Houllier v Benitez

Rafa la bamba is much better then the houllier chant 

Seriously tho I got turned off Houllier when he start making up crazy excuses after a defeat and quote mad stats to defend himself. Rafa all the way for me

I thought Gerard had taken us as far as he could with the funds made available to him. If Rafa was limited to the same funds, I don't think he would have done too much better, although I do think he is a tactical genius at times. As for his raotation policy, yes we did look fresher towards the later stages of the season and with less injuries than most. I still didn't allow us to make up the 12 or 15 points we had fell behind. With the increased funding he has had,  ( STILL NOT ENOUGHTHOUGH) and less rotation this year, thing have certainly improved.
I suspect we could be on the up. Rafa over Houllier then.

Rafa > Gerard. Gerard isnt exactly known as a master of anything really. Whatever flop Rafa has bought, Gerard covers him 2 to 1 but not only that, Houllier would not sell the flop. Gerard would never win a Champions League, never win the league in todays football an would certainly not be able to handle the sh*t from the Yanks. Also, in the transfer market, Rafa has sold those not good enough for a profit. Rafa is an all round manager, Houllier is not.

Go read 'Dynasty' if you want my full in-depth opinion on both managers, without people nitpicking between what I've said  

I also think it's harder now because of Chelsea - there has never been a team like them. They take up a place at the top of the table that once belonged to Arsenal or Liverpool. They've 'bought' that slot like someone buying real estate in Mayfair. Bob Paisley or Bill Shankly never had to face any team so much richer than Liverpool (and Houllier only had to for 10 months, before they had a top class manager), and again, these are all points analysed in length in Dynasty.

if you're that keen for us all to read 'dynasty'  (which i have heard is an excellent read btw, well done on that)  how about banging out a few copies to all members who have say (let me check!) over 450 posts!  there's a good lad 

 I thought they were just about on a par, both did a decent job. I don't count the Charity Shield or Super Cup as legitimate "trophies", so it's 4-2 on that score to Houllier. Both had lost the players by the time they left so it's even stevens there, both bought good and bad players (as all managers do) but I think Rafa's buys were by and large quite a lot better. I think Rafa was more astute tactically, and both managers allowed their individual egos to get the better of them.

 All in all despite the fact Houllier was more successful in terms of trophies, I think it was very close between them. If I was absolutely pushed for a decision I'd take Benitez back over Houllier though, but only by a fraction.

First European Cup for 20 years runners up in the league trumps all achivements since about 1990.

Benitez for me.
Champions League Winners.
Twice in the final in three years.
Brought us our highest league points.
With proper owners could have achieved so much more.
Both him and the club fu**ed over by Hicks and Gillett.

Oh and had us ranked Number 1 in Europe.

I'll never accept the maths that counts the UCL and the League Cup as the same.

 If Rafa had won any trophies with a team which was completely his (ie in the last four seasons he was at the club) I'd have ranked him higher than I do I think. The fact though that we won our trophies under him with the majority of the team being Houlliers does have an impact upon my feelings towards his tenure.

People should check both managers win rates, and then check it with Wengers and Ferguson first 6 years are their respective clubs, people might be surprised

Benitez pissed all over Ged for me, whilst I think Houllier was a good manager, Rafa was on another level tactically.

People should check both managers win rates, and then check it with Wengers and Ferguson first 6 years are their respective clubs, people might be surprised

 The day they start awarding trophies for "win rates" I will get very interested in them. I'll bet Man Utd fans are gutted that someones got a higher "win rate" than Ferguson. We should chant that at them the next time we play them, it'll get right under their skin that one.

 

So youd have preferred rafa prioritized the league cup ahead of the champions league, get F***ing real, do you know who owner us at the time

Benitez pissed all over Ged for me, whilst I think Houllier was a good manager, Rafa was on another level tactically.

 I agree with this for sure (not the pissing all over, but being better tactically). He did though have a habit in Cup finals of getting it spectactularly wrong from the outset. Sometimes we/Gerrard managed to extracate ourselves from the mire, but other times we didn't.

If Rafa had won any trophies with a team which was completely his (ie in the last four seasons he was at the club) I'd have ranked him higher than I do I think. The fact though that we won our trophies under him with the majority of the team being Houlliers does have an impact upon my feelings towards his tenure.

No Impact on mine as I believe the squad that finished second to united was stronger than the one he inherited from Houllier or any combination of his own signings and Houlliers.

If Rafa had won any trophies with a team which was completely his (ie in the last four seasons he was at the club) I'd have ranked him higher than I do I think. The fact though that we won our trophies under him with the majority of the team being Houlliers does have an impact upon my feelings towards his tenure.

Doesn't that just show Benitez was a better manager because he got more out of Houillers side.

 I agree with this for sure (not the pissing all over, but being better tactically). He did though have a habit in Cup finals of getting it spectactularly wrong from the outset. Sometimes we/Gerrard managed to extracate ourselves from the mire, but other times we didn't.

Mick your on a wind up here, you cannot hide your dislike of rafa which is sad, bringing Hamann on changed the champions league final as he nullified Kaka

So youd have preferred rafa prioritized the league cup ahead of the champions league, get f**king real, do you know who owner us at the time

 I don't think Kenny "prioritised" the League Cup this season over any trophy. It just so happens we won it. I'm not sure he "prioritised" the FA Cup either, but we might win it. In fairness to Houllier, the team he took over was never going to win trophies in Europe. Rafa took one over which won one in his first season (admittedly an incredible achievement from the manager). It also has to be said if we're being serious (and I say this knowing I'll drown in a river of mouth froth), that we were perhaps just a tad fortunate to prevail in that particular years Champions League.

Doesn't that just show Benitez was a better manager because he got more out of Houillers side.

He didn't get more out of Houlliers side, which makes me laugh when people suggest that Rafa won the Champions League with Houlliers side.

I mean lets be honest, its not as though Garcia, Alonso, Josemi and Nunez obviously never even played a single game in that Champions League campaign.

The fact though that we won our trophies under him with the majority of the team being Houlliers does have an impact upon my feelings towards his tenure.

It makes me like him even more. I don't think people realize how poor our UCL winning squad was. We just need to look at the course the careers of some of our European 'heroes' went just after winning it.

Djimi Traoré... most definitely one of the worst players to have won the UCL as a regular starter. How many players sign for Charlton Athletic just 1 year after being champions of Europe?
Milan Baros... Euro topscorer a few years before, never the player he was expected to be after that. An average striker at best. After Liverpool, played for Villa and Lyon without success, before going to a lesser league with Galatasaray.
Igor Biscan... an European champion that only attracted interest from Panathinaikos, now playing in Croatia.
Vladmir Smicer... left immediately after scoring a goal in the final, never to be even slightly relevant in world football again.
Harry Kewell... another one who failed to match the expectations after a big money transfer (when he wasn't injured).
Jerzy Dudek... a hero in Istanbul, but a keeper we could hardly rely on during the course of a season. It's not difficult to see why he became a professional bench warmer immediately after being a Champions League hero.

Rafa inherited a poor squad that had just lost one of it's very best players in Owen, so when people say "he was European champion with a Houllier squad", I say he must be a f***in genius then, cause Houllier could never do that himself with "his" squad (and that is ignoring just how key Alonso and Garcia were for bringing the trophy home, Garcia being our best player in the competition IMO).

Mick your on a wind up here, you cannot hide your dislike of rafa which is sad, bringing Hamann on changed the champions league final as he nullified Kaka

 I don't "dislike" Rafa in the least. You are absolutely correct as well, the bringing on Hamman (another Houllier signing obviously) did make a huge difference in the Champions League as we were 3-0 down at the time and it could concieveably have been much worse even than that. Kaka had been hugely influencial in the final up to that point. Given he was World player of the year at the time though, I must admit I wasn't massively surprised. Fortunately for us though, Gerrard scored one and got brought down for the penalty and we were able to turn it around. Tactical genius though? Not so clear cut as you seem to think in my opinion.

 I don't think Kenny "prioritised" the League Cup this season over any trophy. It just so happens we won it. I'm not sure he "prioritised" the FA Cup either, but we might win it. In fairness to Houllier, the team he took over was never going to win trophies in Europe. Rafa took one over which won one in his first season (admittedly an incredible achievement from the manager). It also has to be said if we're being serious (and I say this knowing I'll drown in a river of mouth froth), that we were perhaps just a tad fortunate to prevail in that particular years Champions League.

Of course we did, from the start kenny played the strongest team, you really need to go back and check who rafa played in league cup games. A Liverpool fan downplaying winning the Champions league in 2005 didnt think id ever see the like of it.

Whoever bumped this thread is only looking for a reaction

He didn't get more out of Houlliers side, which makes me laugh when people suggest that Rafa won the Champions League with Houlliers side.

I mean lets be honest, its not as though Garcia, Alonso, Josemi and Nunez obviously never even played a single game in that Champions League campaign.

 Garcia was a smashing little player and a great buy IMHO. He was influencial throughout that Champions League campaign. Alonso though hardly played, whilst Josemi and Nunez were with the greatest respect, mediocre players (and that's being kind).