Sticking to Our Guns

Generally as we've entered the transfer period over the last couple of seasons, I've experienced the usual feels of hope and excitement about who we might sign. That being said, I've also felt a certain amount of stress about other clubs who might try to take our better players away from us.

We all know that no player is bigger than the club, anyone can be replaced. Not necessarily like for like, or even of an equal standard, but the club will carry on regardless and we trust in the manager to make the best out of every situation.

That being said, some players are undoubtedly harder to replace than others, and we know if we were to lose any members of the spine of the team then we would be hard pressed in the short term to find someone to take their place. Not only that, but unless your surname happens to be Torres and you find yourself joining the club where your footballing soulmate Gerrard is waiting for you, there is usually an adaptation period that is more or less lengthy.

After our solid title push last season, and our fantastic European record since Rafa has been in charge, this summer more than ever our players have been the target of other big clubs. What has been both pleasant and refreshing, however, is the stance we have taken under this assault.

Whether it be Rick Parry's departure, the added powers in the smallprint of Rafa's new contract, or more likely a combination of the two, our stoic refusal to buckle under the pressure of the repeated interest in our players gives me confidence we'll come out next season stronger than ever.

Rafa's adamant dismissal of offers for Alonso and Mascherano and refusal to reduce our asking prices is a deterrant, and a very powerful one. Real seem to be under the impression that we are trying to milk money out of them, but I feel strongly that this is not the case, and the massive sums we are asking are not in the hope of receiving such an offer, but simply that we don't want anyone to match the offer!

Let's hope we can continue sticking to our guns and not back down. Rafa's telling Europe and fans alike that he's serious, that we are not to be messed with, and that in the next few years we are ready to conquer!

Good post there Aryton.

It can become much harder to replace a player(s) that are part of the spine of the side the longer the player(s) have been at the club and playing with the other players that make up that spine. Looking at Alonso and Mascherano, they've been playing the likes of Reina, Agger, Carragher, Gerrard, Kuyt, and Torres for the best part of three years. In Alonso, Gerrard, Reina and Kuyt's case its the best part of five years.

Those players have really settled together and know each others games pretty much to a tee. That really showed last season, particularly the back end of last season. We began dominating teams for 90 minutes like we know we can.

So like you say it's extremely important we stick to our guns. If we do and we keep hold of the players that make up out spine I would be willing to wager that we'll beat our record points tally last season.

IF Alonso and/or Masch want to leave, and Rafa is trying to get milk as much money out of Real and Barca for them, then I think we should bring in two fairly young midfield players (around 22-25) so they have the time to settle on the formation and learn our other players style of play before they hit their real primes.

We should have done this years ago instead of always getting raped over by other clubs, well done Rafa...about bloody time. £3m for Arbeloa, £20m for Alonso, £25m for Masch...get stuffed, they still see LFC as an easy touch in the market but hopefully not anymore.

unity is the key to our title this season,we have to keep all our player's for at least one more season,rafa is well aware we are in touching distance for the title,so sticking to his gun's is the best policy for every one involved.
if alonso and masch decide to move they will only be allowed to do so next season when the replacement's are in place.
well done gafa tell real,barca,alonso and masch to F**k off and wait till next season.

Just looking to give another side to the argument but have we had to stick to our guns?

I can't remember hearing that either Barca or Real have actually made a bid that we've turned down. It'd be much easier to see just how resilient we are when bids of 20-25 million start coming in. At the moment it's all hearsay and press rumours rather than concrete bids that we've refused. So while no bids are being made, we can make out that we won't accept this, that and the other but we haven't yet proved it, in my opinion.

Just looking to give another side to the argument but have we had to stick to our guns?

Look at it this way, no-one has forced Rafa to come out and stick large price-tags on these players' heads.

I don't doubt that the issue has been typically inflated by the press, but the club has repeatedly come out with the same valuations of our players. Whether or not an offer has been officially tabled, our position on the matter has remained unchanged.

while no bids are being made, we can make out that we won't accept this, that and the other but we haven't yet proved it, in my opinion.

It's a possibility, but I for one would be very surprised to see us accept an offer of £20 million for a player with three years or so remaining on his contract, when we've asked £35 million.

The team is already in place, we're not desperate to sign new players. We are playing hardball, and rightly so, as we have no reason to sell, especially not for half a player is worth.

It's important that Rafa sends out the right signals to these clubs that the days of letting players out on the cheap are over.

Might stop them knocking on the door next time with stupid offers.

The other thing about Benitez is that where possible he doesn't let players get to the stage of having a year left on their contract.  The vast majority of our decent players have long contracts which ensures we get the maximum back.  Something Rick Parry, in previous years, failed miserably at doing - you only have to look at the Steven Gerrard debacle to highlight the inefficiency of our former Chief Exec.

Look at it this way, no-one has forced Rafa to come out and stick large price-tags on these players' heads.

I don't doubt that the issue has been typically inflated by the press, but the club has repeatedly come out with the same valuations of our players. Whether or not an offer has been officially tabled, our position on the matter has remained unchanged.

I understand that mate, but what I'm saying is our position on the matter is much easier to remain unchanged while no bids are being made. When, or rather if, a bid is made it'll test our resolve much more. That, for me, is when we'll see just how strong we are on our transfers.

Obviously we won't buckle under the pressure of an embarrassing bid of somewhere about 15 million. But double that and then we'll know if or not we are up to standing strong, especially since both Xabi and Masch have hinted, quite strongly, that they wish to play in Spain.

The other thing about Benitez is that where possible he doesn't let players get to the stage of having a year left on their contract.  The vast majority of our decent players have long contracts which ensures we get the maximum back.  Something Rick Parry, in previous years, failed miserably at doing - you only have to look at the Steven Gerrard debacle to highlight the inefficiency of our former Chief Exec.

Things already look far improved on that front.

He's even even giving one year extensions when a player has three years left, and that's the kind of attention to detail and efficiency we need behind the scenes. In the event that a player really does want to leave and there's no holding him back, we won't be getting pennies for him, but instead the correct amount to get in a decent replacement.

The only exception is when a player wants to go.

They want a divorce.

Their head has been turned.

Then get the maximum and show them the door.

(What should have happened with Owen and Macca)

To a certain extent I disagree with DLS as having read Marca and knowing the actual interview regarding real Madrid having put bids in for Alonso but not being able to match our valuation is on Marca on Video for all to watch. So basically there is where my disagreement comes in as Real Madrid have openly come out and said they have placed concrete bids that have been knocked back and that they are reluctant to meet our Valuation of the player and that they would be looking at alternatives. This again could be a poker face by Real hoping Rafa will sweat on the offer and eventually crack as he's thinking if they do manage to sign another player then the sale of Alonso will be lost. I think Rafa is a wiser man than that and he is determined to keep the spine of our team together and the transfer valuations he has placed on our players reflect that.

Heres where I agree with DLS we have not yet received anything concrete from Barcelona regarding Mascherano although it is rumored in Marca that 35 million euro's bid is imminent. So having said that we have not yet received anything concrete from Barcelona at the moment we can not take any heart from knowing Rafa is rejecting offers for the player, the only thing we can take heart from is the fact that Rafa stated the player was not for sale at any price.

Obviously in both cases both players have openly flirted with the idea of joining both the interested clubs for reasons unknown, maybe it is genuine and both players want out if thats the case and the interested parties meet the valuation's placed on their heads by Rafa. If this is the case sorry to say it but thanks for the memories lads Liverpool will move on. If it just transpires to be making a lot of noises for wage increases I.E Masch been on a low wage and Xabi and his new tax rule then I'm sure in both cases this will be sorted out when they return to Anfield.

I will say from the noises coming from Real Madrid at the moment it looks to me like Rafa has dug his heels in and he is not going to budge but as I have said in a previous post we may have won that battle but maybe not the war as its a long time until the the transfer window is closed and anything can happen between then and now, maybe Rafa will crumble maybe Real will match Rafa's valuation who knows ?

I'm optimistic as I am sure a lot of you will be that the club have took such a stance and it can only send out the right messages to players who think they can flirt their way to a new club via the media and also to any clubs who think they can just steal our players for a fraction of their value, looking at it from a whole as things now are the futures looking bright for LFC.

Top topic Ayrton77,

I too think Rafa is in full control of the situation, he's not stupid and he knows exactly how much those two are worth to our success this season and the following seasons. I get the feeling he's going to keep them even if they really want to leave. Then when he has enough time during the season to think about and find a replacement worthy enough, he might let one of them go for a higher price.

One thing I am not happy about is that the other week Masch is going on about how it is important to keep our best players and then the next week his agent is apparently lining up a deal with Barca?!

Silly season sends the nerves flying...

To a certain extent I disagree with DLS

No point reading past this statement, if a post opens with this then the rest must of it be bollocks

Seriously though mate, I didn't know Madrid had offered anything for Xabi. Certainly haven't heard anything from Liverpool to say we've rejected a bid which I think would be the smart thing to do to show the fans that we are holding onto our players. Alls I've heard is Madrid aren't, at this moment, prepared to cough up as much as we're asking.

Personally I think it's both clubs trying to undermine the other. We slap £50 million on Xabi's head knowing Madrid won't pay that much, but also gives us a lot of room for negotiating while Madrid offer a small figure knowing we won't accept it but again gives them room for negotiations. That way both clubs meet somewhere in the middle around 25-30 million, which both clubs would be happy with.

But I still don't think we'd reject every bid that comes in for either, especially after both have made their interests known. We may stand our ground on smallish bids, that's only to be expected even with Liverpool. But if a serious bid comes in, that's when we'll know just how strong we are in the transfer market this year.

This is taken from the Liverpool Echo

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2009/07/08/reds-land-french-starlet-100252-24104512/

Meanwhile, Real Madrid are continuing to play cat and mouse with Liverpool over Xabi Alonso.

Real president Fiorentino Perez is desperate to make Alonso his latest big name signing at the Bernabeu but with Benitez adamant that his midfield playmaker is not for sale Real sporting director Jorge Valdano has admitted the Spanish giants may be priced out of a move for the 27-year-old.

“Liverpool have adopted a position that is making it very difficult for us and right now we can see ourselves distancing ourselves from the player,” said Valdano.

“There are people who are a little bit mistaken when they speak with Real Madrid.

“When we ask after a player they think it is a great economic opportunity and they go beyond what is reasonable.

“We are looking at alternatives to Xabi. He is great at distributing the ball and we need someone who runs the game but there are very few players in the world who can do what he does.”

Valdano’s comments will cut little ice with Benitez whose relationship with Real’s sporting director is difficult at best.

In the absence of any formal indication from Alonso that he would like to quit Anfield then Liverpool will not be compelled to sell no matter how much pressure Real put them under as the Spanish international still has three years remaining on his contract.

So unless Alonso puts in a transfer request or Real make the Reds an offer they cannot refuse the player will stay.

Top post Ayrton.

We can only applaud Rafa for the way it is being handled now. Even Valdano's comments above "There are people who are a little bit mistaken when they speak with Real Madrid." would suggest offers were made behind the scenes that were brushed away by Rafa. A club like Madrid is not used to such rejection and opposition when it comes to dealing with transfers and in partocular Spanish players. I would go on record and say that Lyon buckled under such pressure in the Benzema transfer.

If Rafa maintains this stance we will have what was in plan years ago and ready to be executed next season bringing us much awaited league glory.

Only Rafa, Alonso and Mascher know the true motivation behind these rumours. If the players are being tapped up or alternately if they have personal reasons for wanting to leave I still applaud Rafa's stance against Madrid,s so called offers and Barca's rumoured intentions.To my thinking, he is putting the interests of Liverpool Football Cub above everything else - well in Rafa.Another thing, if the worst comes to the worst and we have to lose one or both,I'm convinced that Rafa would have suitable replacement(s) signed up before allowing them to leave. Either way with Rafa in control of things we won't lose out. IRWT

Good post this ! like everyone else i'm getting a bit tired of the transfer situation , a reported £ 3million for Arby? bet he really want to go there knowing they value him so highly Rafa's taken the best option i feel by trying to get his players to sign new or extended contracts ,if they sign up then he knows who they pledge their allegiance to , might be a good idea for teams to say who exactly can be transferred instead of creating a state of ill feeling and unrest .having said that i really hope Xabi and Masch stay and give the finger to Real !

I think that once again the football world instead of looking up their own backsides are taking us seriously again.So all this speculation is not going to go away, and it's not all the player's fault.Their agent's are opportunists who should be castrated at dawn, the clubs need to take a firm stance on transfer/wage policy to give the managers a chance, but as usual, the governing body(premier league) need to develop some bollocks to stop wrong ownership of clubs for the good of the game rather than for self interest. I for one welcome Wolves into the comp. because of the passion of their supporters, but I fear for their demise because of the system, not their'e management. This is a sad state of football.

Good reading Ayrton. I have previously posted this elsewhere but in my opinion, if we are intent on 'Sticking to our guns' then every time either Real or Barca release a statement regarding our players, (and how much they want them), our valuation of them should increase.

Well in, Ayrton. A top post mate.

I think Rafa has got to the stage where he knows we dont need to sell anymore. Before, i got the feeling that any good offer was accepted because we could use that money across the team to improve in various positions but now, we have that solidity and that structure where we dont need that improvement across the board. I point to the sales of the likes of Cisse - 8m, Sissoko - 9m, Baros - 6.5m where IMO we wouldnt have received such an offer 12 months later and let them go. We then used it to improve the squad further.

Nowadays, its much more important and Rafa has the squad he wants, he knows the squads' strengths and weaknesses and wants to keep player turnover to a minimum so as to achieve a solid outfit.

If this does not show his intent, i dont know what does. Its a bold message and its a strong one so the competition must watch out because Rafa will breathe new life into the footballing world with this squad.

Benitez is confident the key duo will remain on Merseyside and he has revealed he would like the pair to show some loyalty to Liverpool.

"I do not think Alonso or Mascherano will go. It is clear that they both are under contract with long-term agreements. That is it," insisted Benitez.

"There has been a lot of things written, a lot of rumours, but both players are under contract and we have no more need to talk about things.

If this doesn't justify what I wrote earlier in the thread then I don't know what will.

Real Madrid's president has said repeated he wanted Alonso, and he isn't ready to let go yet. Messi has on more than one occassion called publicly for Mascherano to join him at Barcelona. These are facts.

This stance from Benitez makes me proud to be a Red, as if I needed another reason to be!

More than ever, my confidence is growing for next season. We are going to come into it with the strongest side we've had for a long, long time.

Stick to your guns, Rafa. Build the side you want the way you want to, and we'll all cheer number 19 coming home.

Well said Ayrton, Rafa has appeased a lot of fans and allayed any fears with what he has done over the last few days, Its pivotal to our success both on and off the field for Rafa to stick to his guns over this matter off the field it sends out the right message to all the so called big clubs we are not a "selling club" nor are we a "feeder club". On the field, As you have quite rightly pointed out the benefit of keeping the players will only help us to land the elusive 19th. Confidence wise like you I can't wait until we kick off against Tottenham and get our season under way.

Good post this ! like everyone else I'm getting a bit tired of the transfer situation , a reported £ 3million for Arby? bet he really want to go there knowing they value him so highly

Hasn't Arby only got one year left on his contract?

£3m now is probably right given they get him for nothing at the end of the season.

I understand there is a three year deal on the table for him but he won't put pen to paper.

Anyway if we have a great season and Real don't he could change his mind.

I'll be surprised if Rafa keeps him if he is not prepared to commit to the club.  I'll watch this with interest.

Hmm, this whole Xabi episode throws this thread back up into the fold.

Even when Real should be in the power position, Rafa is playing it brilliantly by 'sticking to his guns'.

I am known for my psychic powers. :

Rafa has to be applauded for how he has played this so far, His Refusal to budge and accept anything less than the valuation he has placed on Alonso's head is remarkable and as a Liverpool supporter is something I have never before witnessed. Rafa's transfer valuation on Alonso IMO in the current market inflated by non other than Real Madrid is a fair reflection on Xabi's abilities as a player and Rafa has every right to hold out for what he wants.

I have resigned myself to Xabi leaving and his Valuation being met, but the comedy that is Madrid has kept me entertained and helped me keep a smile on my face through this whole charade. Lets be honest how can a club call a fee for a player excessive when in the very next sentence they follow it with praise such as "Xabi Alonso is a very unique player" then "Xabi Alonso is fundamental to our plans" ?, its beyond all common sense if you ask me.

In a way it shows how far we have come as club when a player may be leaving for a fee of 40 million, 35 million and 5 million in add ons if reports are to believed. This will be the first time for Liverpool but in a way it now shows us to be one of the European Super powers as clubs in Italy & Spain have been selling players for fee's like this for the last decade.

IMO Rafa is holding out for the valuation and possibly has this money spent in principle as I find it strange that we have not had any notable transfers since Johnson. My belief is Rafa has saved his remaining budget and the money from sales we have made to add to the fee of Alonso so he can set about pursuing the transfers he would really like to have here.