Let's bash Lucas thread

NB: This topic title was created by the forum staff and not by the forum user who supplied the first post

Are you serious he only gave the ball away three times, isn't that flaming obvious why as a lot of people on here have being saying he either passes the ball 5 yards sideways or backwards.

Thats Lucas problem he won't give the ball away that much but at the same time he will do nothing either with it. He has a complete lack of creative ability. I've being critised for saying he wouldn't get in a Wenger team because you either have exceptional physical attributes ie pace or strength.

 Someone said I obviously don't think Torres wouldn't get in the Arsenal team then, that is complete sh'te, Torres possess excellant pace, he was clocked as the joint 3rd fastest player in the premiership alongside Drogba last season. He is also techinically gifted. So ya I think he would walk in an Arsenal team.

Some people seem to be confused as well with what I said, I said you had to have one of these attributes for a Wenger team not both. Fabergas is an exceptional techinical player, Denilison is a lot more techinically gifted than Lucas. Diaby and Song are phyisically very strong players. Lucas has neither. I can go into the Viera, Petit era to prove my point but I won't.

I love the way people say they don't give a sh#t about Fairclough opinion. To be honest would be shocked if any Liverpool fan didn't respect his opinion. He talks a lot more sense than a lot of lads on here.

I bet Gerrard could pass 5 yards backwards and sideways all day but lucky for us he is a braver player than that and has being setting goals up for us the last ten years. Gerrard has vision, Alonso has vision, Lucas has very little vision and that is why it goes sideways or backwards. It is called creativity.

I will leave the last word to the Anfield Iron - Tommy Smith

"In midfield, we were crowded out and couldn’t do anything expect pass sideways or backwards. Lucas was standing there dong nothing most of the time – I’ve got two bad legs so I could do that!" Liverpool Echo 26/8/09

If I was Lucas id be terrified to do anything other then 5 yard passes. Hes not thick he knows if tried a 40 yarder and the player he passed to miscontrolled it that it would be lucas gets it in the neck.

Fact is a huge percent of the crowd have it in for him so much that even if he scored a last minute winner he still wouldnt be doing enough

So ye are allowed come on and disagree with us here but we can't do it on the other thread.

If I was Lucas id be terrified to do anything other then 5 yard passes. Hes not thick he knows if tried a 40 yarder and the player he passed to miscontrolled it that it would be lucas gets it in the neck.

Fact is a huge percent of the crowd have it in for him so much that even if he scored a last minute winner he still wouldnt be doing enough

Yeah, but there's not much chance him doing that, is there?

Being sh*t-scared is no way to act as a professional footballer being paid (I don't know how many) thousands of pounds every week.  If all he can do is pass the ball 5 yards, what F***ing use is he to us?

You are probably right, plenty of people will think him unworthy no matter what he does, but he could at least TRY to change their minds.  Performances like Villa and Spurs will not make anyone alter their feelings about him.

I appreciate that he played better against Stoke, but so what?  They are a poor team that we would have thrashed even if I was playing in his place.  It's all well and good looking fantastic against inferior opposition, but when the chips are down and the midfield is filled with half-decent players, Liverpool cannot afford to have Lucas (or anyone) go into their shell and be carried.

I don't rate him, never have.  I will never boo him, as some have done, when he is wearing our Red, but I wish we had Alonso, Danny Murphy or even Biscan instead.

This thread's been due!

Hang on a minute my moved post was quoting Tommy Smith's opinion - what give you the right to determine what is Lucas bashing and what is people stating a valid opinion??

Hang on a minute my moved post was quoting Tommy Smith's opinion - what give you the right to determine what is Lucas bashing and what is people stating a valid opinion??

That is not discussing his development that is finding someone who does not approve of Lucas playing in midfield.

I disagree I think it is discussing his development or lack of actually

I disagree I think it is discussing his development or lack of actually

Quoting a line from Tommy Smith as the 'final word' is discussing his development?

I bet Gerrard could pass 5 yards backwards and sideways all day but lucky for us he is a braver player than that and has being setting goals up for us the last ten years. Gerrard has vision, Alonso has vision, Lucas has very little vision and that is why it goes sideways or backwards. It is called creativity.

Say what you like, we've created plenty of chances to win the games we lost. We've missed those chances because of wasteful finishing, or Torres lounging about on his arse.

I think the lack of so called creativity in our team is not Lucas' fault though.
It is the way we play, the way we move or the way we don't have great movement (off the ball movement) that is designed by the gaffer.

All of our so called creativity exist only in the head of Torres+Gerrard. It is pure reactive creativity, that is not taught by the manager.

Our team is based a rigid organization, a tight unit with a determined distance between players. We want to be compact, we move as a unit, but as a rigid unit, which eventually limit the movement of the players.

In the final third, our method is predictable, bring the ball out wide and then at the edge of the penalty box, send a hopeful highball for Torres to bounce and expect someone from us to pounce the second ball.

People can easily blame the players, but the same players, the same way of play, more or less the same results, whether you accept it or not, this is the way we're going to use to win the title, not Arséne Wenger's way, neither it is Pep Guardiola's nor Alex Ferguson's way.

It was plain to see we lacked creativity against Villa, if you want to know what I mean go back and watch the Villa match four months ago when we had Xabi there, compare the matches and you'll see what I mean.

Don't like this thread sorry. Yeah Lucas has been poor, but using him as a scapegoat it seems for our poor start seems wrong to me. Our whole team has been poor, and thus we shouldn't be bashing just Lucas. We might as well make a bash Stevie thread for the game on Monday
Saying that, i do believe maybe it's time to maybe take a punt on Spearing, Lucas may just need a week off as i'd say he would be feeling alot of pressure at the moment, might be detrimental to play under that. Sorry if not bashing him went off topic

Lucas is the best central midfielder in the world right now, how I ever doubted his ability I never know he's awesome he can pass sidewards and backwards and get himself out of the sh*t following a poor first touch his ability to boss dominate and control our midfield is something else and he should be knighted given to the keys to the city and introduced the legends hall of fame immediately as he's progressed so much from last year.  

Lucas is the best central midfielder in the world right now, how I ever doubted his ability I never know he's awesome he can pass sidewards and backwards and get himself out of the sh*t following a poor first touch his ability to boss dominate and control our midfield is something else and he should be knighted given to the keys to the city and introduced the legends hall of fame immediately as he's progressed so much from last year. 

This isn't the knee-jerk thread

After that DEBACLE on Monday night this thread should be titled the 'Lets Bash The Whole First XI Thread'

But whatever floats your boat i guess.

This isn't the knee-jerk thread

I know mate but i'm sick of saying the reasons for why he is not good enough for our starting XI not that I'm bashing him just giving my opinion, then being jumped on by the "we love Lucas Leiva brigade" everytime you say something that is contradictory to his development, so if you can't be arsed with them with them join them

its catch 22 for lucas  he needs to put in a superb performance to get the crowd back on his side but the lad lacks confidence allways taking the easy option , i have said in a previous post about him going on loan to a championship club to learn how to deal with the hurly burly of the english game even if it is for 6 months to get his confidence back as he feels a bit  intimedated by the anfield crowd .

I know mate but I'm sick of saying the reasons for why he is not good enough for our starting XI not that I'm bashing him just giving my opinion, then being jumped on by the "we love Lucas Leiva brigade" everytime you say something that is contradictory to his development, so if you can't be arsed with them with them join them

Amen brother I see good and bad with Lucas, but making him a scapegoat is wrong IMO. The whole team is in need of improvement at the moment. I'm sure if the team was playing well Lucas would, he's the type of player who feeds off others good play i feel, not one who can take a game up on his own unfortunately.

In all fairness and as someone who has tried many times to defend him he is sh*te.

F**k his development.
He simply isn't good enough and barring a miracle, he will remain sh*t!

Through the 80's, I was blessed to see such wonderful players don our great Red shirt, and now we have to supress our dismay at someone who should be playing for Bolton, not us.

We shouldn't be subjected to such crap. Our glorious club is above that. Get him out.

Not good enough, by a long shot.

People can spout all the statistics they like about Lucas but basing what I have seen of him in a red shirt, I can safely form my own opinion that Lucas isn't good enough for a place in the starting XI and that even includes now without Aquilani.  I don't really care if Lucas only gave the ball away 3 times to Gerrards' 17 because I know Gerrard is a million times the player Lucas is or ever will be and Gerrard will influence our team more than Lucas can even wet dream about.  Lucas on a good day is solid when the whole team is playing well and thats all you're ever gonna get from him.  Sorry guys, this is the Lucas bashing thread after all so I'll be honest about what I think of him as a player.

Btw I posted in the Steven Gerrard player thread straight after the match on Monday night saying how sh*t he was before I even moved onto the Lucas thread.  Not my fault people would rather talk about Lucas.

To be fair to Rafa though, he persisted with Dirk Kuyt when alot of fans used him as a scapegoat, so perhaps this will pay off with Lucas too.  I have my doubts though.

My dad has followed us since the fifty,s so he has seen good and bad times he has always had the opinion that Lucas will never be good enough for the starting eleven every week,although i have tried to persuade him otherwise ,while at anfield i will always support him while on the pitch because i believe thats what you should do ,however i am starting to lean towards my dads opinion ,they say old age dont come by itself with it comes a little wisdom ,perhaps my dad is right time will tell ,but the one factor about mondays game from which we cant escape is that Lucas didnt make us miss all those chances ,and thats what cost us three points not the fact that he was sh*te as well as the rest of the team on the night.

People can spout all the statistics they like about Lucas but basing what I have seen of him in a red shirt, I can safely form my own opinion that Lucas isn't good enough for a place in the starting XI and that even includes now without Aquilani.  I don't really care if Lucas only gave the ball away 3 times to Gerrards' 17 because I know Gerrard is a million times the player Lucas is or ever will be and Gerrard will influence our team more than Lucas can even wet dream about.  Lucas on a good day is solid when the whole team is playing well and thats all you're ever gonna get from him. 

Agree with all that

I really don't like the way Lucas wears really thin hair bands sometimes. Midfielders who wear hairbands are rubbish. Rafa should drop him unless he either ties back his hair like Voronin or gets a sensible haircut like GI Jane.
I hope Aquilani doesn't have a hairband or we're truly f**ked.

I really don't like the way Lucas wears really thin hair bands sometimes. Midfielders who wear hairbands are rubbish.

WTF?? 

I really don't like the way Lucas wears really thin hair bands sometimes. Midfielders who wear hairbands are rubbish.

Yeah cos that Patrik Berger was sh*te as well wasn't he?

All credability gone. Will never take a post from you serious again

I'm not his biggest fan but i think he is a decent squad member as someone said we haven't had a lack of creativity so far this season we just havent finished anything that isn't his fault

All credability gone. Will never take a post from you serious again

Groan.
Like that was serious...
Won't post to this thread again.

All credability gone. Will never take a post from you serious again

Too right.

Cant beleive the stick Lucas is getting here. The team lost against Villa not just Lucas.

Cant beleive the stick Lucas is getting here. The team lost against Villa not just Lucas.

Yes but people like to use Lucas as a scapegoat and view him as an easy target because he is unproven. His mistake was no where near like Gerrard's yet i have seen no one slating Gerrard.

I think the lack of so called creativity in our team is not Lucas' fault though.
It is the way we play, the way we move or the way we don't have great movement (off the ball movement) that is designed by the gaffer.

All of our so called creativity exist only in the head of Torres+Gerrard. It is pure reactive creativity, that is not taught by the manager.

Our team is based a rigid organization, a tight unit with a determined distance between players. We want to be compact, we move as a unit, but as a rigid unit, which eventually limit the movement of the players.

In the final third, our method is predictable, bring the ball out wide and then at the edge of the penalty box, send a hopeful highball for Torres to bounce and expect someone from us to pounce the second ball.

People can easily blame the players, but the same players, the same way of play, more or less the same results, whether you accept it or not, this is the way we're going to use to win the title, not Arséne Wenger's way, neither it is Pep Guardiola's nor Alex Ferguson's way.

Well said.  We've been playing games in an extremely slow pace stroking the ball as if we're playing a friendly, even at 3-1 down. No imagination, speed nor aggression to break down the opposition defence. Yes, we've no Arséne Wenger's way, Pep Guardiola's nor Alex Ferguson's, now carlos Ancelotti's way, simply because we don't have the players to do that and the gaffer's tactics is not an aggressive and creative one, sad to say. We pass and pass and pass the ball until the oposition defense locked all doors and threw away the keys.  Look again  at the scums, arse, chelsi tactics, they're all about aggression and creativity.  The scums are playiing the same way as we played in the 70s and 80s. Why Rafa needs to do something very different here, I'm lost. Kenny was at the box in the last game, maybe he go tell Rafa a thing or two.

In summary, we don't have the players to play great football coupled with the tactics deployed by the gaffer is not helping. A total revamp of the tactics is needed if we want to play catch up now. I really hate to hear what the gaffer has got to say like .... oh they're difficult opponents, there're still many more games to go, the season is still early, the pace setters will drop points. I'd say sheer nonsense, concentrate more on our own game, lets move 10x faster in our game, improve our passing 10x better, more creative, close down the opponents at every given opportunity and be more aggressive. Lastly, our passing and positioning is pathetic, one just wonder what they do on the training pitch, just some warm up exercise?

Is this thread like a knee-jerking joke thing, or is it really serious?

Is this thread like a knee-jerking joke thing, or is it really serious?

It's like really serious, there is a Lucas Leiva Development thread on here, but when you say anything on there that contradicts with the Lucas Leiva Brigades theory that he's suddenly come on leaps and bounds and has become a world class player and merits a regular starting XI spot in our squad, you are set up on by a bunch of Lucas Leiva loving rabid wolves, then a Bash Lucas thread is made up by them for having an opinion that differs theirs.... hope that clears it up for you.......

I really don't like the way Lucas wears really thin hair bands sometimes. Midfielders who wear hairbands are rubbish. Rafa should drop him unless he either ties back his hair like Voronin or gets a sensible haircut like GI Jane.
I hope Aquilani doesn't have a hairband or we're truly f**ked.

I like the sarcasm buddy.....nice post. 

Yes but people like to use Lucas as a scapegoat and view him as an easy target because he is unproven. His mistake was no where near like Gerrard's yet i have seen no one slating Gerrard.

I did

It's like really serious, there is a Lucas Leiva Development thread on here, but when you say anything on there that contradicts with the Lucas Leiva Brigades theory that he's suddenly come on leaps and bounds and has become a world class player and merits a regular starting XI spot in our squad, you are set up on by a bunch of Lucas Leiva loving rabid wolves, then a Bash Lucas thread is made up by them for having an opinion that differs theirs.... hope that clears it up for you.......

Just like when you say something positive in that thread, you are the one who hounds people about why they are tw*ts for saying something positive.

I like this thread, i think it'll help alot of people who see the good side in a player discuss those good points without being harassed.

I did

Just like when you say something positive in that thread, you are the one who hounds people about why they are tw*ts for saying something positive.

Lets go back to the Lucas Leiva Development Thread, I posted One comment Saying that Lucas was not good enough to Merit a regular spot in our Starting XI, it was people like you and the "We all love Lucas so you can not say anything bad about him Brigade" that jumped on my back for saying it, I have not called any one a tw*t or implied that any one is a tw*t so that statement is just as ridiculous as trying to convince yourself Lucas has suddenly become a world class central midfilelder.

My First negative post about Lucas follows it was not a direct reply to any one elses feeling on Lucas  and it did not imply any one who's opinion differed mine was a tw*t, it was just an honest assesment of my feelings on Lucas based on what I had seen, anything else that followed was because of all the Die Hrad Lucas fans jumping on my back for having an opinion that differed that theirs.

 

RedLFCBlood Re: Lucas Leiva Development Thread
« Reply #2051 on: August 25, 2009, 12:01:47 AM »      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As I have said in the match thread over the three games of this season I have watched Lucas closely more to do with whom he's replacing and in all honesty he lacks the ability to dominate and control the midfield, he plays too many back and sidewards passes and lacks the vision to move the ball forward quickly with purpose. I'm not saying he's sh*t, he's a descent squad player, but first choice central midfielder for a club with title ambitions no he's not well not IMO.

In the games we have been poor in (Tottenham & Villa ) the midfield battle had been lost, in both games Lucas was taken off and Gerrard was moved into the centre and in both instances we looked a much better unit with Gerrard in the centre of the park and that is no coincidence IMO.

That was just my Opinion nothing else... I rest my case

No, i rest my case.

No, I rest my case.

You mean you have no answer to that, so the easiest get out for you is the reply you have just posted and as a moderator you have just shown yourself to be a poor one at that.

As all you are saying to me is your opinion is right as you have moderators status under your user name and any ones who's opinion differs yours is subject to being dismissed as having anything credible to say, it's a f**king joke mate and I'm laughing at your immaturity.

You mean you have no answer to that, so the easiest get out for you is the reply you have just posted and as a moderator you have just shown yourself to be a poor one at that.

As all you are saying to me is your opinion is right as you have moderators status under your user name and any ones who's opinion differs yours is subject to being dismissed as having anything credible to say, it's a f**king joke mate and I'm laughing at your immaturity.

How paranoid can you get mate? You probably dont even get what i meant by that comment and now you turn it into a personal defamation because i'm one of the staff. More are probably laughing at you than with you.

My point was that i cannot say anything without you coming back and trying to further prove your point for the 58th time and then you did it again. Now you've done it once again.

Get a life.

BACK ON TOPIC

My point was that I cannot say anything without you coming back and trying to further prove your point for the 58th time and then you did it again.

how can you say that, I said this ....................

It's like really serious, there is a Lucas Leiva Development thread on here, but when you say anything on there that contradicts with the Lucas Leiva Brigades theory that he's suddenly come on leaps and bounds and has become a world class player and merits a regular starting XI spot in our squad, you are set up on by a bunch of Lucas Leiva loving rabid wolves, then a Bash Lucas thread is made up by them for having an opinion that differs theirs.... hope that clears it up for you.......

and you felt the need to reply with this........

I did

Just like when you say something positive in that thread, you are the one who hounds people about why they are tw*ts for saying something positive.

I like this thread, I think it'll help alot of people who see the good side in a player discuss those good points without being harassed.

But it's ok I understand for your own importance you feel you need to have the last word on everything and if your not allowed that , you make assumptions that people have dissed players or implied that Ive hounded people for being tw*ts etc for not agreeing with my opinion arf arf... but all people have to do is look at the Lucas Leiva development page from page 38 onwards to see the truth mate

We should make a lets bash the Lucas bashers thread.

RedLFCBlood, you've just done it again mate. Just please stop, i said back on topic. Keep doing it and you could get banned, buddy.

BACK ON TOPIC

RedLFCBloody, you've just done it again mate. Just please stop, I said back on topic. Keep doing it and you could get banned, buddy.

BACK ON TOPIC

@ threat ... I've proved my point, I'm just replying to your comments, but obviously that is not allowed as your right and I'm wrong

Back on Topic......

In no way shape or form am I bashing Lucas, I have said he is a good squad player, but I am of the opinion he is not of the quality to merit a regular starting slot in our First XI he may be ok against the lesser teams granted, but against the Tottenhams and the Villa's, Teams with a little more bite in the center of the pitch, I'd rather we utilised Gerrard as a central midfielder and played Yossi behind Torres.

In no way shape or form am I bashing Lucas, I have said he is a good squad player, but I am of the opinion he is not of the quality to merit a regular starting slot in our First XI he may be ok against the lesser teams granted, but against the Tottenhams and the Villa's, Teams with a little more bite in the center of the pitch, I'd rather we utilised Gerrard as a central midfielder and played Yossi behind Torres.

We can only judge him on this season and who else would you put in his position? Rafa has a massive decision to make with the centre mid spot. Should he break the Gerrard/Torres partnership and put Gerrard back or should he just keep Lucas or replace him with Spearing.

Either way he runs the risk of being harassed for it.

Lucas is only playing due to an injury to Aquilani - i have no doubt Lucas will drop back when Aquilani is match fit.

We can only judge him on this season and who else would you put in his position? Rafa has a massive decision to make with the centre mid spot. Should he break the Gerrard/Torres partnership and put Gerrard back or should he just keep Lucas or replace him with Spearing.

Either way he runs the risk of being harassed for it.

Lucas is only playing due to an injury to Aquilani - I have no doubt Lucas will drop back when Aquilani is match fit.

Just sent you a pm Crouchie hope everything is cleared up....

Totally agree with you that we should only judge him on this season and thats exactly what I have done, I have not once said Lucas is Sh*te, or he should be bombed out of the club, to the contrary I have said he is a good squad player albeit little else... In the Lucas development thread I have said I hope he succeeds here at Liverpool, but at the moment he has done nothing to convince he merits a regular starting spot.

You are right again with the way results have panned out Rafa is in a no win situation as his next move will be scrutinised even more so if we do not get a result against Bolton and that is my reason for suggesting Gerrard should play centrally, I'd even be willing to give Lucas a shot at the Gerrad role for one or two games as he does class himself as more of an attacking midfilder, I also think with Gerrard centrally and Lucas in Gerrards role we'd still have enough productivity to get a few goals and what better way to try something new than against a so called lesser club.

wiki: "Lucas also became the youngest player to ever to receive Placar magazine's Bola de Ouro (Golden Ball), given to the best player in the Campeonato Brasileiro — an honour previously won by the likes of Zico, Falcão, Careca, Alex, Fowi, Romario, Kaká and Tevez."

used to dislike him too, then I read up Rafa's views and comments, studied his game more closely in pre-season & past 3 games.. I think I can understand whr Rafa is coming from and why he rates him so highly.

bashers - for the next few games (if he starts), study his movements off the ball, and how he shifts into higher posts when attacking, and sprints back the moment we lose the ball, look at the amount of work he's putting in.

we gave kuyt 2 years didnt we? babel has all the abilities, but can Rafa change his attitude? lucas has all the attitude, I trust Rafa in bringing out his abilities.

wiki: "Lucas also became the youngest player to ever to receive Placar magazine's Bola de Ouro (Golden Ball), given to the best player in the Campeonato Brasileiro — an honour previously won by the likes of Zico, Falcão, Careca, Alex, Fowi, Romario, Kaká and Tevez."

used to dislike him too, then i read up Rafa's views and comments, studied his game more closely in pre-season & past 3 games.. i think i can understand whr Rafa is coming from and why he rates him so highly.

bashers - for the next few games (if he starts), study his movements off the ball, and how he shifts into higher posts when attacking, and sprints back the moment we lose the ball, look at the amount of work he's putting in.

we gave kuyt 2 years didnt we? babel has all the abilities, but can Rafa change his attitude? lucas has all the attitude, I thrust Rafa in bringing out his abilities.

I dont know what your asking Rafa to do there

A very fair way of looking at it, mate.

I dont know what your asking Rafa to do there

A very fair way of looking at it, mate.

now u know how much i lurrrvve him!  

bashers - for the next few games (if he starts), study his movements off the ball, and how he shifts into higher posts when attacking, and sprints back the moment we lose the ball, look at the amount of work he's putting in.

In all honesty thats a very fair assesment of his contribution in our games, as he does make some cracking runs from deep into the box, but the players around have either 1 failed to notice him or 2 decided he is not the best option for what ever reason.

No one is doubing his attitude, work ethic commitement to the club running off the ball his tackling ability etc, well I'm not, My only gripe is his ability to take the game by the scruff of the neck and control and dominate the midfield...

Being reasonable I can say Mascherano has  not entirley helped in that situation either, but I would say Lucas needs to play the ball forward with more urgency as he is filling the "deep lying play maker" role, I'm all for keeping possesion but why keep on playing 5 yard sidewards and back wards passes is beyond me and it showed the negative effect this was having when Nando and Gerrard were having to come deep to pick up the ball.........

Being reasonable I can say Mascherano has  not entirley helped in that situation either, but I would say Lucas needs to play the ball forward with more urgency as he is filling the "deep lying play maker" role, I'm all for keeping possesion but why keep on playing 5 yard sidewards and back wards passes is beyond me and it showed the negative effect this was having when Nando and Gerrard were having to come deep to pick up the ball.........

Could it be Rafa's instruction to "go easy" with the passing (let Masch and the defence deal with it), and work on getting into positions?

Not ideal with Skrtel and Insua, but we should see a more effective system when Agger and Aurelio are back.

cld it be Rafa's instruction to "go easy" with the passing (let mash and the def deal with it), and work on getting into positions?

In all honesty I very much doubt that, as if that was the case I'm %100 sure the other players would have been told be aware of Lucas making driving runs into the box and try and pick him out if that was Rafa's strategy......

OMG You just won't leave it alone will you. How many contributions to do you need to make on this one issue?

What are you going to post about when Aquilani is fit and in the first XI?

For fucks sake.  Did Lucas jilt you at the alter or something?

OMG You just won't leave it alone will you. How many contributions to do you need to make on this one issue?

What are you going to post about when Aquilani is fit and in the first XI?

For fucks sake.  Did Lucas jilt you at the alter or something?

ermmmmm wtf ? i'm contributing to the forum by replying to a member, is that not the whole purpouse of the forum ?, are you going to say the same thing to Crouchino?, as i'm sure he has had a similar amount of posts in this thread as I have.

No Lucas did not Jilt me at the altar, did you not know as a Liverpool Fan he married his sweetheart during the summer ?   

I'll post in other relevant threads as I have been this morning ...not only THIS ONE !!!!

Crouchinho I think instead of hammering other people opinions you should start giving reasons for your own opinion, I think your the worst offender on here for either criticising people or there opinion without giving any foundation for your own. I thought JD was giving out about this.

 RedBlood is giving his opinion your giving waffle back and you might be surprised to hear not everyone backs you. I think some of your answers are very condescending. Whether your a moderator or not you should be respecting peoples opinions. Not everyone is going to agree with you this is a forum. Sorry JD for going off topic rant over.

Crouchinho I think instead of hammering other people opinions you should start giving reasons for your own opinion, I think your the worst offender on here for either criticising people or there opinion without giving any foundation for your own. I thought JD was giving out about this.

 RedBlood is giving his opinion your giving waffle back and you might be surprised to hear not everyone backs you. I think some of your answers are very condescending. Whether your a moderator or not you should be respecting peoples opinions. Not everyone is going to agree with you this is a forum. Sorry JD for going off topic rant over.

People like Reslivo, JD and Eem have provided stats for my stance of the argument, if i was to repeat them then i would be a hypocrite wouldn't i?

I'm not going to go out of my way and fight to death to get a point across unlike others (this is not a shot at anyone in particular as there is more than a handful who do it). I do have a job to do on here and have to cver more than just one topic.

I think its very unfair what is going on look crouchinho you've a job to do but it's not to criticise other lads opinion but state your own giving reasons for it.

RedBlood may a lot of very good points which you agree with them or not they should be respected just feel you are giving waffle back to his opinion without given reasons for this.

Remember in general your in the minority of Liverpool fans on this issue this might not be the case on here but you should be giving a bit more respect to other lads opinions. And how come JD has picked on Red Blood here and not Crouchinho for posting is it because Crouchinho is a moderator or you don't agree with RedBlood opinions.

Remember in general your in the minority of Liverpool fans on this issue this might not be the case on here but you should be giving a bit more respect to other lads opinions. And how come JD has picked on Red Blood here and not Crouchinho for posting is it because Crouchinho is a moderator or you don't agree with RedBlood opinions.

That is a pathetic and ridiculous paragraph.

For the sake of the forum, i will make a thread where we can air out this 'problem'. It will be on the forum feeback board out of the way of everyone.

People do actually want to talk about the player and not read this nonsense from all of us.

Now, for the last time can we get back on topic please.

Is this another knee-jerk thread or are we really taking pot shots at Lucas?

Not so Fan'ny now is it? A fan should support not destroy a player's self esteem.

To be honest can't see Lucas logging in here to read this Solodee and I doubt anyone here has booed a Liverpool player at Anfield. So don't know how anything posted here will effect his self esteem. He is a professional footballer on a big wage he should be mentally strong enough to take any criticism that comes his way, he is at Liverpool where expectations are high.

Is this another knee-jerk thread or are we really taking pot shots at Lucas?

Not so Fan'ny now is it? A fan should support not destroy a player's self esteem.

This threads for people who have a pop at Lucas for no reason (I think). Opinions on his development (or lack of) with sensible reasons (no Fairclough this, Tommy Smith that) can be posted in the Lucas Leiva Development Thread.

Isn't it unbelieveable that there seems to be no respect for Tommy Smith or David Fairclough opinion, is that because they don't agree with you chats, chats I'll remember that you will obviously never quote anything you heard seen or written by anyone. They are Liverpool legends you should respect there opinions chat whether you agree with them or not.

I am not a fan of Lucas but I think it is time to leave him alone. Wouldn't we all be better off bashing one out than bashing Lucas???

Say what you like, we've created plenty of chances to win the games we lost. We've missed those chances because of wasteful finishing, or Torres lounging about on his arse.

Torres hasnt had any service because alonso's gone. He cant take on the whole team can he?

Back on topic. Let's look at the situation here shall we? The situation of Lucas Leiva. Now i don't really give a F**k that he won the  Bola de Ouro, that means nothing to me. That was in the past, the same past that people keep bringing up whenever i mention that person ( you know, the one that begins with an A and ends with an O). What is of importance is what Lucas can bring to the team now. He is under massive pressure at the moment, the pressure of replacing A#*+@o.

Now whether people like it or not these are the facts, Gerrard and Torres are having to drop deeper and deeper to get into the game and are not linking as high up the pitch as they were last season. The chances of Torres/Gerrard doing major damage from 20-25 yards out are significantly greater than 30-35 yards out. The reason they are having to drop deeper looking for the ball is that they are not getting the passes threaded through to them like they were last season. Fact. Now i am not bashing Lucas here, but he is a man now, not a boy. Players either thrive under pressure or they wilt, unfortunately this can't be instilled into a player, you've either got it (Gerrard) or you haven't (Babel).

Defensively this season he has been very good and his attitude cannot be faulted, but he has to up his offensive game. Either that or drop Gerrard back into the middle, after all he is the best central midfielder in the world. At least until Aquilani is fit. I just feel Lucas has been thrown in at the deep end, and he's struggling to tread water.

Back on topic. Let's look at the situation here shall we? The situation of Lucas Leiva. Now I don't really give a f**k that he won the  Bola de Ouro, that means nothing to me. That was in the past, the same past that people keep bringing up whenever I mention that person ( you know, the one that begins with an A and ends with an O). What is of importance is what Lucas can bring to the team now. He is under massive pressure at the moment, the pressure of replacing A#*+@o.

Now whether people like it or not these are the facts, Gerrard and Torres are having to drop deeper and deeper to get into the game and are not linking as high up the pitch as they were last season. The chances of Torres/Gerrard doing major damage from 20-25 yards out are significantly greater than 30-35 yards out. The reason they are having to drop deeper looking for the ball is that they are not getting the passes threaded through to them like they were last season. Fact. Now I am not bashing Lucas here, but he is a man now, not a boy. Players either thrive under pressure or they wilt, unfortunately this can't be instilled into a player, you've either got it (Gerrard) or you haven't (Babel).

Defensively this season he has been very good and his attitude cannot be faulted, but he has to up his offensive game. Either that or drop Gerrard back into the middle, after all he is the best central midfielder in the world. At least until Aquilani is fit. I just feel Lucas has been thrown in at the deep end, and he's struggling to tread water.

Top post mate and criticism of Lucas as you say does not need to be considered bashing him, like yourself I have criticised Lucas but also praised other parts of his game.  Again I am in agreement about the supply line from midfield and our forwards coming deep to receive the ball. Obviously other fans are going to have conflicting opinions on what Lucas brings to the team. My opinion is we have a replaced a world class player with an Inferior one at this time and I'm %100 behind your shout to drop Gerrard centrally until Aquilani is fit as right now we need to start getting things right on the pitch, it's a long season yes and all teams will drop points, but as in any other season it will be the team that drops the least that will will ultimately lift the trophy.

People like Reslivo, JD and Eem have provided stats for my stance of the argument, if I was to repeat them then I would be a hypocrite wouldn't I?

Oh you can prove anything with stat 75% of people know that

Lets face it.  Lucas didn't have a great game on Monday, but to think he is going to step into Alonso's roll is crazy.  he is very young and they are big shoes to fill.  Alonso was also at the top of his game last year.  plus other more senior and far more experienced team members had a bad game on Monday.  Lucas had been playing well, so to demonise him for one bad game after a good end to last season, a good pre-season and a reasonable start to the first two games is really harsh.   The team as a whole did not click.  we don't looked balanced yet and a few changes, such as Aquilani, Agger and i also think Riera back on the left will give us more balance and creativity.  remember we did not lose for over 18 months at home and Lucas played in many of those games.

I'm not a big fan of Lucas, but I think the past few games Liverpool has failed collectively as a team. I wish it was as easy as just pointing the finger at one, or even two players.

Yes but people like to use Lucas as a scapegoat and view him as an easy target because he is unproven. His mistake was no where near like Gerrard's yet I have seen no one slating Gerrard.

yes stevie had a bad game

the thing is it was a one off for stevie....for as long as ive been watching him lucas has been consistently bad

Back on topic. Let's look at the situation here shall we? The situation of Lucas Leiva. Now i don't really give a F**k that he won the  Bola de Ouro, that means nothing to me. That was in the past, the same past that people keep bringing up whenever i mention that person ( you know, the one that begins with an A and ends with an O). What is of importance is what Lucas can bring to the team now. He is under massive pressure at the moment, the pressure of replacing A#*+@o.

Now whether people like it or not these are the facts, Gerrard and Torres are having to drop deeper and deeper to get into the game and are not linking as high up the pitch as they were last season. The chances of Torres/Gerrard doing major damage from 20-25 yards out are significantly greater than 30-35 yards out. The reason they are having to drop deeper looking for the ball is that they are not getting the passes threaded through to them like they were last season. Fact. Now i am not bashing Lucas here, but he is a man now, not a boy. Players either thrive under pressure or they wilt, unfortunately this can't be instilled into a player, you've either got it (Gerrard) or you haven't (Babel).

Defensively this season he has been very good and his attitude cannot be faulted, but he has to up his offensive game. Either that or drop Gerrard back into the middle, after all he is the best central midfielder in the world. At least until Aquilani is fit. I just feel Lucas has been thrown in at the deep end, and he's struggling to tread water.

Torres hasn't dropped back at all though, he's sitting about 1m in front of the defensive line which means he receives the ball with his back to the goal and that is why defenders have been able to close him down so easily.

The reason we are seeing less of Torres is the ball is to slow coming forward from midfield when it does the opposition has regrouped thus he has less space to run into. Lucas needs to pass the ball forward quicker if we are to see the best of Torres and Gerrard.

IMO, i think its partly Kuyt and whoever plays on the left. They just don't seem to be bursting forward as much. I made note of it in 2 match threads that they're sitting on the halfway line even as the ball is moving towards the box. Just glad we signed Johnson and Emiliano likes to get forward.

Ya good to see our full backs getting forward because our midfield seems to be the most unadventerous in the premiership so far.

Seeing as we've stopped talking about Lucas - Topic Locked.

Posts in the 'other thread' deemed to be bashing will be moved in to here.