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      The difference between two derbies

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      RedLFCBlood
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      The difference between two derbies
      Oct 22, 2010 09:06:43 pm
      The difference between two derbies – illustrating the change from Benitez to Hodgson.

      http://timhi.wordpress.com/2010/10/22/two-derbies-two-manager/

      It was no surprise that Liverpool lost the 214th Merseyside derby given their woeful start to the season. No Liverpool fan, not even the most pessimistic of follower, would have fathomed such baffling results and such perturbing performances on the field given the strength of their squad at the start of the season.

      With some trading-up and trading-down from both Rafael Benitez and Roy Hodgson over the past couple of seasons, the majority of the Liverpool team still remain from the title challenging season of 2008-09. Crippled by the Hick’s and Gillett’s unwillingness to service the promises they provided when they took over the club, Liverpool stumbled around the Premier League last season, like a common drunk who is just about on their last legs before slumping face first into the bar.

      Nevertheless, even during this turbulent period, Liverpool have managed to save face in Merseyside by having a good record over their neighbours. "The Chosen One" admitted before the match that his team’s record against Liverpool was frustrating. Moyes speaks the truth here; from twelve Premier League Merseyside derbies, Rafael Benitez oversaw 8 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses – an impressive record in a game where it is often said that “anything can happen – it depends who wants it more ad nauseum ad nauseum” and “you can never predict anything in such a game.”

      On the run up to the latest league Derby, Everton hadn’t won one in the last seven matches. Roy Hodgson should have had confidence in his squad to continue such a run. This confidence was unlikely to be shared by anyone who has seen the performances of Hodgson’s Liverpool side and Everton were likely to seize their chance and notch up a needed win against their homebody.

      But to start, a look at English football reporting lexicon

      Match reports that follow a Derby follow a familiar trend; there are usual hints towards the losing team ‘wanting it less’ or the team ‘lacked the passion and adrenaline. Such phrases are often hackneyed and rarely describe the actual match situation, throwing any real observations out for worn-out and banal expressions. It’s alarming how many military-based phrases are used in football reporting; such parlances are only used because it has fit with the English idea of football being ‘a battle’ where ‘no men can hide’. Such mutterings are hyped-up beyond belief when it comes down to a local rivalry, with my favourite phrase being ‘he’s the type of man you need in the trenches’ – what utter twoddle. Whereas football in Europe is seen as a mobilised version of Chess, in England, military metaphors are rife and illustrates the strength of one particular team and any mention of tactical problems are often not noted. When it comes to a derby, Rafael Honigstein has it right when he says “in England, tactics is another word for weakness.”

      I don’t accept the nauseating excuse of Liverpool lacking passion or desire; these players have played at the highest level and don’t bottle it as some commentators would lead you to believe. There is a proper answer to why Liverpool lost at the weekend and it’s to do with Hodgson’s organisation of his team.

      The main criticism of Hodgson has been his complete turnaround in the way Liverpool play without the ball. Hodgson’s Liverpool aim to sit deep and keep their shape – this is no surprise, it is well documented that Hodgson’s training methods are primarily based on team shape and defensive structure

      Such methods are a stark contrast compared to Liverpool’s pressing game under Rafael Benitez, who if there was a ‘Arrigo Sacchi Fan Club’, he would undoubtedly be the first one to join, giving him to a free Saachi face-mask as well as a year’s membership. Not only did fans like Benitez’s proactive methods, the team reacted well to the constriction of space and forcing the opposition into mistakes. This made Liverpool notably hard to play against; Wesley Sneijder, after Real Madrid’s 4-0 loss at Anfield in 2009, stated how difficult it was to see Madrid players amongst the wall of red shirts that surrounded him every time he picked up the ball.

      Such philosophy has now been dismantled and Liverpool’s new defensive mantra is around keeping a deeper line, which has a knock-on effect in all areas of the pitch. This was clearly illustrated in the Derby.


      Liverpool deep defensive line

      By playing a deeper line, it results in there being larger spaces in between the midfield and defence if the game is stretched. In the shot below, the gap between Skrtel and Meireles is so big it even allows Yakubu to stand beneath them without either of them touching him (a cheap shot, I know). Such large gaps allow Everton to pass around and keep possession in dangerous areas of the pitch without much disturbance.


      Yakubu illustrates how large the gap between midfield and defence sometimes is

      Keeping with the terminology of the recent CSR, such a deep-line has a multiplier effect. Firstly, as mentioned already, it allows Everton plenty of time to and space to find a teammate because of the space available to them. Secondly, when Liverpool win the ball-back, they’re starting from a deeper position without an obvious out-ball – this is because the midfielders are now so deep that passing the ball to them will place them in a precarious position where they will immediately be put under pressure. With midfielders now deeper to help protect the back-four, it leads to a huge a gap between them and the forward line meaning the direct ball to the centre forward will be fruitless. However, such route one ideas are the only sure-fire way of relieving the pressure and Liverpool often went long, an act that fans do not revere to.



      Everton had the right idea in the first-half, they looked to press and put real pressure onto the Liverpool back-line and midfielders. Without Daniel Agger, Liverpool look nervous at the back and Everton really made Martin Skrtel and Sotoris Kyrigakos wish they had brought a second pair of undies to Goodison Park. This pressure from Everton led to Liverpool passing it around at the back in a useless fashion, or hoofing it up to Torres for try and make something out of it.


      Everton's relentless pressing in the first-half

      A look at the Guardian chalkboards shows how Liverpool’s defence passed amongst themselves, rarely looking to the midfield in the middle of the park. This is especially illustrated in the first-half where Liverpool have a non-existent midfield. With Everton pressing so ferociously, the Liverpool defence had little choice to try longer balls, bypassing the midfield.

      By dropping so deep, it leads to an unbreakable cycle of inviting pressure, smashing it long, losing the ball, allow the opposition to keep possession and then when they win it back deep, the cycle starts all over again


      In the first 20 minutes Liverpool only passed the ball from inside Everton's half two times.

      In the opening twenty minutes, Liverpool only attempted two pass whilst in Everton’s half. Such a statistic just goes to show how Everton penned Liverpool into their own half. This was a product of playing such a rigid defensive system where midfielders are now so deep they cannot link the play.

      Another aspect of the Derby was Liverpool’s lack of invention and penetration when they actually have the ball.

      "The Chosen One" admitted just as much after the game, stating:

      “After we got the second goal, I was happy to concede possession to Liverpool. It wasn`t a problem. They haven`t been scoring. One or two were too close for comfort but we also had opportunities on the break to get a third goal.”

      It’s a clear indictment of the problems suffered by Hodgson’s Liverpool when a team isn’t worried about whether Liverpool have the ball or not. Some may have seen Everton’s tactics in the second-half as them trying to give Liverpool a lifeline but for those who have the displeasure of watching Liverpool this season know that creativity and penetration are not attributes that can be aligned to the Liverpool class of 2010-11.

      Examining the second-half passing chalkboards from Liverpool shows a dreary trend – that the ball only moved sideways. There were only three successful balls into the box throughout the whole game. The chalkboard reads like a flightmap to and from London Heathrow and it just illustrates the lack of invention, creativity and confidence infused within the Liverpool players at the moment. Without a plan of attack, Liverpool found themselves launching it into the box in an act of desperation.


      Flightmaps are just as interesting as Liverpool's passing chalkboards

      Looking back to previous seasons…

      For Liverpool, such trends are in stark comparison to the Merseyside match-ups seen in previous seasons. The following section will look at Liverpool’s 2-0 win away at Everton last year.

      There was little difference between the way the teams lined up and Everton’s off-the-ball methods – they pressed high up the pitch and kept a high line.

      Liverpool on the other hand looked a completely different team both on and off the ball. On the ball they moved with purpose and obviously had a game-plan. Their movement was quick and penetrative, helping to provide a base for Liverpool to keep possession and control the match, something that cannot be said for many of Liverpool’s games under Roy Hodgson.

      There are marked differences in the use of wide players in this 2-0 Liverpool win. Both Kuyt and Aurelio stay predominantly wide and high up the pitch. This stopped Everton’s full-backs getting forward and joining the midfield or looking for the overlap further up the pitch. This allows Liverpool’s full-backs, Johnson and Insua space to run into and join the midfield and time their runs into the final third.


      Aurelio (red) and Insua (yellow) were a great attacking threat last year

      These two players had a great influence over the game, constantly getting forward and pinning back Everton’s wide midfielders and making it hard for them to build from the back or support the Everton forward line if they went direct.



      However, as with Everton’s win this year, the crux of the victory was Liverpool’s ability to win the ball back high up the pitch and cause mistakes. An examination of the interceptions in both games highlights the differences in philosophy between Rafa Benitez and Roy Hodgson.



      This pressing high up the field was also compounded by Liverpool’s high line and offside trap that worked well against Jo. This approach is vastly different to the one employed by Roy Hodgson.



      For the players and the fans, such pressing psychologically affects the game. A team are wary about being closed down so they’re more likely to play a footballing version of ‘hot potato’ – constantly moving around without taking much responsibility in fear of making a mistake. Last weekend, Everton had time to think and make their mind up about where they wanted to send the ball.

      This Liverpool pressing had a knock-on effect, it allowed the front four to stay forward and expect a pass from midfield or defence. A marked problem in the derby last weekend was Joe Cole’s defensive duties and lack of opportunities to play higher up the pitch. His passing chalkboard shows how he spent vast majorities of his time helping the defence and trying to get Liverpool out of tight spots. This resulted in Torres having no support and nobody to link up with. In the previous year, Fabio Aurelio stayed wide and looked to link up with his fellow attacking trio.


      Joe Cole's extra defensive work

      This is a condensed version of events over the two games and just illustrates some of the differences between the two managers and the way they set up to play in a Merseyside Derby. It is a worry that Roy Hodgson believes his methods from Fulham can be replicated with the same “success” at a bigger club, he has shown a distinct lack of flexibility and understanding of how to manage the Liverpool squad and adapt his methods to players at his disposal.

      This match was not lost on accounts of lack of passion or any of that nonsense, it’s just simply that Liverpool were hindered by Roy Hodgson’s overly defensive and negative system that has continually negated the attacking talents of this Liverpool side.
      « Last Edit: Oct 22, 2010 09:31:27 pm by RedLFCBlood »
      RedPuppy
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      Re: The difference between two derbies
      Reply #1: Oct 22, 2010 09:21:35 pm
      Link? :roll:

      Doubt I'll read it. I bet is says we were better under Rafa than Roy? Yes?

      But good editing.
      andylfcynwa
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      Re: The difference between two derbies
      Reply #2: Oct 22, 2010 09:28:42 pm
      While being a great post its also very disturbing ,the facts set out there were what most of us suspected but having it so pain stakenly set out in that manner paints a great picture of why we are failing ,cant someone take a copy of this to the owners ,or at least print it and show it to roy  and ask him is this the masterfull plan he has been working on for the last 35 years ,c**t of a man for even trying  to make us play this way.
      corballyred
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      Re: The difference between two derbies
      Reply #3: Oct 22, 2010 09:29:56 pm
      Read that blood, excellant article Tomkins is a brilliant journalist
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: The difference between two derbies
      Reply #4: Oct 22, 2010 09:32:38 pm

      Link ?

      I wrote it myself.





































      Just kidding I must have missed it out was a big article with loads of pictures, now edited with Link.
      red_squirrel
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      Re: The difference between two derbies
      Reply #5: Oct 22, 2010 09:42:06 pm
      Excellent post.  It has to be sent to the owners.  I can't take much more of this sitting back and being dominated (obviously I meant the football  ;))
      crzy_jkr@u
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      Re: The difference between two derbies
      Reply #6: Oct 22, 2010 11:30:56 pm
      That's what I call an analysis. I hope one of the 19 guests is Mr Henry...
      Adryan
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      Re: The difference between two derbies
      Reply #7: Oct 22, 2010 11:57:03 pm
      That was a great piece of analysis.

      It's pretty clear that the negative tactics Roy has employed isn't helping the team neither offensively nor defensively. If he's being too defensive, why the heck are we still conceding so many goals?
      chats
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      Re: The difference between two derbies
      Reply #8: Oct 23, 2010 12:57:23 am
      Didn't we get completely battered in last year's derby at Goodison?

      The articles true and has good points but we weren't very good at all in last year's derby (at Goodison that is, Anfield was a boss team performance).
      miroa12004
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      Re: The difference between two derbies
      Reply #9: Oct 23, 2010 01:29:36 am
      Didn't we get completely battered in last year's derby at Goodison?

      The articles true and has good points but we weren't very good at all in last year's derby (at Goodison that is, Anfield was a boss team performance).

      As far as I know we came out winning 2-0 and we weren't streched by the bitters at any time, they rarely had clear cut chances and most of their dangerous balls, if there ever was one, were from long shots.
      kelvo
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      Re: The difference between two derbies
      Reply #10: Oct 23, 2010 07:51:19 am
      Excellent and the main point we are struggling at the moment, under Rafa we always pressed and had a higher line.

      Sitting so deep and inviting the opposition on is a tactic used by lesser teams in the hope of a quick break to steal a goal against technically better opponents. This is our managers mentality Im afraid people  :o

      Roy...........you are manager of LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB FFS!!!!

      Attack Attack Attack!!!!!
      Billy1
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      Re: The difference between two derbies
      Reply #11: Oct 23, 2010 08:07:28 am
      Didn't we get completely battered in last year's derby at Goodison?

      The articles true and has good points but we weren't very good at all in last year's derby (at Goodison that is, Anfield was a boss team performance).
      We definitely beat them last season 2-0 and Torres got both goals in the 58 and 62 minutes according to my little notebook.We drew the return match at Anfield 1-1,Gerrard scored  in the 67 minute and Cahill scored for Everton after Benayoun gave away a free kick.cheers.
      molby86
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      Re: The difference between two derbies
      Reply #12: Oct 23, 2010 08:53:21 am
      This proves what I have thought all season since Roy came in - we are far too deep to be effective in attack
      thereds13
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      Re: The difference between two derbies
      Reply #13: Oct 23, 2010 09:03:33 am
      We definitely beat them last season 2-0 and Torres got both goals in the 58 and 62 minutes according to my little notebook.We drew the return match at Anfield 1-1,Gerrard scored  in the 67 minute and Cahill scored for Everton
       after Benayoun gave away a free kick.cheers.
      No we didnt,
      Last season we beat Everton 2-0 at Goodison thanks to a deflected Mach goal and aa late goal from Kuyt, at Anfield we beat them 1-0 thanks to a Kuyt goal. The season you a reffering to is 2008/09.
      « Last Edit: Oct 23, 2010 09:38:05 am by thereds13 »
      Billy1
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      Re: The difference between two derbies
      Reply #14: Oct 23, 2010 09:14:16 am
      No we didnt,
      Last season we beat Everton 2-0 at Goodison thanks to a deflected Mach goal and aa late goal from Kuyt, at Anfield we beat them 1-0 thanks to a Kuyt goal. The season you a reffering to is 2008/09.
      You are correct I was looking at the wrong notebook.I keep a record of every match who played,who scored and the subs and if and when they came on.Thanks for putting me right.
      red_kaiser
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      Re: The difference between two derbies
      Reply #15: Oct 23, 2010 09:52:17 am
      Basically a very sophisticated version of what every layman knows.
      TKIDLLTK
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      Re: The difference between two derbies
      Reply #16: Oct 23, 2010 10:48:55 am
      Basically a very sophisticated version of what every layman knows.

      ;D indeed, we need to press high up the pitch, with a higher defensive line.  I was critical of Rafa for not always pressing high enough up the pitch, but watching our great club stifled by Roy just makes me want to die.
      macca8
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      Re: The difference between two derbies
      Reply #17: Oct 23, 2010 11:51:07 am
      When you're playing up the midfield, the space between the defensive and midfield area is narrowed, thus less opportunity for opponent to work on or getting their passing right. When Rafa opted that formation, with our defensive sitting near the centre line, the margin for error were so little, barely little opportunity created by opponent. Meanwhile, we operated perfectly well with that system with constant pressing and forcing opponent to make mistakes. We worked as a unit and creating much chance for Torres or even Gerrard to capitalize on every single chances we got.

      While Roy opted for the same formation, but he ignored the same tactic used by Rafa. Our defenders sits well deep in our own half while our midfield occupy the midfield zone, thus creating a large gap between them allowing opponent more passing and chances. Most of the time, we were being pressed as our defend sat too deep and couldn't move fast to cut out any threats.

      Even though both managers always used their players in wrong positions, but it seems Rafa did got the best out of them as his tactic allowed them to roam free and moved as unit. Everyone contributed in attack while Roy's tactic restrict players to their own area and play within their respective position. This what made Cole looked like he's not contributing enough as he was not allowed to do what he does best.
      solodee
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      Re: The difference between two derbies
      Reply #18: Oct 23, 2010 01:13:15 pm
      Any manager that tells his team to sit back and soak up attack from the opposition at the very first whistle is crap.
      LFCexiled
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      Re: The difference between two derbies
      Reply #19: Oct 23, 2010 02:09:51 pm
      I find this absolutely incredible:



      So that's what happened in the second half and he thinks we dominated it and should be F***ing happy with the performance?

      I don't annoy easy but this man is incredibly annoying.
      Johncolf
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      Re: The difference between two derbies
      Reply #20: Oct 23, 2010 03:02:59 pm
      Roy said we played wonderful and could have easily won 2.3 are you sure these fact are correct
      Adryan
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      Re: The difference between two derbies
      Reply #21: Oct 23, 2010 03:07:39 pm
      Right now, what formation is used does not matter, it's the freaking tactics that are employed.

      We can play 8-1-1, 4-4-2, 10-0-0 and yet be and attacking but it's the tactics Roy have employed in every game isn't helping us offensively (lack of goals) and defensively (too many conceded).

      We sit back when we don't have the ball and as RLB stated, that invites pressure and opponents to come at us whereas Rafa set us out to pressure opponents in their halves, making them make mistakes which we may capitalise on.

      With the ball, Roy prefers hoofs up to the centre forward than it being played on the ground and with the creativity and attacking flair the players at his disposal possess, it's not working for them.

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