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      Formula 1

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      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4150: Oct 29, 2017 09:51:02 pm
      Bring me that sweet Ricciardo alternate universe.
      Ferrari team reverted to type when the pressure was on.
      So much internal strain on the team and it showed eventually.

      Like you said, Vettel feeling the pressure from external forces cost him more than anything else.
      That's all on Ferrari upper management.

      I sadly can't bring it to you more than you can bring a universe where Rosberg didn't retire at the end of last season! If only! I wish we had seen a season with Vettel/Ricciardo and Hamilton/Rosberg. Could have been a possibility only a couple of years back.

      Agree with you on matters regarding upper management not being what they should be. Judging by what some journos were saying the atmosphere inside Ferrari was toxic, probably dripping from the top in the form of Sergio Marchionne. He said some right cuntish things this season. What was it he called Kimi earlier on this year? A 'laggard'? So unprofessional and they only have to look at the relative professionalism of Mercedes to see where they are going wrong. Or better - just look at how they operated under Jean Todt and Ross Brawn. But their legacy has been somewhat squandered .

      Edit: Not 'somewhat squandered' - just plain squandered. Fair play to the designers and Vettel for making them so competitive this year...in spite of Marchionne and co I'm sure.

      p.s - did anyone see that DJ on the podium earlier? Worse than that boxing announcer last week.
      « Last Edit: Oct 29, 2017 10:03:19 pm by Frankly, Mr Shankly »
      racerx34
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4151: Oct 29, 2017 10:03:12 pm
      I sadly can't bring it to you more than you can bring a universe where Rosberg didn't retire at the end of last season! If only! I wish we had seen a season with Vettel/Ricciardo and Hamilton/Rosberg. Could have been a possibility only a couple of years back.

      Agree with you on matters regarding upper management not being what they should be. Judging by what some journos were saying the atmosphere inside Ferrari was toxic, probably dripping from the top in the form of Sergio Marchionne. He said some right cuntish things this season. What was it he called Kimi earlier on this year? A 'laggard'? So unprofessional and they only have to look at the relative professionalism of Mercedes to see where they are going wrong. Or better - just look at how they operated under Jean Todt and Ross Brawn. But their legacy has been somewhat squandered .

      Edit: Not 'somewhat squandered' - just plain squandered. Fair play to the designers and Vettel for making them so competitive this year...in spite of Marchionne and co I'm sure.

      Mercedes greatest strength is that they refuse to point the finger when something goes wrong and just work towards fixing the problem so that it doesn't happen again.

      The polar opposite of Ferrari and why 2 top Ferrari men are now at Mercedes, winning titles.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4152: Oct 29, 2017 10:17:14 pm
      Mercedes greatest strength is that they refuse to point the finger when something goes wrong and just work towards fixing the problem so that it doesn't happen again.

      The polar opposite of Ferrari and why 2 top Ferrari men are now at Mercedes, winning titles.

      Yeah - they've very much still got that smooth, disciplined temperament that Ross Brawn introduced in them.

      Still can't forgive Ferrari in what they did to Aldo Costa and James Allison. It's mind boggling to let go of two of the finest minds in f1 in the fashion they did.

      It'll be interesting to see how Allison can influence the team for next season's car. Seems like the easiest thing in the world to walk into a team as dominant as Mercedes and design a car to your fancy but we're now a few years in to their dominance and it will only get harder for them especially given how Ferrari have fared this season and how Red Bull are ending the season.
      racerx34
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4153: Oct 29, 2017 10:20:20 pm
      Still can't forgive Ferrari in what they did to Aldo Costa and James Allison. It's mind boggling to let go of two of the finest minds in f1 in the fashion they did.

      It'll be interesting to see how Allison can influence the team for next season's car. Seems like the easiest thing in the world to walk into a team as dominant as Mercedes and design a car to your fancy but we're now a few years in to their dominance and it will only get harder for them especially given how Ferrari have fared this season and how Red Bull are ending the season.

      Mercedes should be more concerned with how Red Bull are finishing.
      I pretty much called this in a piece I did after testing.
      Red Bull got it wrong on the new regs but their development has been phenomenal.
      Ferrari losing out to them slowly.
      Both Red Bull and Mercedes more locked down with their engineers.
      Ferrari need to learn from that or they'll lose out again next year. (Cyclical really)
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4154: Oct 29, 2017 10:30:49 pm
      Mercedes should be more concerned with how Red Bull are finishing.
      I pretty much called this in a piece I did after testing.
      Red Bull got it wrong on the new regs but their development has been phenomenal.
      Ferrari losing out to them slowly.
      Both Red Bull and Mercedes more locked down with their engineers.
      Ferrari need to learn from that or they'll lose out again next year. (Cyclical really)

      Yeah for sure. Just look at the gap between Verstappen and Bottas in this race. Ok - Verstappen is the superior driver but the size of the gap was pretty stark and I'm pretty sure some concern will be, aside from jubilation for Lewis, the predominant feeling coming out of Mercedes this weekend. Yeah they were expected to find it tougher here but in no race do you want to be 20 seconds behind especially if you're the world champions.
      racerx34
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4155: Oct 29, 2017 10:33:21 pm
      Yeah for sure. Just look at the gap between Verstappen and Bottas in this race. Ok - Verstappen is the superior driver but the size of the gap was pretty stark and I'm pretty sure some concern will be, aside from jubilation for Lewis, the predominant feeling coming out of Mercedes this weekend

      I'm not sure there is much more development left in their rake concept.
      Both Ferrari and Red bull have gone the other way and seem to be capable of working in a broader spectrum.
      Mercedes must have already looked at changing it for next season.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4156: Oct 29, 2017 10:56:31 pm
      I'm not sure there is much more development left in their rake concept.
      Both Ferrari and Red bull have gone the other way and seem to be capable of working in a broader spectrum.
      Mercedes must have already looked at changing it for next season.

      It does look like they've maxed out haven't they compared to Red Bull and Ferrari around them? It's clear just how superior the two other teams are on the high downforce circuits. They might need time to readjust next year under Allison's design proposals if that's the case then surely? He's a radical designer so they've got the right man to change it I'm sure.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4157: Oct 30, 2017 12:11:01 pm
      I'll just say that the stewards have been lenient on Vettel's touches on Verstappen and Hamilton who is now stone dead last because of a puncture caused by Vettel. Vettel not fairing much better having to pit for a new wing. If that's a Haas it's a penalty I think. Still on course to win the title is Lewis because Vettel's not doing the business. Needs second place at least to keep the title alive.



      Its every time Frankly  :f_steam: How do vettel/ferrari get away with it.  :f_doh:
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4158: Oct 30, 2017 09:21:45 pm
      Its every time Frankly  :f_steam: How do vettel/ferrari get away with it.  :f_doh:

      I absolutely don't think it was deliberate as some inferred (you can see Vettel oversteering as he hits the kerb) but it did look clumsy. Have no doubt it would be a penalty for those lower down the grid.

      Just reminding myself of the results and a couple of things impress me (aside from Verstappen). Esteban Ocon - another great result and it now look like he's got the measure over Sergio Perez (who scored decently himself). That's ANOTHER impressive Force India double points score finish - confirmed 4th place in the constructors! Amazing effort when you consider their resources. Lance Stroll - excellent finish in 6th. Really starting to look comfortable in this sport after a tough introduction to the sport at the start of the season. He'll be here for a long time.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4159: Oct 30, 2017 10:03:01 pm
      I absolutely don't think it was deliberate as some inferred (you can see Vettel oversteering as he hits the kerb) but it did look clumsy. Have no doubt it would be a penalty for those lower down the grid.

      Just reminding myself of the results and a couple of things impress me (aside from Verstappen). Esteban Ocon - another great result and it now look like he's got the measure over Sergio Perez (who scored decently himself). That's ANOTHER impressive Force India double points score finish - confirmed 4th place in the constructors! Amazing effort when you consider their resources. Lance Stroll - excellent finish in 6th. Really starting to look comfortable in this sport after a tough introduction to the sport at the start of the season. He'll be here for a long time.

      Freaky how you mention all the drivers that I think will go on to bigger and better things, none more so than Verstappen. He's like a Hammy in disguised and for one so young he's going to break plenty of records.
      Next seasons campaign looking as if it's going to be one hell of a year. Exciting times for F1 fans for sure.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4160: Oct 30, 2017 10:26:54 pm
      Well I said at the start of the season Hamilton was going to cruise to victory and despite Vettel at one point having a decent lead at the top, Hamilton ended up cruising to victory. Shame because I can't stand him but can't argue with having a winning gap like that.

      Alonso staying at McLaren will either prove to be what I think could be the end of his F1 career through frustration or he's going to be in for a competitive season again at long last.

      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4161: Oct 30, 2017 10:44:04 pm
      Freaky how you mention all the drivers that I think will go on to bigger and better things, none more so than Verstappen. He's like a Hammy in disguised and for one so young he's going to break plenty of records.
      Next seasons campaign looking as if it's going to be one hell of a year. Exciting times for F1 fans for sure.

      Dead right Keith. Amazing generation of drivers we're entering.

      As for the British side of things - I think we might be well catered for in the presence of a certain Lando Norris. Aged 17, he won the Euro F3 Championship in his rookie year - a feat not even Lewis achieved (he won it on his second attempt :D ). He's expected to move up to F2 or go to Japan next year but we could see him in two-three years if all things work out well. Such an immense young talent. As well as that newly crowned F2 champion Charles Leclerc is highly fancied in the Ferrari ranks so there's him to look forward to as well.

      Verstappen, Sainz Jnr, Ocon, Stroll and possibly the likes of Norris and Leclerc - the future is exciting!
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4162: Oct 31, 2017 10:21:39 am

      Alonso staying at McLaren will either prove to be what I think could be the end of his F1 career through frustration or he's going to be in for a competitive season again at long last.



      There's no doubting Alonso has the ability to be a F1 champion again but I can't see a significant change in just one year for him to be fighting out with the top 3 (( Hammy, Verstappen & Vettel )) in such a short space of time. It's taken Ferrrari & Red Bull longer than that to catch up with Mercedes.

      I've still not forgiven Alonso ( never will ) back in 2007 for what he did when team mates with Hammy back at McLaren when he purposely stayed in the pits to prevent Hammy getting out of the pits to do a flying lap. Karma is sweet as Alonso done nothing since.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4163: Oct 31, 2017 03:33:49 pm
      Well I said at the start of the season Hamilton was going to cruise to victory and despite Vettel at one point having a decent lead at the top, Hamilton ended up cruising to victory. Shame because I can't stand him but can't argue with having a winning gap like that.

      Alonso staying at McLaren will either prove to be what I think could be the end of his F1 career through frustration or he's going to be in for a competitive season again at long last.



      There's no doubting Alonso has the ability to be a F1 champion again but I can't see a significant change in just one year for him to be fighting out with the top 3 (( Hammy, Verstappen & Vettel )) in such a short space of time. It's taken Ferrrari & Red Bull longer than that to catch up with Mercedes.

      I've still not forgiven Alonso ( never will ) back in 2007 for what he did when team mates with Hammy back at McLaren when he purposely stayed in the pits to prevent Hammy getting out of the pits to do a flying lap. Karma is sweet as Alonso done nothing since.

      Agree with 7KK7 - it will just fizzle out for Fernando. Can't ever see him winning title number 3 for the reasons you state Keith.

      That season in 2007 you mention Keith left a very sour taste in my mouth with regards to Alonso as well. I remember the pit blocking incident was in reaction to Lewis not following team orders and giving way to Alonso as instructed on the track but regardless, his 'payback' was so disproportionate and petulant which rightly saw him moved to the back of the grid. Can't remember a more dramatic fall out - it was after that incident wasn't it that Alonso blackmailed Ron Dennis threatening him that he was going to go to the FIA with the Ferrari 'Spygate' details unless they held back Hamilton's challenge and made him number 1. And then came the massive fine and the complete wipe out of McLaren's constructors points!

      That Alonso decided to wage war and flee back to an uncompetitive Renault didn't say much about his temperament and attitude. Even if he lost out to Lewis that year he could easily have got his head down and beaten all before him in 2008. That his manager throughout his career has been Flavio Briatore probably says a lot for his actions. But being involved in another scandal with the 'Crashgate' incident in Singapore 2008 only damaged his reputation more I believe. I think he's an absolute master - a pure racer who is the complete driver. But he's squandered a lot of that talent at the expense of waging unnecessary battles with team personnel throughout. He's more than good enough to beat the guys at the front of the grid and his name alone probably carries millions more in sponsorship than anyone bar Hamilton. But the fact that neither Mercedes or Red Bull want him as well as Ferrari refusing to have him back speaks volumes. Such a shame. I still cheer him on because I think he's absolutely exceptional - there are some drivers like Senna and Schumacher who had their flaws but you could see through them because of their brilliance. Fernando's generation is the first I've been old enough to follow from the beginning so as time has gone by there's a sentimental attachment to the likes of him and similarly Kimi that has only seen my support of them rise throughout the years. There's nothing more I'd love to see than Fernando winning the title again even if it's unlikely to happen again!
      « Last Edit: Oct 31, 2017 03:47:44 pm by Frankly, Mr Shankly »
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4164: Oct 31, 2017 03:54:31 pm
      Agree with 7KK7 - it will just fizzle out for Fernando. Can't ever see him winning title number 3 for the reasons you state Keith.

      That season in 2007 you mention Keith left a very sour taste in my mouth with regards to Alonso as well. I remember the pit blocking incident was in reaction to Lewis not following team orders and giving way to Alonso as instructed on the track but regardless, his 'payback' was so disproportionate and petulant which rightly saw him moved to the back of the grid. Can't remember a more dramatic fall out - it was after that incident wasn't it that Alonso blackmailed Ron Dennis threatening him that he was going to go to the FIA with the Ferrari 'Spygate' details unless they held back Hamilton's challenge and made him number 1. And then came the massive fine and the complete wipe out of McLaren's constructors points!

      That Alonso decided to wage war and flee back to an uncompetitive Renault didn't say much about his temperament and attitude. Even if he lost out to Lewis that year he could easily have got his head down and beaten all before him in 2008. That his manager throughout his career has been Flavio Briatore probably says a lot for his actions. But being involved in another scandal with the 'Crashgate' incident in Singapore 2008 only damaged his reputation more I believe. I think he's an absolute master - a pure racer who is the complete driver. But he's squandered a lot of that talent at the expense of waging unnecessary battles with team personnel throughout. He's more than good enough to beat the guys at the front of the grid and his name alone probably carries millions more in sponsorship than anyone bar Hamilton. But the fact that neither Mercedes or Red Bull want him as well as Ferrari refusing to have him back speaks volumes. Such a shame. I still cheer him on because I think he's absolutely exceptional - there are some drivers like Senna and Schumacher who had their flaws but you could see through them because of their brilliance. Fernando's generation is the first I've been old enough to follow from the beginning so as time has gone by there's a sentimental attachment to the likes of him and similarly Kimi that has only seen my support of them rise throughout the years. There's nothing more I'd love to see than Fernando winning the title again even if it's unlikely to happen again!

      You remember the incedent very well Frankly.  ;D I know it was only around 10 seconds but felt like 10 mins. Heaven knows what was going through Hammys mind at the time.  :-\
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4165: Oct 31, 2017 04:06:20 pm
      Dead right Keith. Amazing generation of drivers we're entering.

      As for the British side of things - I think we might be well catered for in the presence of a certain Lando Norris. Aged 17, he won the Euro F3 Championship in his rookie year - a feat not even Lewis achieved (he won it on his second attempt :D ). He's expected to move up to F2 or go to Japan next year but we could see him in two-three years if all things work out well. Such an immense young talent. As well as that newly crowned F2 champion Charles Leclerc is highly fancied in the Ferrari ranks so there's him to look forward to as well.

      Verstappen, Sainz Jnr, Ocon, Stroll and possibly the likes of Norris and Leclerc - the future is exciting!

      I worship Hammy as you can probably tell Frankly  ;D Obviously you'll always get fans who won't like him for what ever reason. If Norris doesn't make the grade ( hopefully he does ) then I'll follow Verstappen as he has so many similarities as Hammy at the same age.

      Do you think Norris has got what it takes to be F1 champion or too early to say at this stage?
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4166: Oct 31, 2017 04:35:38 pm
      I worship Hammy as you can probably tell Frankly  ;D Obviously you'll always get fans who won't like him for what ever reason. If Norris doesn't make the grade ( hopefully he does ) then I'll follow Verstappen as he has so many similarities as Hammy at the same age.

      Do you think Norris has got what it takes to be F1 champion or too early to say at this stage?

      Yeah - I do think Norris can be a future world champion. I know he's only 17 but he's had an incredible couple of years. The FIA have all the 2017 Euro F3 races streamed on their youtube channel and the evidence is there to see that most of his performances have been nothing short of outstanding. He was a class apart.

      If he was in Red Bull's ranks we'd see him in Toro Rosso next year or even in 2019. But seeing as he's on McLaren's books the path to f1 might not be as seamless if he were a Red Bull driver. Make no mistake though - he is the brightest young British racing talent since Hamilton over a decade ago.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4167: Nov 02, 2017 07:16:40 pm
      Most dramatic ending to a sporting event I've ever seen. Incredible. 9 years ago today.

      https://twitter.com/F1/status/926000369439617024
      RedWilly
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4168: Nov 03, 2017 01:07:58 am
      Most dramatic ending to a sporting event I've ever seen. Incredible. 9 years ago today.

      https://twitter.com/F1/status/926000369439617024

      Remember watching that at the time. Unbelievable, start of a legacy that day was!
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4169: Nov 03, 2017 01:33:59 am
      Remember watching that at the time. Unbelievable, start of a legacy that day was!

      I desperately wanted Lewis to win it that year. From what I recall it was such an arse clenching race to watch because right until when the rain came Lewis was doing enough - just. Given the tension the whole race you just knew there was going to be something of a crescendo and indeed it was!

      For all the heroics of Massa during that race (and he was sublime that evening), I have no doubt that in the end the right man won the championship.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4170: Nov 24, 2017 01:58:31 pm
      F1 going through a rebranding phase before next season...including a new logo. Apparently they registered these designs to the EU last week. Don't quite see the purpose in replacing one of the most recognisable logos in sport (they want the feeder series to have similar branding)...especially if it's going to be one of these.

      Shabs
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4171: Nov 24, 2017 04:07:07 pm
      F1 going through a rebranding phase before next season...including a new logo. Apparently they registered these designs to the EU last week. Don't quite see the purpose in replacing one of the most recognisable logos in sport (they want the feeder series to have similar branding)...especially if it's going to be one of these.



      Why oh why would they f**k about with the current logo...FFS...
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4172: Nov 24, 2017 04:58:34 pm
      Why oh why would they f**k about with the current logo...FFS...

      I don't know why. It's one of the most recognisable logos in the world that's simple but clever (stupidly it took me a while after beginning to watch f1 the negative white space between the black f and the red 1 made out a clearly outlined 1!) It's a great logo.



      Thought these Americans were savvy and knew about 'brand recognition'!
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4173: Nov 24, 2017 05:20:10 pm
      I don't know why. It's one of the most recognisable logos in the world that's simple but clever (stupidly it took me a while after beginning to watch f1 the negative white space between the black f and the red 1 made out a clearly outlined 1!) It's a great logo.



      Thought these Americans were savvy and knew about 'brand recognition'!

      Totally agree this shouldn't be changed.
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #4174: Nov 24, 2017 07:06:49 pm
      Totally agree this shouldn't be changed.

      The only reason they have is that they want 'Brand consistency' with the lower formulas like F2. A pretty weak explanation for such a move.

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