Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez given the money he has spent ?

So let me get this right. Rafa gets money to spend and brings in Lucas, Nemeth, Torres, Benni, Babel, Insua, Skrtel, Mascerano. Hand him another 50 million so cause apart from Voronin and the c*nt who laughed last year at the memorial there are some quality signings there

Is correct racer mate - these are talking out of their respective arses.

How much money does it take Rafa benitez to win the league is what i want to know.

Personally, abit old fashioned as usual, but i never want to 'buy' the league. I accept that in modern day football thats extremely difficult but to be honest, i don't think Rafa has to go out and buy a 20m player for each position.

People go on and on about how they want a massive take over so then we can raid the transfer market and bring in the best players in the world but i say F**k that, i don't want to become a chelsea or a city and i would much prefer it if rafa had a net spend of around 15m a season (which is far less than what others around us spend) and did things properly.

Money in football is over rated in my opinion, its certainly helpfull, but it doesn't gurantee you success and instead of moaning about having no funds like we do every single day on this forum, i think we should just accept it and look for other options, build on what we have and try and improve our team spirit more than anything. Maxi is proof that you don't always need money. We've got a lad there who would walk into any squad in the top 4 of the league. He will definately be a good addition for us.

We've brought in Jovanovic, i think he will be an addition. Joe cole and Dida are out of contract, doubt we would bring them in but again just imagine if we did, both would be good additions. Also, chamakh, he looks set for arsenal but we could have potentially brought him in too. 4 players there we might have brought in, would have cost us nothing, but all would add something to our squad.

A manager who only wins things with money shouldn't be rated as a world class manager IMO, its why i personally don't rate mourinho because without spending big, he would be F***ing nowhere.

What manager(s) do you rate?

As much as i hate to say it, "The Chosen One".

Took everton from a side on the brink of relegation to a side that qualified for champions league football.

We talk about our injury problems this season but what about theirs? If they had a fully fit squad all season, particularly at the beginning where they lost their way, they would be in the top 4 now.

Now, if moyes got EFC into the CL again, and they qualified for the group stages, and lets say they had a good run and reached the quaters or the semi's, brought in abit of money, moyes could make two or three 10m signings the next season, then they might finish 3rd instead of 4th and so on, it goes like that.

You need money but i don't think you need bucket loads. 15-20m net spend a season is fine and i believe its enough to mount a challenge. Team spirit is far more important and its what everton have and its why their a good team. Jags, cahill and lescott were bought for buttons from the championship and now their all worth over 20m. I don't wana talk about their F***ing team on a LFC forum by the way, but their the best example of it.

How much money does it take Rafa benitez to win the league is what i want to know.

Personally, abit old fashioned as usual, but i never want to 'buy' the league. I accept that in modern day football thats extremely difficult but to be honest, i don't think Rafa has to go out and buy a 20m player for each position.

People go on and on about how they want a massive take over so then we can raid the transfer market and bring in the best players in the world but i say F**k that, i don't want to become a chelsea or a city and i would much prefer it if rafa had a net spend of around 15m a season (which is far less than what others around us spend) and did things properly.

Money in football is over rated in my opinion, its certainly helpfull, but it doesn't gurantee you success and instead of moaning about having no funds like we do every single day on this forum, i think we should just accept it and look for other options, build on what we have and try and improve our team spirit more than anything. Maxi is proof that you don't always need money. We've got a lad there who would walk into any squad in the top 4 of the league. He will definately be a good addition for us.

We've brought in Jovanovic, i think he will be an addition. Joe cole and Dida are out of contract, doubt we would bring them in but again just imagine if we did, both would be good additions. Also, chamakh, he looks set for arsenal but we could have potentially brought him in too. 4 players there we might have brought in, would have cost us nothing, but all would add something to our squad.

A manager who only wins things with money shouldn't be rated as a world class manager IMO, its why i personally don't rate mourinho because without spending big, he would be F***ing nowhere.

Completely wrong view of the situation IMO.

15m would be pittance and the reason for it is that since the Yanks took over, one good transfer window is not enough to sustain a challenge. We've been far behind our competitors for a long time now and that's accumulated so much so that we find ourselves in this position where we are far behind where we should be.

F**k Spurs, City and Villa, and even Arsenal. We should be challenging Chelsea and the Mancs and this is another crossroads for the club coming up in the summer. Chelsea and ManU will be building for the future and rebuilding their squads. This is our chance to cut the gap while they are trying to build so they can stay at the top. Will 15m do that? F**k no it won't.

We don't need 20m players everywhere but we need more top quality talent around our spine. That covered by 15m?

We don't have a squad that can touch Chelsea's. We need to get one soon or we'll slip further. What we spend in this coming window has to make up for the 5 of the last 6 we've had. That's why we need alot to spend.

15m from there on will be sufficient to do a job, but not now. We need more right now.

Completely wrong view of the situation IMO.

15m would be pittance and the reason for it is that since the Yanks took over, one good transfer window is not enough to sustain a challenge. We've been far behind our competitors for a long time now and that's accumulated so much so that we find ourselves in this position where we are far behind where we should be.

F**k Spurs, City and Villa, and even Arsenal. We should be challenging Chelsea and the Mancs and this is another crossroads for the club coming up in the summer. Chelsea and ManU will be building for the future and rebuilding their squads. This is our chance to cut the gap while they are trying to build so they can stay at the top. Will 15m do that? F**k no it won't.

We don't need 20m players everywhere but we need more top quality talent around our spine. That covered by 15m?

We don't have a squad that can touch Chelsea's. We need to get one soon or we'll slip further. What we spend in this coming window has to make up for the 5 of the last 6 we've had. That's why we need alot to spend.

15m from there on will be sufficient to do a job, but not now. We need more right now.

Absolutely Crouchy.  £15m per window missed = £90m to bring us up to where we should have been.  Had that small investment been consistant we wouldn't be in this situation. 

We now have some quality young players coming through which will strengthen the squad overall but we won't see those benefits for possibly another couple of years.  What we need to do though is clear out those who aren't good enough now to make way for those youngsters or they will never get the opportunity to come into the squad.

There have been players though crouch who have been bought for next to nothing and have become world class and have put and extra 20m on their value.

Wenger brought in fabregas on a free for fucks sake. kolo toure cost 150K, Anelka cost 500K. If wenger is capable of spotting talents like that then surely rafa is too.

Even moyes can do it. arteta 2m. hes now worth around 20m. cahill bought for what 2m? again, hes worth around 20m. Lescott, jageilka are two others who have atleast trippled their values, both priced over 20m.

Money is definately usefull but its not essential and I think its made more of an issue that what it actually is. If a manager needs 500m to spend to win the league then IMO he isn't a very good manager.

I can't deny that Moyes is a good manager and does pretty well in the transfer market but, as even Everton fan friend on mine admits, Moyes and Everton will probably never win the league again without more money. There are different groups of teams in the EPL, the 'Top 4', the 4th place contenders, the UEFA / EUROPA contenders, the mid-table spoilers, the battlers and the 'give up you're going down' group. Good managers like Moyes, ONeill, Hodgson etc are more than capable of taking teams from that very bottom group, right up to the 4th place contenders group and, in Moyes' case, they can even achieve fourth.
However, to do that season after season and make that final push to contend for the title is just too far for any team that lacks financial clout. It's sad really but that's the modern EPL.

Rafa's net spend is something like 76 million.

Torres 20 million
Aquilani 20 million
Masch 18 million
Johnson 18 million

76 million on 4 players

I'd say he's done quite well in the market, considering all the other players he's bought amounting to 0.

Rafa done well in the transfer market id say no because the good players he bought he went and sold again(crouch, Bellamy, Arbeloa , Alonso,)

Degen,Dossena, Pennant,leto,gonzales,morientes,sissokho,keane,Babel,Crouch, Bellamy,voronin,josemi,insua,kromkamp,zenden,nunez were all sh*t for us. I would rather have 4 top class 20 million players than most of these.

Aquilani seems injury prone , never plays and dont think he warrants the 20 million we paid.
Glen Johnson - I would never pay 18 million for a right back who isnt that good at defending when we already had Arbeloa imo much better than Johnson.

Rafa done well in the transfer market id say no because the good players he bought he went and sold again(crouch, Bellamy, Arbeloa , Alonso,)

Degen,Dossena, Pennant,leto,gonzales,morientes,sissokho,keane,Babel,Crouch, Bellamy,voronin,josemi,insua,kromkamp,zenden,nunez were all sh*t for us. I would rather have 4 top class 20 million players than most of these.

Aquilani seems injury prone , never plays and dont think he warrants the 20 million we paid.
Glen Johnson - I would never pay 18 million for a right back who isnt that good at defending when we already had Arbeloa imo much better than Johnson.

In the first senstence you say bellamy, crouch were good, then in the next say they were sh*t.

Are you on crack?

In the first senstence you say bellamy, crouch were good, then in the next say they were sh*t.

Are you on crack?

No he's just talking out of it 

No he's just talking out of it 

I meant in general they are good players who were not utilised properly while they were with us.

I meant in general they are good players who were not utilised properly while they were with us.

Tell us how they were not utilised properly.

To my recollection they all played mostly in their favoured positions.

What I do know is that given zero money invested in the last 2 years we have regressed.

While many of those clubs who have invested have progressed.

What I do know is that given zero money invested in the last 2 years we have regressed.

While many of those clubs who have invested have progressed.

Is right, but to some investment is not the issue it's Rafa's tactics, man management etc etc.

Last season we finished 2nd then we sold Alonso and Arbeloa and brought in Aquilani and Johnson, like for like
Utd sold Ronaldo and brought in Valencia who are on different levels in terms of class
Chelsea hardly made any changes they bought Zhirkov and Sturridge imo didnt make much of a difference

Where did we go wrong then that we have ended up 7th?

Last season we finished 2nd then we sold Alonso and Arbeloa and brought in Aquilani and Johnson, like for like
Utd sold Ronaldo and brought in Valencia who are on different levels in terms of class
Chelsea hardly made any changes they bought Zhirkov and Sturridge imo didnt make much of a difference

Where did we go wrong then that we have ended up 7th?

Rafa made mistakes there.

Aquilani constantly injured and Johnson being inept at doing his job.

But if Aquilani is fit next season then i think we'll see a resurgence and if Johnson learns what de-fend-ing (have to break that down for him to understand if he is reading this) is then we'll be sweet.

The positive is that next season can't possibly be so bad in terms of things going against us (regardless of what other teams do) and i think we will rise again. 

Last season we finished 2nd then we sold Alonso and Arbeloa and brought in Aquilani and Johnson, like for like
Utd sold Ronaldo and brought in Valencia who are on different levels in terms of class
Chelsea hardly made any changes they bought Zhirkov and Sturridge imo didnt make much of a difference

Where did we go wrong then that we have ended up 7th?

Injuries, lack of depth, poor form associated to lack of depth and injuries.

Injuries, lack of depth, poor form associated to lack of depth and injuries.

Do you mean Chelsea is injury free all the way?
What about they lose Kalou, Essien & Drogba served their countries for African Cup?

Do you mean Chelsea is injury free all the way?
What about they lose Kalou, Essien & Drogba served their countries for African Cup?

That's where their squad size and strength kicks in.

Been done to death but money helps with that problem.

Both of our clubs have replacements, but they have the wage bill and transfer kitty to help their problem with quality players coming in for an injured quality player.

We have a free signing or bargain basement player coming in for most of our injured first XI.

I don't like having to repeat that fact or read others continually using it as an excuse either but that's what it comes down to.

We're talking about we're not much different from last season.
We finished above Chelsea, this season we sold Alonso & Arbeloa and got Johnson.
When asked could there any impact of let Alonso go, Rafa replied there're matches we won without Alonso. eg winning 4-1 over Utd at Old Trafford.
If we still talking about money, let me remind you again, last season we finished above Chelsea.