4-4-2, why it makes sense.

Look back at how we played today against sunderland:

- Our back four looked solid; the full backs worked closely with the wingers to snuff out opposition attacks, and crucially there wasn't a gaping hole between the defence and the midfield.

- In midfield; Gerrard looked like the old stevie we all know and love. He still had the freedom to drive at the opposition, but was responsible in his position next to masch, he was the definition of a box-to-box midfielder today, and for me thats his best position. Masch looked up for it and in his element, more importantly he looked focused and not crowded next to a player trying to the same job as him.

-Wingers; We played with two natural wingers and had pace on the wings! Crazy idea isn't it.

-Up front; Time and time again this season i've seen torres try and be in two places at once, running from one side of the pitch to the other. Solution? Stick another striker next to him. This means not only is torres freed up more often, we have an additional goal threat.


The Alonso Factor:

Benitez started using the 4-2-3-1 formation in part due to finding a way to accomadate two very different midfielders - the ancor (Masch), and the playmaker (Alonso). And it worked like a charm last season. As we seen this season, there just hasn't been the cutting edge creativity in the midfield from the likes of Masch and Lucas, and neither of them are at fault, its just that being a creativev playmaker midfielder is no easy feat, and neither have the vision or the passing ability to be one. My point is that with our squad 4-4-2 makes a hell of a lot more sense, as we're playing people in the natural and and correct positions!

Agreed. Can't play with Masch and Lucas together, as they perform the same job, and in the end we just go sideways because of it. Stevie got dropped in there alongside Masch today, and he was bursting forward, knocking balls left, right and centre. It offered us VARIETY in our play, and we haven't seen much of that this season. Torres was staying in his position up top, wasn't drifting, and was recieving service, and he looked so much happier for it.

The wingers we're crucial, Babel and Maxi, they were both working well with the full backs, and making the right runs, creating options, and space for others. The only thing with this formation is where do we fit Aquilani in, if at all? But that would be only 1 minor slight on an otherwise good formation.

Not sure that was a completely a 4-4-2 today.  We still had the deeper lying striker.  Today's set up could still well be described as 4-2-3-1.

I feel that the main difference today lies in the movement of the players.  It seemed that the team had more freedom, and it was the movement that tore Sunderland apart today.

Too many times this season we've played with the same set-up however we've found it difficult to create chances due to players being stuck in their position restricting movement.  It was almost as if Rafa said to the lads today that they could swap roles when attacking.

At times it was more like 2-4-4 

Not sure that was a completely a 4-4-2 today.  We still had the deeper lying striker.  Today's set up could still well be described as 4-2-3-1.

I feel that the main difference today lies in the movement of the players.  It seemed that the team had more freedom, and it was the movement that tore Sunderland apart today.

Too many times this season we've played with the same set-up however we've found it difficult to create chances due to players being stuck in their position restricting movement.  It was almost as if Rafa said to the lads today that they could swap roles when attacking.

Thats a good point actually. The movement today was brilliant to watch, I was seeing Kuyt pop up on the left, Gerrard coming up behind Torres, Johnson's runs we're a treat to watch. I agree that it wasn't your rigid 4-4-2, but we we're seeing Nando getting a lot more support than he has previously. Either way, lets keep that formation (I'm very fickle)

Look back at how we played today against sunderland:

- Our back four looked solid; the full backs worked closely with the wingers to snuff out opposition attacks, and crucially there wasn't a gaping hole between the defence and the midfield.

- In midfield; Gerrard looked like the old stevie we all know and love. He still had the freedom to drive at the opposition, but was responsible in his position next to masch, he was the definition of a box-to-box midfielder today, and for me thats his best position. Masch looked up for it and in his element, more importantly he looked focused and not crowded next to a player trying to the same job as him.

-Wingers; We played with two natural wingers and had pace on the wings! Crazy idea isn't it.

-Up front; Time and time again this season I've seen torres try and be in two places at once, running from one side of the pitch to the other. Solution? Stick another striker next to him. This means not only is torres freed up more often, we have an additional goal threat.


The Alonso Factor:

Benitez started using the 4-2-3-1 formation in part due to finding a way to accomadate two very different midfielders - the ancor (Masch), and the playmaker (Alonso). And it worked like a charm last season. As we seen this season, there just hasn't been the cutting edge creativity in the midfield from the likes of Masch and Lucas, and neither of them are at fault, its just that being a creativev playmaker midfielder is no easy feat, and neither have the vision or the passing ability to be one. My point is that with our squad 4-4-2 makes a hell of a lot more sense, as we're playing people in the natural and and correct positions!

Top post mate,hit the nail on the head there.More of the same please Rafa.

Good post machell88, but i don't think we need someone with Torres.

He was absolutely superb in exploiting the space. Playing Maxi, Babel, Gerrard and Kuyt around him means even more space. Who do you close down? You let Kuyt go and he'll hurt you, you let Maxi go and he'll hurt you, you let Babel go and he'll hurt you and if you let Gerrard go you've lost before you've kicked a ball.

The system is perfect as is when used like it was today. The movement killed them and i think that's exactly how we should play every game from now on and until the day Liverpool FC does not remain.

I enjoyed it yesterday. Flowing , fast, fanatstic, football. As for the formation? I always thought that the formation only came into play when you didnt have the ball but when you are in possession you play where you are needed. There was a lot of switching around with all the players comfortable wherever they were.

Its what we've been saying all season really. Drop lucas and play either aquilani or gerrard in midfield, both who can pass a ball forwards and start attacks off constantly.

The system 4-2-3-1 still works, just not with lucas in the team. Personally id rather play 4-2-3-1 rather than 4-4-2 due to the fact we don't have any out and out wingers at the club. Maxi, Kuyt and yossi aren't blessed with pace. Riera has been sacked, and babel is inconsistent and im not sure if playing on the wing is his best/strongest position.

Our two strongest performances this season though, have been at home to pompy and at home to sunderland, lucas was left out both times and look what happened. Even the main lucas admirers (hello JD) will surely admit we are far stronger/more attacking with him out of the side. Apart from european away games and possibly at home to chelsea, i would leave lucas out of the side now. We have to win our remaining games and i don't think we will with lucas in the team.

I don't think it was a case of 4-4-2. More like 4-1-(whatever) Plenty of movement in front of Mascherano with Gerrard or Maxi dropping inside when needed. Apart from Babel out on the left the others seemed to move around freely. impossible to pick up if your the opposition and a joy to watch.
I still think it moves between 4-2-3-1 and 4-1-4-1 if you want to pin it to a formation structure but ultimately the demise of the two holding midfielders is greatly appreciated

Dare I say Lucas

What was pivotal about yesterday's result was the central midfield area otherwise known as the engine room. The difference of having a player in the central midfield area who can get his head up and plays the quick forward incisive pass is pivotal to the success of any team what ever formation they play as they keep the game flowing and dictate the tempo of that said game.

Movement of attacking players comes about by playing quick incisive one/two touch forward probing football, now in many games this season we have seen the attacking players looking pretty static as the game slows down in the central midfield area with the ball been played sideways, or backwards resulting in it being hoofed up field and cutting out our midfield all together.

Now I have been saying this all season long and I stand by it, Lucas Leiva does not have the abilities to control dominate and orchestrate a midfield, his negative style of play in retaining possession slows down the game gives the opposition time to get two banks of four in front of us and thus makes them harder to break down.

I'd go as far as saying our two best performances this season have been against Pompey and Sunderland and in both games we have a central midfielder alongside Masch who possesses a good range of passing, excellent vision, great game intelligence and the ability to orchestrate the midfield, step Forward Alberto Aquilani and Steven Gerrard.

Now this is not a thinly veigled attack at Lucas as I think we will agree Lucas is no where near Aquilani's or Gerrards quality and for me that is only highlighted by the contrasts in our performances when Lucas is not in the side. Yes we may all want to Lucas to succeed but there has to be balance, do we want Lucas Leiva to succeed at the expense of Liverpool's ability to get results ?, I know I don't, so for that reason I think Rafa has to be brave and stick with a winning team, theres no time for sentiment at Liverpool Football Club.

The only thing with this formation is where do we fit Aquilani in, if at all?

support for torres perhaps instead of kuyt? he did really well when he played that position before and he has much better passing ability than kuyt.

Dare I say Lucas

What was pivotal about yesterday's result was the central midfield area otherwise known as the engine room. The difference of having a player in the central midfield area who can get his head up and plays the quick forward incisive pass is pivotal to the success of any team what ever formation they play as they keep the game flowing and dictate the tempo of that said game.

Movement of attacking players comes about by playing quick incisive one/two touch forward probing football, now in many games this season we have seen the attacking players looking pretty static as the game slows down in the central midfield area with the ball been played sideways, or backwards resulting in it being hoofed up field and cutting out our midfield all together.

Now I have been saying this all season long and I stand by it, Lucas Leiva does not have the abilities to control dominate and orchestrate a midfield, his negative style of play in retaining possession slows down the game gives the opposition time to get two banks of four in front of us and thus makes them harder to break down.

I'd go as far as saying our two best performances this season have been against Pompey and Sunderland and in both games we have a central midfielder alongside Masch who possesses a good range of passing, excellent vision, great game intelligence and the ability to orchestrate the midfield, step Forward Alberto Aquilani and Steven Gerrard.

Now this is not a thinly veigled attack at Lucas as I think we will agree Lucas is no where near Aquilani's or Gerrards quality and for me that is only highlighted by the contrasts in our performances when Lucas is not in the side. Yes we may all want to Lucas to succeed but there has to be balance, do we want Lucas Leiva to succeed at the expense of Liverpool's ability to get results ?, I know I don't, so for that reason I think Rafa has to be brave and stick with a winning team, theres no time for sentiment at Liverpool Football Club.

You're perfectly correct. In any event, it's not even about his range of passing, it's just the rate at which its done and in which direction they are placed. The midfield played close knitted against Sunderland and that's what did it. The passing and movement in confined areas that opened up spaces on other parts of the pitch. For players to make runs was what made us looks do ominous.The less lethargic the midfield plays the more offensive they'll be.

By it's very nature a 4 4 2 brings about an attacking mindset and that's the difference.

A front two that are interchanging and popping up in different areas automatically increases your options for a pass. Add to the mix: two wingers, with the pace/skill to beat a man, also being fed early ball (by an attack minded CM) and you have an opposition that is continually on the back foot.

Our two full backs had space to move into because a) the wingers were able to (allowed to) play higher up the pitch and b) the wingers were not playing the ball back to them.

The same holds true for Agger. Danny was able to move freely into the space created by Gerrard's movement, safe in the knowledge that he wasn't hindered by another player or a back pass.

Sunderland were way too busy trying to defend which meant that Masch was more than capable to patrol the back line and provide cover on his own.

An awful lot of pundits, "expert" and armchair alike, were crying out for just this formation and mindset for a long time - and for a reason. I hope we stick with it from here on in.

MOTD2 last night - Liverpool played a team which was disinterested and wasn't playing for anything. United played Bolton and their result was due to brilliance (I paraphrase). What are Bolton playing for?

MOTD2 last night - Liverpool played a team which was disinterested and wasn't playing for anything. United played Bolton and their result was due to brilliance (I paraphrase). What are Bolton playing for?

Wrong thread for this (maybe?). 

Couldn't agree with you more, the only problem is.. Do you think rather will stick at this tactic?

We all know how much he loves to swap and change things, if he sticks to the 4-4-2 till the end of the season and we keep performing like that, why can't 4th place be ours?