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      LFC Reds Poll

      Q. LFC Man of the Match v Spurs?

      Philippe Coutinho
      0 (0%)
      Sadio Mane
      33 (29.7%)
      Simon Mignolet
      3 (2.7%)
      Adam Lallana
      0 (0%)
      Georginio Wijnaldum
      2 (1.8%)
      Jordan Henderson
      9 (8.1%)
      James Milner
      10 (9%)
      Dejan Lovren
      8 (7.2%)
      Joel Matip
      32 (28.8%)
      Nathaniel Clyne
      0 (0%)
      Roberto Firmino
      12 (10.8%)
      Daniel Sturridge
      2 (1.8%)
      Divock Origi
      0 (0%)

      Total Members Voted: 106

      Voting closed: Aug 31, 2016 02:23:36 pm

      Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      crouchinho
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #621: Aug 29, 2016 04:41:08 pm
      And you could have had an extra forward to dove-tail with Mane to get in behind their defense. Sturridge's movement and play off the last defender is second to none in this team and would have caused Spurs WAY more problems.

      We've seen it against Spurs in the past - we've punished them before under a manager who exposed and annihilated their back line - with the movement and runners from the apex of our attack. You don't need to bring attackers back like you say we did with Firmino, you need them to move in and behind their defense. We made it way to easy for them.

      The result is the proof in the pudding, we never exploited their weaknesses as often as we could have and we had nobody in the side clinical enough to score a goal from open play.


      We had TWO MEN running beyond their line specifically to exploit their high defence in Coutinho and especially Mané. And then Lallana pushing forward and Wijnaldum on occassion.

      It is literally the same tactics that destroyed Chelsea, City and the like last season. Were you in here moaning then? Like F**k you were.

      We carved them open on at least a half dozen occasions. 3 times a ball was overhit for Mané in the first half when he was in 30 yards of space. Remember their keeper flying out? Was that just me that saw it? Had Lallana or Hendo picked him out he'd have a hat trick.

      I mean, come on, mate. You don't need my word, just watch the game again.
      s@int
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #622: Aug 29, 2016 05:59:36 pm
      F***ing hell it's going to be a long couple of weeks till our next game !
      srslfc
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #623: Aug 29, 2016 06:01:02 pm
      F***ing hell it's going to be a long couple of weeks till our next game !

      Yep.

      Makes me kind of glad I'm too busy to post much at the moment.
      s@int
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #624: Aug 29, 2016 06:04:51 pm
      Yep.

      Makes me kind of glad I'm too busy to post much at the moment.

      I've been on a few times over the last couple of days, had a quick look round and just decided not to bother posting.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #625: Aug 29, 2016 06:19:10 pm
      Don't you just hate internationals?...
      bmck
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #626: Aug 29, 2016 07:23:46 pm
      If Sturridge had played, we'd have won that game and killed Spurs off.

      We don't know though mate. Maybe, maybe not.

      Personally think Studge is our best striker. But also think he's looked rusty when I've seen him lately and I don't count shooting Burtonfish in a barrel.  Think Firmino has done well enough to justify Klopp starting him - if Cou is on scoring form last weekend, we win the game.
      In saying that, if a not 100% Studge had managed to get the same game time as Firmino, would he be on the scorers list by now? possibly, more of a natural finisher, that can have off day and yet score.

      Finding it hard to get my head round why Studge, even now when seemingly fit, can't even get a start against Burton. Like, why would Klopp not be trying to get him into the first XI asap ? If he REALLY wanted him back, would he not be giving him every opportunity ... but Origi is getting on ahead of him.  The more you see Klopp sides, the more you feel Studge is not going to be here long term.
      DanMann
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #627: Aug 30, 2016 12:35:11 am
      I think that is some peoples perception, that Firmino is playing centre forward, he's not, Klopp likes a fluid high pressing front 3 which is what he fielded.

      Firmino may not be playing it, but that seems to be the role Klopp has given him. He is centrally placed, and more advanced than our other players.

      Were that not so, it would make more sense for Sturridge to take that position when the comes on, but he seems to be slotted at the side to ensure Firmino can continue in the centre forward position...

      where he is fantastically opening up the play for the runners, driving forward balls, creating chances on a plate, and doing everything else he does so incredibly well. Did I miss anything?
      crouchinho
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #628: Aug 30, 2016 09:08:12 am
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #629: Aug 30, 2016 10:17:29 am
      We had TWO MEN running beyond their line specifically to exploit their high defence in Coutinho and especially Mané. And then Lallana pushing forward and Wijnaldum on occassion.

      It is literally the same tactics that destroyed Chelsea, City and the like last season. Were you in here moaning then? Like f**k you were.

      We carved them open on at least a half dozen occasions. 3 times a ball was overhit for Mané in the first half when he was in 30 yards of space. Remember their keeper flying out? Was that just me that saw it? Had Lallana or Hendo picked him out he'd have a hat trick.

      I mean, come on, mate. You don't need my word, just watch the game again.


      Coutinho isn't a player or runner of the last shoulder type and I'm struggling to recall where he broke through their back line with his pace into acres of space.

      Mane did it, yes. So what? Firmino didn't and he's the issue here in this discussion. Had we have had two genuine runners in behind their back line (similar to when we had a trio of Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling down there when we whacked them for 5) instead of  just Mane (and on the odd occasion Lallana who has the pace of an 80 yr old) we would have had more opportunity to exploit and punish them.

      The proof is in the pudding, we've been there before and annihilated their high defensive line with with a trio of attacks who run goal bound and are clinical.

      We came away from there with a point on Saturday because we NEVER exploited their back line as much as we have done in the past. You can bemoan the passes not finding the only runner you actually mentioned and it wasn't Firmino funnily enough, but had we have had an added one in Sturridge instead of Firmino; his starting position and movement would have been on the edge of their back line, unlike Firmino who's 10 yards deeper off their defensive line running around a lot earning himself superlatives.

      We only had the one target and runner, of course the passes have to be inch perfect with those odds. Add another one in their who's plyed his trade on those sorts of balls and runs and the odds of increasing that are two fold - which means we carry more threat in attack.

      Chelsea and Man. C are two different teams who required us to set-up differently, so of course I wasn't moaning to f**k when we got two good results against them last season. However, THIS season, I am moaning to f**k because we've used a defensive number 9, who has failed to register a goal in the league. And who was absolutely sh*t against Burnley as he simply doesn't have the attacking nous to lead and partake the attacking threat of a forward line like Sturridge does. And I bemoan the fact he was used again in a game, where pace and attacking instinct to play off the last shoulder against a well publicised high line in Spurs was deployed over a player who eats that sh*t up for breakfast.

      I, unlike you, clearly like my "strikers, attackers" call them what you will, to score you goals - you obviously don't, so long as they cover 20KM in a game, it's all gravy for you.

      The Stepford gengenpress kids have suddenly become well versed in this "philosophy", fact is, as has clearly and evidently already shown, this DOES NOT WORK for every team you come up against. And Burnley and Spurs more specifically ONLY highlight this.

      « Last Edit: Aug 30, 2016 10:33:02 am by Beerbelly »
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #630: Aug 30, 2016 10:20:16 am

      :lmao:

      Nice one, not that it's a surprise but to listen to him get slated on here continually and that pop up just really makes me laugh, cheers.
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #631: Aug 30, 2016 10:33:56 am
      :lmao:

      Nice one, not that it's a surprise but to listen to him get slated on here continually and that pop up just really makes me laugh, cheers.

      Agreed. I thought he was quality against Spurs. Absolute quality
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #632: Aug 30, 2016 10:39:28 am

      Nice stat.

      How about this one, 0 goals in three games.

      And contributed to an attack that has helped us achieve a paltry 4pts from 9.

      You see, it's all in the end product - and Bobby is a bit of a let down in that department more often than not.
      bigmick
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #633: Aug 30, 2016 10:57:27 am
      I'm not surprised in the least that Firmino has "created" more chances than anyone else in the league, it'd be odd if he hadn't to be honest. If his rolled 5yrd square pass to Coutinho on Saturday was the type of "creating" we're on about, of course he's the top dog!

      When you consider that in our three games we got four against Arsenal (from memory did Bobby have a hand in ANY of those, he may have crossed it for Lallana for the second I can't recall), we played Burnley and had 80% of the game, then played Tottenham and had plenty of it, I'd expect a centre forward who has no interest whatsoever in running in behind, little or no interest in getting in where it hurts, little interest in heading in a cross, to pass it to a couple of people who have a shot. When you further consider that one of those "others" is Coutinho who will shoot on smell never mind sight, it's not surprising that Bobby is top of the "chances created" charts.

      This discussion is beginning to resemble last seasons "points per game" one where people tangled themselves in all sorts of knots of silliness trying to pretend it was more important to be ahead in the "shots on goal/corners conceded/back heels" chart than it was to actually gain points in the league. Far be it for me to bring up the dreaded PPG stats again (don't worry I won't do it!) But the desperation with which people are making their case has a familiar look to it.

      We couldn't score a goal against Burnley FFS despite having 80% of the play! But yes, we have the most "creative" and deadly centre forward in the league  :lmao:. Dear oh dear.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #634: Aug 30, 2016 11:05:35 am

      Yeah and I had the chance to win the lottery and date a Supermodel. Comeback when he's actually put those chances away because without goals they are worthless.
      crouchinho
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #635: Aug 30, 2016 11:08:13 am
      Firmino didn't and he's the issue here in this discussion.

      BECAUSE THAT WASN'T HIS JOB.

      It wasn't his job on the weekend and it wasn't last season. If our aim was to control the ball and have someone move into channels and a presence in the box, Origi or Sturridge would've played. We clearly aimed to counter attack and exploit their high line. Which we did. You may not bloody see it but it's clear as F**k to everyone else. Firmino drops deep, creates the space and links it all together. That was his job and he did it. Just like the games against big teams last season.

      Pochettino even said this:

      “We played a team that played perfect counter-attack".

      And this was Michel Vorm's quotes after the game:

      “I think I made the most miles ever in a game!” said Vorm. “You practise to be ready for the balls behind. Obviously I don’t practise tackling but it can happen."

      "You expect something because we know they can play that way, with the balls in behind - with their speed up front and us playing a high line."

      The exact same tactics that have proven to be successful for this team.
      bigmick
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #636: Aug 30, 2016 11:09:43 am
      The next step in the Firmino debate is when he DOES actually have a stormer (which he will, he's a top player on his day) the distance covered studiers will say "see, I told you he was playing really well! He just scored two goals!".  :lmao:

      Much like in the PPG debate, when we eventually did briefly get over the mark of the previous "disgrace and disaster" season, they said "see, we CAN pick up points too, it's not just about back heels!".

      Mark my words, it's coming.

      Beerbelly
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #637: Aug 30, 2016 11:11:49 am
      Quote
      We couldn't score a goal against Burnley FFS despite having 80% of the play! But yes, we have the most "creative" and deadly centre forward in the league

       :lmao:

      crouchinho
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #638: Aug 30, 2016 11:12:46 am
      I'm not surprised in the least that Firmino has "created" more chances than anyone else in the league, it'd be odd if he hadn't to be honest. If his rolled 5yrd square pass to Coutinho on Saturday was the type of "creating" we're on about, of course he's the top dog!

      He found a pocket of space, had two men on him, wrong-footed both and ended up finding a pass to a teammate to put it on a plate.

      Yeah, F**k Firmino. Should've flicked it up and banged it in off his arse.

      You blokes would kick Emily Ratajkowski out of bed for burping.
      crouchinho
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #639: Aug 30, 2016 11:17:28 am
      I'm not surprised in the least that Firmino has "created" more chances than anyone else in the league, it'd be odd if he hadn't to be honest. If his rolled 5yrd square pass to Coutinho on Saturday was the type of "creating" we're on about, of course he's the top dog!

      When you consider that in our three games we got four against Arsenal (from memory did Bobby have a hand in ANY of those, he may have crossed it for Lallana for the second I can't recall), we played Burnley and had 80% of the game, then played Tottenham and had plenty of it, I'd expect a centre forward who has no interest whatsoever in running in behind, little or no interest in getting in where it hurts, little interest in heading in a cross, to pass it to a couple of people who have a shot. When you further consider that one of those "others" is Coutinho who will shoot on smell never mind sight, it's not surprising that Bobby is top of the "chances created" charts.

      This discussion is beginning to resemble last seasons "points per game" one where people tangled themselves in all sorts of knots of silliness trying to pretend it was more important to be ahead in the "shots on goal/corners conceded/back heels" chart than it was to actually gain points in the league. Far be it for me to bring up the dreaded PPG stats again (don't worry I won't do it!) But the desperation with which people are making their case has a familiar look to it.

      We couldn't score a goal against Burnley FFS despite having 80% of the play! But yes, we have the most "creative" and deadly centre forward in the league  :lmao:. Dear oh dear.

      Didn't you create this load of sh*t thread:

      The happy thread for hugging and being positive

      Lasted a F***ing fortnight, mate. Top job.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #640: Aug 30, 2016 11:17:30 am
      I doubt there would be so much negative bollocks if we had lost to Arse like most expected and beaten Burnley.

      But guess what we would still have had 4 points.

      Looks like as a fan base we have moved from being the most knowledgable to the most "negative".
      HScRed1
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #641: Aug 30, 2016 11:18:23 am
      Didn't you create this load of sh*t thread:

      The happy thread for hugging and being positive

      Lasted a f**king fortnight, mate. Top job.

      Usual culprits talking sh*t.

      bigmick
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #642: Aug 30, 2016 11:18:52 am
      If I played for us I'd just give it to Coutinho every time I got it. You  know he's going to shoot from anywhere. Pretty soon I'd be ahead of that pretender Mesut Ozil in the "chances created" charts. Simple game innit?
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #643: Aug 30, 2016 11:21:39 am
      BECAUSE THAT WASN'T HIS JOB.

      It wasn't his job on the weekend and it wasn't last season. If our aim was to control the ball and have someone move into channels and a presence in the box, Origi or Sturridge would've played. We clearly aimed to counter attack and exploit their high line. Which we did. You may not bloody see it but it's clear as f**k to everyone else. Firmino drops deep, creates the space and links it all together. That was his job and he did it. Just like the games against big teams last season.

      Pochettino even said this:

      “We played a team that played perfect counter-attack".

      And this was Michel Vorm's quotes after the game:

      “I think I made the most miles ever in a game!” said Vorm. “You practise to be ready for the balls behind. Obviously I don’t practise tackling but it can happen."

      "You expect something because we know they can play that way, with the balls in behind - with their speed up front and us playing a high line."

      The exact same tactics that have proven to be successful for this team.

      I know that wasn't his job, that's the problem Crouchinho - it should have been, but he doesn't have the attributes to do it.  :D

      Counter attack? Again, this isn't Firmino's game either and yet again Sturridge suites this better.

      You say, "Firmino drops deep and links it altogther" how is that counter attacking? So we require a forward to drop deep into an AM's position and link 'something' together. Nah, rubbish that. Your attack mids and midfielders need to do that, your forward line needs to go the other way.

      No wonder why we haven't scored from open play in 180mins with Bobby running back and "linking up"

      The only speed their manager was referring to was Mane's and that's what our "counter attack" centered round. Not a lot else.

      Look, I'm done with this, once Klopp realises he's flogging a dead horse playing Firmino up top against an array of styles week in week out, and reverts back to our most threatening striker as a focal point, then, I'm sure you'll then agree that it's the right thing to do.  :gt-happyup:
      « Last Edit: Aug 30, 2016 11:46:19 am by Beerbelly »

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