Change the system?

Although I thought that we were far from good enough last night there was 1 or 2 things that jumped out at me. First off Aquilaini as well as being creative gets forward as well. The other was Stevie being the only player who can consistently whip in good crosses.

Got me thinking is it time for Rafa to change from the obviously not working (3 wins in 14 games) 4 2 3 1 and go back to 4 4 2 or 4 4 1 1. With a fully fit squad to pick from I think we could be very attack minded but still have the players capable of defending also

Reina

Johnson Carra Agger Aurelio

Gerrard Aquilaini Masch Yossi

       Pacheco Torres

Would love to see that team let loose. A fit Martin Kelly would come close to a place also as our central defenders havent set the world alite this season either.

Again last night when we did manage to get a ball in the box there was maybe 1 player at most in there. In the 11 I have you could potentiually have 5 players who would be inthe box or looking to get in there.

Anybody agree with me or do we stick with what we have until it works again? 

It's a great side on paper, no doubt.

But i'm not completely for it. When we have a full squad, the Rafa system assists our counter attack style with the creative central midfielder, and the wingers bursting forward.

But, that looks very strong and i would like to see it against lesser sides.

Although I thought that we were far from good enough last night there was 1 or 2 things that jumped out at me. First off Aquilaini as well as being creative gets forward as well. The other was Stevie being the only player who can consistently whip in good crosses.

Got me thinking is it time for Rafa to change from the obviously not working (3 wins in 14 games) 4 2 3 1 and go back to 4 4 2 or 4 4 1 1. With a fully fit squad to pick from I think we could be very attack minded but still have the players capable of defending also

Reina

Johnson Carra Agger Aurelio

Gerrard Aquilaini Masch Yossi

       Pacheco Torres

Would love to see that team let loose. A fit Martin Kelly would come close to a place also as our central defenders havent set the world alite this season either.

Again last night when we did manage to get a ball in the box there was maybe 1 player at most in there. In the 11 I have you could potentiually have 5 players who would be inthe box or looking to get in there.

Anybody agree with me or do we stick with what we have until it works again? 

It would certainly help if we had someone up front with Torres,I think it could work Brian.

I wouldn't mind seeing this team. Gerrard doesn't like playing on the right, but he's the best option for the right that we have.

That team would tear most teams in the league apart.

I can see your point mate although my own feelings are that our current system has worked so well with Gerrard playing in behind Torres and the two sitting midfielders playing (although one needs to be more creative) that i wouldnt change.

Gerrard and Torres again arent getting a lot of games together this season due to injuries but theres no doubt for me when there fit our system works fine, after all it nearly won us the league last season.

However i really believe our system only works with Gerrard and Torres filling those roles as when Ngog plays or someone else is in the attacking midfielder role it just doesnt work, both Gerrard and Nando are key to making that system work.

We need a plan B, after all other teams adapt to differant formations when players are injured.

I would never put Gerrard out on the right as he doesnt want to play there and he can dictate the entire match in the middle.

As for Pacheco, one day yes, but not after 10 minutes agains Fiorentina. One for the future though he should be getting on more frequently.

Need proper wingers, after nearly 6 years an several wide men bought we are still playing centre forwards or full backs on the wing.... get it sorted.

That looks like a peach of a team.  Won't happen, as it's too positive for Rafa.  Would love to see it, though.

Although I thought that we were far from good enough last night there was 1 or 2 things that jumped out at me. First off Aquilaini as well as being creative gets forward as well. The other was Stevie being the only player who can consistently whip in good crosses.

Got me thinking is it time for Rafa to change from the obviously not working (3 wins in 14 games) 4 2 3 1 and go back to 4 4 2 or 4 4 1 1. With a fully fit squad to pick from I think we could be very attack minded but still have the players capable of defending also

Reina

Johnson Carra Agger Aurelio

Gerrard Aquilaini Masch Yossi

       Pacheco Torres

Would love to see that team let loose. A fit Martin Kelly would come close to a place also as our central defenders havent set the world alite this season either.

Again last night when we did manage to get a ball in the box there was maybe 1 player at most in there. In the 11 I have you could potentiually have 5 players who would be inthe box or looking to get in there.

Anybody agree with me or do we stick with what we have until it works again? 

Not sold on the merits of 4-4-2 with Gerrard back in the middle.

My preference would be to keep the protection for the shaky defence in Lucas and Mascherano, to play Aquilani more advanced and throw Gerrard on the right wing in place of Kuyt.

But it won't happen.

I think that would be the best option at the moment to keep the two defensive mids with Aquilani in front of them and Stevie on the right, Yossi on the left Torres upfornt.

But as JD said it wont happen.

How about a diamond formation with torres at the top, gerrard and yossi at the sides with aqua the furthest back. Still have monster and lucas patrolling the middle??

Otherwise would like to see Babel get a run in Kuyts position with Yossi playing off Torres. Gerrard in the middle for me his striking rate is too poor this season to warrant him as a stirker plus his crossing is th best in the side.

I have no problems with Kuyt,Babel,Dossena getting the odd start in the diamond to shake it up as on their day can all be effective but each one lacks consistency.

why dont we play Kuyt in the position we bought him to play in ....Now theres an idea!

why dont we play Kuyt in the position we bought him to play in ....Now theres an idea!

we have in the last 2 games and he was poo

It's a great side on paper, no doubt.

But I'm not completely for it. When we have a full squad, the Rafa system assists our counter attack style with the creative central midfielder, and the wingers bursting forward. But, that looks very strong and I would like to see it against lesser sides.

What wingers bursting forward? Where are they? I haven't seen them. Let's start playing them.

we have in the last 2 games and he was poo

But Torres wasnt fit then!

why dont we play Kuyt in the position we bought him to play in ....Now theres an idea!

Here's another idea. Let's drop Kuyt, rid him of his 'complacency' and give him the kick up the arse he so obviously requires. How bad does he have to be before Rafa drops him?

But Torres wasnt fit then!

We bought Kuyt as a forward thats where he played last 2 games, poorly. Doesnt matter if Torres was there or not

We bought Kuyt as a forward thats where he played last 2 games, poorly. Doesnt matter if Torres was there or not

Just thinking of some where for him to play, I want to see johnson right wing but then who goes right back???

keirrison to liverpool

babel to benfica

after yesterdays performance

                    Reina

Johnson    Carra     Agger   Aurelio

Benny      Aqua     Masch     Doss

                    Gerrard

                    Torres

I would have pachecho on the bench. He should really be playing some first team football, his talent is definatly there. Gerrard and Aquilani would be interchanging since Gerrard does seem to get man marked. I dont know why people are still hooked on the 2 man holding midfield. Masch on his own is strong enough. 

Hows about we just stick to the same formation and Rafa plays his strongest Starting XI (A luxury he has not had all season long) for the next few games and see what happens ?, Then if something needs changing, address it.

Watched last nights game and the impression i got was that we have a team of unhappy players, something or some one is upsetting them, when Benny scored their was no reaction to the goal, it was as if they had agreed beforehand not to celebrate to make a point, just might be me but did any one else read it that way? a good team (last years 2nd place finish) does not become bad overnight, our performance improved in small bursts, i really can't figure them out, Gerrard looks like he wants to be somewhere else, haven't seen him smile all this season, it was telling when Benny scored he was so serious, he even waved his finger to say no celebration, who do you think is to blame for our slump in form??

It's me again, forgot to add that when ever we change from 4.4.2 to some silly 1.1. the players cant seem to figure out how to play, revert to two strikers up front, because if either or both, Gerrard or Torres are man marked out of the game then your system has gone out of the window, revert to 4.4.2 i say and get back to basics.

I think before we go crazy about suggesting actual formation changes we should remember that the formation worked exceptionally well last season.

I think it is very rash to suggest a formation change when it is clear that it is players underperforming that is primarily at fault.  If all our players were playing to the level we know they can and then we were suffering that would be a good time to consider formation changes.

The forward line and wingers are not doing their job but I haven't seen very many teams bossing games against us and controlling the midfield.  A bit more guile from the four attacking players and a bit more steel in the defence and I think our current system should be more than adequate.

I'm of the thinking with all the chopping and changing we've had this season due to injuries, do we want to start tinkering around even more ?

Give our full Strength starting XI some game time as we have not seen what they are capable of producing yet before we start needlessly F***ing about.

keirrison to liverpool

babel to benfica

FFS we are talking about the system, not selling someone off!

Hows about we just stick to the same formation and Rafa plays his strongest Starting XI (A luxury he has not had all season long) for the next few games and see what happens ?, Then if something needs changing, address it.

I know we havent had Torres and Stevie together alot this season but we shouldnt be basing our hopes on 2 players playing. It is also possible that other teams now know how to set up against us in that system and we have no plan b

I know we havent had Torres and Stevie together alot this season but we shouldnt be basing our hopes on 2 players playing. It is also possible that other teams now know how to set up against us in that system and we have no plan b

But were not going to find out if the players in Rafa's strongest Starting XI can play his favoured formation, maybe it wont work with Aquilani slotting in there who knows ?, I think we have to see what plan A offers before we start worrying about plan B.

I think before we go crazy about suggesting actual formation changes we should remember that the formation worked exceptionally well last season.

I think it is very rash to suggest a formation change when it is clear that it is players underperforming that is primarily at fault.  If all our players were playing to the level we know they can and then we were suffering that would be a good time to consider formation changes.

The forward line and wingers are not doing their job but I haven't seen very many teams bossing games against us and controlling the midfield.  A bit more guile from the four attacking players and a bit more steel in the defence and I think our current system should be more than adequate.

On your 1st point I agree it worked great. But last season is last season 3 wins in 14 suggests it isnt working now. With regards to players underperforming theres 2 options open to Rafa, as this topic suggests change formation or change players. If for example Kuyt hasnt been playing well over a period of games try someone else.

But were not going to find out if the players in Rafa's strongest Starting XI can play his favoured formation, maybe it wont work with Aquilani slotting in there who knows ?, I think we have to see what plan A offers before we start worrying about plan B.

What originally made me write this post wasnt to have a pop at our current formation more to try and gather waht people think of the system I suggested. I based it on having a defensive midfielder with a midfielder who can push on. Stevie is the best crosser we have which is why I moved him to right midfield. 2 full backs who can push on and a young forward who is perfect for the role behind Torres. I dont expect to see it used its only me putting an idea out there for a response. If im honest I dont think we create enough inthe current system and thats because its over dependant on Stevie and Nando

I think we have to see what plan A offers before we start worrying about plan B.

There'll always be point during the season and maybe even during any given game that Rafa's preferred 'Plan A' isn't working Red. We should always, therefore, be prepared and ready with 'Plan B' - ergo; no harm done 'worrying' about it (or preparing for it if you like). 

If im honest I dont think we create enough inthe current system and thats because its over dependant on Stevie and Nando

I agree we don't create enough in the current System mate, however I believe that will remain the same as long as both Masch and Lucas are employed as a central midfield pairing.

Neither or player posses the vision, intelligence, ability and range of passing to orchestrate and control the tempo from the middle of the park and that for me comes down to how little we create.

So the only major change I would make at the moment is to play Aquilani alongside Masch in our Strongest starting XI as from what I seen I seen last night Aquilani looks to be a very creative forward positive playing footballer and I'm of the opinion if he integrates into the system quick and well, the problems we have seen may just start to disappear.

There'll always be point during the season and maybe even during any given game that Rafa's preferred 'Plan A' isn't working Red. We should always, therefore, be prepared and ready with 'Plan B' - ergo; no harm done 'worrying' about it (or preparing for it if you like).  

I don't disagree with that at all mate, I'm just thinking about plan A at the moment, not once has Rafa been able to field what he will consider his full strength starting XI this season, Would now that they are all just about fit not be a good time to see exactly what plan A has to offer whilst he has the players at his disposal, then worry about plan B in lesser games or if it is not working ?

I think our form has suffered enough through constant chopping and changing due to injuries etc, do we need to really set about self harming by doing more off our own backs ?

I think the team last night ,with a few tweaks ,would sort our season out.Aquilani did show that he can create alongside Mascherano and help supply good ball to Gerrard and Torres ,I would also like to see Pacheco get more first team games to support Torres ,Johnson at full back ,as usual, Carra supporting Agger,my one doubt is Insua ,although he has had some good games there is something lacking ...and of course Pepe in goal !

5-4-1 Defensive
3-4-1 Offensive

Reina

Johnson Carragher Skrtel Agger Aurelio
                    Masch

Gerrard          Aquilani               Bennayoun

                    Torres

What do you think of this? We can bring Kuyt, Ngog, Lucas, Kelly, Pacheco, El Zar, Babbel, Dossena, Insua In to refresh the team throughout the season. We could be strong defensively and menacing in attack! We'll have the best defense midfield and striker in the world playing!

3-4-1 Offensive....


.....What do you think of this?

I think nine players, (no matter how good they are), will struggle to win games.