Arsenal 3-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

Still think it's a fault of the covering defenders and midfield though Luke. 

Whether we agree with Jurgens methods or not, it's not Morenos responsibility to make sure there's cover behind him.  He plays to transition triggers, the main one being to get on his bike as soon as we move the ball forward and it's the players behind and to the side who are failing to read those triggers and position themselves ready for if the move breaks down.

Klavan and Gini are still learning that and to an extent Hendo and Lallana were also in unfamiliar territory and all were sucked in towards the ball.

It'll come with training and regular drilling as it'll be second nature to them all, we've just got to adjust our thinking in what we expect from our lfb, cos it isn't to defend 

He didn't get much support from the player in front of him either, but it'll come given time.

Very good point about transition triggers, and spot on IMO.

He didn't get much support from the player in front of him either, but it'll come given time.

Very good point about transition triggers, and spot on IMO.

It's tough going mate but I'm starting to get the hang of watching the game from a coaching PoV rather than a fans. 

It's a totally different experience and I agree, it'll come in time.

It's tough going mate but I'm starting to get the hang of watching the game from a coaching PoV rather than a fans. 

It's a totally different experience and I agree, it'll come in time.

I record matches, and watch first as a fan (but still making some notes, sad old f**ker that I am), then watch again from a coaching or "technical" perspective as I call it. Same thing, different name.

I'm constantly surprised by how much I miss on first viewing.
I think that because the camera's follow the ball, it's easy to focus on that, and miss a wider view, which is where your point about transition triggers comes in.
Anyone who thinks Moreno just takes it on himself to sprint upfield is missing a very big part of how Klopp likes his teams to play, and how he gets them to play to his plan.
It was interesting in his presser after the match that he spoke at some length about gaps, and distances between the different positions, and we'll see more of the same until the new lads are fully bedded in.

As ever, it seems the forum needs a scapegoat, and Moreno is just the latest in a long line.
I agree that defensively he hasn't been great, or even good at times, but his attacking play is generally excellent.

I record matches, and watch first as a fan (but still making some notes, sad old f**ker that I am), then watch again from a coaching or "technical" perspective as I call it. Same thing, different name.

I'm constantly surprised by how much I miss on first viewing.
I think that because the camera's follow the ball, it's easy to focus on that, and miss a wider view, which is where your point about transition triggers comes in.
Anyone who thinks Moreno just takes it on himself to sprint upfield is missing a very big part of how Klopp likes his teams to play, and how he gets them to play to his plan.
It was interesting in his presser after the match that he spoke at some length about gaps, and distances between the different positions, and we'll see more of the same until the new lads are fully bedded in.

As ever, it seems the forum needs a scapegoat, and Moreno is just the latest in a long line.
I agree that defensively he hasn't been great, or even good at times, but his attacking play is generally excellent.

That's how I do it too mate but without the notes, I watched it again this morning hence my comments today rather than after the game.

I've been researching all summer about Jurgens tactics, systems, methods and what he wants from players in each position and comparing it to our purchases.

We're a way off yet as we've still not got our preferred choices available right across the pitch due to injuries and late returners, I expect 3 out of the 5 in defence to change but I doubt Moreno will be one of them.

Addressing the criticism of Firmino - he has Sturridge and Coutinho playing his two preferred roles so he can't get a consistent run in the team.

I do think that Firmino will end up a fantastic player for us - kind of Suarez' replacement but a notch or two down from his level

However Luis wasn't banging goals in left right and centre in his first season and a half.

Firmino only scored one less premier league goal than Suarez in his first full season here...they're even a similar when they joined

Cut him some slack - he's not exactly an outfield version of Mignolet.

And we won!!

And we won!!

Not sure we can rely on wonder goals to pull us out of the crap every game though.

Not sure we can rely on wonder goals to pull us out of the crap every game though.

Who cares.  We were missing 3 of our preferred starters in defense with a makeshift midfield 3 in front of them.

It was a fabulous result at a very difficult place to take 3 points from.

Who cares.  We were missing 3 of our preferred starters in defense with a makeshift midfield 3 in front of them.

It was a fabulous result at a very difficult place to take 3 points from.

I don't think just because we won means we should just shut our eyes to the problems we have. I am pretty certain Jürgen won't.

we've just got to adjust our thinking in what we expect from our lfb, cos it isn't to defend 

Amusing statement Debs. 

OK So we dont need a  winger then ..... we've got one .

Who cares.  We were missing 3 of our preferred starters in defense with a makeshift midfield 3 in front of them.

It was a fabulous result at a very difficult place to take 3 points from.

What do you think our preferred back line looks like Debs?

I don't think just because we won means we should just shut our eyes to the problems we have. I am pretty certain Jürgen won't.

As far as I'm concerned that's Jurgens problem to solve, mine is to be overjoyed we won.

What do you think our preferred back line looks like Debs?

When everyone's fit and ready, Karius, Clyne, Matip, Sakho, Moreno mate.

Amusing statement Debs. 

OK So we dont need a  winger then ..... we've got one .

If you mean an attacking outlet out wide then yeah we have mate 

As far as I'm concerned that's Jurgens problem to solve, mine is to be overjoyed we won.

We are all overjoyed we won, it just some people like to also discuss the game rather than just jumping up and down celebrating, which is why we discuss players and tactics rather than just saying that's Jürgen's problem.

Maybe we should have a separate thread for those like you that just want to say YAY when we win?

 

We are all overjoyed we won, it just some people like to also discuss the game rather than just jumping up and down celebrating, which is why we discuss players and tactics rather than just saying that's Jürgen's problem.

Maybe we should have a separate thread for those like you that just want to say YAY when we win?

 

No probs mate but you weren't discussing anything with your stats post, so I'll apologise for spoiling your negative post with some positivity.

I'm out.

Not sure we can rely on wonder goals to pull us out of the crap every game though.

Nor am I sure that our defending will be as bad as that for every game!

No probs mate but you weren't discussing anything with your stats post, so I'll apologise for spoiling your negative post with some positivity.

I'm out.

Nah but I was highlighting what I considered to be a problem. Maybe we lost most of our headers and tackles to lead Arsenal into another trap

Nor am I sure that our defending will be as bad as that for every game!

It had better not be !

Nah but I was highlighting what I considered to be a problem. Maybe we lost most of our headers and tackles to lead Arsenal into another trap

Bit of a cheap shot...sorry Debs.

Not sure we can rely on wonder goals to pull us out of the crap every game though.

Wouldn't say "pull us out of the crap" more "score world class goals to win"  saint.
The game has changed and tactics play a massive part in collecting 3 points each week in this league.

Scenario of away at West Brom, 20 minutes left and the game is going nowhere and Studge falls under a challenge 25 yards out.
Up pops Couts the mini samba and puts it in the top corner..We see the game out and take the 3 points.

All the top teams in this league have one or two "Game Changers", you have to..
Players that when the game is on it's arse get the ball and pull it out the bag for the team.

I di think though that we are seeing more and more wonder goals in this league, must be those new lightweight balls. ha

Wouldn't say "pull us out of the crap" more "score world class goals to win"  saint.
The game has changed and tactics play a massive part in collecting 3 points each week in this league.

Scenario of away at West Brom, 20 minutes left and the game is going nowhere and Studge falls under a challenge 25 yards out.
Up pops Couts the mini samba and puts it in the top corner..We see the game out and take the 3 points.

All the top teams in this league have one or two "Game Changers", you have to..
Players that when the game is on it's arse get the ball and pull it out the bag for the team.

I di think though that we are seeing more and more wonder goals in this league, must be those new lightweight balls. ha

The problem is mate that if we defend like we did against Arsenal we would need 3 or 4 goals against WBA to get a draw never mind win.

We need to not only start defending better but once we are in front, we need to start controlling games. As I have said before we can't always win 4-3 and we found that out to our cost many times last season.