Critique our squad

Glenn Hoddle made the point at HT on Sunday and he was correct - Liverpool DO NOT have a squad. Tottenham have four strikers all vying for a place on the team sheet, Scum have numerous midfield options as well as decent goalkeeping back-up, Abu Dhabi FC at Eastlands have strength in depth...I could go on. So, here's the current Liverpool squad; http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/squad/

Share your thoughts, opinions and grievances

I think it just highlights just how many gaps we have in our current set up

Would that be the squad that almost won the league last term ,and will win it this time.

I think Glen Hoddle was spot on , our squad seems to have got weaker and weaker over the last 12 months players have been sold and replacements that have come in arn't much better   Xavi was a massive loss  , Keane ( 2nd striker) gone and not replaced  , Johnson for arbeloa is just like for like  , drossena   Why  we already had insua here could have saved about 8 m, sami has moved on any sign of a commanding centre half NO, Rafa must have spent 10 m on youngsters over the last few years , do any of them look like making the step up ?  I don't think so . The first eleven can beat anyone onthere day but the bench always looks weak , when we are struggling and need to make a change the options are very limited .

I'm not liking all of these negative topics lately.

For F**k's sake - we've lost ONE game!

You mention that Spurs have 4 strikers vying for a place on the team sheet. One of them Crouch wasn't happy on our bench, and he won't be happy on their's. Especially in World cup year
Do Man UTD have strength in depth . Their back 4 with the exception of Evra looked P**s poor against Birmingham once Ferdinand and Vidic were out, and their mid-field is nothing to write home about you wont' get 90 minutes out of Giggs or Scholes, and forget about playing the 2 of them together.
ManCity may be building a strong squad but they have the cash to spend. and a couple of ropey results and the in fighting there i bet will soon begin.

 

I'm not liking all of these negative topics lately.

For f**k's sake - we've lost ONE game!

   Agree 100%, We had the toughest game by far in the weekend from the top four ,  we could have easily had a draw( not merited to be honest)
 other teams had a game at home , against relegation zone teams , excluding arsenal who smashed the bitters  6-1, ok we lost and they won , I'm sure it will be tough for them  too at WHL
   Be Positive , trust in Rafa , , we will hit  top form soon enough to catch up and make for this defeat YNWA

RB - Johnson, Degen

CB - Carra, Skrtel, Agger

LB - Insua, Aurelio, Dossena

CM - Masch, Lucas, Gerrard, Aqulani

RM - Kuyt, Yossi

LM - Reira, Babel, Yossi

FWD - Nando, Gerrard, Kuyt, Voronin, Babel

Haven't included Spearing, Martin, Ngog etc, I'd say maybe another experienced centre back is needed but apart from that we got cover in every posistion. OK ..the quality of that cover is up for question in some cases but anyway Hoddle's a clown, great player but crap manager and pundit

The squad is thin on absoloute proven Premiership quality. An injury here or there to anybody of the starting XI there's not much proven quality coming in.

Reina gets injured we're bringing in Cav
Johnson goes down we're looking at Darby or Degen
Carra/Agger/Skrtel and it's Ayala or Kelly
Aurelio and as we've seen in comes Insua
Kuyt gets injured we're relying on Babel or El Zhar
Lucas or Masch go down we're expecting Spearing or Plessis or moving Stevie back or Aquilani to be a revelation in his first year
Riera goes down we've got Benayoun, probably the only place we have proven quality although Benayoun still isn't a natural left winger
Torres takes a knock we're relying on Voronin/Ngog/Nemeth/Pacheco

Now don't get me wrong I'm all for the kids coming through, but we don't have that proven Premiership player to come off the bench for almost every position.

Take the forward line as the perfect example, we're trusting a young kid or the sh*t Voronin to replace Torres whereas Spurs do have Crouch, Chelsea have Anelka, United have Owen, City have Tevez/Bellamy/Adebyeor/Santa Cruz (depending on who they start with). Even Everton have Saha, not that he's world class, far from it, but it's somebody who knows the Premiership and has proven he can score in this division, same goes with Villa and Heskey/Carew again depending on who they start with. Stoke have an option of either Beattie or Fuller, again neither world class but proven Premiership players who've scored a decent amount of goals in this division.

Just having somebody who has proven they can score in this division would be a massive boost for us.

Midfield wise we're relying on El Zhar, Spearing, Plessis, Babel. It's not a midfield to fear, no matter how blind people wanna be, even they can see that midfield is short of quality. And the same with defence, Degen, Kelly, Ayala, Insua. Although Insua has a few games under his belt, he's not had a full season in the first team. It's a squad desperately short on experienced quality in reserve.

What I will say though is there's a lot of youngsters with quality. Most of those I've mentioned (Spearing, Insua, Kelly, Ayala) have quality, it's just a case of getting it out of them. But experience, especially when going for trophies, is invaluable. If you need to run down the clock to take three points to take the league, I'd rather see an experienced head than a young lad getting excited.

Our success in 2001 was built around Gary Mc. Unable, because of his age, to play every single game but his experience was so important to the likes of Gerrard who was still only a kid at the time. Last year we had big Sami at the back to give his experience from the bench. This year, we don't have it.

Super Dan...the new Gary Mac then?

RB - Johnson, Degen

CB - Carra, Skrtel, Agger

LB - Insua, Aurelio, Dossena

CM - Masch, Lucas, Gerrard, Aqulani

RM - Kuyt, Yossi

LM - Reira, Babel, Yossi

FWD - Nando, Gerrard, Kuyt, Voronin, Babel

Haven't included Spearing, Martin, Ngog etc, I'd say maybe another experienced centre back is needed but apart from that we got cover in every posistion. OK ..the quality of that cover is up for question in some cases but anyway Hoddle's a clown, great player but crap manager and pundit

Agree 100%, but we still need to put a squad together. Not just 11 players as a team.

To be perfectly honest, I reckon people are right to be worried about our strength in depth.  Looking at the bench on Sunday, only Yossi was ever going to have any impact on the game if it wasn't going our way, which as it turned out, we got beat but when Yossi came on he did more than most of the starting XI did in 90 minutes.  And with Rafa having no money to spend we're gonna have to rely on our top players staying fit and being on form or else we are going to struggle as we did on Sunday against good opposition.

IMO we have to take a punt with the likes of Nemeth and Pacheco at some stage this season if no more players can be brought in.  To me I'd rather see one of these two come off the bench rather than Voronin, Babel or El Zhar, whom IMO are no more than deadwood.  People will go on about experience but how the hell are you meant to get experience if you're left in the reserves every week?  Starting XI though when everybody is fit, we're very good.

Btw to some people, a bit of criticism is needed sometimes, within reason of course.  Some people jump at the thought of something negative being said about the team and I find that quite funny because the team were anything but title challengers on Sunday.  I would never write us off unless it was 100% impossible but questions need to asked about the squad in general and some people need to get a grip and stop having a go at those that ask these questions.

sami has moved on any sign of a commanding centre half NO,

Jamie Carragher?

The squad did look bare on Sunday but injuries did contribute of course, remember that a full strength side would consist of a bench of names like Agger/Skrtel, Aurelio? Dossena, Lucas (Aquilani starting), Babel and possibly Benayoun and now we've signed Kyrgiakos.

When you look at it like that our squad looks alot better and I'm relatively comfortable with those players. The one place I think we need strengthening is upfront, I think we do lack a real replacement for Torres and I've felt this way since Keane left. I still consider Voronin to be a poor signing and one that is not capable of doing well here, Ngo'g has shown promise but I doubt he's going to offer us real backup upfront. That's why signing a striker would be the perfect option I think.

Totally agree DLS. The problem is even greater when today, once again a Liverpool yougster who we were told was a hot property a few years back, with the infamous tag of 'potential' has been released today.
Ryan Crowther joins the myriad of players we have bought up, who haven't developed and have been released, sold at little profit or loaned out because we can't rid of them. I know that obviously this doesn't apply to all our youth players but something was, or still is terribly wrong in our scouting and development policy in recent years. And please no one respond back with Gerrard, owen, fowler and so on. That was a decade ago at least that they came through.

Our squad is definately weaker than last season with less experienced, quality depth. Either buy or develop. If you are going to develop then sort out your scouting and trust the youngsters to push on.

Its only the start of the season and this isn't a response to a poor start but a long held concern over the squads progresion towards quality homegrown players who can push us forward.

RB - Johnson, Degen

CB - Carra, Skrtel, Agger

LB - Insua, Aurelio, Dossena

Left back is looking weak (I've never really had too much faith in Insua) and Aurelio's been injured. And Johnson's backup is Dossena? I would say put one of the center backs on the side, but we've hardly got any anymore.

We've lost Hyypia and Alonso. Two powerful figures in the dressing room and two great players.

Keane went and whilst he was poor - he was bought because we needed a second Premier League class striker. He hasn't been replaced.

No question in my mind that our squad is much weaker than last year.  

If Torres suffers a season ending injury then we have no chance of winning anything.  What competition has Torres got?  Look at United in comparison.

This summer, so far, has been an absolute disaster.  The Yanks will probably sell Torres and Gerrard next summer.

What's most worrying about this situation is the lack of activity that seems to be going on. OK that Kyrgiakos guy looks to be coming but thats a player bought for quantity and not quality. I'm worried that no moves appear to have been made for the positions we desperately need quality reinforcements, a winger and striker. I know papers are usually full of rubbish but we don't even seem to be linked with anyone half decent in these positions. How many times last season did we say, "If Torres was fit we would have won"? We missed out because of a lack of depth and without rectifying it we'll have to keep our fingers crossed regarding injuries if we stand a chance of winning the title.

We almost won it last season.

Our primary problem?

- Transfer funds unavailable. The owners are starving the club of funds and we shop from the bargain basement.

I wish the fans will stop trashing the players though.

I wish the fans will stop trashing the players though.

And I wish you'd stop posting utter bollocks like this, but it's not gonna happen so get over it.

I think with our full selection of players the bench does look a lot better than the one on the weekend but you would have to be a fool not to see our team isn't as good this year than last year. I think maybe this will be the year that some of these kids will have to show they can play at this level and hey maybe we get one or two who can do what Inusa did and show they can cut it at this level. All you have to do is look at Manure who unproven kids turn out to be major players in the league title when called upon.

People can argue that yes we have a squad and depth in it and that we were that squad was close to winning the premiership but the matter of the fact is we do not have a squad with quality we have a starting 11 of quality but not a 24man squad.

Look at previous winners of the premier league in the last 5 years, Chelsea and Man united they both have just as good starting line ups as ours most occasions are line ups perform better but they have better back up then us and that is a worry. If Vidic is injured Evans can cover if Evra is injured Fabio can cover if Carrick is injured they have Scholes as for Chelsea if Drogba is injured they have Anelka, Kalou. People may say oh but we have Darby and Ngog as back up but they are not as good as our competitors, so to win the premiership I think we need to get a stronger SQUAD together emphasizing the word squad as our starting 11 is as good as the next team look at the CB situation we had Hyppia as the calm experienced player to be the safe net say our 3 main CB get injured now it looks to me that we do not have a safe net and are bieng forced to play a youngster that is not ready (Ayala).

This year i feel the squad has weakened but i still believe we can win the title as long as we have some luck with a couple of injuries next season or even at the moment we need to buy some experienced defenders and midfielders to calm the team down and help the youngsters progress.

Yeh, lets not get carried away, alright? I've heard all over the place. " Man united will win the league". "Chelsea will win the league". "Arsenal will win the league". "Man City will win the league".

All this after just one game. Let's complain at the end of the season. We'll see how much complaining there is then.

Liverpool should play more confident attacking in the next match. Yossi should start the next match. Babel didn't play well last match. He cannot pass the ball and dribble past the defender. Lucas also cannot support Gerrard and Torres. His not creative enough in the midfield. Liverpool need some player that can play the ball and pass around to create a more chances to the striker to score goals. Hopefully next match Stoke City, Liverpool can win it.

What is with these negative topics. Im getting frustrated that everyone is jumping on our teams back we have only lost 1 game and it was not exactly to one of the easier teams. Lets look to the next 2 games if we get 6 points were back on track if not i will come back on here and start talking about about our so called weak squad.

We are definitely weaker than last year. We lost Alonso, one of the best central midfielders in the country, and replaced him with Aquilani, who is a very good player, but we can't expect him to work miracles in his first season.

But we DO have a squad. We have at least 1 adequate back up for each position, barring striker and right back. What we need is the so called 'squad players' (That's you Babel) to start F***ing performing. If one of our first XI get's injured, our squad players just aren't doing the business at the moment. That's the main issue, IMO.

Is this the thread to speak with your brain and not with your heart, then?

Well certainly I do admit the team isn't as strong as last season, we've sold off 2 top players in Alonso and Hyypia, it needs some replacing. As of now, we can't be sure whether Alberto or Glen will step it up and make the position their own. To be continously challenging for the title we need to ensure that we get the right funds, the manager gets the right support in the team.

However, for me though the other 'Big Four' teams hasn't particularly strengthened as well, so we ain't the only one, and although we have weakened we are still in a good position to challenge for the title.

We do not have good backups in our ranks, or even near decent at least to be honest. When one first choice defender is out we have got no reliable backups but to draft a few youngsters in, and then give them an emergency run out if anything bad happens (eg. the game at Spurs). In defence our team is thin especially in the centre for me, but up on top I do think we are just sufficiently well covered, we have the likes of Yossi who, for me is one of the most underrated players in the league, can operate left right centre, and scores crucial goals when we need it.

I actually thought that when we had Keane last season it disrupted the harmony of our rhythm. It required us to change a title winning formation in 4-2-3-1 to a 4-4-2, pushing Gerrard back just to accomdate Keane, which for me isn't a wise thing to do at all. As much as he is a top striker, proven with quality, he has been an absolute flop at Liverpool and during his time here I would rather have N'gog up front than Keane.

It was only after Keane left that our results started to pick up, and I thought that with his moaning to the press and negativity at Liverpool it was best that he left in January. After he left for the rest of the season, bar February, we have been consistenly producing top results and during the big teams a good whack in the arse as well.

Now we have Voronin, Nemeth, Pacheco, and maybe N'gog, but none of them look to replace Torres up front. I wouldn't mind though if we put Yossi on the right, Kuyt up front who runs circles at defences allowing Steven Gerrard more space through the centre.

The yanks haven't given Rafa enough funds, they have instead taken the profit from transfers away and put them in their pockets. It is these act of selfishness, the act of unwillingness to open their purses to finance that club that have literally spewed the club into a laughing stock since they came here. The stadium, if I'm not wrong, was due for opening at 2010/2011 season initially but it hasn't even started construction, they and their pricks mouths tell us that its due to the rising costs of building materials. Rubbish.

Unless the yanks realise the need to give Rafa funds then only then can we continue strengthening out squad. With funds like these where it comes from prize money, revenues, we are not going to go near anywhere the title if this continues, seriously speaking. Can't wait for the summer to be done and over with, what started as all hope and optimism of signing big stars like Silva look to be up in flames because of the yanks' inability.

I'm not liking all of these negative topics lately.

For F**k's sake - we've lost ONE game!

I wish the fans will stop trashing the players though.

What is with these negative topics.

What is people's problem with discussing different aspects of the team? It is clear looking from a totally unbiased perspective that our squad has weak points, and I don't see why these points can't be debated? What is it with this recent trend of labelling anyone highlighting the weaknesses of our players and team as negative?

Those who show up to say someone is "sh*t", without any real argument is negative, but if someone has a valid point to make, can't we just read and debate the point? If you don't agree, instead of sticking labels on people, prove them wrong. This would be one very boring place if we all agreed and we were never allowed to say how we feel.

That being said, I appreciate the timing if some of these threads looks a bit of a knee-jerk reaction on the back of the Spurs defeat, but if we're analysing this year's squad compared to last years, for example, then why not?

On topic: Defensively I think that when all our players are fully fit then we have one of the strongest units in the country. Indeed, I feel that we are hugely unlucky at the moment to have three top class CB's injured or returning from injury, and I don't think it is a problem that will be presented often, I'm not really worried about that position. LB looks sound as well, it's only the RB position where we might struggle should Johnson be out for a while.

Really, the same can be said for the midfield and attacking positions. Fully fit, we have an excellent and versatile group of players. It's only when two or three injuries start piling up that we look weak. That being said, I am slightly worried about a replacement for Torres. In all honesty, in the event that he is out for a while, I hope that N'Gog or Voronin could do the job, but I won't be holding my breath, a quality back up would not go amiss.

Anyway, in a couple of weeks almost all our players should be available, in a month we could have everyone back, at which point we would have to be very, very unlucky to have the same numbers out again at one time this season. Yes, our squad lacks a certain quality in depth, but I feel it can still put up a strong challenge over the year, and that to hit the panic button after one game is exaggerating things greatly.

I agree that our team has some negatives, but there also a lot of positives. Now the start to the season hasn't been the most fantastic but this could work in our favour - the less pressure on us, and the more people write us off - the easier it will be on players and management to battle through and get that title next May.

To be fair though Ayrton, these threads wouldn't be turning up if we hadn't lost the game.

This whole subject is a particular bugbear of mine. Time after time I've sat back and read threads on players we're linked with and watched on, biting my tongue, as board members dismiss 'linked' players. All to often I read that "he won't want to warm the bench" or "our one striker system works, he won't be able to replace Stevie or Nando." These posters miss the point, again and again; we need top class players to compete for places. We need top class players to compete for titles. Our young lads ain't coming through because we can't afford the luxury to blood them in a strong set-up.

Our squad is weak in strength and depth and anyone denying this either knows f**k all about football or is half mental. Loyalty to the team is one thing (and very admirable) but burying one's head in the sand, hoping we can push on without strength in depth, is idiotic. Like it our not, them's the facts. I'm sick, sore and tired of other Red's loyalty being questioned or being labeled as 'negative' when they dare point out the obvious.

I'll put it like this: Do any of you believe that if Rafa had unlimited funds that he wouldn't have signed the likes of Silva, Tevez, Hangeland, Barry, Amorebieta, Adebayor or Villa? Or do any of you believe that them, or players of the same quality, wouldn't have signed for us? Of course not!  Players like these know they would get their chance to play for a team able to dominate at home and in Europe.

Instead we are again relying on luck in the hope that our strong starting XI don't suffer too much with injury and suspension.

To be fair Res, these threads wouldn't have to pop up if we won every game.
 
*Rant ends. YNWA

To be fair though Ayrton, these threads wouldn't be turning up if we hadn't lost the game.

That being said, I appreciate the timing if some of these threads looks a bit of a knee-jerk reaction on the back of the Spurs defeat, but if we're analysing this year's squad compared to last years, for example, then why not?

Did you read my post thoroughly?

I'm still half asleep 

I'm still half asleep 

On the razz again last night?

Oops, this is critique the squad, not the staff.

Did you read my post thoroughly?

Hi Ayrton, mine was all to do with it being the fact this topic has come about after 1 game. And i agree with you theres no need for knee-jerk reaction after 1 game.
Its not just on here though i was playing footy with the lads and the Rafa bashers were out in force last night, i had to plightly remind them that Rafa has once again had to work with no money given to him but just solely the money he has made.

I had to plightly remind them that Rafa has once again had to work with no money given to him but just solely the money he has made.

FYI  he doesn't even get the money that he's made form transfer even that's sucked out of us !

This post is a critique of the squad; not a critique of our performance against Spurs. Whether we won, lost or drew on Sunday; the squad at Liverpool would still need debating. I think some people are right and teams like Spurs won't be able to satisfy Keane, Defoe, Crouch and Pav forever as ultimately someone will have to give whether that is because of personal ambitions or a desire to play in World Cup year but they still have a healthy squad and that is integral for a long season where are aspirations are to end it as champions.
I don't like talking up Scum but even Manure's defensive problems highlight their strength in depth...losing Ferdinand and Vidic, they still have Evans, O'Shea, Brown. They may not be as good as the original centre pairing but it's still strong enough to compete. In midfield they have a mix of strong kids, experienced elders and foreign talent to pick from. Elsewhere, Stoke have 5 strikers vying for 2 places. Abu Dhabi FC have 5 strikers vying for two places. Spurs have midfield options coming out of their ears. The options are endless. Liverpool don't have this...
This doesn't mean we can't win the league as some of you have rightly said; it's a similar squad that run us v close last term BUT add a bit of strength and we could turn last years draws into wins and indeed bring back number 19

I agree with Glen Hoddle in that our squad is very weak. Its a point I've discussed many times with friends how Chelsea, Man United have a far better squad than us. In my opinion our first XI can beat any club in the country, or world even. But our squad is incredibly weak.
This transfer season we have lost Xabi, Hyypia and Arbeloa. Hyypia was a fantastic squad player, 4th choice centre back yes, but extremely valuable for his height and experience in defence. Arbeloa was first XI, many people here didn't rate him but he was first choice, that you cannot deny. And Xabi.. well Xabi was a midfield maestro, the ultimate deep lying midfielder, his passing and vision was arguably the best in the world, plus his experience including that wonderful night in Instanbul 2005 was massively important even though it was often overlooked.

We have just two players left from Istanbul, our captain Gerrard and our Vice Captain Carragher. That was only 4, now 5 seasons ago. Experience is something which is greatly needed to win titles and be a successful club. This transfer window we have brought in Glen Johnson to replace Arbeloa as first choice right back, a step-up, I don't know, maybe he is maybe he isn't we'll have to wait and see. Aquilani was brought in to replace Xabi, but being injured for the start of the season has weakened our first team, not only our squad, but in the long term we will have to see what he adds to the team.

Look at Man United's depth for instance. They have Scholes/Giggs, Owen, Hargreaves/Fletcher, Anderson, Nani all coming off their bench. Yes they have lost players, Ronaldo and Tevez were massive players for their team but their squad is strong enough to provide adequate replacements for them. Not as good obviously, but still good players. Now look at our back-up if Torres, Mascherano or Gerrard gets injured. To play as a striker we have Voronin, NGog, or Kuyt who was moved out on the right wing because he isn't suited as a striker in the premierleague. For Gerrard our back-up is Babel or Benayoun, not bad but no where near Stevie G's level. For Mascherano we have Lucas who has faield to impress despite regular action in the first team and Spearing who is barely out of the academy.

Someone needs to start singing Wind of Change by the Scorpions... Bc thats whats blowing thru Anfield at the moment

Someone needs to start singing Wind of Change by the Scorpions... Bc thats whats blowing thru Anfield at the moment

I was listening to that song after the Tottenham game ....it made me feel much better ! 

am listening atm!!!

Our first XI is probably one of the best in the world. But as soon as injuries kick in and the whole squad is exposed, I have to say United's and Chelsea's squad are a lot stronger.

We have a brilliant 1st team squad however we don't have the depth of most of the top half teams let alone the top 4

Investing in youth is a good way for a club like ours to have world class players and also it can help the club financially in years to come

However we are a huge club and any youngsters that do get into our team should be amazing we should have a squad filled with 10-15mil rated players, who would seriously claim any of the yougsters we have at the moment come close to that evaluation?

Every year we see players going for 10-15 mil that are a lot better than some of our own cover weve spent 40 million on two players this year and although we had to replace Xabi which we knew would be expensive did we really need to pay such and ammount to replace Arbeloa? In my opinion we didn't there are a lot of players out there that would fill the gap (I actually rate Kelly enough that he could of done this) for a fraction of the price and then we could of spent some more money either bringing a veteran premierleague forward to help with the workload Torres has or bringing in another defender.

This isn't a rant about our manager as he is being smart and investing in youth but i feel that even doing this won't help us only the owners bank balance

I'm just grateful they havent cashed in on Torres

Our primary problem?

- Transfer funds unavailable. The owners are starving the club of funds and we shop from the bargain basement.

This is absolutely the truth. Of course, that does not justify Rafa for some obvious mistakes he has made but the majority of our problems is coming from the financial side. And definitely our youngsters haven't developed as much as they were expected in order to become a proper backup for the star ones.

My problem is our bench. We lack quality off it to really turn a game on its head should we be struggling.

Strength in depth is my main issue with the side. We have as good of a first XI as anybody but just lack that extra player or two to really get us going and get some competition in the side.

We dont necessarily have to sign world class talent, just some good players to push each other and we'll see a stronger side for it.

In saying that last bit, bring me Silva anyway and while we're at it that Villa fella would be handy backup.