Martin Škrtel (Liverpool -> Fenerbahce)

I agree. He is a liability at times but at the same time he can have some really good games and be a rock at the back. I don't think it's fair to say that if he is a regular or part of a first choice pairing then we wont be competing because he was last season and we were competing.

His main problem is that for every couple of things he does well, he then follows it up with something crap. Confidence seems to be a major thing with him IMO; if he is having a good game then chances are a mistake wont follow but as soon as he makes a mistake it's like he is on edge for the rest of the game and sometimes he completely falls apart.

Agree.

It's the inconsistency but then all players become incositent at some point.

Big issue for me is that he doesn't seem to be the best fit for Lovren with the former being more of a calmer distributor, Martin's strenthgs lie in being a last ditch defender. Just so happened on the weekend our midfield and backs were very sluggish and he had to be more last ditch than normal.

Sorry guys but Im going to make this statement

If Skrtel is a regular in our team over the season we will not win the league and might struggle for top 4

Wow.

So not Mignolet or Lovren or Moreno or Manquillo: just Skrtel? I wonder why.

Sounds to me that you're getting the excuses in early mate and absolving all 'Brendan's signings' in advance. You seem to believe Brendan's bought the right defenders why don't you trust him to pick the right defenders?

I'll make a statement too: if we don't win the league it will be because we bought 'more of the same' and we haven't improved the starting XI. Deep down, most everyone knows that but they don't have the balls to say because it looks like 'treason' to question Brendan.

Much safer to look to blame the 'old guard'; Johnson, Agger, Lucas and now?... Skrtel ('cause, let's be honest, it looks like the others won't figure.) 

Wow.

So not Mignolet or Lovren or Moreno or Manquillo: just Skrtel? I wonder why.

No need to wonder Ill tell you

Mignolet is in his second season, in is firsth e had good and bad moments

The other 3 are new and have played 4 games between them

Skrtel is in to what his 7th season? And again has had good and bad moments but my opinion on him is based over years not games here and there

No need to wonder Ill tell you

Mignolet is in his second season, in is firsth e had good and bad moments

The other 3 are new and have played 4 games between them

So with all that inexperience they won't be to 'blame' if we don't win the league but Skrtel will or, more accurately; Brendan will for picking him? Dead on. 

You reckon that, if Brendan picks Skrtel regularly, we might struggle to finish in the top four. Yet last season without Lovren, Moreno & Manquillo (who, presumably are all better than what we had before) we finished runners up. That's daft beyond belief mate.

You want to 'blame' Skrtel, in advance, for any short-comings we might have which is weird at best and absurd at worst. Sadly you're making no sense in any shape or form.

If folk don't have the balls to say out loud that we didn't improve the starting XI and that's why they believe we won't win the league, fair enough but let's not 'blame' Skrtel, an 'easy' target, because Brendan didn't sign him.

It's too transparent; too obvious. 

Ok lets break it down

1) Has Martin Skrtel improved as a player over the last few seasons
2) Does he command his area verbally or physically
3) does he dominate enough aerial ball into the box
4) Does he create things from the back for us regularly
5) Does he show leadership considering he is one of the longest serving squad members
6) Does he learn from his mistakes?

Id answer no to all those. Now you can deflect by talking about players who barely know there way around the club the fact is were talking about the second most experienced player at the club (i think)

Now Sakho or Lovern might not be the answer but at least they deserve time to prove us wrong or right but Skrtel has been around the block at this point.

You could argue his full backs have let him down so maybe having better full backs and Lovern in there will help him, well see.

You reckon that, if Brendan picks Skrtel regularly, we might struggle to finish in the top four. Yet last season without Lovren, Moreno & Manquillo (who, presumably are all better than what we had before) we finished runners up. That's daft beyond belief mate.

I reckon only for our back 4 including Skrtel we would have won it

I reckon only for our back 4 including Skrtel we would have won it

Nah mate you've lost me. So back to what you said.

You reckoned (earlier) that if Brendan picks Skrtel regularly, we might not even make top four: yes?

Why? I mean; Brendan picked him last season and we finished top four - which puts paid to that theory. Now if Skrtel has proven he can play in a top four defence (more than once btw) and we have improved on last season, with our new signings... why would you reckon we will struggle this season?

It just doesn't make sense mate... unless, of course, you don't believe the signings are an improvement. In which case it's wrong to 'blame' Skrtel. 

I don't think Skrtel is a big problem. Not the greatest defender in the world but I think he'll form a good partnership with Lovren. Would prefer Sakho in the team personally.

Needs more games before we can judge how good he'll be with Lovren. Thought he was excellent against Southampton.

Why? I mean; Brendan picked him last season and we finished top four - which puts paid to that theory. Now if Skrtel has proven he can play in a top four defence (more than once btw) and we have improved on last season, with our new signings... why would you reckon we will struggle this season?

It just doesn't make sense mate... unless, of course, you don't believe the signings are an improvement. In which case it's wrong to 'blame' Skrtel. 

Well we made top 4 last season with Suarez, and we could have improved overall as a squad (not enough time to be sure of that), but that doesn't guarantee top 4, does it?

We could make 1 step forward from last season while our rivals make 2/3 steps forward and we would get left behind.

Which could happen as we still don't know the full impact that selling Suarez has on our team. Hard to be sure how the replacements will full his gab.

Plus bedding players in will cost us points in the short term.

Well we made top 4 last season with Suarez, and we could have improved overall as a squad (not enough time to be sure of that), but that doesn't guarantee top 4, does it?

Well being as how I'm not stupid; I'm going to say - no it doesn't.

There may be many, many, reasons (and a combination of many, many reasons) why we don't finish top four if we don't and that's the F***ing point.

To blame Skrtel, or any individual for that matter, in advance, for something that "might" happen is wrong. It's really that simple. I hope this clears that up. 

Nah mate you've lost me. So back to what you said.

You reckoned (earlier) that if Brendan picks Skrtel regularly, we might not even make top four: yes?

Why? I mean; Brendan picked him last season and we finished top four - which puts paid to that theory. Now if Skrtel has proven he can play in a top four defence (more than once btw) and we have improved on last season, with our new signings... why would you reckon we will struggle this season?

It just doesn't make sense mate... unless, of course, you don't believe the signings are an improvement. In which case it's wrong to 'blame' Skrtel. 

We have done very well in our transfers. Don't know why you would think id use Skrtel as a cover for not being happy with our signings. If you knew me you would know Id come out and say Im not happy with the signings. Same way Im coming out saying if Skrtel is a regular this season we wont win the title and may struggle to get top 4.

Im not an anorak fan so I don't have a little folder of clips showing Skrtels weaknesses and mistakes but in my opinion theres a few that are made regularly which is the worry at his age. Id love you or any one else to answer the 6 points I made above with a yes no answer just to see view people have on him

Maybe what he needs is a regular partner match in match out (Lovern, there was a bit of chopping around with Agger Toure and Sakho)  and 2 good full backs. He might have them now so maybe hell prove me wrong

For this to be true, Brian, you would be assuming one, or a combination, of these things;

1) We haven't improved our defence enough to make up for Skrtel's weaknesses,

2) Our signings have improved us significantly but Skrtel's weaknesses outweigh the improvement the new lads give us, OR

3) One of the above in conjunction with, those that finished outside the top 4 from last season have improved beyond the level we have by a considerable margin.

We don't really know the first two yet, and point 3 would be something I would think many disagree with.

I would argue it be Lovren who is more important to the success of our defence given the reasoning for his acquisition. If it is he that struggles to perform then we will be hurt more than Skrtel, as it is Lovren who is in charge of orchestrating the defence.

Like BBB, I too find it pretty ridiculous to base our season's success on one defender.

We have done very well in our transfers. Don't know why you would think id use Skrtel as a cover for not being happy with our signings.

Read my posts again it's all there and I don't know how to make it any simpler but just in case; I'll try again,

* Skrtel has been picked [very] regularly and played in a team which finished top four [runners up].

* If you are happy with the signings; if you are happy that they are an improvement and also know that Skrtel, picked regularly, played in a top two team... why the F**k would you now believe that we would finish outside top four?

It can't be that hard to understand surely?

Read my posts again it's all there and I don't know how to make it any simpler but just in case; I'll try again,

* Skrtel has been picked [very] regularly and played in a team which finished top four [runners up].

* If you are happy with the signings; if you are happy that they are an improvement and also know that Skrtel, picked regularly, played in a top two team... why the f**k would you now believe that we would finish outside top four?

It can't be that hard to understand surely?

Well see how he pans out over the season because were miles apart from even seeing the validity of each others points here

In your view he played in a team that was second last year so hes safe as houses. Yet I could argue he played in a team that finished 7th for seasons prior to that we could go on and on

In my view he will have good games and the odd great game. But he will still make the same mistakes hes made from day1 here. Mistime tackles. Be regularly beaten in the air and not dominate enough.

For this to be true, Brian, you would be assuming one, or a combination, of these things;

1) We haven't improved our defence enough to make up for Skrtel's weaknesses,

2) Our signings have improved us significantly but Skrtel's weaknesses outweigh the improvement the new lads give us, OR

3) One of the above in conjunction with, those that finished outside the top 4 from last season have improved beyond the level we have by a considerable margin.

We don't really know the first two yet, and point 3 would be something I would think many disagree with.

I would argue it be Lovren who is more important to the success of our defence given the reasoning for his acquisition. If it is he that struggles to perform then we will be hurt more than Skrtel, as it is Lovren who is in charge of orchestrating the defence.

Like BBB, I too find it pretty ridiculous to base our season's success on one defender.

My statement was based on the fact that I think Skrtels weaknesses have been there for a long time and at this point wont be ironed out. As Ive said twice now he may be offered better help by the new full backs and Lovern.. I just think in a season where I think the top will be tight that his inability to deal with certain situations might well cost us.

Id be more confident with Sakho and Lovern there and I wont apologise for that.

And ironically as were having this debate it looks like hes a big doubt for Sunday

Some excellent discussion above.

I don't think Skrtel and Lovren are the ideal partnership. I think they are both very similar players who don't read the game as well as they might but are both excellent at reacting to threats. In fairness to Skrtel, our right hand side was ripped apart against Citeh but all the goals came from our left.

Agger for me is the only CB we have that reads the game well, but he has other problems (physicality, injuries and switching off) but would be my personal choice to partner Lovren, at least until Sakho starts to repay some of the confidence others seem to have in him with better performances than we have seen up to now.

Sakho is the big question, going off last season, he is certainly no better than Skrtel or Agger, but he is younger (so may improve) and perhaps with a more vocal partner will keep his position a little better. I personally think that the reason he hasn't started the season beside Lovren is it would mean Lovren starting the season on his least favoured side (and you do want players to start well at a new club)  Skrtel has much more experience to help Lovren in these early stages and up to now Sakho has just not been that good.

My statement was based on the fact that I think Skrtels weaknesses have been there for a long time and at this point wont be ironed out. As Ive said twice now he may be offered better help by the new full backs and Lovern.. I just think in a season where I think the top will be tight that his inability to deal with certain situations might well cost us.

Id be more confident with Sakho and Lovern there and I wont apologise for that.

I agree with you about Sakho and Lovren, thats my preferred choice at the back.

But for us to struggle to make the top four, it would highlight a bigger problem than solely Skrtel. We've shown we can attack the F**k out of teams regardless how sh*t we defend. If we struggle to score goals then that's when our problems will arise.

Well see how he pans out over the season because were miles apart from even seeing the validity of each others points here

In your view he played in a team that was second last year so hes safe as houses.

No mate; you probably really do need to revisit everything which was written.

My view (which is quite simple) is; you have stated, very clearly, that if Brendan Rodgers picks Skrtel regularly we might fail to finish top four.

Now, given that he played him regularly last season and we did indeed finish 'top four', coupled with the fact that you believe Brendan has signed better players, to play alongside Martin and you have even less reason to believe that, with Skrtel playing, we won't finish top four.

Your "point" [blaming Skrtel, in advance, for something that might not happen] makes no sense.

In my view he will have good games and the odd great game. But he will still make the same mistakes hes made from day1 here. Mistime tackles. Be regularly beaten in the air and not dominate enough.

But your initial "view" was that we might not finish top four if Brendan makes the mistake of picking him regularly; again... you stated that very clearly.

If you are now changing your "view" to he's not good enough, to be picked regularly, that's totally different. You have moved on to a whole, new 'argument'. Let's look at that then... to my mind, although you may not agree, Brendan picks his team on merit: you're not good enough or don't show enough in training and you don't play.

So let's pretend Brendan finally sees the error in his ways Bri and from the Spurs match onward picks Lovren & Sakho [not a bad combo on paper, you believe]. He regularly plays them alongside Mignolet, Moreno & Manquillo. We still conceded goals and fucks forbid... we finish outside top four.

Who do you blame right now: which individual in the back five gets the rap, from you, right now?

Actually don't answer that because it would be F***ing daft to. Do you understand why it would be F***ing daft to answer that question now and not later Bri?

Exactly.   

I'll make a statement too: if we don't win the league it will be because we bought 'more of the same' and we haven't improved the starting XI.Deep down, most everyone knows that but they don't have the balls to say because it looks like 'treason' to question Brendan. 

If that is how you feel, just have the balls to say it without trying the psychological projection. Man up eh.

BBB

I simply made a prediction, in my opinion, Skrtel could make enough errors over the season that will cost us. No different to you predicting where we will finish in the league or predicting the result of the next match could be wrong could be miles off. Ok I understand you not getting why Im predicting it

Skrtel has made the same type of errors over his career here. He wont eradicate them now at this stage. Will Lovern make mistakes or Manquillo or Moreno? Yes of course, Moreno already has! But with Skrtel I fear that because he doesn't learn from his mistakes hell go on making them. Id be stunned if Moreno ever gets caught out again like he was Monday.

If you want we can assess him over each month to continue the debate on him when theres a few games under the belt. We could do that each month and have a review at the end of the season. If my prediction is off Ill put my hands up and Ill also make a donation to one of the charity's in Liverpool maybe Zoes place or one of the Hillsborough campaigns.   

Out for 3-4 weeks apparently.

Out for 3-4 weeks apparently.

Gone into hiding after reading me and BBB "discussing him" Seriously though if he is out he might find it hard to get back in.

Gone into hiding after reading me and BBB "discussing him"  Seriously though if he is out he might find it hard to get back in.

My thoughts exactly Brian! 

Up to Sakho to put a good shift in now isn't it.