Have Arsenal lost their top 4 status to Villa?

i think villa are now a better team, (they do have a very good but stubborn manager),

arsenal have lost the plot, they always give man u a good game though which is good for us.

who will replace arsenal in the top 4...... personally i think its between villa and everton..... what do you all think

its lit bit shocked to know the gunners big lost but i think their problem is one big thing to be solved..

i heard they have such an interpersonal problem inside club

They'll be fine in the top 4 IMO, but Villa will run them close

I wouldn't say they've lost it to Villa yet.

It's much too early to suggest they've lost it to them just yet. Although they are looking at a bad situation, no matter how much Wenger claims all is well!

Their players aren't strong enough to cope under pressure, a lot of them hate each other and one of their star players is out for a fair amount of time.

We should sign Walcott next summer! Perfect timing!

We should nick Fabregas from them and switch with Lucas. , afterall, Wenger is good with 21 year olds.

We should nick Fabregas from them and switch with Lucas. , afterall, Wenger is good with 21 year olds.

Fabregas and Walcott! That'd be a cracking summer!

We should nick Fabregas from them and switch with Lucas. , afterall, Wenger is good with 21 year olds.

Cesc will be back at Barca and if Arsenal did lose him then they are really in trouble because he is their team and without him they really are quite poor.

We should take him before he goes back after all we have a Spanish armada!

No i don't think that Arsenal have lost it, they going through a bad patch as all other teams do. And they to much strength in depth to give it up to Villa.

As it stands, Villa are currently 4th with Arsenal coming up against Chelsea next. Villa have shown that they can get points, and results, against the Big 4. I feel that right now, the Big 4 no longer exists, and has turned in to the Big 3.

Villa aren't yet good enough to break into the "top four" teams, it's just that Arsenal have imploded.

People said the same thing about us when we finished 5th, it is too early to write them off yet. Only time will tell, but if they get rid of Wenger I doubt they will stay in the top 4.

No they have not los their status to Villa yet...they are going through a rough patch I am sure Wenger is experienced enough to see them through and they will be firmly in the top 4 soemwhere come the end of the season

We have finished outside top 4 before and if we are in the top 4 too, we were the 4th and people don't write us off because we have always been a big 4 and will always be. Same as Arsenal. They're one of a kind but haven't been getting results they'd want.

No way, they'll come good...they're a very good side.

On the weekend they had Adebayor, Fabregas, Gallas and Walcott out...imagine how we would go with 4 of our best players out. We struggled to get a goal against Fulham, without Stevie G. 

I know that's only one game but I don't recall them having their best 11 out on the park anytime recently.

Personally, I think the inexperience of the Arsenal players results in underestimating 'weaker' opposition like fulham and Hull to an extent. Fabregas has been named their captain so maybe they can come back.

It's too soon to say they've lost it. Bad run of results doesn't make them a non top 4 straightaway. Even we wen on an 11 games win-less streak, didn't we?

Aston Villa are the closest to the big 4 but need a few more years to make them a member.

 I agree with what most are saying, its too early to write them off, to be honest I wouldn`t want them to drop down to far and start losing players, you have to admit it ... they do play some real pretty football

I still rate Arsenal as a great team & they have a brilliant manager in Wenger. Villa still have a long way to go before they can even think of replacing Arsenal in the Big 4. Arsenal's going through a slump but they'll get through that, no doubt!

They will be there or there about by the end of the season
The way the rest of us are dropping points lately it is going to be a very close season

7 points from the big three is good for them, that's what we got! However their other games have not been the best! So I'm thinking that they will probably drop to 5th this season, especially since Aston Vanilla are doing so well this season!

I'd love to see Walcott in a proper red shirt next season and I reckon he would join us seeing as he supports The Mighty Reds! Get him signed Rafa!

What is the news on Cesc?

If he is out for a long period of time they could be really trouble

What is the news on Cesc?

Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger fears he could be without captain Cesc Fabregas for up to three weeks after he picked up a knee injury against Liverpool.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/7794770.stm

They now haven't really got any creative players in centre midfield, maybe Denilson, but he isn't half the player Cesc is.

Surely you gest.  Nasri is more creative than any of LFC mids.

Surely you gest.  Nasri is more creative than any of LFC mids.

Yeah if you say so. So Gerrard has no creativity about him whatsoever? Or Alonso?

They're both more creative than Nasri.

Yeah if you say so. So Gerrard has no creativity about him whatsoever? Or Alonso?

They're both more creative than Nasri.

Gerrard yes, Alonso no.

What we actually need is the die hard spirit of arsenal . our players need to play till death do us part .we got the players its just that every now and then they need a wake up call. maybe through the second half or every 15 minutes rafa should get himself a loudspeaker, and lift the team spirit up reminding the players of no 19.

Gerrard yes, Alonso no.

Benayoun is also very creative.

I dont think that Arsenal have lost their top 4 status to Villa yet because in order for them to do that I believe that Villa would have to get in the Champions League for a couple of times in a row. I think tht because people could say that we lost our top 4 status to Everton the year in which they came 4th but in the next season we finished a long way ahead of them which goes to show that the chances are it was just by fluke that they got 4th. Arsenal always finish in the top 4 so just because they miss out on it one season does'nt mean they have lost their status IMO.

However, I believe that Villa do have the quality to claim top 4 stauts providing they keep Arsenal out of the top 4 for the next few seasons.

For Example, Spurs came close to keeping Arsenal out of the top 4 on 2 consecutive seasons but were pipped to it by Arsenal at the last minute in each of them. Now look at Spurs, they are way down the table and for al we know that could happen to Villa in a few seasons so thats why i think it's too early to call them part of the top 4.

(if that makes sense )

KK7, I agree with you, but things aren't rosey for the Arsenal as the stinking rich Arabs will probably have a say in the coming seasons.  Villa are there at the moment, but I do think at the end of the day over the next few seasons Man City will claim one of them spots as money will have a big say.

In my opinion, Keane, Stevie, Xabi and Benayoun are creative players.

Morning all.

May I please add my two cent's worth?

Arsenal are struggling.  Of that there is no doubt.  Personally I think we've got the weakest squad we've had in years.  And it pisses me off that AW keeps spewing out that these boys will come good.  But he ain't exactly gonna say otherwise and say they're not good enough, is he?  Name me a manager that will.
Yeah, Aston Villa are 3rd atm, but they have to be able to put a run  of 6,7,8 wins together to get the consistency.  I believe we'll pip them at the end of the season.  But it might be close.
As for Scouse getting Cesc and TW, you've got more chance of poaching a Toffee boy. 
Oh yeah, silly me you've already done that when you got Steeeeeevie G....

I did say in an earlier post that Arsenal will come good and finish in the top 4 because Wenger has the premiership experience to do so. I expect him to purchase a few players now in January that will boost his chances of doing some. What I am tired off though is the whiny Frenchmans persistance to tell us all that he's baby gunners are capable of winning big trophies. On top of that my gooner friend Fabregas your best ever "youth" product plied his trade at Barcelona not like Wenger drove to some F***ing remote village in Iruna and picked up a village kid and turned him into a Fabregas. He purchased an allready quality youngster, just like he did in Walctott and Ramsay for over 15 million each, that is the latter 2.

Secondly how many of these so called youngsters Fabregas and Flamini aside have turned into world beat players?? I do recall a certain Jermaine Pennant being purchased by AW for a sh*t load when he was a young lad and look at what he did at Arsenal umm F**k all. Go back to the last time you guys won the title or that year you had your 49 game unbeaten run. You had possibly the world 11 in your side, the back bone of the French WC and Euro winning team plus Bergkamp an WC winner in Edu to name a few. How many of these players were so called products of your youth system??? I am just fed up with hearing this Arsenal youth, baby gunners and sh*t like that AW will have to admit his stubborness this winter and throw that out the window by purchasing a few experienced players.

Losing fabregas for four months is going to be big blow for Arsene!

Arsenal's current team are not products of their own academy. Fabregas from Barcelona, Walcott from Southampton, Nasri from Marseille and Ramsey from Cardiff City. Those were brought in from outside. Only the players like Jack Wilshere, Jay Simpson are products and they don't play in the premier league or champions league.

And if you think about it, Arsenal's team are not all that young. You can say their midfielders are young(Cesc, Samir , Denilson and Theo) but their defenders and goal keepers aren't really young. Adebayor and Van Persie are around Torres' age. The defenders are around almost mid twenties and some over thirties. Well, Isn't Agger, Insua and Arbeloa around there too?

So , their thing about young team shouldn't be a reason anymore.

Wow! When did this turn into a thread about our young players and youth academy? I'm quite sure i never alluded to that.
(I could mention Wilshere, Troare, Gibbs, Hoyte, Randall and Simpson as academy players who are coming through, but that's just me being petty.) 
Thought the question was "Have Arsenal lost their top 4 status?"

As said, it'll be tough especially with Cesc out for 4 months but we'll just have to deal with it.  No-one knows whether AW will spend (which he's not really given to) or stick with this lot?
My guess is he'll bring in either a CB or DM to try and bolster what we have and keep Vanilla out of 4th place.

And as Ad said we aren't the youngest squad in the Prem, Boro I think hold that accolade.  But the problem is we don't have enough proven winners in the squad.

No it didnt mate but look at the main points in my post and it is a valid reason why Arsenal is strugglig. Wenger miscalculated the ability of his youngsters and put his pride and stubborness ahead of overall benefit for the club. He sold 2 of his best players from last season in Hleb and Flamini thinking his young lads had the bottle to take the team somewhere this year. Now with Cesc out for so long you dont have the depth to compete with Villa at present lucky for you the transfer market is around the corner.

I went in to the whole youth debate because in the thread "Have Arsenal lost their top 4 status to Villa" you decided to dwelve on us stealing Gerrard from Everton. You should really not be a gobs***e and spend some time on informing your self on that before mouthing off.

Now, now, Dado if you bother to read the previous page(s) someone decided to say Scouse should take Cesc & Theo.  I was just making the point that your lot are good at poaching the young e.g. Steeeeevie G.
Twas not I who started the thing about our young players.
It was just a reminder to those of you who might've forgotten.
Maybe you should remind some of your guys to stick to the topic.  Only a suggestion, mind...

But you're right, AW didn't replace Flamoney or Gilberto.  In fact it could be argued he never replaced PV4, nor do we have a no-nonsence CB.  That is the bigger travesty amongst us Gunners.

My my lad are all you gooners like this... I thought i had a little bit  more time for you fellas then Scum, Chelsea and the blue sh*te but that ridicolous crooning and booing on the weekend toppled with your comments is fast making me change my mind. Your booing of Eboue was a class act by the way watching him walk off sobbing gave me goose bumps i really felt sorry for the lad where are your souls going to go??

Poaching we did not poach Gerrard from anybody as I said look it up and even if we did poach someone from somewhere we didnt do it with bags of money. Eg Fabregas, Walcot, Ramsay, Pennant.

I do agree though your defence does look frail compared to last year Toure was arguably the best CB in the league prior to the African cup ever since then he is gone sh*t house. Clichy is a shadow of himself I am still puzzled though why play a slow djorou and leave an experience Sylvestre on the bench??

Dado, when we poach we do it for pittance, and we'd never poach from Tottscum!

As for our defence you're spot on, Kolo is a shadow of himself, Clichy keeps making rickets but he's one of the best LBs in the world and i'm sure you'd swap him for Dossena if hell ever froze over!
Tweety (Silvestre) is an embarressment and I don't know what AW was doing when he signed him.   
As for the "supporters" booing Eboue it was a fickn disgrace   It's symptomatic of what happens when you move to a new stadium and iincrease ticket prices which marginalise the real supporters and allow the hooray Henry's and Hugo's to come in.
There's alot of "new fans" going to games these days.  The one's who cannot and do not know what patience is.  That lot don't encourage the team when they need geeing up but are quick to ostracise a player who came back from 5 weeks out, and was asked to play in an unfamiliar position.
My older cousin made a point that we went 18 years without a league title between 71-89, and I really wouldn't mind if we went a few more without so we can weed out the fairweather/transient/gloryhunters who've infested our club.  And there are many proper supporters who think the same.

Rant over.

Heh never from Tottscum ey!

Certain Sol Campbell spring to mind at all???

Anyways lad on the supporters point you make an interesting one we seem to have the same problem with ticket prices pushing out the true fans!

Anyways my bickering is done for the evening im off to bed

Erm, we never poached Sol, he came to us when his contract finished.

Beware the fairweather fan!

Later Dado.

Sorry Mainsauce just read your top post about Gerrard,

are you fully aware of that story, read his autobiography at all! No don't think you have, Steven is a red always has been, he wasn't poached from Everton as a youngster - if that is what you are trying to insinuate.

That photo above is because one of his family members (who's a blue) entered him into a competition, he won and had his photo taken (as shown above) read about his thoughts of what his dad would do to him if he would of found out at the time, again available in his autobiography.

Plus unlike your lot and the spurs fans, around 87/88 we had boss Derby day atmospheres, much better than now, and we actually got on as supporters on both sides, again unlike now.

As for the "supporters" booing Eboue it was a fickn disgrace   It's symptomatic of what happens when you move to a new stadium and iincrease ticket prices which marginalise the real supporters and allow the hooray Henry's and Hugo's to come in.
There's alot of "new fans" going to games these days.  The one's who cannot and do not know what patience is.  That lot don't encourage the team when they need geeing up but are quick to ostracise a player who came back from 5 weeks out, and was asked to play in an unfamiliar position.
 

Their called the sky generation and Andy Gray is their Leader!

Dado, when we poach we do it for pittance

Jermaine Pennant?

Wiki quote "Pennant was signed at the age of 15 by Arsenal from Notts County for £2 million, a record fee for a trainee at the time".

Theo Walcott?

Another Wiki quote "Ultimately Walcott signed for Arsenal in January 2006 for an initial fee of £5m rising to a possible £12m[8] based on appearances for club and country, making him the most expensive 16 year old in the history of British football".

Pittance?  I don't think so.

What a sad day for football this is, you expect your club to come back when they know that if they make a mistake, and who in this world hasnt made a bad one, they will get that treatment. For that performance, i hope Arsenal fail to make it into Europe let alone lose their top 4 spot. Pittiful. I'm not blaming you personally but your so called fans.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=L0Ntn6moW1s

That Eboue nonsense is a disgrace. I'm ashamed to be of the same race as these f*ckers.
Also, Steven Gerrard has never been from the blue half of Merseyside. Read the autobiography.

themainsauce

You are going on as if we poached Stevie from Everton, he was never at the Everton academy.  So what if he wore an Everton kit, so did Carragher and Owen, Does'nt mean they played for them.  So to say we poached from Everton is just bollocks. Oh and you do poach from Tottscum, remember Campbell? and to say you poach for pittance is also bollocks as you paid a lot for Walcott. At least we play our youngstrs when they are ready and don't put our top 4 status at risk.

Rant over


Even though Fabregas is out for 4 months I am still sticking to what I said, if Arsenal dont finish in the top 4 this season I still think they have the top 4 status for at least another season or 2.

"I'm ashamed to be of the same race as these f*ckers."

"What a sad day for football this is, you expect your club to come back when they know that if they make a mistake, and who in this world hasnt made a bad one, they will get that treatment. For that performance, I hope Arsenal fail to make it into Europe let alone lose their top 4 spot. Pittiful. I'm not blaming you personally but your so called fans."

"Disgrace", "Pitiful"

Case of pot... kettle... black.... methinks...

"I'm ashamed to be of the same race as these f*ckers."

"What a sad day for football this is, you expect your club to come back when they know that if they make a mistake, and who in this world hasnt made a bad one, they will get that treatment. For that performance, I hope Arsenal fail to make it into Europe let alone lose their top 4 spot. Pittiful. I'm not blaming you personally but your so called fans."

"Disgrace", "Pitiful"

Case of pot... kettle... black.... methinks...

Surely with you on this thread it should be renamed:

Have Arsenal lost all sense of pride and dignity?

Benayoun is also very creative.

Yea got it all, thats why LFC is on top the premier league, no need for improvement at any position.

Yea got it all, thats why LFC is on top the premier league, no need for improvement at any position.

Take a look at his setup for Torres vs Chelsea in the CL Semi's.

Also take a look at his flick-on to Gerrard vs Hull. He can take his man on, he has a bit of pace, he knows how to use his feet.

Jeez, stop arguing with me at every turn, you're becoming a pest.

Surely with you on this thread it should be renamed:

Have Arsenal lost all sense of pride and dignity?

Amen to that.

I personally believe that it maybe a very similar situation to when we finished 5th behind Ev**ton in 2005. I think Arsenal might have a few decent cup runs, but it will end up costing them a Champions League spot next season. I do think, however, that they'll quite easily regain that top 4 status next year, just like we did.

Arsenal look alright till the other team starts battling.

Villa good comeback and wenger should be asked about their chances of finishing fourth, rather than whether they can still win the league!

Notice the mainsauce hasn't been on - he will be quiet this week methinks!

Arsenal look alright till the other team starts battling.

Villa good comeback and wenger should be asked about their chances of finishing fourth, rather than whether they can still win the league!

Notice the mainsauce hasn't been on - he will be quiet this week methinks!

Or this season :

Unless Wenger buys someone thats out of pre-school then Villa have it covered.

MON hasnt bought the best but they have that bit of experience to go with their talents and we're seeing the benefits.

Zat Knight, Reo-coker, Milner, Luke Young, not the best but they know what the league is about. I think Wenger should look to do the same or if not, atleast buy someone with experience in a top league anywhere.

They need a strong centre mid and better keeper but how many of there are under the age of 25? Expect him to give me a call and put my future nephew on their waiting list to be snapped up.

His job is dependant on his January dealings IMO. If he buys a few key, stronger, OLDER players then i think they'll emerge and finish in the top 4.

i should have name this thread ...will villa finish above arsenal and chelsea

but

point proven already i think.

It's great to finally have another club, in my opinion, genuinely challenge the top 4, and the consistency they've shown this season really does impress me.

Where is mainsauce the pr**k now??

Hiding under his rock?? The tw*t was ever so quick to jump on here and give us sh*t after the Wigan game. Failed to see him after Chelsea and last night.

I am sure he is some deluded kid with a lot of time on his hands.

Well if you come here take note its a 10 point gap now lad I  strongly believe with Arsenal's latest performances the blue sh*t will over take you.

If only Modric buried that last minute chance.

Where is mainsauce the pr**k now??

He got banned for being annoying just after the FA Cup defeat.

Aha excellent!

Arsenal are falling apart. Good result against Cardif today tho. Eduardo is back too

Nice to see Eduardo back after his horrific injury.

It was nice to see Eduardo back. And for him to score two goals after the horrific injury was great.

Well in ladies it was nice to see him back and for him to bag a double in typical Eduardo style.

I think now with his return and Fabregas's, Rosicky's and Walcott's looming they will pose a genuine challenge for the 4th spot and pose a general threat in the CL.

They are definately not done with yet taking in to consideration their injuries to key players. I think they have shown good character to still be in it when they could have lost the plot, good luck to them in hunting down Villa.

Call me whatever you want but i hope no one breaks the top 4 in the near future. If Villa can get in to the Champions League then player prices will sky rocket if clubs in the 'Top 4' were to want a player from lower clubs.