Nurturing the youth

Ra Ra Bashers, GO AWAY!

Well we've got some very good youth players, but I'm just wondering will we get the best out of them. Let's compare one of our youngsters say Pacheco now at 17 years old and Fabregas when he was 17 years old. The difference will be the two managers. Fabregas was given opportunities when he was young by Wenger to play first team football, Rafa will not give Pacheco that opportunity. Wenger puts his faith in the youngsters he buys but Benitez waits and waits until they are no longer youngsters and in many cases the players don't develop properly.

Lets hope him playing Pacheco in pre-season is a sign he'll be giving the young man a chance with the senior team at least in the cup matches and occasionally place him on the bench now that we have 2 extra subs available, so if we are comfortably winning by two or three goals he can get a 15 or 20 minutes on the pitch. He is already a star for the U-18's and Reserves, the only way forward now is for him to get a few first team opportunities.

Nemeth the same. If he isn't loaned then he needs to be on the bench. That's why it's so imperative we get rid of Voronin asap! While he's at Liverpool he'll get the nod over the youngsters.

I'd like to think that Nemeth or Pacheco has overtaken Voronin in the pecking order... like to

I'd like to think that Nemeth or Pacheco has overtaken Voronin in the pecking order... like to

Do you think what I said makes sense though? You can see what I'm trying to say can't you. Every manager has their own different ways though..

But yes I think Nemeth and Pacheco should have overtaken Voronin in the pecking order, but I think Rafa would stick with Voronin before him. El Zhar and Insua look decent too, now Rafa HAS to show faith in them, he has to!

Yeah i know what you mean i have for a while thought we were a tad too cautious with youngsters but with the fabregas thing i think he is the rare exception. Francesc Fabregas made his debut at 16, since that Wenger hasnt really played a player that young or even 17 in his first team much. His approach to youth players can be a little exaggerated (I dont mean you Ra Ra i mean arsenal fans haha) he does admittedly use more youth players than most but the main time they are used is the carling cup. The next set of arsenal youth is starting to come through now i think in the shape of theo walcott (i know he's 19 now but i mean from when they bought him he has been eased into the side), Jack Wilshere (very young english player) and Aaron Ramsey (i think we all know about him).

I feel that the main difference between the two managers is that Arsene Wenger always looks to use a side made up predominantly of youth players when it comes to the carling cup, with one or two experinced players mixed in and on the bench. But i do think rafa has a plan, think about before this season the only player we have really used at an age as low as 17 was probably Insua when he had first joined and our pre season teams normally consisted of all first teamers and only ever a youngster who rafa rated very highly. Last season i think we were all suprised when we went onto the official website or even onto here in the Arsenal Liverpool thread and saw Plessis' name in the liverpool line up. And i think his fantastic performance actually helped our youth players as it gave rafa more reason to have faith in our youngsters.

Reading the comments from Nemeths national team manager worried me a tad the other day. He stated that Nemeth will be wasted at liverpool if he doesnt get the first team chances he needs because he is ready. I do feel they will get chances at liverpool but i think some players will obviously have it tougher than others. Even Lucas is having trouble now, he isnt a DM we all know that but what chance does he have of moving Gerrard out of the side, its not gerrards fault obviously but it does make it difficult to impress as lucas has probably never played DM before coming to us and pretty much all of our fans rated him on his performances in a new position instead of looking at the fact he doesnt even play there. The one thing i worry about with the youth is whether in a situation like both yossi and kuyt out injured, would rafa take a chance and give El Zhar or another right winger a shot at first team football. Plessis showed last season 'you don't know until you try it'.

Sorry for another essay haha

Then again... what has wengers youth won him... nothing, there's clearly a balence that needs to be found of nurturing and neglecting youth without detromentally causing an effect in the teams success

 By naturing, do you mean getting them to take their clothes off and play in the countryside ?

By naturing, do you mean getting them to take their clothes off and play in the countryside ?

I don't think he does no..... well you never no ... but no...

Nurturing!

I see your point on the Pacheco issue. But The players need to develop their game and also mature.

Agree with Lilcisse that Fabregas is a rare exception of a teenager breaking into the first team that early but I also feel that we have a few young players who should be playing a lot more games this season.

I would rather see the likes of Nemeth, Pacheco, Plessis, Darby, El Zhar and Insua given a chance rather than using Pennant, Voronin, Finnan etc. I'm not saying that these players should be regulars but maybe get more games in the Carling Cup and used as subs in a League game where we are in control.

I do believe that Rafa intends to use these players a lot more this season as they have featured right up to the end of pre season where in previous seasons he has nonly used them in the first few games.

On the subject of Wenger I know he likes to bring through these young players but I also feel he uses this as an excuse sometimes for his teams failings. It's easy to criticise a manager who spends money on big name players and fails but people don't seem to be so harsh and critical when it is just 'kids' in the failing team.

There is no substitute to a players development than playing first team football, no matter it is being out on loan or playing with the first team. I hope that Rafa will use the chance to play these kids a bit more and evidence of this is the fact Rafa never went out and buy a player on the free to fill out the squad list.

Good topic by the way Ra Ra

Finally Ra Ra, a decent topic you've made mate! Just joshin.

Rather Hammill, Darby, Pacheco, Ngog, Nemeth, Insua, Anderson and Spearing play than Pennant, Voronin, Aurellio, Finnan and co. to be honest. They will bring more spirit and attacking fair along with a new attitude to the side in which Aurellio, Jermain and Voro cannot provide.

Ok i rate Pennant but Hammill adds more to the side than he does. Now that we dont have Crouch, we dont need Jermain as he wont really have a target man to nod away a header and he doesnt have a passing game. He is a great player but not one suited to us.

Voro, brilliant one second (even if some dont see it) but just diabolic the next.

Aurellio, he is a great player but once he shows it, he gets injured.

I would happily sacrifice some players if it meant more involvement for our young lads. They have proved themselves, what else can they do to play in the side?

Finally Ra Ra, a decent topic you've made mate! Just joshin.

Rather Hammill, Darby, Pacheco, Ngog, Nemeth, Insua, Anderson and Spearing play than Pennant, Voronin, Aurellio, Finnan and co. to be honest. They will bring more spirit and attacking fair along with a new attitude to the side in which Aurellio, Jermain and Voro cannot provide.

Ok I rate Pennant but Hammill adds more to the side than he does. Now that we dont have Crouch, we dont need Jermain as he wont really have a target man to nod away a header and he doesnt have a passing game. He is a great player but not one suited to us.

Voro, brilliant one second (even if some dont see it) but just diabolic the next.

Aurellio, he is a great player but once he shows it, he gets injured.

I would happily sacrifice some players if it meant more involvement for our young lads. They have proved themselves, what else can they do to play in the side?

Yep, an in all respect to Stoke and Hull and West Brom, but our young guys are better than their players so there is no reason that some cant get a game

Then again... what has wengers youth won him... nothing, there's clearly a balence that needs to be found of nurturing and neglecting youth without detromentally causing an effect in the teams success

Exactly, it's all about a balance I think, it's obviously good giving youth first team experience but relying on them (ie. Arsenal) isn't good for them.
I hope that Rafa, as you said Ra Ra will let Pacheo etc. have 20 mins or so if we are winning comfortably.

Exactly, it's all about a balance I think, it's obviously good giving youth first team experience but relying on them (ie. Arsenal) isn't good for them.
I hope that Rafa, as you said Ra Ra will let Pacheo etc. have 20 mins or so if we are winning comfortably.

I think... that, we can risk... actually not even risk, i think we can start Pacheco or Insua against the so called "weaker" teams

I think... that, we can risk... actually not even risk, I think we can start Pacheco or Insua against the so called "weaker" teams

It's a possibility that Rafa must be thinking too, I don't know start, but I think they would play like the full second half or similar.

Ra Ra, not often (if ever) I praise one of your posts so why start now.

That's why it's so imperative we get rid of Voronin asap! While he's at Liverpool he'll get the nod over the youngsters.

We've got the best leftback in the U-21 world in Insua...so why don't we get rid of Aurelio, Arbeloa and Dossenna ASAP?
We've got Stephen Darby ready for right back...why not get rid of Degen, Arbeloa and Finnan ASAP?
We've got Pacheco, Nemeth and to a lesser extent Lindfield ready for first team football...so why not get rid of Babel, Kuyt, N'Gog and Torres ASAP?

You've YET AGAIN singled out Voronin as the only player we need to let go. Voronin will be lucky to get 15 appearances in all comps this season (includin off the bench) he's hardly stoppin the progress of a young lad. Someone like Aurelio/Kuyt who's likely to rake up somewhere between 30-50 games a season are the ones who hinderin the youth. Insua is ready for first team football so we spend 8 million on a new left back...hinderin his progress. Not Voronin. Insua as anyone with a football brain (which probably rules you out Ra Ra) will tell you he's a star in the makin. He's now ready. Last two seasons he's been playin at the back end of the year, this season is the one where he was gonna make an impact and make the left back position his own, he probably won't get those chances now. It's not only our young forwards who are ready, therefore it's not only Voronin who is stoppin our ready youngsters from playin.

But bein the childish pr**k you are you single out Voronin because you have a personal vendetta against him.

Loved seeing Pacheco and Spearing on today...Pacheco looks really confident and quick on the ball. He made some really incisive passes. Quality there no doubt.

This could be a significant season for both players.


I'd like to see Rafa using our youth more in the coming months

when will the likes of Nemeth return?


thoughts?

Nemteh is back end of the season I think...


Im glad Pacheco is getting some mins. We have seen plenty of Ngog and Spearing this season. Rafa might as well get rid of the crap and buy 1 or 2 quality players and let these youngsters to step it up

when will the likes of Nemeth return?

To be honest i don't think he will return to the club