Milan Jovanovic (Liverpool -> Anderlect)

He was free.

 Aye he was. And like Cole and Deggen, he got a big signing on fee and big wages. They'll be costing us 10 million quid per season in wages, so hopefully someone else will take them on a "free" and do us a favour.

 As for Jovanovic, he is absolutely awful and was a terrible aquisition, "free" or otherwise.

Come through his operation ok and is looking for a club as stated by himself, don't have no ill feeling towards the lad personally, he's just not good enough for this league and the fact that we had to look towards players like him is testament to the former owners.

Poor mans Kuyt

120k a week is an absolute joke.

Rafa gave him 120k ? Haha holy shiiiiit

Rafa gave him 120k ? Haha holy shiiiiit

No Rafa never, Purslow gave him a weekly wage and then added his signing on fee over 12 months which knocked it up to 120k for 12 months.

Apparently wanted by Anderlcht.

Apparently wanted by Anderlcht.

Also Benfica and Olympiakos. Another one out the door.
Thanks for the game against Arsenal, pity it didn't work out.

I think Milan will sort a new Club out no probs. 

He resigned himself a while ago to not being part of Kenny's future plans so won't linger any longer than necessary.

 

Apparently wanted by Anderlcht.

Can they afford 120K per week? Me thinks it'll be one of those "we'll pay two thirds, you pay the other third" deals. Another 4 million quid a year down the Swannee.

  Can they afford 120K per week? Me thinks it'll be one of those "we'll pay two thirds, you pay the other third" deals. Another 4 million quid a year down the Swannee.

Can't see it myself. Think he will take a huge pay cut to wherever he leaves to.

  Can they afford 120K per week? Me thinks it'll be one of those "we'll pay two thirds, you pay the other third" deals. Another 4 million quid a year down the Swannee.

It wasn't 120k per week in salary, as has been mentioned loads of times it was part of the signing on fee paid over 12 months.

Not sure what his basic salary actually is, but I still imagine it'll be more than Anderlecht (or whoever) will want to pay him. But the lad clearly wants to play first team and, like anny rd, I feel he'll take a pay cut to get that chance.

I can see one of those deal where we loan him out with an agreed fee at the end of the year if they want them, which ends up resulting in the club wanting to pay less than what they agreed on and he ends up back here for pre-season. Sort of like Aqua situation. Seems to happen to players who make very high wages and are wanted abroad.

Serious question here for the "he's not good enough" camp - why are you so adamant about this?

Maxi wasn't good enough under Hodgson's reign and even as a bit of a fan of Maxi, I accepted this - but I knew well enough of Maxi and combined that with the fact that judging him based on his time under Hodgson was in vein because it really wasn't an indicator of his true ability.  Lo and behold, Kenny squeezes goals out of the lad and some great performances to boot.  Maxi is now deemed "good enough to be a squad player" all of a sudden*.  Without going into too much detail about Maxi because, you know, it's the Milan Jovanovic player thread - was just an example.

Why is Milan Jovanovic not good enough?  Don't get me wrong, I understand Kenny's decision to not play him, I don't agree with it personally but I understand the reasoning for it.  I'd like a debate about the merits or lack of merits about the player and not the politics of it all.  The question I'm asking is;

Why is Milan Jovanovic, in your opinion, not good enough to get some game time under his belt?

* note: if you're not of this opinion, fair enough - you'd at the very least have to accept he's done enough in other people's opinions for them to think that and I'm sure you've seen enough of it happen to admit that while it might not be your opinion, you've seen others take that stance.  We're not debating Maxi though, only an example - this is about Jovanovic.

Maxi for all his weaknesses is a steady possession player and has shown significant glimpses of ability from time to time, that's the difference. There's nothing standout about him, but he does use the ball efficiently helping us to maintain possession at least, and he's reasonably good at linking the play with a subtle pass or flick here and there, and of course of late he's added goals to his game even though that doesn't appear to be a particular strength of his. For me though he's still a squad player at best and I wouldn't be disappointed to see him move on. Jovanovic on the other hand has shown nothing to make me either think he's ever likely to be able hold down a starting position or that he would be a useful option from the bench and his wages make it all the more necessary to move him on ASAP.

Just so there's no confusion, his wages are around the £45k a week mark.  He's hard working, team orientated, tidy (even if somewhat unspectacular) in his link up play, has the right mentality, very quick (I'd say he's the quickest player in our squad, in fact), a talented finisher, a proven goalscorer and can play in 2 different positions comfortably and even do a job up front leading the line.  His performances at international level seem to indicate he's got no problem with coming off the bench and making an impact.  Not a bad free-kick/penalty taker too.

I don't think he's got it in him to be a first team starter (I'd rate him slightly above Maxi overall but they're obviously different types of players) but as a squad player, I quite rate the lad.  Was actually a little bit gutted he didn't get a fair go under Kenny.  I can't understand how people can come to the conclusion that he's sh*t.  I'm inclined to believe not very many people have actually watched the lad play (apart from his time here that is - while I understand "it's only his time here that matters etc." - he hasn't actually been given a fair go).

What aspects of Milan's game are so terrible that they stand out.  I'll concede he's very one-footed, what makes him sh*t though?

Kenny sees him in training every day. He got little time under Kenny. Tells its own story

Kind of wanted some debate with more substance than that though.  I've seen Kenny's take on this unfold in front of my very eyes, I could have very easily deduced it myself.

We don't know what money he's on but no doubt it'll be good money given that he was on a free and probably had other options. Whether he's on a reported £120k a week or 'just' the £45k a week, it's too much for a player who, in my opinion, apparently Kenny's too, is not good enough. I wouldn't pinpoint any particular area of his game because I think all round he isn't good enough. You say he's 'very quick', I think he's of average pace and definitely not the fastest player in our squad: Suarez, Gerrard and Johnson, to name just three, are all quicker than he is. Pace though is nothing without a good football brain as Babel, Cisse and others have demonstrated over the years and Jovanovic for me is in that bracket. Players who have a tendency to get their head down and run into traffic, players who make it easy for the opposition.

The reported £120k a week is only for his first year which incorporates his signing on fee which we didn't pay upfront in a lumpsum as is the usual procedure.  Either way, his wages are considerably lower than that reported amount, so I don't believe it's an entirely fair stick to beat him with.  I'm in complete agreeance with you in saying that we're not getting value for money, but yourself (and no doubt some others) will say it's due to his quality, whereas I'm coming at it more from the "well we're not playing him, so naturally it's a poor return" angle.

Not at all a fan of the whole "well Kenny doesn't rate him" approach to all this because there's no point in giving opinions ever if all they are going to be is "Kenny said this", "I trust Kenny's decision" etc.  I could just as easily play the "well the Real Madrid/AC Milan/Juventus bosses all wanted him and I trust their call" but I didn't.  To be fair, you did also give other reasons besides that, so I'm not having a go at you for it - merely addressing every point you've made about the matter.  It also neglects the possibility that politics haven't been an issue in the matter and it's not such a crazy assumption to make.

As for the lad's pace, I'm sorry but Jova is bloody quick (guess some stats would be useful here, hey? ), take a look at some old footage of any kind and I"m sure you'll come to this realisation (even highlights videos will surely show him making runs of some sort) - I understand people saying he's got a tendency to get his head down and run into traffic, that's a very valid criticism but Carragher is slow, Agger is injury prone, Gerrard lacks discipline, Suarez lacks aerial ability etc.  It's fair to say that not every player will be the complete package, I also understand that those above mentioned players also have some excellent characteristics too so I'm not picking on them, just pointing out that quite often a player won't excel at absolutely every single aspect of his game.

As for his lack of footballing brain, having watched him for over a year prior to moving to Liverpool - I'd have to strongly disagree.  He's a tidy footballer (albeit in a scrappy way at times) and like all of them prone to bad decisions/choices but I wouldn't label him incredibly clever in his play nor would I say he's below average, quite standard really.  We've got less intelligent (football brain wise) players on the books who are featured on a somewhat regular basis.

He also admitted in an interview that Hodgson was instructing him to change his natural game (which is a fair call, you do what the manager asks) but surely you need to give them some time to attempt such a thing (Standard Liege/Serbia were a completely different kettle of fish compared to Liverpool under Hodgson), the fact he was not afforded even a little bit of time to do so made me a little disappointed about the whole situation.  Not forgetting he was adjusting to completely new surroundings and different style of league, a little leeway wouldn't have gone astray.

I've seen him make it incredibly difficult for the opposition, I don't get it?

Jovanovic didn't have much of a shot under Dalglish because 1) Maxi was on fire on the left wing, 2) We were often playing a 4-3-3(ish) with Kuyt, Suarez and Carroll... who would always be ahead of Jovanovic and 3) Other than the Arsenal match, he never showed any desire.

Kenny is about desire, work-rate and commitment... alongside quality of play and passing the ball. I don't think Jova qualifies as any of these, except for moments of quality from time to time. I was hoping he would succeed, but he hasn't and I don't think it is all that confusing. Mark Gonzalez had the exact same problem with us... sometimes the Premiership is just a step too far for these types of players.

How do you know his wages are 'considerably lower' than the reported amounts? I strongly suspect that, like the rest of us, you're taking your information from press reports and a sense of what you would expect such a player to be paid. If you've seen his bank account details, fair enough like. Eaither way it doesn't make a difference to my opinion on Jovanovic.

The view of Kenny carries more weight than the view of the Real Madrid or Juventus manager in that he's actually seen Jovanovic close up in action and hasn't fancied using him much. And to be frank, I reckon the Madrid/Juve managers must be fecking delighted they've dodged this one. How he was ever so highly rated is pretty baffling to me but you do get that in football occasionally. We fought off competition from Spurs to sign Dossena in the apparent belief that he was the solution to our left back problems. How wrong we were.

Again, about his pace I think you're having a laugh if you think he's 'bloody quick'. A speedometer could prove otherwise of course but, to my eyes, he gives the illusion of being quick with his dribbling ability (which he uses to drive into dead ends), without actually being that quick. The other players I mentioned are almost certainly quicker than him in my opinion, and we don't have too many pacey players in our squad anyway.

Isn't he aged 30 or something as well? All the more reason to get rid while we still can. If we don't, then 12 months down line and having made no significant contribution to the team, he'll have cost us goodness knows how many millions in wages and likely be harder to shift.

You honestly think Jovanovic lacks desire, work rate and commitment?  Do you not remember his goal in the Europa League where he ran over to the cameras and shouted into them, "I'm staying here" [in response to the rumours that Hodgson had froze him out].  His numerous interviews with newspapers saying that he'll fight for his spot and that he doesn't expect it to be handed to him, telling the national team coach to not consider picking him for national selection until he starts playing for Liverpool on a regular basis.  I understand people questioning his quality, the matter is a lot more subjective - but I'd think those types of examples would at the very least, not make question people his desire, work-rate and commitment.  He turned down a move citing he wants to "fight for his spot", it wasn't a case of failing to reach personal terms.

As for wages, seeing none of us "truly know", we can't comment on it at all and to try so I guess anyone beating him with that stick is wrong.  The view of Kenny is irrelevent in this discussion, like I said - if I wanted Kenny's opinion, I'd have asked him, tried to work it out myself or not bothered posting.  I want YOUR opinions, not Kennys.  Note, I'm not saying Kenny's opinion is irrelevent, just that it's redundant in a discussion between fans and their beliefs.

Yeah, I'd agree with you in saying we don't have a particularly fast squad but I'm positive Jovanovic is actually a quick lad, when I started watching the guy it was probably the first thing that stood out for me - I was kinda pleased.  Not that it's a really debate settling point but he's been nicknamed "the Serbian Snake" due to his quick movement.  My guess is that it would indicate other people share a similar opinion to me, again not a "well that's it sorted" call to make more of a "something to think about it" sort of deal.  I'll try get in touch with a few people who might be able to shed some light on the matter.  I personally think he's the fastest player in our squad.

I think he's still technically 29 but about to turn 30 (or perhaps just turned 30), but yes somewhere around there.  Again, I can understand people saying we need to get rid while we can because he actually has some resale value but I was kinda hoping for a discussion about his genuine footballing ability or if you so prefer, his genuine lack of footballing ability - all I've got so far has been "oh all around he's genuinely poor" or the twos criticism of his game which I actually agree with.  Nobody has come out and said anything more specific and that's where I was hoping this discussion would go.  Still keep hearing the generic, "not good enough all around" - that's the kind of things I'd expect a commentator to say, it's not the in depth and valued discussion I would've hoped for from more intelligent and well reasoned fans.