

I will stand by the idea that he calls all the shots and if we do not spend xxx amount on a player it is because Jürgen has decided said player is not worth it.

This is truly FSG's best chance to just push forward and Jürgen is the man to do it and as I have said, Debs has said and you said he will walk quicker than you could blink if he feels he is getting screwed over by ownership, of that I have zero doubt.

Again the lack of a big money signing or big name will cause some here to throw the toys out but I could care less about the names or money spent as our past history has shown some of our best players were relative unknowns...(Coutinho, Can, Origi) that were what would be considered cheap and some of our worst players (Carroll, Benteke, Balotelli) were some of our most expensive signings.

It's about the collective team with Jürgen not about the individuals.

Couldn't agree more, but so long as it's the players Jürgen wants that do arrive and not any other options!!

YNWA

Couldn't agree more, but so long as it's the players Jürgen wants that do arrive and not any other options!!

YNWA

See there is the question...how do we know what players he wants when they arrive? He won't get them all right...there will be some misses.

Papers link us with Higuain for £40 million and we get an unknown from say France...is it because Jürgen wanted the Frenchman or is it a case of the ownership not willing to spend any money to back Jürgen? How on earth could we ever know?

Again I believe that Jürgen will do what he want's to do; just no so sure that what he wants to do in regards to bringing players in aligns with a segment of the supporters who look at transfers as more a FM game vs. reality.

If Jürgen is not being backed I suspect that he will just walk and then we will know the truth...if all is good and he signs an extention..etc..etc then we know all is well...other than that everything is tabloid speculation.

See there is the question...how do we know what players he wants when they arrive? He won't get them all right...there will be some misses.

Papers link us with Higuain for £40 million and we get an unknown from say France...is it because Jürgen wanted the Frenchman or is it a case of the ownership not willing to spend any money to back Jürgen? How on earth could we ever know?

Again I believe that Jürgen will do what he want's to do; just no so sure that what he wants to do in regards to bringing players in aligns with a segment of the supporters who look at transfers as more a FM game vs. reality.

If Jürgen is not being backed I suspect that he will just walk and then we will know the truth...if all is good and he signs an extention..etc..etc then we know all is well...other than that everything is tabloid speculation.

I think for now we need to trust that whoever does arrive are indeed Klopp's wants until we here something different, none of us are going to know 100% but, if Jürgen is a man of his word, and we have no reason to disbelieve him, we just need to go with the flow.

YNWA

Whose removed my post and why ?

Again the lack of a big money signing or big name will cause some here to throw the toys out

That's quite possible for "some" I suppose A-Zed but for me (like you) I couldn't give a flying F**k about money spent... not only 'cause we have sh*t-loads of it but at the end of the day - the proof of the pudding is always in the eating. I've been round this game too long to ever be fooled into believing otherwise. 

So is Jürgen blagging us to be seen as billy big bollocks or is Ayre?

The first I've seen that; thanks for sharing. Personally I'd believe what Jürgen says alright and without cherry-picking, what I choose to believe, either.   
 

Judging by who wd have signed so far it seems Jürgen's hands are definitely behind the wheel.

Whose removed my post and why ?

Re-post it mate, see what occurs?

YNWA

Klopp should not be choosing from a shortlist, he short be making his own shortlist.

Klopp should not be choosing from a shortlist, he short be making his own shortlist.

And do you think that Matip & Karius were on Jürgen's list or the clubs list?

I don't think it's that black and white. Loris Karius. Are we supposed to believe Liverpools scouts off their own back started scouting keepers in the Bundesliga?

I think the pattern has been at the outset LFC managers have a big input and then (when they've bought badly) gradually over time get reduced to picking from options.

And do you think that Matip & Karius were on Jürgen's list or the clubs list?

I don't know about Matip but surely our chief scout, Barry Hunter, would have definitely had some prior knowledge of Karius and/or even input to his earlier transfer to City. 

In a similar vein - Do you think Caulker was on Jürgen's list or the Club's list?

 

I don't know about Matip but surely our chief scout, Barry Hunter, would have definitely had some prior knowledge of Karius and/or even input to his earlier transfer to City. 

In a similar vein - Do you think Caulker was on Jürgen's list or the Club's list?

 

I think Jürgen asked those at the club already..can you find me a CB to loan in that knows the league.

I would imagine both Hunter (from the city recruitment) and Jugen (from playing against) were on the same page when it came to Karius.

This is a good question.

From what i understand, at Dortmund Klopp didnt sign players anyways, there was also a 'committee' and Michal Zorc did all the transfer dealings (i could be wrong).

This could also explain why we got Jürgen too. He has experience working win this way.

Can the arrival of Klopp trigger an improvement in Liverpool's transfer dealings? Time will tell. One thing is for sure, history suggests the German is a dab hand both at spotting players and then developing them.

Though rarely involved in negotiations or financial considerations – Hans-Joachim Watzke and Michael Zorc took care of that – Klopp was instrumental in identifying players that could come in and fit his system.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-Jürgen-klopps-transfer-10236189

This doesnt sound too far off the situation brendan had. Who knows only time will tell i guess.

I don't think it's that black and white. Loris Karius. Are we supposed to believe Liverpools scouts off their own back started scouting keepers in the Bundesliga?

Fair point. If brendan was still here we would have got the burnley keeper 

I would imagine both Hunter (from the city recruitment) and Jugen (from playing against) were on the same page when it came to Karius.

So he was (possibly) on the Club's list. Fair enough. I guess then It's also possible Hunter also knew about Matip. Get's complicated; doesn't it?   

Fair point. If brendan was still here we would have got the burnley keeper

That Heaton fella is alright. Try again. 

This is a good question.

From what i understand, at Dortmund Klopp didnt sign players anyways, there was also a 'committee' and Michal Zorc did all the transfer dealings (i could be wrong).

This could also explain why we got Jürgen too. He has experience working win this way.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-Jürgen-klopps-transfer-10236189

This doesnt sound too far off the situation brendan had. Who knows only time will tell i guess.

I don't think you understand our committee set up mate.  At Dortmund it was pretty simple, Jürgen, his brains and eyes did the scouting, Zorc did the negotiating after Watzke decided on the maximum price.

Here we have stats guys who after the scouting reports come in run algorithms, on a software programme they designed, that also decides on a maximum price based on how well they "match" the requirements of the programme.  If the player Jürgen wants comes out with a high points total, the negotiations start.

It's this part of the "committee" Jürgen has to overcome, the stats guys.  Not that I have a problem with stats per se, they play a big part in all recruitment processes, our problem previously is that they override everything.

There's an article or an interview or something in the Mane thread, we were supposed to sign him before he went to Southampton, everything agreed, personal terms etc till the computer said no.  His stats didn't come up to scratch so he was rejected.  Now we're looking at spending over £30m to get him.

They don't need to scrap it completely but have more trust in Jürgen and his teams appraisals of the players they believe they need, even if the computer says no.

but when does that honeymoon period end?

As soon as Jürgen starts making comments such as "We need quality not quantity" or "I wanted a sofa and they bought me a lampshade" we will know the honeymoon is over mate.

Rodgers said he had the final choice same as what Klopp is saying.

Rodgers claimed he had not had final say. I believe him because it would be highly unlikely, for example, to buy a young player for  20 mil, play him out of position almost all time and than loan him after couple of months in a situation when you basically don't have options on the wing (Markovic). He probably didn't want a player.

Liverpool transfer committee had final say on signings NOT me, confirms Brendan Rodgers

The Northern Irishman also revealed he would have to sign someone from a list of players, if the additions he wanted were not available.

Brendan Rodgers has admitted he did NOT have the final say on transfers at Liverpool.

During the Northern Irishman's three-year spell on Merseyside, the Reds spent a staggering £292m on players - with a further £200m banked from outgoings.

The club's infamous transfer committee ran the rule over all dealings at Anfield, and remains in place under Jürgen Klopp.

And for the first time, Rodgers has opened up on what actually goes on - and revealed the final decision was not his.

"It was a group decision. It was certainly not something I would have the sole or final say on," he told Sky Sports' Goals on Sunday.

"The model of the club is slightly different. The owners have a way of working, where they want to bring in young players and see them develop.

"You look at the players who have come in and they are 24 and below, and the ones who were above that were free transfers.

"As manager, you will always be the figurehead of the club but there is a recruitment team in place who will look to bring the players in."

Rodgers also went on to explain how the club formed their shortlist of players - and what would happen if they didn't get their top target.

He said: "You want a player in and there's a list of players, but if the player you want isn't on that list, you have to take someone.

"You can't have no players. If you want a left-back, but the one you want isn't available, then there is a list of three or four.

"You then have to take the best in that group. It is the model."

Also, if TC use fuc*in software to choose which player is good enough to play for us, I only wonder which computer on the world would classified Balotelli as a good signing.

Whichever system you're using for identifying players, spending 292 million quid in four seasons transfer windows while bringing in 200 million isn't really backing the manager. 23 million quid NET spend a season is hardly going for it in a big way.

I'm constantly surprised that the policy of the owners in bringing in young players, giving the transfer committee so much power etc doesn't have more fans up in arms. It seems we just accept it, cross our fingers that the new manager can unearth a few gems and get in with it. Then if any of us say the owners are not giving him a chance, people rare up up on us and say WE'RE not backing the manager. It's a source of constant amazement to me, then the same people accuse me of "dumbing down expectations". Very confusing.

Whichever system you're using for identifying players, spending 292 million quid in four seasons transfer windows while bringing in 200 million isn't really backing the manager. 23 million quid NET spend a season is hardly going for it in a big way.

I'm constantly surprised that the policy of the owners in bringing in young players, giving the transfer committee so much power etc doesn't have more fans up in arms. It seems we just accept it, cross our fingers that the new manager can unearth a few gems and get in with it. Then if any of us say the owners are not giving him a chance, people rare up up on us and say WE'RE not backing the manager. It's a source of constant amazement to me, then the same people accuse me of "dumbing down expectations". Very confusing.

To be fair Mick we are averging 32.6 a season not that the extra 10 million makes that big of a difference

#   Net Spend                 last 5 Years   Purchased Gross   Sold   Net   Per Season
                    
1   Manchester City   £472,800,000   £159,300,000   £313,500,000   £62,700,000
2   Manchester United   £432,700,000   £144,400,000   £288,300,000   £57,660,000
4   Chelsea   £475,959,000   £277,250,000   £198,709,000   £39,741,800
3   Liverpool   £354,100,000   £190,770,000   £163,330,000   £32,666,000
5   Arsenal   £258,625,000   £154,600,000   £104,025,000   £20,805,000

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premier-league-last-five-seasons/transfer-league-tables/premier-league-table-last-five-seasons

Spurs are -£10 million a season for the past 5 years.




As far as wages go for this past season we are 5th.

NO#   CLUB     2013-14    2014-15    2015-16
3   Chelsea   £190m   £192.7m   £215.6m
1   Manchester United   £187m   £215.8m   £203 m
2   Manchester City   £216m   £205m   £193.8m
4   Arsenal   £166.4m   £180.4m   £192m
5   Liverpool   £140m   £144m   £152m
6   Tottenham    £112m   £100.4m   £110.5m

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/english-premier-league-wage-bills-club-by-club/

We have teams paying less wages and spending less in transfers but finished above us in the league...this is the major issue to me more than anything as it shows financial capability but poor management from top to bottom of the resources available.

If everything was about money and that is all it was then I would expect us to be right around 4th/5th every year instead we are finishing 6, 8, 7, 2, 6, 8th.   Of course its not all about money the teams finishing above us each year, Spurs especially are doing so and not spending anything near where what we do.

Lot's of waste going on...in part to the owners being naive, part to the TC and the main part I believe is a lack of a crystal clear focus on what we are all about; I am really hoping that Jürgen is here to give this club the focus it needs and the other parties (ownership, management, supporters) all just get out of his way and let him do his thing.   

Good post AZ. That said if I'm reading your NET spend numbers correct, that's over the last five seasons whereas I'm talking about over that last four.

In wages we are 50 million quid a season (at least) behind the biggest spenders. That's ten blokes on 100K a week, in other words quite a f****** lot.

Also AZ another point from your excellent post, on Spurs. They've stumbled upon an absolutely top striker who has appeared from nowhere from their youth ranks which really helps. Not quite a Steven Gerrard moment, but it is an absolutely huge bonus and as such I'd expect them to outperform any spending figures, such things really help in a big way. Of course the signing of Deli Ali for 5 million quid has had a similar effect (and of course it's worth remembering he was another player who was a managers pick at Liverpool but that we missed out on through low balling).

Leicester too will blow cash spend versus performance charts out of the water. But Mahrez, Cante and Vardy are ensuring that is the case. By and large though, if you are going to compete at the top f the league for a sustained period you have to compete at the top of the league in transfers and wages.

My contention has always been that if funds ARE limited (which it appears they are) why bother wasting money buying players the manager doesn't want? Why not put the manager fully in the picture as to what our budget is overall in terms of fees and wages, then let HIM decide where he allocates the funds? By all means let Ayre do the negotiating with the selling club, but it should be THE MANAGER who either pulls the plug or goes ahead with the deal.

Suarez and Sterling recouped over £100m

Two players, the spend would never have been that big without those sales.

Rodgers claimed he had not had final say.

After he had been sacked.

I suppose the transfer committee must have picked the weakest captain we've had in 50 years too.

Balotelli for Suárez though. Ha ha.

I'd love to have seen the list where Balotelli was top choice.

After he had been sacked.

I suppose the transfer committee must have picked the weakest captain we've had in 50 years too.

Balotelli for Suárez though. Ha ha.

I'd love to have seen the list where Balotelli was top choice.

I didn't expect from Rodgers to tell TC transfers are sh*t when he is still in the job. I also believe that he would rather keep Suarez  than sign any other striker in the world. TC didn't picked captain, I agree, but also didn't coach the team when we played superb football 2013/2014. I just don't think Rodgers is man to blame for every bad transfer during his tenure. He fuc*ed up many times, but I don't think all transfers are his fault.

"You look at the players who have come in and they are 24 and below, and the ones who were above that were free transfers.

"As manager, you will always be the figurehead of the club but there is a recruitment team in place who will look to bring the players in."

This is interesting. And from the looks of it. Kinda true.

Suarez and Sterling recouped over £100m

Two players, the spend would never have been that big without those sales.

It's net spend Daz...we sold £163M worth of players...United sold £158M and Chelsea sold £198M it's all relative when we are talking net of sales.

If you are looking at a real contrast Spurs over a 5 year period has a -£10 million/season net spend £250M bought £308M sold and they still finish higher than we do almost every year save 1; that is where the real issue is to me...not so much how much we are spending it's how we have spent it.

Hell even Arsenal have a lower net spend then we do and they finish above us every year.

Also AZ another point from your excellent post, on Spurs. They've stumbled upon an absolutely top striker who has appeared from nowhere from their youth ranks which really helps. Not quite a Steven Gerrard moment, but it is an absolutely huge bonus and as such I'd expect them to outperform any spending figures, such things really help in a big way. Of course the signing of Deli Ali for 5 million quid has had a similar effect (and of course it's worth remembering he was another player who was a managers pick at Liverpool but that we missed out on through low balling).

Leicester too will blow cash spend versus performance charts out of the water. But Mahrez, Cante and Vardy are ensuring that is the case. By and large though, if you are going to compete at the top f the league for a sustained period you have to compete at the top of the league in transfers and wages.

My contention has always been that if funds ARE limited (which it appears they are) why bother wasting money buying players the manager doesn't want? Why not put the manager fully in the picture as to what our budget is overall in terms of fees and wages, then let HIM decide where he allocates the funds? By all means let Ayre do the negotiating with the selling club, but it should be THE MANAGER who either pulls the plug or goes ahead with the deal.

Just shows me more than anything how inefficient we have been I am hoping Jürgen and his brain can sort this out a bit.

1: Is Jürgen really in control?

Man I wish

2: Will Jürgen merely (as Ayre infers) just be following the tried and tested? Or..

probably....

3: Will we see the status quo remain (amongst posters, that is) wherein, the boss will get kudos for transfers which work while the Transfer Committee will be blamed for any flops? [for a while anyhow]

This is the correct answer unfortunately.

It would have to be No2 I'm afraid. Jürgen will state which positions he needs filled, a list will be drawn up, and Jürgen will be given his choice ( add long as the price its right). Jürgen will then work his magic to turn them into would beaters ( hopefully!).

I have a feeling Rodgers thought he could make Balotelli into Suarez its the only explanation that makes any sense to sign a complete dud of a player and a waste of talent another brainless oaf.
I am relaxed about spending now because as we all new we could have done so much better with the money we have spent and Leicester have proved its not all about how much a player is worth its about how hungry they are for success.

After he had been sacked.

I suppose the transfer committee must have picked the weakest captain we've had in 50 years too.

I have a feeling Rodgers thought he could make Balotelli into Suarez its the only explanation that makes any sense to sign a complete dud of a player and a waste of talent another brainless oaf.
I am relaxed about spending now because as we all new we could have done so much better with the money we have spent and Leicester have proved its not all about how much a player is worth its about how hungry they are for success.

But again Brendan is basically on record as saying he didn't want Mario. Gerrard in his book talks of a chat they both had which they both voiced concerns but that we were out of options.

If you are looking at a real contrast Spurs over a 5 year period has a -£10 million/season net spend £250M bought £308M sold and they still finish higher than we do almost every year save 1; that is where the real issue is to me...not so much how much we are spending it's how we have spent it.

Over that period Spurs received £77 million - £85.3 for Bale depending on who you believe and £30m for Luca Modric again over £100m on two players.

All that shows to me is that the higher end transfer fee's received skewer the net spend argument somewhat especially the £40m upwards bracket as they are the anomaly, not the norm for the two respective clubs.

It also shows that including Torres's sale in that 5 year period that Spurs have quite simply spent their money better than we have.

I'm almost through reading Stevies book (his latest one) now, and there's a section in there where he talks about the Balotelli signing. Rodgers had a choice of E'to and Balotelli once we'd not got Sanchez (both were committee picks) according to Stevie. I'd have gone for Balotelli too.

It's unfortunate that whenever you discuss the transfer committee and our reluctance to pay big wages, people take it as a defence of the Rodgers years. It's normally the self same people who urge everyone to "get over him" too, which always makes me smile.

The system isn't very good IMHO. I've read the Ian Ayre step by step breakdown on how it works, "the manager says he needs a left back, he suggests someone, we look at players from around the world and give him a list, he chooses one from the list" etc. The stGe the system is missing is the manager saying "nah, tell you what, I'll stick with me original pick ta". Simples.

But again Brendan is basically on record as saying he didn't want Mario. Gerrard in his book talks of a chat they both had which they both voiced concerns but that we were out of options.

he didn't protest hard enough then did he. No way would a manager have such a  troubled player forced up on him the simple answer was "if Baloteli comes I walk". A complete waste of money in every possible way .

I'm almost through reading Stevies book (his latest one) now, and there's a section in there where he talks about the Balotelli signing. Rodgers had a choice of E'to and Balotelli once we'd not got Sanchez (both were committee picks) according to Stevie. I'd have gone for Balotelli too.

Liverpool Football Club sold Luis Suarez for £75M and then the manager was given a choice of two strikers on the planet?

And the manager thought this was reasonable, didn't kick up a fuss and happily tossed the coin - picked one and went on about how he could 'change Mario'?

And this was after we had been involved in a title chase and qualified for the Champions League?

Struggling to believe.

Don't think it is quite as easy as some think to give up a top very well paid job that you have devoted yourself to. Just as it is not so easy for managers as it is for players to do a "kiss and tell all" book or interview when they do eventually leave.

I think most managers would rather try to work with or fight to try to change the system they are unhappy with rather than just leave the club on a principle.

Just as now people are saying if X happens Jürgen will just walk... no he won't ( or at least not imo) We had years of the same under Rafa ... and we have seen at other clubs managers treated badly, but the vast majority like Van Gaal have to be prised out with a f**king crowbar.

I think the transfer committee system as we understand it is flawed. Any system where the best bargain is considered a better choice than the best player has to be. A manager lives and dies by the quality of his players and the results those players achieve. Do we look for the very best player we can afford or just the best player who fits the profile of wages/age/fee and resale value?  Do we buy someone who fits our system or just someone who can play that position?

 

Liverpool Football Club sold Luis Suarez for £75M and then the manager was given a choice of two strikers on the planet?

And the manager thought this was reasonable, didn't kick up a fuss and happily tossed the coin - picked one and went on about how he could 'change Mario'?

And this was after we had been involved in a title chase and qualified for the Champions League?

Struggling to believe.

Shocking as you say.

We really have had a amateur process with transfers.
So confident in landing Sanchez that there was no plan B.

Posters here were crying out for the likes of Lacazette, Dybala, Griezman etc and our clowns come up with Balotelli and Etoo   

Liverpool Football Club sold Luis Suarez for £75M and then the manager was given a choice of two strikers on the planet?

And the manager thought this was reasonable, didn't kick up a fuss and happily tossed the coin - picked one and went on about how he could 'change Mario'?

And this was after we had been involved in a title chase and qualified for the Champions League?

Struggling to believe.

I suppose we spent too long expecting Sanchez and afterwards the bloke with the heart problems to sign. By the time we had lost out on those, panic set, in the computer blew a fuse and threw up the first two players it could think of. 

he didn't protest hard enough then did he. No way would a manager have such a  troubled player forced up on him the simple answer was "if Baloteli comes I walk". A complete waste of money in every possible way .

So you'd  walk  away from the greatest job in the world because it wasn't smooth sailing?

Sorry Walt, but glad you aren't interviewing at my company

I didn't expect from Rodgers to tell TC transfers are sh*t when he is still in the job. I also believe that he would rather keep Suarez  than sign any other striker in the world. TC didn't picked captain, I agree, but also didn't coach the team when we played superb football 2013/2014. I just don't think Rodgers is man to blame for every bad transfer during his tenure. He fuc*ed up many times, but I don't think all transfers are his fault.

Trouble was tho mate he had no balls, he should told them at the time he wasn't happy at missing on his targets and making do with what the TC advised, the result was he was left at the mercy of the TC from then on in,
Suarez was always going to leave, why, because the owners didn't match his ambition that's why, in his mind he probably thought he was a big fish in a small pond, aside from Gerrard and perhaps Sturridge there was very little else that could have helped him stay, Rodgers too, he wasn't the calibre manager that would enhance his chances of silverware and medals,

Had TPM been allowed to bring in his targets...ie; Mikihiteran, Willian who knows perhaps we could have kept Suarez another year or so,

The captain issue is purely down to the gaffer, most of us agree Hendo isn't/wasn't  the right choice, but to be fair to him Gerrard left some pretty big boots to fill, local lad, legend, etc, in hindsight well we all have our own opinions on who it should be...perhaps Jürgen will remedy this for next season, but if things stay as they are we all need to get behind him and sing from the same song sheet .


YNWA

Trouble was tho mate he had no balls, he should told them at the time he wasn't happy at missing on his targets and making do with what the TC advised, the result was he was left at the mercy of the TC from then on in,
Suarez was always going to leave, why, because the owners didn't match his ambition that's why, in his mind he probably thought he was a big fish in a small pond, aside from Gerrard and perhaps Sturridge there was very little else that could have helped him stay, Rodgers too, he wasn't the calibre manager that would enhance his chances of silverware and medals,

Had TPM been allowed to bring in his targets...ie; Mikihiteran, Willian who knows perhaps we could have kept Suarez another year or so,

The captain issue is purely down to the gaffer, most of us agree Hendo isn't/wasn't  the right choice, but to be fair to him Gerrard left some pretty big boots to fill, local lad, legend, etc, in hindsight well we all have our own opinions on who it should be...perhaps Jürgen will remedy this for next season, but if things stay as they are we all need to get behind him and sing from the same song sheet .


YNWA

He applied for the big job  and eh voila he got it.
I think it was John Henry who said the TPM "did a good interview".
More like

"if you cant dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bullshit"

Boat and rock he was not going to do.

He was no Rafa who actually stood up to HandG... and said he that he got a lampshade.

We seem for years to have been naive to business dealing with Owen / Madrid ....... MacManaman running down his contract and expecting Sanchez to come without anything signed.
History repeats.

The captain issue was a case of who else was there ?

Suarez has just finished La Liga with 41 goals.
8 hat tricks.
Dont anyone tell me it was the TPM who "nearly got us the title".
Palace and Chelsea exposed the managerial sham.

With 50 goals conceded from ... at times ... a non existent defence to get even close was a miracle.
That miracle was called Luis.
Bought by King Kenny and Comolli.

So you'd  walk  away from the greatest job in the world because it wasn't smooth sailing?

Sorry Walt, but glad you aren't interviewing at my company

I retired in my mid 40's I don't need another job but any manager worth employing has to have a spine and a point where he says NO!!!!

He applied for the big job  and eh voila he got it.
I think it was John Henry who said the TPM "did a good interview".
More like

"if you cant dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bullshit"

Boat and rock he was not going to do.

He was no Rafa who actually stood up to HandG... and said he that he got a lampshade.

We seem for years to have been naive to business dealing with Owen / Madrid ....... MacManaman running down his contract and expecting Sanchez to come without anything signed.
History repeats.

The captain issue was a case of who else was there ?

Suarez has just finished La Liga with 41 goals.
8 hat tricks.
Dont anyone tell me it was the TPM who "nearly got us the title".
Palace and Chelsea exposed the managerial sham.

With 50 goals conceded from an at times a non existent defence to get even close was a miracle.
That miracle was called Luis.

Skip I know Brendan is not on your Xmas card list I think most of us get that, for me he did what he could within the limitations he had to work under. Having said that tho, he certainly didn't help himself by cow towing to the owners and his bullshittiness, I don't think he's a bad manager, he just wasn't good enough for us, in our nearly season under him we played some of the best football we had seen for many a year,

Luis could not have done what he did on his own, he like all his teammates followed a plan, a plan set up by Brendan, and it nearly, nearly f***in worked, I hate it when ppl say we lost or threw it away because Gerrard slipped or we capitulated against Palace, we lost the title because we dropped to many points against lesser teams notably Villa and Hull City,

Fwiw, I think TPM should have fell on his sword after our drubbing at Stoke, but he didn't and again he got fu**ed over by FSG and the TC in that summer window, final nail for me for Brendan, he knew it, he knew he wasn't up to getting those players up for another challenge, and the body language and the results told us the rest,

Fancy cars, whiter teeth better looking bi*ch. doesn't really matter. But his utterings were. They mattered, because ppl like your good self could see through the bullshittiness, and hats off mate,
It's history for me now and although it frustrates the sh*t out of me, I would rather look forward now and give massive Bifters to Jürgen and his merry men.


YNWA

Me too Billy  .
TPM is at Celtic so he can get on with it.

Yes mate he can peddle his sound bites at parkhead but it's only a matter of time before the bhoys are succumbed to Brendan-ness.


YNWA

I don't think Sanchez was ever going to come s@int, Liverpool not being as fashionable as Laandan as his bi*ch professed to, his loss imho, the Loic Remy thingy was he failed a Liverpool fitness test, his ticker wasn't up to the pressure of being sat on the bench for 7 months of the year,

Balotelli was foisted upon us because no other f**ker would have him, but good old Brendan with his circus outfit, namely a clown and his  bullshit said he'd have a go at taming him, looking back now with hindsight (always easier) I know, but I would doubt E'to would have given as much grief and would has certainly put more effort in.

YNWA

As usual we managed to balls everything up mate. We sold Suarez after the "World Cup bite", but it was hardly unexpected. We should have had our plans all prepared for if he did go.

“I was asked the question about Balotelli last week and spoke about what a talent he is and excellent player he is,” Rodgers said. “But I can categorically tell you that he will not be coming to Liverpool.

I really don't think you can blame Brendan too much for Balotelli. Maybe he could have said no and risked going into the season with only Lambert and Borini available? Maybe if he had said no, he would have got another apology letter from John Henry.

Nah for me Balotelli was a transfer committee fuckup, not Brendan's... he made enough of his own without trying to blame him for this one.   

I retired in my mid 40's I don't need another job but any manager worth employing has to have a spine and a point where he says NO!!!!

Nah, I want a manager that isn't afraid of a challenge, unless you are being asked to do something illegal or immoral, then you buckle down and get to work with what you have.

Nah, I want a manager that isn't afraid of a challenge, unless you are being asked to do something illegal or immoral, then you buckle down and get to work with what you have.

So FL you saying you like yes men. 

So FL you saying you like yes men. 

Maybe just managers that act like grown ups and don't throw their toys out of the pram every time there  is a problem.

Maybe just managers that act like grown ups and don't throw their toys out of the pram every time there  is a problem.

Acting like a grown up means not being scared to speak out, parent child relationships never work in successful management.

Acting like a grown up means not being scared to speak out, parent child relationships never work in successful management.

To be fair we don't really know what was said ... do we ?

To be fair we don't really know what was said ... do we ?

Your right, maybe just maybe if Rodgers had stood by his convictions as I don't think he wanted Balotelli or Etoo things may have turned out different.
 But yes all assumptions with hindsight.

Your right, maybe just maybe if Rodgers had stood by his convictions as I don't think he wanted Balotelli or Etoo things may have turned out different.
 But yes all assumptions with hindsight.

I honestly don't think so mate. I just think we would have saved £18 million on Balotelli but been without a striker for 12 months ...not that Balotteli was much better than no-one.

Brendan would still have lost his job, we would still have had a poor season and everyone would still be having a go at him for being a bit crap.

As usual we managed to balls everything up mate. We sold Suarez after the "World Cup bite", but it was hardly unexpected. We should have had our plans all prepared for if he did go.

“I was asked the question about Balotelli last week and spoke about what a talent he is and excellent player he is,” Rodgers said. “But I can categorically tell you that he will not be coming to Liverpool.

I really don't think you can blame Brendan too much for Balotelli. Maybe he could have said no and risked going into the season with only Lambert and Borini available? Maybe if he had said no, he would have got another apology letter from John Henry.

Nah for me Balotelli was a transfer committee fuckup, not Brendan's... he made enough of his own without trying to blame him for this one.   

I agree mate that's why I said Balo was foisted upon us, Brendan certainly never went chasing Mario, like you said a TC F**k up, I remember Brendan being tongue in cheek when asked what would Mario bring to Liverpool, Brendan's response was 'Trouble' as always he always had a positive spin on stuff like that, even to the detriment of us fans, sometimes he was cringeworthy,

You are of course correct, there was never a plan b,c or even d and that was purely down to the inept TC, and that prat with his PC, the w*nk that likes to say no.



YNWA

Whats TPM?

To be fair we don't really know what was said ... do we ?

That's very true s@int we don't, for me a manager should be allowed to manage, it's not like other industries where a manager has to work within parameters set by boards etc,
To a certain degree you could argue the same applies here, but where it differs is the manager is solely responsible for everything related to football,

Live and die by the sword so to speak, if all goes well he deserves all the plaudits , if things go tits up he's at the mercy of the board, that's all well and dandy, where it fucks up is when owners chairmen stick there ore in , restrict finances , employ inept transfer committees, and generally don't have a scooby what the F**k is going on, sound familiar ?

The aforementioned manager should have the power to bring in his choice of player within reason, he should also have the balls to speak out against decisions over and above his station that could effect the day to day running of the club or if it effects losing or gaining staff without his consent.

TPM was sucking too much Boston cock imho, so much so in fact he ended up getting shafted.


YNWA

Whats TPM?

Tits pussies and MUTHERFUCKERSSSS !!!!





The Previous Manager


YNWA

First post here so apologies if I'm missing something.

Is the club's primary goal to make money on the transfer market or to win championships?

Has to be the latter, correct?

The man with the expertise in building a squad that can do that is the manager, not some computer program.

Of course he will count on help from a good network of scouts, and that can include analytics, but it all has to be about players who fit into the various needs a successful football team have. Not just positions on the park but roles in the team such as better defending in the air from set pieces, someone who can close down the middle, someone who can both press AND score, etc. A computer model might give you some useful information on a left back for instance, but it takes multiple sets of eyeballs, and a wise decision-maker in charge, to ultimately decide if person X is the right buy when you need someone to strike the right balance between getting forward and handling defensive duties when the attack is coming from the opposite flank.

I don't think Klopp even comes here without that being understood and agreed upon beforehand. Maybe that's different than the arrangement Brendan had. Maybe that was a lesson learned by Fenway. That's not Klopp's problem.

Of course money is not unlimited, but in the end you want a single-mindedness from the club on what you are about - and at Liverpool that must be winning trophies. Do that and the profits WILL follow.

Leicester City was a perfect storm. Great story, but that won't happen again for a long time. It's not a model for us.

This article in The Guardian about how Seville's scouting network works was pretty interesting. I wonder how similar ours is, if at all.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/may/17/sevilla-monchi-liverpool-europa-league-final

It's amazing people can't discuss the transfer committee without losing it over Rodgers. He's gone!

If you don't belive what Gerrard is saying then that's up to yourself, but it's been documented by various people on a number of occasions. We tried to sign Sanchez and he chose Arsenal, Gerrard himself got involved with the courting of the player. Then, Rodgers wanted Loic Remy and the player wanted to come, once again Gerrard spoke with the player. When he failed his medical, the manager was given a choice of E'to or Balotelli. They did a medical on E'to while Rodgers did all that "looking into Balotelli's eyes" bollocks. He went with super Mario.

Now if people want to convince themselves that Rodgers actually wanted Balotelli, or that he "should have walked" if he didn't, fair enough. That's a separate question though. The question is, do we support the current manager or not? I would contest that if the Balotelli situation is true (and it is, however much mouth foam we chuck at it) then it's a complete f****** nonsense.


OH AND QUICK EDIT; I'M NOT SAYING ANY OF THIS TO DEFEND RODGERS. I'M SAYING IT BECAUSE I WANT THE OWNERS TO SUPPORT Jürgen, AND FOR THE FANS TO REALISE WHAT HE'S UP AGAINST IF THEY DON'T.

... but been without a striker for 12 months ...not that Balotteli was much better than no-one.

Brendan would still have lost his job, we would still have had a poor season and everyone would still be having a go at him for being a bit crap.

....but we did have the superstar Fabio Borini !

Experience at Chelsea (?)  and Swansea (?)      .........    and someone's very first signing .

....but we did have the superstar Fabio Borini !

Experience at Chelsea (?)  and Swansea (?)      .........    and someone's very first signing .

Unfortunately mate your hatred of Rodgers means that you are unable to see past it when discussing issues at the moment which are unrelated. Fabio Borini was a poor buy at 11 million quid, but he is precisely f*** all to do with discussions about the transfer process.

Unfortunately mate your hatred of Rodgers means that you are unable to see past it when discussing issues at the moment which are unrelated. Fabio Borini was a poor buy at 11 million quid, but he is precisely f*** all to do with discussions about the transfer process.

Mick lets be honest mate  shall we ?

I saw the yellow red heart and I knew it would be you. *

Yes You are right .  Borini was useless and TPM's mate from his time at previous clubs
The first ally he got on board ...if you cant see through that.

Hatred  ?    Thats mild.

BR was still  sucking £100k a week off us until the Greens appointed him.
No rush to get back to work and btw   ......  NO Premier League team came in for him if he had been that f**king good.



*  Everybody happy now ?

Imho the signings so far this summer have 'been Jurgens' (two guys from his old stomping ground/league, one from Serbian league). They have gost us next to nothing, so am sure FSG, TC etc are fine with that, are putting trust in Jürgen's selection, that these are promising young players. Don't think he was picking from any TC list there.

We've signed plenty of promising young players signed under various managers, hopefully Klopp's success percentages are higher than some others. There's not a lot of top talent coming through the system at the club, so investing/gambling on imported youth is next best thing I guess. They work out, brilliant, they don't, you haven't lost a whole pile.

When it comes to the *bigger money* signings though, think starts to get less clear. Gotze was someone I think Jürgen wanted, Mane - is he a name off a list? Certainly smacks of deja-vu - Saints, overpriced, mid-table, relatively unproven.

And of course, we can't compete then when the money ratchets up. Klopp might want a guy, we bid, negotiation happens, time passes, we dawdle, other team comes in, bids more, gets the man, we're left holding our dicks, TC kicks in a bit more as time runs out to fill the position, tough choices need to be made, almost nobody ends up happy.

Whatever about ALL of this, the manager will be left to carry the can.

Have sympathy for BR in some respects, but in the end his(our) record in the transfer market caught with him. So it will go with Jürgen, he will take the credit if all goes well, and the fall if goes down the pan. So it is in HIS interests to make sure he gets the people he wants. It will be interesting when we get to a critical point of a big transfer (like a Sanchez for example) to see what happens - will we get our man, or will we retrace our steps, loose out and end up scrambling in a bargain bin for a stopgap...

No rush to get back to work and btw   ......  NO Premier League team came in for him if he had been that f**king good.

Rafa's down the championship, you don't hear anyone banging that drum though.

Mick lets be honest mate  shall we ?

I saw the yellow heart and I knew it would be you.

Yes You are right .  Borini was useless and TPM's mate from his time at previous clubs
The first ally he got on board ...if you cant see through that.

Hatred  ?    Thats mild.

BR was still  sucking £100k a week off us until the Greens appointed him.
No rush to get back to work and btw   ......  NO Premier League team came in for him if he had been that f**king good.

What's a yellow heart?

Whats TPM?

HHYNPTUFPT

Rafa's down the championship, you don't hear anyone banging that drum though.

Rafa ....to his credit ....has made that choice and has to be given respect for it.
Hes has taken a short term loss ... long term gain view.
They were a Premier League side and didn't appoint him soon enough.
I wish Rafa well and expect to see him return in a one season.

Liverpool Football Club sold Luis Suarez for £75M and then the manager was given a choice of two strikers on the planet?

And the manager thought this was reasonable, didn't kick up a fuss and happily tossed the coin - picked one and went on about how he could 'change Mario'?

And this was after we had been involved in a title chase and qualified for the Champions League?

Struggling to believe.

It is unbelievable, no doubt about that. And it was unbelievable at the time too.
What was just as unbelievable though was that Luis went one way, Sanchez went the other - but not too us !!!
We had a pretty big bargaining chip and somehow managed to ejaculate prematurely ending up with schoolboy-cardboard-pants. F***ing amatuer.
Don't blame BR for that. We fu**ed up royally there. Sanchez's wife wanted to go to London - please.

One advantage this time round though is we have a manager of World profile who can charm the skin off a snake...

Oh yea, and Remy's 'bad heart'. Can only HOPE that we can blame a computer program for the decision not to sign him. Yet another case of us porking ourselves royally in the backside. Remy might not have been brilliant, but he might have done OK ... AND we also might not have had to sign f**king mr. chandelier earrings as a result.
Hopefully under Klopp we can cut through some of the crap we have had to witness previously. Hopefully.

Mick lets be honest mate  shall we ?

I saw the yellow heart and I knew it would be you.

Yes You are right .  Borini was useless and TPM's mate from his time at previous clubs
The first ally he got on board ...if you cant see through that.

Hatred  ?    Thats mild.

BR was still  sucking £100k a week off us until the Greens appointed him.
No rush to get back to work and btw   ......  NO Premier League team came in for him if he had been that f**king good.

Eh?

Get rid of softies ... they are bad feng shui. Sell the lot and get some real muscles in, moreso in midfield. Klopp to stop the fatherly figure, use the sledgehammer instead. No more sentiments attached to the players, we mean business. he must turn us into a "red machine" as what we used to be back in the 70s and 80s.

Eh?

Hair and split come to mind.
Red.
Happy ?

Go Back.   Corrected . Check.


Better things to do ?

Personally I can't wait till Mr computer man says the computer says no to Jürgen

And that is the issue. When Brendan was on Goals on Sunday last season he basically gave away how Alberto Moreno came to this club. He said that he needed a left back, there were 4 choices he was given. None of those were players he wanted but he had to take one because we couldn't go without one.

The Ian Ayre gets involved, we pay over the odds and before you know it 'Brendan spent millions on crap players'.

Yes, but if this is the case then it follows that this process was also responsible for signing the likes of Studge, Coutinho, Suarez, and Can for relative peanuts.  Pros and cons, but you have to look at both sides....

Isn't more a case of Ayre gobbing off porkies and appeasing the powers at be?

Anyhoo I thought his days were numbered and he was riding off into the sunset on his Harley?  So why is he still negotiating possible transfers?

I don't think Jürgen has carte blanch with the FSG dollars but I would have thought he'd have much more influence than TPM, I would like to think Jürgen would have this as part of his contract,
Surely even FSG will note that the TC isn't quite working as it should apart of course from the dollars saved!!

It goes without saying the TC obviously still has a say, it's how much of a say that concerns me?

YNWA

This seems bang on for me.  I can't imagine that Klopp would have agreed to sign on if he didn't get contractual assurances over the amount of money he'd be given to spend on transfer fees and wages, and a high level of control over who we buy and sell.  That said, Jürgen will be held accountable for all of the transfers -- the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Yes, but if this is the case then it follows that this process was also responsible for signing the likes of Studge, Coutinho, Suarez, and Can for relative peanuts.  Pros and cons

I just look at our league position and our general lack of success

If we're gonna spend money like the rest my side would be this
                   Karius
Clyne     lovren     matip    Hector
               Pastore  Can
Milner       Firmino      Gortze
                      Origi   

Milner is not a CM neither is Hendo so milner and Hendo can play on the right. If  Markovic is to stay then he can play left or right. Not sure what's going to happen with Coutinho or Sturridge. Klopp likes the 4 2 3 1 formation so we need players who can press and keep the ball so this is it for me.players like Allen, Lucas and skrtel will be off aswell I think.

If we're gonna spend money like the rest my side would be this
                   Karius
Clyne     lovren     matip    Hector
               Pastore  Can
Milner       Firmino      Gortze
                      Origi   

Milner is not a CM neither is Hendo so milner and Hendo can play on the right. If  Markovic is to stay then he can play left or right. Not sure what's going to happen with Coutinho or Sturridge. Klopp likes the 4 2 3 1 formation so we need players who can press and keep the ball so this is it for me.players like Allen, Lucas and skrtel will be off aswell I think.

Bad lineup. No point guessing at this stage. I think the team will be more settled than that.