They Go... Who Decides? (Big Jürgen Is Watching You)

Suarez and Sterling recouped over £100m

Two players, the spend would never have been that big without those sales.

It's net spend Daz...we sold £163M worth of players...United sold £158M and Chelsea sold £198M it's all relative when we are talking net of sales.

If you are looking at a real contrast Spurs over a 5 year period has a -£10 million/season net spend £250M bought £308M sold and they still finish higher than we do almost every year save 1; that is where the real issue is to me...not so much how much we are spending it's how we have spent it.

Hell even Arsenal have a lower net spend then we do and they finish above us every year.

Also AZ another point from your excellent post, on Spurs. They've stumbled upon an absolutely top striker who has appeared from nowhere from their youth ranks which really helps. Not quite a Steven Gerrard moment, but it is an absolutely huge bonus and as such I'd expect them to outperform any spending figures, such things really help in a big way. Of course the signing of Deli Ali for 5 million quid has had a similar effect (and of course it's worth remembering he was another player who was a managers pick at Liverpool but that we missed out on through low balling).

Leicester too will blow cash spend versus performance charts out of the water. But Mahrez, Cante and Vardy are ensuring that is the case. By and large though, if you are going to compete at the top f the league for a sustained period you have to compete at the top of the league in transfers and wages.

My contention has always been that if funds ARE limited (which it appears they are) why bother wasting money buying players the manager doesn't want? Why not put the manager fully in the picture as to what our budget is overall in terms of fees and wages, then let HIM decide where he allocates the funds? By all means let Ayre do the negotiating with the selling club, but it should be THE MANAGER who either pulls the plug or goes ahead with the deal.

Just shows me more than anything how inefficient we have been I am hoping Jürgen and his brain can sort this out a bit.

1: Is Jürgen really in control?

Man I wish

2: Will Jürgen merely (as Ayre infers) just be following the tried and tested? Or..

probably....

3: Will we see the status quo remain (amongst posters, that is) wherein, the boss will get kudos for transfers which work while the Transfer Committee will be blamed for any flops? [for a while anyhow]

This is the correct answer unfortunately.

It would have to be No2 I'm afraid. Jürgen will state which positions he needs filled, a list will be drawn up, and Jürgen will be given his choice ( add long as the price its right). Jürgen will then work his magic to turn them into would beaters ( hopefully!).

I have a feeling Rodgers thought he could make Balotelli into Suarez its the only explanation that makes any sense to sign a complete dud of a player and a waste of talent another brainless oaf.
I am relaxed about spending now because as we all new we could have done so much better with the money we have spent and Leicester have proved its not all about how much a player is worth its about how hungry they are for success.

After he had been sacked.

I suppose the transfer committee must have picked the weakest captain we've had in 50 years too.

I have a feeling Rodgers thought he could make Balotelli into Suarez its the only explanation that makes any sense to sign a complete dud of a player and a waste of talent another brainless oaf.
I am relaxed about spending now because as we all new we could have done so much better with the money we have spent and Leicester have proved its not all about how much a player is worth its about how hungry they are for success.

But again Brendan is basically on record as saying he didn't want Mario. Gerrard in his book talks of a chat they both had which they both voiced concerns but that we were out of options.

If you are looking at a real contrast Spurs over a 5 year period has a -£10 million/season net spend £250M bought £308M sold and they still finish higher than we do almost every year save 1; that is where the real issue is to me...not so much how much we are spending it's how we have spent it.

Over that period Spurs received £77 million - £85.3 for Bale depending on who you believe and £30m for Luca Modric again over £100m on two players.

All that shows to me is that the higher end transfer fee's received skewer the net spend argument somewhat especially the £40m upwards bracket as they are the anomaly, not the norm for the two respective clubs.

It also shows that including Torres's sale in that 5 year period that Spurs have quite simply spent their money better than we have.

I'm almost through reading Stevies book (his latest one) now, and there's a section in there where he talks about the Balotelli signing. Rodgers had a choice of E'to and Balotelli once we'd not got Sanchez (both were committee picks) according to Stevie. I'd have gone for Balotelli too.

It's unfortunate that whenever you discuss the transfer committee and our reluctance to pay big wages, people take it as a defence of the Rodgers years. It's normally the self same people who urge everyone to "get over him" too, which always makes me smile.

The system isn't very good IMHO. I've read the Ian Ayre step by step breakdown on how it works, "the manager says he needs a left back, he suggests someone, we look at players from around the world and give him a list, he chooses one from the list" etc. The stGe the system is missing is the manager saying "nah, tell you what, I'll stick with me original pick ta". Simples.

But again Brendan is basically on record as saying he didn't want Mario. Gerrard in his book talks of a chat they both had which they both voiced concerns but that we were out of options.

he didn't protest hard enough then did he. No way would a manager have such a  troubled player forced up on him the simple answer was "if Baloteli comes I walk". A complete waste of money in every possible way .

I'm almost through reading Stevies book (his latest one) now, and there's a section in there where he talks about the Balotelli signing. Rodgers had a choice of E'to and Balotelli once we'd not got Sanchez (both were committee picks) according to Stevie. I'd have gone for Balotelli too.

Liverpool Football Club sold Luis Suarez for £75M and then the manager was given a choice of two strikers on the planet?

And the manager thought this was reasonable, didn't kick up a fuss and happily tossed the coin - picked one and went on about how he could 'change Mario'?

And this was after we had been involved in a title chase and qualified for the Champions League?

Struggling to believe.

Don't think it is quite as easy as some think to give up a top very well paid job that you have devoted yourself to. Just as it is not so easy for managers as it is for players to do a "kiss and tell all" book or interview when they do eventually leave.

I think most managers would rather try to work with or fight to try to change the system they are unhappy with rather than just leave the club on a principle.

Just as now people are saying if X happens Jürgen will just walk... no he won't ( or at least not imo) We had years of the same under Rafa ... and we have seen at other clubs managers treated badly, but the vast majority like Van Gaal have to be prised out with a f**king crowbar.

I think the transfer committee system as we understand it is flawed. Any system where the best bargain is considered a better choice than the best player has to be. A manager lives and dies by the quality of his players and the results those players achieve. Do we look for the very best player we can afford or just the best player who fits the profile of wages/age/fee and resale value?  Do we buy someone who fits our system or just someone who can play that position?

 

Liverpool Football Club sold Luis Suarez for £75M and then the manager was given a choice of two strikers on the planet?

And the manager thought this was reasonable, didn't kick up a fuss and happily tossed the coin - picked one and went on about how he could 'change Mario'?

And this was after we had been involved in a title chase and qualified for the Champions League?

Struggling to believe.

Shocking as you say.

We really have had a amateur process with transfers.
So confident in landing Sanchez that there was no plan B.

Posters here were crying out for the likes of Lacazette, Dybala, Griezman etc and our clowns come up with Balotelli and Etoo   

Liverpool Football Club sold Luis Suarez for £75M and then the manager was given a choice of two strikers on the planet?

And the manager thought this was reasonable, didn't kick up a fuss and happily tossed the coin - picked one and went on about how he could 'change Mario'?

And this was after we had been involved in a title chase and qualified for the Champions League?

Struggling to believe.

I suppose we spent too long expecting Sanchez and afterwards the bloke with the heart problems to sign. By the time we had lost out on those, panic set, in the computer blew a fuse and threw up the first two players it could think of. 

he didn't protest hard enough then did he. No way would a manager have such a  troubled player forced up on him the simple answer was "if Baloteli comes I walk". A complete waste of money in every possible way .

So you'd  walk  away from the greatest job in the world because it wasn't smooth sailing?

Sorry Walt, but glad you aren't interviewing at my company

I didn't expect from Rodgers to tell TC transfers are sh*t when he is still in the job. I also believe that he would rather keep Suarez  than sign any other striker in the world. TC didn't picked captain, I agree, but also didn't coach the team when we played superb football 2013/2014. I just don't think Rodgers is man to blame for every bad transfer during his tenure. He fuc*ed up many times, but I don't think all transfers are his fault.

Trouble was tho mate he had no balls, he should told them at the time he wasn't happy at missing on his targets and making do with what the TC advised, the result was he was left at the mercy of the TC from then on in,
Suarez was always going to leave, why, because the owners didn't match his ambition that's why, in his mind he probably thought he was a big fish in a small pond, aside from Gerrard and perhaps Sturridge there was very little else that could have helped him stay, Rodgers too, he wasn't the calibre manager that would enhance his chances of silverware and medals,

Had TPM been allowed to bring in his targets...ie; Mikihiteran, Willian who knows perhaps we could have kept Suarez another year or so,

The captain issue is purely down to the gaffer, most of us agree Hendo isn't/wasn't  the right choice, but to be fair to him Gerrard left some pretty big boots to fill, local lad, legend, etc, in hindsight well we all have our own opinions on who it should be...perhaps Jürgen will remedy this for next season, but if things stay as they are we all need to get behind him and sing from the same song sheet .


YNWA

Trouble was tho mate he had no balls, he should told them at the time he wasn't happy at missing on his targets and making do with what the TC advised, the result was he was left at the mercy of the TC from then on in,
Suarez was always going to leave, why, because the owners didn't match his ambition that's why, in his mind he probably thought he was a big fish in a small pond, aside from Gerrard and perhaps Sturridge there was very little else that could have helped him stay, Rodgers too, he wasn't the calibre manager that would enhance his chances of silverware and medals,

Had TPM been allowed to bring in his targets...ie; Mikihiteran, Willian who knows perhaps we could have kept Suarez another year or so,

The captain issue is purely down to the gaffer, most of us agree Hendo isn't/wasn't  the right choice, but to be fair to him Gerrard left some pretty big boots to fill, local lad, legend, etc, in hindsight well we all have our own opinions on who it should be...perhaps Jürgen will remedy this for next season, but if things stay as they are we all need to get behind him and sing from the same song sheet .


YNWA

He applied for the big job  and eh voila he got it.
I think it was John Henry who said the TPM "did a good interview".
More like

"if you cant dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bullshit"

Boat and rock he was not going to do.

He was no Rafa who actually stood up to HandG... and said he that he got a lampshade.

We seem for years to have been naive to business dealing with Owen / Madrid ....... MacManaman running down his contract and expecting Sanchez to come without anything signed.
History repeats.

The captain issue was a case of who else was there ?

Suarez has just finished La Liga with 41 goals.
8 hat tricks.
Dont anyone tell me it was the TPM who "nearly got us the title".
Palace and Chelsea exposed the managerial sham.

With 50 goals conceded from ... at times ... a non existent defence to get even close was a miracle.
That miracle was called Luis.
Bought by King Kenny and Comolli.

So you'd  walk  away from the greatest job in the world because it wasn't smooth sailing?

Sorry Walt, but glad you aren't interviewing at my company

I retired in my mid 40's I don't need another job but any manager worth employing has to have a spine and a point where he says NO!!!!

He applied for the big job  and eh voila he got it.
I think it was John Henry who said the TPM "did a good interview".
More like

"if you cant dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bullshit"

Boat and rock he was not going to do.

He was no Rafa who actually stood up to HandG... and said he that he got a lampshade.

We seem for years to have been naive to business dealing with Owen / Madrid ....... MacManaman running down his contract and expecting Sanchez to come without anything signed.
History repeats.

The captain issue was a case of who else was there ?

Suarez has just finished La Liga with 41 goals.
8 hat tricks.
Dont anyone tell me it was the TPM who "nearly got us the title".
Palace and Chelsea exposed the managerial sham.

With 50 goals conceded from an at times a non existent defence to get even close was a miracle.
That miracle was called Luis.

Skip I know Brendan is not on your Xmas card list I think most of us get that, for me he did what he could within the limitations he had to work under. Having said that tho, he certainly didn't help himself by cow towing to the owners and his bullshittiness, I don't think he's a bad manager, he just wasn't good enough for us, in our nearly season under him we played some of the best football we had seen for many a year,

Luis could not have done what he did on his own, he like all his teammates followed a plan, a plan set up by Brendan, and it nearly, nearly f***in worked, I hate it when ppl say we lost or threw it away because Gerrard slipped or we capitulated against Palace, we lost the title because we dropped to many points against lesser teams notably Villa and Hull City,

Fwiw, I think TPM should have fell on his sword after our drubbing at Stoke, but he didn't and again he got fu**ed over by FSG and the TC in that summer window, final nail for me for Brendan, he knew it, he knew he wasn't up to getting those players up for another challenge, and the body language and the results told us the rest,

Fancy cars, whiter teeth better looking bi*ch. doesn't really matter. But his utterings were. They mattered, because ppl like your good self could see through the bullshittiness, and hats off mate,
It's history for me now and although it frustrates the sh*t out of me, I would rather look forward now and give massive Bifters to Jürgen and his merry men.


YNWA

Me too Billy  .
TPM is at Celtic so he can get on with it.

Yes mate he can peddle his sound bites at parkhead but it's only a matter of time before the bhoys are succumbed to Brendan-ness.


YNWA

I don't think Sanchez was ever going to come s@int, Liverpool not being as fashionable as Laandan as his bi*ch professed to, his loss imho, the Loic Remy thingy was he failed a Liverpool fitness test, his ticker wasn't up to the pressure of being sat on the bench for 7 months of the year,

Balotelli was foisted upon us because no other f**ker would have him, but good old Brendan with his circus outfit, namely a clown and his  bullshit said he'd have a go at taming him, looking back now with hindsight (always easier) I know, but I would doubt E'to would have given as much grief and would has certainly put more effort in.

YNWA

As usual we managed to balls everything up mate. We sold Suarez after the "World Cup bite", but it was hardly unexpected. We should have had our plans all prepared for if he did go.

“I was asked the question about Balotelli last week and spoke about what a talent he is and excellent player he is,” Rodgers said. “But I can categorically tell you that he will not be coming to Liverpool.

I really don't think you can blame Brendan too much for Balotelli. Maybe he could have said no and risked going into the season with only Lambert and Borini available? Maybe if he had said no, he would have got another apology letter from John Henry.

Nah for me Balotelli was a transfer committee fuckup, not Brendan's... he made enough of his own without trying to blame him for this one.   

I retired in my mid 40's I don't need another job but any manager worth employing has to have a spine and a point where he says NO!!!!

Nah, I want a manager that isn't afraid of a challenge, unless you are being asked to do something illegal or immoral, then you buckle down and get to work with what you have.