Is Rafa suffering the same problem Gerard did?

For me Liverpool's downfall under Houllier was due to the Frenchman's heart problem. After he returned against Roma we had a fantastic end to the 01/02 season, just like we did last year when Benitez returned after his kidney problem, then the following season we were a total shambles just like we have been this year.

I'm just wondering if Rafa's Liverpool side is going the same way Gerard's did.

The immediate run is successful because it's such a boost having the boss back but in the long term the manager can never quite put as much into it because they've had stress related illnesses. Maybe they can't motivate the players to the same level they could pre-illness.

I'm not having a pop at Rafa, I'm just looking for some reason as to why we're in this position. We keep getting told it's the same players as last year, the same tactics as last year, the same system as last year so why it's such a difference in performance.

We had a massive injury list last year, to as many key players as this year. I remember Agger, Skrtel, Alonso, Gerrard, Torres all being out for a bit of time last year as well as the Olympics at the start of last season which kept a few of the lads out of the squad. The yanks (favourite reason for our failings) didn't exactly fork out huge amounts last summer either. Other clubs were spending huge amounts last season just like they have done in the summer of 09.

Now maybe this is the craziest reason for our season but once returning from heart surgery Houllier was never the same manager - understandably. And I'm just wondering if Benitez is now unable to motivate his players to the standard he could last year because in the back of his mind there's still a bit of doubt over his kidney problem. (I'm not actually sure how serious Rafa's illness was but it was serious enough for him to miss a few weeks of action)

Good point that, not sure if it's just a coinsidence or not, but it may just be a factor.

I have it on reasonably good authority that after the acute illness followed by the type of Surgery endured by Houllier would have some effect on his judgment.

Kidney problems will not cause the same problem unless they have failed and you are not on treatment.

No influence at all

Good idea, but IMO it's just a coincidence.

Yeah I'd have to imagine that it is just a coincidence aswell, couldn't really see kidney stones affecting a manager as much as heart surgery would.

I think right now we're all just clutching at straws trying to figure out what is going wrong this season.

No one puts more into their football than Rafa. Can't imagine this as a possibility.

If anything, he should fake an illness and see if they react!

 I have not checked the actual records when Houllier had the heart problems but to my recollection we did reasonably well with Phil Thompson running the show.With the training staff we have these days we should be well covered in the managers absence and Sammy Lee has enough experience to guide us on the right road.It would be interesting to compare injuries to our players in the times you are talking about as I feel we have been harder hit this season under RAFA.

I have not checked the actual records when Houllier had the heart problems but to my recollection we did reasonably well with Phil Thompson running the show.With the training staff we have these days we should be well covered in the managers absence and Sammy Lee has enough experience to guide us on the right road.It would be interesting to compare injuries to our players in the times you are talking about as I feel we have been harder hit this season under RAFA.

It was October 12th 2001(give or take one day). We were a home against Leeds, (pretty sure about that). I was in Edinburgh enjoying my 10th Wedding anniversary.

Unfortauntely, we can't have a great season every year. No team can.

I hope by this topic, nobody compares Rafa to Houllier. Houllier in some ways did a great job for us, he brought back silverware and put us back on the map again. However, he had taken us as far as he could. We were only ever going to be a 4th placed side under him.

Rafa has taken us that bit further and we are now a title challenging side (despite our performance this season).

People may argue that Rafa has taken us as far as he can, which may be the possible reason for this post dunlop?, i would be in disgareement with that though, I think Rafa could take us so much further and i really do believe we are capable of winning the league under him, i also think we will bag another european cup under him.

Once this season is over, we forget about it and re-group, then really go for it next season and im sure we will be there or thereabouts.

My gut feeling is we peaked last season under Rafa and that was as good as it gets , the players body language sugests they arebored of his methods and tactics , time for a change or Rafa has got to reinvent the way we play . 

I think like Johncolf that Rafa's team reached it's peak last season, now he needs to move some players on and out of the club, it's no good bringing in free transfers like the owners want, that way lies mediocrity and a team forever struggling.

There is one player who I think should get a run of games, and that's Ryan Babel, I know he has let himself and the club down in the past, but that was then, I think it's time to give him a run in the team, when I look at him now, I see a match winner, and if we let him go now we will regret it.

Another who I think should be in the squad and getting games is Dani Pacheco, if he's good enough he's old enough, so play him from the bench and maybe he'll become an  indispensable member of the squad, the only way to find out is play him, I hope he gets his chance, he's good enough.

There are other young players here besides Dani who could make the grade, like Mavinga, a really good prospect who I thought would have made his debut by now, I suppose it's not the same playing for the reserves as it is for the first team, when this guy gets his chance I expect him to keep his place, he for me is that good and his build looks well suited to the Prem.

Ayala is another who can make it, along with Spearing,  Plessis, Kelly, Irwin, Derby, all bar two are defenders, so we should be strong at the back for many, many, years. We have others who also are good prospects, and if these owners do not sell the club, it's players like these who we will rely on over the coming years.

I think giving the title a major tilt for the first time in ages was easier to do last season as you ride the crest of a wave of enthusiasm and good results, and it all felt new, exciting and fresh as it hadn't been done for a long time.

Backing up for a second tilt is much harder as you need the same drive and consistency as before. Just like a new foreign signing peaking for the first year but finding it much harder to retain the same intensity second time round.

For Houllier I think it applies because his problem and surgery were quite serious.