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      Our scouting network

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      Brian78
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      Our scouting network
      Jun 09, 2009 09:55:28 pm
      All this Kaka being sold for nearly 60 million quid got me thinking about our scouting network, particularly in South America, and how it is set up.

      Kaka joined Milan for 8.5 mllion Euros thats around 6 million pounds. As far as Im aware Leo Messi went to Barce for nothing. Ronaldinho and Ronaldo moved from Brazil to PSG and PSV respectively. Surely Liverpool could A) Attract those players at least as much if not more then the clubs they went to and B) Could afford to buy them. So are we going to continue missing out on the stars of the future from South America or are we more alert now to whats out there.

      Lucas aside any South Americans to play for us transferred in from European clubs. In times like these whn things are tight why not spend 5 million on the next Kaka rather then 20 million on the next Keane

      If anybody knows about our scouting system Id love to read your views
      Gow
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      Re: Our scouting network
      Reply #1: Jun 09, 2009 10:00:42 pm
      Sod our scouting systems, let's get theirs! I think there's definitely room for improvement!
      red trooper
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      Re: Our scouting network
      Reply #2: Jun 09, 2009 10:20:30 pm
      Can't see many young south american starlets swapping the choice of sunshine ,lifestyle of Italy and Spain for England somehow .but if they want a volunteer scout ........ ;)
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Our scouting network
      Reply #3: Jun 09, 2009 10:51:12 pm
      We've brought in (as well as Lucas);

      Insua from Boca Juniors (Argentina)
      Leto from Lanus (Argentina)
      Palletta from Athletico Banfield (Argentina)
      Huth from Tacuary (Paraguay)
      Flora from Botafogo (Brazil)

      So we've brought in a few from South America, they've just not be world stars like Kaka, Pato and the like. Mainly because there's a rule stating English clubs can't sign under-18 Brazilians (I think that's it anyway) which means when they show a bit of a talent in their home nation, the big Spanish/Italian clubs sign them up and the English clubs have to miss out.
      Brian78
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      Re: Our scouting network
      Reply #4: Jun 09, 2009 10:54:14 pm
      We've brought in (as well as Lucas);

      Insua from Boca Juniors (Argentina)
      Leto from Lanus (Argentina)
      Palletta from Athletico Banfield (Argentina)
      Huth from Tacuary (Paraguay)
      Flora from Botafogo (Brazil)

      So we've brought in a few from South America, they've just not be world stars like Kaka, Pato and the like. Mainly because there's a rule stating English clubs can't sign under-18 Brazilians (I think that's it anyway) which means when they show a bit of a talent in their home nation, the big Spanish/Italian clubs sign them up and the English clubs have to miss out.

      How stupid of me to forget Insua.

      Thanks for the info about that u18 rule. By the way this Vita Flora lad will he come good do ye think?
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Our scouting network
      Reply #5: Jun 09, 2009 11:02:11 pm
      How stupid of me to forget Insua.

      Thanks for the info about that u18 rule. By the way this Vita Flora lad will he come good do ye think?

      I doubt it mate it to be honest. He didn't really set the reserves alight and looks way behind Nemeth/Pacheco/Brouwer/Simon/Ngog in terms of ability. Even Eccleston, Amoo and Dalle Valle look better at a younger age.

      So I doubt he'll be too involved in our first team activities.
      RedRoy
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      Re: Our scouting network
      Reply #6: Jun 09, 2009 11:50:36 pm
      We've brought in (as well as Lucas);

      Insua from Boca Juniors (Argentina)
      Leto from Lanus (Argentina)
      Palletta from Athletico Banfield (Argentina)
      Huth from Tacuary (Paraguay)
      Flora from Botafogo (Brazil)

      So we've brought in a few from South America, they've just not be world stars like Kaka, Pato and the like. Mainly because there's a rule stating English clubs can't sign under-18 Brazilians (I think that's it anyway) which means when they show a bit of a talent in their home nation, the big Spanish/Italian clubs sign them up and the English clubs have to miss out.
      Spot on as usual DLS.The problem pre Rafa is that they were only recognised post academy entry. We now have in place a scouting network that recognises talent earlier, and more impotantly follows this up consistently so that Rafa's legendary data base is in tune with the rest of the European superclubs. What's been lacking to date is a mentality within the club to speculate on this info.This has now changed, and with the changes in youth development instigated recently by Rafa we will see the dividends in years to come.
      Christ
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      Re: Our scouting network
      Reply #7: Jun 10, 2009 12:39:27 am
      How stupid of me to forget Insua.

      Thanks for the info about that u18 rule. By the way this Vita Flora lad will he come good do ye think?

      I cant believe he's not better.. :D
      SaintLiverpudlian
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      Re: Our scouting network
      Reply #8: Jun 10, 2009 12:45:23 am
      I honestly don't like poaching talents. would rather see scouts keep an eye on scousers. English local talents would be the best for our game. That's why the FA set the U18 rule anyway. And would cost us literally 0 for a change.

      Regardless, we have invested in buying young talents last season and the one before. Babel believe it or not was a hot prospect, and so are all the ones DLS mentioned.

      South Americans though, all Europe's clubs keep their tabs on players with dual nationalities (SA + EU) who are good, and these aren't too many.
      crouchinho
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      Re: Our scouting network
      Reply #9: Jun 10, 2009 07:47:51 am
      Not just our scouting but our apparent reluctance to pay that much for a youngster no matter how good they become. Could have had Aguero for 9 million or Pato for 7 but look at whats happened...we arent willing to pay it up and in the end we spend way more than that on a couple players who are brought in to do a job but fail.
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: Our scouting network
      Reply #10: Jun 10, 2009 07:50:56 am
      I cant believe he's not better.. :D

      Class!  :lmao: + for that.
      redsonfire
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      Re: Our scouting network
      Reply #11: Sep 11, 2009 05:09:50 pm
      To answer your question Brian, I have compiled a couple of articles that I've read over the net and searched them again to get them posted on here. It's quite in-depth and it may take you some time to read everything, but I'll let the articles do the talking.

      The Truth Behind Liverpoolā€™s Italian Rumours
      WEDNESDAY, JUNE 13, 2007
      Vincenco Iaquinta, Amauri, Giorgio Chiellini, Mancini, Juan Manuel Vargas: the list of Serie A based players being linked to Liverpool is increasing at a rate that makes it hard to believe that all these rumours are simply spurious. Add to these the loan transfer of Daniele Padelli and a pattern starts to emerge.

      One that leads to Mauro Pederzoli. The one time Brescia and Cagliari technical director - who in Italy have total control on who the club buys - befriended Rafael Benitez when he was still managing Extremadura some fifteen years back.

      Over the past two seasons, Pederzoli has been Liverpoolā€™s chief scout in Italy, working closely with Eduardo Macia looking at players not only in the top flight but also lower down the league structure. When Chris Bascombe said that Macia ā€œcan be sure his dependency on the same Italian agents will be monitored if the signings arenā€™t good enough.ā€ in the Echo some time back, he was unwittingly referring to Pederzoli who, it transpires, is not an agent but actually a Liverpool employee. And whilst his initial deal ā€“ Padelli - might not have been the best calling card possible, Benitez values his input highly.

      In an interview with Il Giornale , Pederzoli recalls how the two met whilst he was representing the then Albacete boss Gigi Maifredi "common friends introduced us and he asked me to become his 'eyes' in Italy. We both said that it would be nice to work together one day and we're finally capable of doing so."

      The interview also offers an interesting insight on Benitez's character. "The Benitez that I first met is very similar to how he is at the moment: he thinks about football twenty four hours a day."

      Pederzoli also reveals Benitez's fascination with Italian football. "He describes Arrigo Sacchi as the greatest manager of the modern era. Rafa often came to Italy to meet him, to study his methods. They both have a lot of things in common: their attention to detail, the importance that they put closing down space and how they choose their players."

      In fact, it is drummed into all of the club's scouts that Benirez does not want flashy players but instead disciplines ones who are physically imposing. "He does not judge a striker simply by the number of goals that he scores. He wants players who are fair and tough. That is why Liverpool didn't have player sent off in the league.
      http://www.aliverpoolthing.com/2007/06/truth-behind-liverpools-italian-rumours.html

      RAFA'S BOOTROOM: MIKE MCGLYNN
      Jimmy Rice 10 December 2008
      Liverpoolfc.tv today continues its series of features on the men behind the Rafalution. This time we're looking at a boyhood Red who scours the UK for talent.

      From the Caledonian Stadium in Inverness to Home Park in Plymouth, there isn't a football ground in the country that assistant chief scout Mike McGlynn doesn't know like the back of his hand.
       
      As well as unearthing potential signings, the 53-year-old files reports on our opponents so Rafa Benitez knows exactly what to expect from any given fixture.
       
      All this means it's quite normal for McGlynn to attend five games a week.
       
      It's a tough job, but someone's got to do it...

      There's bound to be a lot of fans out there who want to know how to land a job like yours, Mike. Tell them...
       
      Well, I worked for the FA for 20 years. I am a qualified senior FA coach. Then I worked for West Ham for seven years as their northern scout. I used to like that because I got to go to Anfield. Frank McParland, who used to work as chief scout here, knew me from this and my coaching and he asked me to get involved as a part-time scout. I did that for four years until I became full-time in 2007.
       
      Tell me about a typical day in the life of Mike McGlynn...
       
      It depends on where we are in the week. The bulk of my work is doing team assessments. I go to look at games, then report on them and liaise with the technical department. Part of my work is to coordinate some of the other scouts doing reports in the UK. The other aspect of my job is scouting players in the UK. It's probably 60/40 ā€“ 40 per cent spent scouting players. If the opposition aren't playing I'm looking at potential players. There's me and another three scouts working round the country. I'll coordinate which players they go to watch, so I need to keep on top of potential players through websites and other media. I also talk to people like Malcolm Elias at the Academy to see if they've recognised any good players down there, and we get a lot of DVDs coming in of players. We put everything in a database and ultimately report things to (chief scout) Eduardo Macia.
       
      Okay, talk us through the process from when you first spot a player to them signingā€¦
       
      There were a couple last year who we watched all through the season. It is that constant. You're monitoring someone over a period of games and then there comes a time when you stick your head out and say, 'Would you sign this player?' The biggest difference I have found at Liverpool is that you are now dealing with the top four. You've got to look at players who can play Champions League. There are a lot of good players but there's a step up. When I was at West Ham you looked at players and said, 'Yes, they'll do'. You could often look in the Championship and think players could make the step up. But here it's a different level.
       
      We haven't always had the resources of, say, Man Utd and Chelsea over the last couple of years. I suppose that makes your job even more important, doesn't it?
       
      Yes, you are always looking for a diamond, but even then you can be priced out of the market. Every Premier League club is aware of the best young British players, but the price of that potential can be very high and a bit of a gamble. But Chelsea and United have the finances to take that chance, which then inflates the market even more, so that's why it's very important that we continue to develop our own players through the Academy.

      When you're scouting players, are you looking solely at what they do on the pitch or are you trying to find out what they are like as a person?

      Yes, we talk to people in the game about what certain players are like. Someone always knows someone. More and more clubs will let you go in and watch players train for a week. That's because, for example, a League Two club would welcome a Manchester United or Chelsea or Liverpool being interested in one of their players. We do a lot of research and get as much information as we can on players by whatever means are necessary. There are a lot of scouts on the circuit and people will talk. You even get fans ringing you to tell you things. You end up building a picture. You really need the background about what a player is like mentally.

      I imagine your task is made even harder because of the fact Rafa knows so much about the game and knows every player out thereā€¦

      Yes, he knows so much. You think you know a player but you can't pre-guess Rafa. But you still have to sit there in the stand and watch a player over a period of games. The leg work always needs to be done.

      Do you get fans saying to you, 'Sign this player'? How do you respond to that?

      Yes, we're not just looking for good players; we're looking for players who would fit in here. We need players who'll fit into the system. I basically say to them, 'Yes, he's a good player but how much would he cost? What would we have to sacrifice?' My friends don't like me in this respect, because I don't give anything away. But no, I know from Eduardo Macia what type of players we want and that's how we go about it.

      Okay, how many games do you go to a week?

      My average during last season was about four and a half games a week live. I went to more than 160 games last season all round the country.

      You must be raking in the expenses...

      [Laughs] There are long trips but you try to create a balance. With the opposition scouting trips there's a few to Portsmouth each season and a few to London. We try to balance it round.

      Is it right you're used to the travelling, though, because you used to go around the country as a Liverpool fan?

      Yes, I used to travel all over the place. I still have to pinch myself that I got this job. A lot of my friends and family are big Liverpool fans and still go to the games. They don't like me going with them now because I'm an anorak! To be honest, because of the way my job works, I very rarely get to see Liverpool. The fan is still in there but it's only come through once while I've been doing the job, and that was in the 2006 FA Cup final when Steven Gerrard scored and I jumped up. Usually you have to sit there and be very analytical. I still enjoy my football but you watch it in a different way.

      How do you mean?

      Well, I'm looking for strengths and weaknesses and patterns of play. I am looking at everything that will help us prepare to play a team.

      Do you not get a bit sick of it after a while ā€“ match after match?

      When the end of season break came in May, the first week was good, but then it was a case of 'Thank goodness for the Euros'. My job's great. Having been a fan for so many years, to actually now be part of it is unbelievable. But you know, I passed my full coaching badge in 1988 and I thought that was it but nothing happened. I ended up coaching grass roots football. I had to be a journeyman coach round the non-league, but now it has happened for me. This time as a full-time scout here has been a massive learning curve for me. You have to go up a level.
      http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/features/this_season/FN13305081112-1316.htm

      RAFA'S BOOTROOM: EDUARDO MACIA
      Paul Hassall 24 July 2008
      In the latest in our series of in-depth chats with members of Rafael Benitez's Melwood staff we spoke to chief scout Eduardo Macia about life at Liverpool.

      Whether he's scouring Europe for the next big thing or casting a keen eye over the latest South American superstar, Eduardo Macia knows exactly what he wants when it comes to signing the right player for Liverpool.
       
      In an in-depth interview with Liverpoolfc.tv he talks openly about his success with Rafael Benitez at Valencia, how he came to join the Reds and how he is playing his part in trying to secure a golden future for the club.
       
      Eduardo, you've been at the club since 2006 as Chief Scout. How did you come to join Liverpool?
       
      Well, Rafa was trying to procure me every day. I met him through Valencia and then he asked me to come here. Rafa said I need a chief scout to head up our global scouting network. He wanted to build up the system. That's not to say I wasn't happy where I was. I was very happy in Valencia. It was a good life that I really enjoyed. So coming here was a big decision. If I hadn't been happy in Spain then it would have been an easy choice to come to England. But it wasn't easy, although I do think I made the right choice. Along with the decision to get married this was the biggest choice I've ever had to make in my life. My dad was a fan of Liverpool and he told me all about Dalglish, Hansen and Phil Thompson. In Spain before the Premier League started we'd get one English game on TV every month and it was nearly always Liverpool. So for me the club had a mythical quality about it. Now to be working for this club and with these people makes me feel like I'm very lucky. People tell me that all the time.
       
      What about your time at Valencia. You were very successful there...
       
      We won the league with a fantastic team. There were a lot of young players involved like Marchena, Baraja, Vicente, Angulo, Albelda... From that Rafa knew I could help him build a strong squad. We won two league titles in Spain and the UEFA Cup in the space of three years. That was despite the fact that Barcelona, Real Madrid, Deportivo and Atletico all had more money than us. But we were working with the idea of combining all the older players such as Carboni, Anglomar, Luque with the up and coming players. With those guys we knew we had a foundation to build a great team.
       
      What about your future with Liverpool?
       
      Now we are building for the future here. We've brought in a lot of young players in the last few years. Guys who are 16, 17, 18 years old and they all have the mentality we want. That's why they won the reserve league last season. We know they can still improve as players, but they have the right mentality. Guys like Nemeth, San Jose, Bruna, Spearing, Darby, Insua, Gulacsi... Now we are hoping to add more players to that quality. It's a young side, in Spain it would be described as a B team. The idea is to provide first team players for the future so that when they are 20, 21, 22 they are ready for the Premier League. Another type of player we are bringing in is someone like Lucas Leiva who was one of the best young players in Brazil and then there's Ryan Babel. Both of them are in their early 20s and are players for the future. On the next level it's Javier Mascherano, Fernando Torres, Martin Skrtel, Daniel Agger. They are still young, but have lots of experience and can go straight into the first team and should be here for many years. The idea is that in the future we will be bringing through enough players for the first team that the manager might only need to buy one or two players every summer. He won't need to go out and sign four or five. Steven Gerrard, Carra, Sami Hyypia and Finnan are all fantastic veterans. And we've tried to add to that with guys like Kuyt, Alonso, Reina and tried to unite the team. It's not possible to spend Ā£200m to win the Premier League. We can't do that so we have another way. Now Rafa is happy with the young players we have and wants to continue improving the senior squad.

      You talk about looking for players with the right mentality. Do you feel the Liverpool squad have the same winning mentality as the Valencia team you were involved with?
       
      This group of players we have now is one of the best I've seen during my time here. I think it's better than the squad we had at Valencia when we won the league and UEFA Cup in 2004. That was nearly five years ago now and the level of football has gone up since then. The game has progressed a lot in such a short space of time. That's what we've got to keep doing, improving. If you're not then you're going backwards. Even when you win something you've still got to try and become better by bringing in more quality. For example, Lucas Leiva says give me the ball, even if I make a mistake I'm not afraid to take responsibility in big games. That's the mentality we require; strong players who can think for themselves and don't need to be told what to do. They are clever guys who can make their own decisions on the pitch and help you win games. Mentality of the player is the most important thing. There are probably a million players with quality in the world. That's not enough. I don't want someone who is fantastic in September and November. I want someone who is fantastic all year round. If you want to be a successful team you need players who can still be at their best when it comes to the end of the season and the big games arrive almost every few days. It's not a matter of quality. You can improve a player's fitness, technique and make them tactically better. What you can't do is give them the mentality. You can be a fantastic player at a lower level team but if you want to come here then you've got to be a winner. When you play for a big club, particularly in the Premier League, everyone else will be doing their utmost to beat you every weekend. You've got to be able to deal with that and produce 100 per cent every week.
       
      Can you explain to us how your scouting network works?
       
      We have scouts located all over the world. They live in the country that they cover. That's the way we like it to be. If you are based in England and just travel over to watch the player you don't get the full picture. It's easy to see if a player is performing well or not. We want to know everything about the player, not just how he performs. For example, Lucas Leiva, our scout watched him and asked lots of different people about him. Then we spent two weeks in Brazil watching him training as well as playing. From that we hope to be certain about a player. Of course you can still make a mistake but this method reduces the chances. Sometimes even when you know everything you can still get it wrong. There are lots of factors to consider, such as language, wife or girlfriend not settling in a new country. You can still get it wrong, but we hope to make the least number of mistakes. And it's not only a system we use when signing first team players, we also use it for bringing in younger lads. If you are 17 or 23 it doesn't matter. If your family is not okay or your mentality isn't right then it won't work. So we spend a lot of time gathering lots of info on possible signings.

      What qualities do you look for in your scouts?
       
      They've got to be totally professional. The scouts who work for us are not friends of mine. I never work with friends. We use guys who have worked for big clubs like Real Madrid or been a sporting director in Italy and been at the biggest club in Brazil. They are all very experienced, strong people. They don't say maybe, they give definite answers on players. They are usually the best scouts in each country. I think the best scouts should find you the best players. Being discreet is very important. Nobody can know who you are. I try to stay out of the spotlight because it's more beneficial if people don't recognise my face. I don't like to be in the newspaper. If they know you then they will be able to know what player you are looking at. You are working for your club, nobody else so it's important not to show other clubs what you're doing. You will have Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Inter, Milan, Juventus, Bayern Munich and Lyon all chasing the same players. They are all powerful clubs with a lot of money so you have to make sure everything you do is secret. The scouts can't be telling anyone they work for the club. So if your scouts can stay discreet it helps.
       
      Would you say scouting is something of an art form?
       
      No. Football is not a science, therefore scouting can't be either. It's all about decisions and relationships. One and one doesn't always add up to two in football. What you think will work doesn't always and vice versa. For example Ryan Babel's impact in the Arsenal Champions League game. 44,000 people in Anfield and they all have different ideas about what to do after Arsenal score. We're going out of the competition and then Rafa sends on Ryan Babel. Within seconds he's won a penalty and then he scores a goal. That is something that's beyond your control. So a scout can never be 100 per cent sure that a player will go on to be a success in the first team. But you've got to find players who have all the requirements to do that.
       
      How many times will you watch a player before deciding whether he is the right man for Liverpool?
       
      Sometimes five times, sometimes ten. Sometimes twice and you are sure because you already know everything about him. Normally we watch them five, six or maybe seven times - and it's not just me. At the end, when you hand the report to Rafa you have to be certain. I have to convince Rafa that this player is right for Liverpool. He is the most difficult one to convince. You have to believe in the player's capabilities. If Rafa isn't sure and you're not convinced yourself then the player will never be signed. When you are starting out it's a long process. Sometimes it's more difficult to find younger players rather than senior guys. When they are 16, 17 years of age they play less games. So making a decision with the scout, working with Rafa, and then finalising the move with Rick Parry is a very long process. When you are watching the unveiling press conference everyone is very happy. You are relaxed at that stage. That is a fantastic feeling. People are very happy when the player signs. They say: 'yes, we've signed a new player,' but behind the scenes it's a difficult process.

      How does your family cope with your job. I assume your job involves very long hours...
       
      I never stop. Even at the weekends I am still going to watch a game on a Saturday and Sunday. It could be an U17 or U19 UEFA tournament. Or during the season I might be attending a Champions League game on Tuesday and Wednesday and then a UEFA Cup game on a Thursday. It's a special job that you have to love a lot. If you don't then it would become impossible. I don't see much of my family, although they are very happy here. When my wife and young twins went to Spain recently she said it was too hot. That shows how accustomed they've become to life here. Another problem is the language. I try to teach them Spanish and also the dialect from my home town. While they're obviously learning English now. It gets very confusing at times. When they started saying: 'ta' for thank you I didn't know what they were talking about because I'd never heard of it! But I love this job and I'm proud to work for the club; it's a price worth paying.
       
      What does an average day at Melwood involve for you?
       
      We start with a breakfast meeting when we talk about everything that has to be done. I have to organise the scouting team. Some days I chat with Rafa and update him on different players. It's not a typical office routine. It varies from day to day. Scouting is not set every day. You are working looking for players and everything can change quickly. For example you might plan to watch an U18 game but if the player you are checking on doesn't feature then you can't work. It means you always need a plan b and sometimes even a plan c. You have to be flexible.
      http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/features/this_season/FN13191080724-1204-3.htm
      corballyred
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      Re: Our scouting network
      Reply #12: Sep 11, 2009 08:23:40 pm
      Wouldn't be a big fan of our scouting system they haven't being that successful with players in the last ten years, since the days of us Gerrard, Carragher and Owen we have being very bare when it comes to players coming through to the first team.
      Eem
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      Re: Our scouting network
      Reply #13: Sep 11, 2009 10:19:02 pm
      Wouldn't be a big fan of our scouting system they haven't being that successful with players in the last ten years, since the days of us Gerrard, Carragher and Owen we have being very bare when it comes to players coming through to the first team.

      That's not the scouting network alone. That's also the youth system. The scouting network involves all new players brought to the club.
      corballyred
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      Re: Our scouting network
      Reply #14: Sep 11, 2009 11:28:37 pm
      I know but in relation to the young players that have being brought to the club and we are talking hundreds here they have failed the club miserably in the last ten years.

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