Play Babel Upfront?

I am confused, I am almost sure that the fact that he seeks to take on players and in doing so is seen as a selfish and blind player is a sign of him trying to prove himself to the manager (him trying to make the most of the little chances he has got). I remember a certain game against Arsenal, and he ran the whole pitch and did some wonderful things. Don't recall him playing the following match, to better that he had a marvelous run out against Lyon and we all know what happened? No? Well I don't know because I believed that was a sign of intent from the lad.   

The confidence that Ryan has shown, is the confidence that he has been given. His touch is very good, but when you are low in confidence; even the best have poor touches. I can remember Torres being unfit and low in confidence with his string and having poor touches, it happens to everyone.

Want lack of desire from Babel? Expect him to play like Lucas, no sense of urgency of forward thinking. Not being able to stand up and try to be offensive. That is not showing heart, Lucas has played some very safe passes that are highly ineffective (not bashing the lad) but if we want Babel to do that, it would be a breeze for him. His (Ryan Babel) talent suggests greater than that, so we expect more. To whom great is given much is expected. To whom little has been given, we must expect glimpses or very little. Babel has given us the spectacular and is benched immediately thereafter. Pacheco got his little and showed a glimpse hence we expect more, much more.

More so I remember when everyone in the public used to claim that Benitez was an idiot for not playing Babel on a more consistent basis. Now we are well and truly prepared in seeing the lad go when he has certainly made an impact in our squad. Upfront? He has been lively in his cameo appearances, anyone who wish to argue against that go watch the tapes. No one will forget what he did against the Mancs...I've said that Babel would be given his fair chance, but after proving so much and his confidence being hit so badly he must be seeking the door, which is sad. Lucas has his limitations and knows them, he can afford to say good things as he knows he aint cutting it. Ryan has said in the past he's willing to work, Benitez has said that he's more than an impact player. When will we see the fruits bearing? Perhaps when another team has seen him as a valuable player to their squad. Let's not rue it when it comes.

Attitude is not about running a 100miles per hour like a headless chicken when you yourself have lost the ball. The likes of Ronaldinho would be seen as players with no or very little attitude. The players don't become good by losing the ball and being blamed for not tracking back. The players became great because they understand their roles, and even so I've watched match wherein I've seen Babel tracking back. Even if eventually he made a poor decision in terms of his pass in getting out of trouble. Attitude wise, its not about saying nice things. It's about applying yourself, Babel has applied himself in more than one occasion. Yet he's been unfortunate, very disheartening to see. Spearing I won't say much but after some poor performances I hear very little moaning in him not playing. I wonder why? We are too short sighted as supporters! Babel needs to be given a proper chance, if he fails to take advantage of a proper run. I see no problem in him leaving, but bear this in mind; Xabi Alonso had two great seasons at this club, others affected by injuries, whilst others we just not good enough. Yet his last one was incredible...

Attitude is not about running a 100miles per hour like a headless chicken

Funnily enough I see Ryan Babel do that quite often when he's in the red of a liverpool shirt down the left wing normally resulting in him cutting inside and losing possession.

Headless chicken + Running Down Blind Alleys = Ryan Babel

Imo his attitude isnt costing us points its the reward of players like Lucas,Insua and Kuyt for trying hard thats costing us at the moment. Cant see how trying talented players who can do more than try hard will cost us points when playing average grafters is costing us points every game this season so far. What have we got to lose weve won 3 in 14 already this season its not working lets try something else please.

We all love hard work but its just not enough in the modern game all the relegation fighting teams have incredible work ethic but dont win jack sh*t. It seems to me fans on this site have stated openly they would rather get worse results with good role models than play players with attitude who might be able to change our mediocracy.

Great post

Funnily enough I see Ryan Babel do that quite often when he's in the red of a liverpool shirt down the left wing normally resulting in him cutting inside and losing possession.

Headless chicken + Running Down Blind Alleys = Ryan Babel

Was gonna say something along the same lines!

Look, that was a good post as far as you wrote well, and at least tried to have a balanced and well thought out argument. But, still doesn't cut it. You are still using the same old 'you saw what he did against the mancs' crap. Same with 'that brilliance at Lyon'. Well, in between all that has been a myriad of mediocre performances, horrible touches and play, and general crapness that Ryan Babel has become known for. You chose to bring up the Lyon goal, but of course failed to point out the horrible effort he had just minutes later, one that i think almost went in the net at Anfield it travelled that far away from its intended target!! Fact is he is very very sporadic in play, and his attitude is no better. You are all saying "oh he has confidence issues" well for me that does not cut it either! If you are a footballer you gotta expect to deal with situations not to your liking. If little things start going against you, and then you immediately let your head down and sulk, then that IMO is a sign you should not play football professionally, at least not for a big club like Liverpool. You need to be able to take the good with the bad on the chin and just keep moving forward. I think if you expect him just to get a little special treatment, just cos more wittle Wyan wants his mummy more than other players, then you do not know some vital things about football. It's a team game, everyone is on the same page. Lucas for a long while didn't get many chances either, until he showed Benitez enough in training and then the few chances he did get, to start more on a more frequent basis. If Babel does this, so be it. But until then, he should buck up and shut up, and so should all who call for him to get special treatment just because he was a "hot prospect" 3 years ago.

i'd take him over kuyt any day..

tracking back isn't a winger/forward's main priority. then why we have defenders and two ultimate defensive players in the midfield??

I'd take him over kuyt any day..

tracking back isn't a winger/forward's main priority. then why we have defenders and two ultimate defensive players in the midfield??

Kuyt at the best we have seen him play, or Babel at the best we have seen him play? Kuyt everytime for me.

We should because on his day he can do things that 90% of our squad cant do in their dreams.

Yeah, like running ahead of the ball or getting the ball stuck between his feet, which I've seen him do several times during games that he has played in.

Let's set aside the lad's attitude. What we're left with is a very ordinary footballer - at the end of the day that's all that matters. He ain't good enough.

It has been tried before, to shocking effect. I can't remember which game, but he was shocking. And, as per usual, he was not very lively as far as attitude goes either. N'Gog may not be quite as skilled as Babel, but he does have some quality and the hard work he puts in well makes up for it. I honestly do not want to see Babel in a Liverpool shirt until he fixes up the attitude

N'gog didn't fill me with confidence either, but he's grown in just a handful of games. Ryan may just enjoy his football again with regular football and produce some goods. He's not going to do it from the bench, though is he?

Bottom line is though, it should be clicking in his head by now that if he worked harder he would be playing endless amounts of football. It's not all glamour in football, and doesn't have to be.

Imo his attitude isnt costing us points its the reward of players like Lucas,Insua and Kuyt for trying hard thats costing us at the moment. Cant see how trying talented players who can do more than try hard will cost us points when playing average grafters is costing us points every game this season so far. What have we got to lose weve won 3 in 14 already this season its not working lets try something else please.

We all love hard work but its just not enough in the modern game all the relegation fighting teams have incredible work ethic but dont win jack sh*t. It seems to me fans on this site have stated openly they would rather get worse results with good role models than play players with attitude who might be able to change our mediocracy.

Good post - I agree with you mate.

It seems to me fans on this site have stated openly they would rather get worse results with good role models than play players with attitude who might be able to change our mediocracy.

Now hold on a second.

Since the day most of us began to barrack for this club, we have learnt of the Liverpool way. That is to be all for the club and no man is bigger than the shirt. Nothing has changed, IMO.

If your a tosser who wants to be playing for the sake of being at a successful club, then we have no room for you. And since the second season he has been here, Ryan Babel has shown nothing but disrespect to the club and manager. His constant whining to the press and then blaming it on misinterpretations is not what we want in a player who is wearing a Liverpool shirt.

If you work hard, and you play for the club and give everything you have for the club then the fans will adore you and so will the manager. If you want to be a c*** and bi*ch and moan about everything and not realise the opportunity he has in his hands to play for this club, then he can F**k off.

But what i find most insulting is that you think we are putting players before results. Different opinions aside, we all want what is best for the club and that means to be winning on the pitch - while adhering to the Liverpool way and culture. Everyone on here (well, 99%) love the club above anything else and would give an arm and three legs if possible to see us winning.

To say we are putting Liverpool's success on the backburners because of players being hardworkers is absolute garbage.

And just a side note, we have all stated that Insua and Kuyt need to be dropped but injuries cannot permit this with Aurelio, our only other used left back, being injured and the likes of Yossi, Babel, Riera and Gerrard who can play there even, being injured.

The problem with Ryan Babels attitude to me is he is a spoilt brat who from being a small child has been told what an amazing footballer he is and he is bound to be a superstar 'cos he's so good.

He's typical of so many youngsters who assume that once he is signed by a big club he's made it and everyone is going to love him regardless of whether he lives up to his own hype or not.

Maybe he is/has been played out of his natural position and thinks he's not getting a fair crack because of that but think about it this way, how many positions has Stevie G played when required, I seem to remember he ended up playing right back in the latter stages of the 2005 Champions League final, I don't remember him throwing a hissy fit.  He just got on with it cos the team needed him to do it.

Yossi is another prime example of having the right attitude.  He was struggling to get a regular place in the team but kept his head down and worked hard and more importantly took his chances when they came.  He is now being rewarded for that hard work by being loved by the fans and getting regular starts.

A perfect example of Babel's bad attitude was his reaction when he scored "that goal" against Lyon.  He brushed off an imaginary chip off his shoulder probably thinking to himself "that's shown them, now I'm bound to get a regular start".  Well sorry Ryan, it takes more than one well struck goal to prove anything. 

Just accept it mate you just can't hack being a small fish in a very big pond!

Firstly I should apologise if anyone thought I was trying to question fans heart and dedication or support for the club but..

If your a tosser who wants to be playing for the sake of being at a successful club, then we have no room for you. .

If you work hard, and you play for the club and give everything you have for the club then the fans will adore you and so will the manager. If you want to be a c*** and bi*ch and moan about everything and not realise the opportunity he has in his hands to play for this club, then he can f**k off.
 

I just dont care if hes a tosser or not Still u seem to be saying we want people to try hard and give 100% which is fair. BUT at some stage trying hard and giving ur all will only get u so far.There are plenty of world class players who bi*ch moan,jump clubs for an extra 5k a week and play at big clubs just to be noticed. Thats the way of the modern game look at the other 3 of the top 4 teams theyre full of posers,money grabbers and bad attitudes.

Now if a player is producing consistently on the pitch all is somehow forgiven by most clubs eg Drogba, Cr9. Even Torres is whining after every tackle,cursing at the ref,going down easy more so than ever but we overlook it cos of his quality. If people believe Babel is muck cos he hasnt got the quality thats fine with me but im from the 'hes been mismanaged' camp. I dont believe his personality/attitude is of massive importance as long as hes playing well and the teams winning.

I think we have enough guys who bleed for the shirt. If they all had immense talent that  wud be even better but a lot of them are average talent wise. I believe Babel is one of the few we have who is more talent than heart and i think the team is crying out for players like that rather than just workers. If Babel was doing what CR9 does on the pitch wud we even care about all the whining and crap off it probably not. We just dont have the funds to get players who do both. So lets make the best advantages over the types we have and use them accordingly. I didnt shout too much about Babel last year cos Kuyts contirbution earned him his spot.. this year cant say that honestly.

Lucas works his balls off but the fans dont adore him.. its kind of a Berba/Tevez argument imo I just dont see whats wrong with having both types in the team when too much of either one is ineffective.

Ryan Babel has played up front a few times and for me he looks a far more dangerous player on the left side, I know it sounds daft but he's played left, right and centre, and coming in from the left gives him the perfect angle for his right foot. If he would use it better.

What worries me is that he will go to another pr em team and play brilliantly, and then Rafa would be blamed for not bringing out his best, but that's to simple because if something like that happened I would want to know why he didn't do it here.

I see some of the streams here are against Ryan staying and understandable as that is, I would like to see him stay and work on his game, he could be one helleva player.

The thing I find frustrating about Ryan is he don't know when to let the ball go, that's why he keeps running into brick walls, he must play one touch football a lot more than he does.

Sometimes the early ball is the one that undoes defences, and not running around like an headless chicken, that is unless your on yer own, and if you got to many opponents running along side, you turn and pass, I guess what I'm trying to say his Ryan must use his brains a lot more than he does.

Firstly I should apologise if anyone thought I was trying to question fans heart and dedication or support for the club but..

I just dont care if hes a tosser or not Still u seem to be saying we want people to try hard and give 100% which is fair. BUT at some stage trying hard and giving ur all will only get u so far.There are plenty of world class players who bi*ch moan,jump clubs for an extra 5k a week and play at big clubs just to be noticed. Thats the way of the modern game look at the other 3 of the top 4 teams theyre full of posers,money grabbers and bad attitudes.

Now if a player is producing consistently on the pitch all is somehow forgiven by most clubs eg Drogba, Cr9. Even Torres is whining after every tackle,cursing at the ref,going down easy more so than ever but we overlook it cos of his quality. If people believe Babel is muck cos he hasnt got the quality thats fine with me but im from the 'hes been mismanaged' camp. I dont believe his personality/attitude is of massive importance as long as hes playing well and the teams winning.

I think we have enough guys who bleed for the shirt. If they all had immense talent that  wud be even better but a lot of them are average talent wise. I believe Babel is one of the few we have who is more talent than heart and i think the team is crying out for players like that rather than just workers. If Babel was doing what CR9 does on the pitch wud we even care about all the whining and crap off it probably not. We just dont have the funds to get players who do both. So lets make the best advantages over the types we have and use them accordingly. I didnt shout too much about Babel last year cos Kuyts contirbution earned him his spot.. this year cant say that honestly.

Lucas works his balls off but the fans dont adore him.. its kind of a Berba/Tevez argument imo I just dont see whats wrong with having both types in the team when too much of either one is ineffective.

I do care he's a tosser, personally. However, it's not just the personality, it's mostly the workrate and heart he's lacking when playing. He's just not giving it all, if he even knows how to, and that's besides his technical shortcomings. Almost everybody needs to work his ass off to perform well at this level, and Babel just doesn't. He plays football matches like he's training or something.

I do care he's a tosser, personally. However, it's not just the personality, it's mostly the workrate and heart he's lacking when playing. He's just not giving it all, if he even knows how to, and that's besides his technical shortcomings. Almost everybody needs to work his ass off to perform well at this level, and Babel just doesn't. He plays football matches like he's training or something.

I agree he comes off as lazy but so do other players Berba even Henry at times compared to your Rooneys and Tevezs. So we're getting the impression hes not working hard even when he may or may not be. He also has one of those faces u wanna smack,he looks like a goofy idiot. He doesnt have good relations with the fans or press. He makes rap songs in his spare time. I can understand why he rubs people up the wrong way and for many its too late for him. Me personally not too pushed about that stuff and believe his contribution has been amazing at times although pales in comparison to his level of crappiness on his bad days.

After arguing this out on a few threads with true educated fans can only see one solution of him being loaned out given a run.. then either sold or kept based on that performance. Maybe he can make the WC squad with enough loan performances then we can see him under pressure.

Surely we can all agree thats the only sensible option imo as the other great option is to sell him for a lot of money (very unlikely 5m at most) and buy a quality player like silva(even less likely 30m value,doesnt wana play in England etc). Loan him out preferably the PL to a mid table club who will play him 20 straight. Fulham wud be great for him Hodgson an excellent man manager and Uefa cup matches for him too.

Then we can argue it out in the summer all over again!!

Loan him out preferably the PL to a mid table club who will play him 20 straight. Fulham wud be great for him Hodgson an excellent man manager and Uefa cup matches for him too.

That is something I wont disagree with , I said pre-season loan him out Newcastle or a club of similar ilk, let him get him some game time time under his belt, build his confidence and re-evaluate his situation given his performances. However that has not happened and his situation is not getting any better remaining at Anfield.

Yep, one thing we agree on - i would like to see him loaned out to a club he will get guaranteed game time. Then we can really see if he can cut the mustard or will just keep on cuttin' the cheese.

The thought of playing Babel as a striker makes me feel unsure whether to laugh or cry to be honest!

He lacks so many of the requirements required to play upfront that it is beyond funny.

No ball control, awareness, poor first touch, poor link up play, poor in the air, lazy, unable to beat a man despite having blistering pace.

Taking all of the above into consideration he is possibly one of the last players in our entire squad that should be considered as a striker.

Lets face it....what does he have to offer in that role?

I have been saying now for as long as I can remember that he simply has to be sold to anyone willing to pay money for him and we need to cut our losses.

There is a stigma attached to certain players who are labelled with 'potential' or 'bags of ability' that never actually comes to fruition and it is all nothing more than hype.....Babel is a prime example of this!

Loaning him out would do us more harm than good in my opinion as he is such a poor player that his valuation could drop even further by exposure to game time.

GET RID ASAP WHILST SOME CLUB MANAGERS ARE STILL BUYING INTO THE MYTH THAT BABEL HAS SOMETHING TO OFFER!!

No ball control, awareness, poor first touch, poor link up play, poor in the air, lazy, unable to beat a man despite having blistering pace.

Good argument but the problem is those traits describe several of the attacking players some of them lynchpins of the squad Kuyt,Riera,Voronin etc

Im not even totally against selling him BUT.. cant see us getting the 11m back or even close. Even if we did at best itl go to service the debt or get a similar type player with the same development conundrum. In fact even the 11m wouldnt go as far as it did 3 years ago considering there were 3 deals this summer over 60m.

Still think a loan deal makes most sense. the other more extreme measures carry risk to the club.

Good argument but the problem is those traits describe several of the attacking players some of them lynchpins of the squad Kuyt,Riera,Voronin etc

Im not even totally against selling him BUT.. cant see us getting the 11m back or even close. Even if we did at best itl go to service the debt or get a similar type player with the same development conundrum. In fact even the 11m wouldnt go as far as it did 3 years ago considering there were 3 deals this summer over 60m.

Still think a loan deal makes most sense. the other more extreme measures carry risk to the club.

wouldn't exactly call Voronin a lynchpin !  And i think Babel is now behind Pacheco in the pecking order

wouldn't exactly call Voronin a lynchpin !  And I think Babel is now behind Pacheco in the pecking order

Well i did say some of them was just looking for another example to take up space kinda like Voronins playing career at Liverpool