Birmingham 1 - 1 Liverpool - In-game and Post-match

Priorities? The order of importance to something or someone. Yesterday, Rafael Benitez chose to prioritize the Europa League over the Champions League. The way the team was set out said it all. And this statement is not just about the Torres substitution, it encompasses many mistakes that resulted in our inability to break down a team that allowed us onto them, again. Many posters have stated that they felt this was an attacking team, well, the first half, barring the Rodriguez crossbar strike, showed very little attacking intent at all. Any team that Rafa puts out that includes Kuyt and Lucas, we may as well start with nine men. The only reason i can think that Mascherano and Agger were rested, would have been due to the midweek excursion at Benfica. But didn't Gerrard, Torres, Johnson, Insua, Lucas, Carragher and Kuyt play too? Insua is getting raped every game he plays, it's getting embarassing to watch and teams are targetting our full backs more than ever.

Yesterday was an awkward encounter to watch, 2 counter attacking teams locking horns. While the onus is usually on the home team to attack, Birmingham were quite happy to let us onto them, a tactic they use frequently against the big sides, frustrate and stifle, pretty much the same style as Rafa employs. I feel that yesterday the onus was on us to attack, we were the side still in with a chance of Champions League qualification, Birmingham, comfortably mid table and mission accomplished, their mission?, to stay in the Premier League. Birmingham were quite happy to let us have the ball, and in the first half we did F**k all with it. I have watched the game twice, once via internet stream yesterday ( sh*t picture ) and today ( LFC TV ). It wasn't pretty second time around, in fact it just highlighted our inadequacies even more.

I've gone on about it all season, and i'll keep going on about it until it improves or Rafa changes it, the Lucas and Kuyt scenario. A lot of forumites are still in love with Lucas and Kuyt, and that is great for them, but i'm sure i'm watching a different game then. Kyrgiakos and Carragher were still hoofing the ball over the top of the midfield yesterday, and i am of the assumption that it is more preferable in their eyes than passing it to Lucas. I can see why they do it, ninety percent of the time it gets hit straight back to them anyway, so why bother?. I made a point of focussing more on Lucas' and Kuyt's gameplay to give a more informed assessment of their performances, what i saw was shocking. Players seem to not want to pass to Lucas when he is available, more often than not because he never makes space for himself. He is so static it's unbelievable. Gerrard, Maxi, Yossi, nobody even looked at him when they had the ball. Please don't percieve this to be a witch hunt, feel free to watch the game again and you'll see what i mean. Kuyt was substandard again, he can't even do the basics, yet he's always trying the complex, and please, no more YouTube clips of last season, that's gone.

The first half, well there's nothing of note to post about, lots of possession, passed it around a lot, did F**k all with it, Birmingham were happy that we posed no real threat, we were playing into their hands.

Second half, what changed the complexion? Steven Gerrard did. That goal in the 47th minute changed everything. A brilliantly taken goal by Gerrard and an excellent pass from Johnson  . Birmingham's game plan went out of the window, they had no choice but to come out and attack us. We started attacking the right flank with some purpose, Johnson coming into the game more. Then Birmingham struck, how the F**k McFadden got that cross in i'll never know. He was surrounded by Kyrgiakos, Insua and Yossi, this in turn drew Johnson into the middle, Carragher was drawn over too and Maxi should have picked up Ridgewell, or at least warned Johnson of his presence. The game opened up from here, and this is why i found the Torres substitution all the more bewildering. In all fairness to Torres, he was marked out of the game by 2 men, Johnson and Dan, an aspect we should have utilised to our advantage by involving Kuyt more, we didn't though. And when we did, he just did his usual dilly dally bollocks and killed the pace and fluidity. A great example of this when Lucas played a forward pass!, yes that's right, through to Kuyt and he just watched it go past him!. This pass just happened before the turning point of the game for me.

And after watching this calamitous play, and with Torres getting a bit more space due to the change in focus from Birmingham, Rafa takes Torres off in the 64th minute! Now if it had still been 0-0 at this point and we were going nowhere, then i'd have advocated the decision. The fact that Birmingham opened up more after their equaliser was indicative of the probability that they were confident of getting another goal and would play into our hands. And that's what did happen. Their tails were up and we exposed this.

Shortly after coming on, Johnson put in a brilliant cross for NGog and he should have least got the header on target, he didn't. Would Torres have scored it? We'll never know, but he is a much better aerial exponent than NGog is. Directly from this play Birmingham should have scored, Bowyer missed a sitter, a poor clearance from Insua, who had come across to cover Johnson after the NGog chance. Then Kuyt had a simple header back across goal to Maxi or NGog, he tried to score with his head instead. Then Rafa took Yossi off for Babel on 70 minutes. Yossi is a good player, i like him, but only in the middle of the pitch he is effective for us. Time after time he kept coming inside, just following his instinct, but forced to go against that instinct by poor team selection. On 72 minutes, another glorious chance for NGog, he put it wide, was it too much to expect him to put it on target?

We were now in the ascendency, Birmingham's back four were tired, an afternoon of virtual containment football was tiring them out. We had fresh legs out there, we should have finished them off. Babel made another break throught the middle, laid it off to NGog and ran on, NGog fu**ed the return up. Babel was coming into the game even more, another break down the left, gave it to Kuyt, Kuyt tried to do a girly little backflick, ended up standing on the ball and giving it to Dan and set up a counter attack for Birmingham, when all he had to do was a simple sidefoot back to Babel. Rafa then saw sense and too Kuyt off after 80 minutes of sh*te! Again, our supposed saviour gets 10 minutes to try and change the game, excellent idea! Babel again, broke down the left and put NGog in to cross to Maxi, who again should have scored, but hit it straight at Aquilani! There was a 2 foot gap to aim at, Hart was in no man's land.

The last five minutes were frantic. Gerrard urging us on, getting frustrated with the lack of movement around him. NGog getting a great chance to put Aquilani in but putting it behind him, Gerrard almost putting it in the top corner, then Maxi should have hit the target but blazed it over. Babel had another great chance, but put it in the side netting from a tight angle. Then came the golden chance, probably the pass of the season from Gerrard, NGog pulled it down brilliantly and then hit it F***ing straight at Joe Hart! Now i know we can't say what might have happened had Torres been on the pitch, but the glaring mistake is this, he WASN'T.

I feel Rafa should have gone with Babel up top with Torres from the off, this would have taken the focus off Torres slightly as Babel's pace would also have worried Dan and Johnson. Kuyt has no pace, so barring an aerial threat, Kuyt was basically impotent.

I'm going to make a few comments here now, and i expect a few neg's in all honesty, and the usual posse of forumites who usually gather round posters who go against the grain, systematically victimising people who dare speak out against Rafa. I'll probably get a ban too, but F**k it.

Rafa has spent over £230 million since his arrival in 2004. Never mind the F***ing net spend bollocks, never mind the owners, never mind the buy to sell. He has spent £230 million, regardless of how much he has recouped, he has spent that money. Over 75 signings in five years, that's roughly fifteen players a season. He chose to buy quantity over quality, he weighed up the options, and he made the choice. Nobody else did, Rafa did. Considering that the owners have pulled the purse strings in the last 2-3 seasons then that just highlights how wrong he got it the seasons before. From 75 players, you'd expect him to be able to field a pretty strong 25 man squad, that's excluding the current squad. Gerrard and Carra were already here. Roughly 75 players have come and gone.

His persistence this season with Lucas this season has cost us many games, we can bleat all we like about bad luck etc. Other teams have had bad luck too. Dirk Kuyt has been w*nk, we have Pacheco chomping at the bit, yet it is now a possibility that he may go on loan to Celtic! Kuyt may give his all, but his technical ability this season has been akin to Lucas'. What's different this season to last? Our defence has been completely altered and our central midfield unit is imbalanced, too much defence and nowhere near enough offence. Am i alone in seeing this? Am i the only one who thinks that Lucas isn't fit to wear the shirt? Am i the only one that cringes when i see Kuyt fail to control the ball again and again and again.

This may not sound like the statement of a man that supports Rafa, but i assure you it is. I love Rafa, i love that he loves this club, i feel for him when things go wrong, i respect him for sticking with us when he could so easily just F**k off to Madrid and build his own dynasty. My problem is this, he is making it harder for himself with every game that passes, we are expecting change, we are not seeing change. His refusal to play youngsters, why not give Kelly a shot at left back?, i know he's a right back, but what's to lose. Insua is out on his feet, he's only getting this run due to the injuries of Aurelio. Put Kelly right back and Johnson or Carra to left back. Drop Kuyt, pick Pacheco. Give Yossi a crack in the middle. Give Babel a try up top with Torres if you want to play a 4-4-2. Just try something different.

There's an old saying. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And if it's broke?........................ ........................ ........................ ...

What do you do if it's broke Rafa?........................ .. Pray tell.

Detailed recount, but if our fullbacks knew the fundamentals of defending this post would be thrown out the window.

Midfield didn't cost us the game, our striker and our right back did.

Note this post has not defended Lucas which someone will undoubtedly be thinking before they read this sentence.

Our midfield did its job in creating the chances for our striker, and it covered our defence when we didn't have the ball. Insua didn't cover/block his man when the ball came in and Johnson failed to pick his up. Ngog had 3 chances to win it and didn't.

Priorities? The order of importance to something or someone. Yesterday, Rafael Benitez chose to prioritize the Europa League over the Champions League. The way the team was set out said it all. And this statement is not just about the Torres substitution, it encompasses many mistakes that resulted in our inability to break down a team that allowed us onto them, again. Many posters have stated that they felt this was an attacking team, well, the first half, barring the Rodriguez crossbar strike, showed very little attacking intent at all. Any team that Rafa puts out that includes Kuyt and Lucas, we may as well start with nine men. The only reason I can think that Mascherano and Agger were rested, would have been due to the midweek excursion at Benfica. But didn't Gerrard, Torres, Johnson, Insua, Lucas, Carragher and Kuyt play too? Insua is getting raped every game he plays, it's getting embarassing to watch and teams are targetting our full backs more than ever.

Yesterday was an awkward encounter to watch, 2 counter attacking teams locking horns. While the onus is usually on the home team to attack, Birmingham were quite happy to let us onto them, a tactic they use frequently against the big sides, frustrate and stifle, pretty much the same style as Rafa employs. I feel that yesterday the onus was on us to attack, we were the side still in with a chance of Champions League qualification, Birmingham, comfortably mid table and mission accomplished, their mission?, to stay in the Premier League. Birmingham were quite happy to let us have the ball, and in the first half we did f**k all with it. I have watched the game twice, once via internet stream yesterday ( sh*t picture ) and today ( LFC TV ). It wasn't pretty second time around, in fact it just highlighted our inadequacies even more.

I've gone on about it all season, and I'll keep going on about it until it improves or Rafa changes it, the Lucas and Kuyt scenario. A lot of forumites are still in love with Lucas and Kuyt, and that is great for them, but I'm sure I'm watching a different game then. Kyrgiakos and Carragher were still hoofing the ball over the top of the midfield yesterday, and I am of the assumption that it is more preferable in their eyes than passing it to Lucas. I can see why they do it, ninety percent of the time it gets hit straight back to them anyway, so why bother?. I made a point of focussing more on Lucas' and Kuyt's gameplay to give a more informed assessment of their performances, what I saw was shocking. Players seem to not want to pass to Lucas when he is available, more often than not because he never makes space for himself. He is so static it's unbelievable. Gerrard, Maxi, Yossi, nobody even looked at him when they had the ball. Please don't percieve this to be a witch hunt, feel free to watch the game again and you'll see what I mean. Kuyt was substandard again, he can't even do the basics, yet he's always trying the complex, and please, no more YouTube clips of last season, that's gone.

The first half, well there's nothing of note to post about, lots of possession, passed it around a lot, did f**k all with it, Birmingham were happy that we posed no real threat, we were playing into their hands.

Second half, what changed the complexion? Steven Gerrard did. That goal in the 47th minute changed everything. A brilliantly taken goal by Gerrard and an excellent pass from Johnson  . Birmingham's game plan went out of the window, they had no choice but to come out and attack us. We started attacking the right flank with some purpose, Johnson coming into the game more. Then Birmingham struck, how the f**k McFadden got that cross in I'll never know. He was surrounded by Kyrgiakos, Insua and Yossi, this in turn drew Johnson into the middle, Carragher was drawn over too and Maxi should have picked up Ridgewell, or at least warned Johnson of his presence. The game opened up from here, and this is why I found the Torres substitution all the more bewildering. In all fairness to Torres, he was marked out of the game by 2 men, Johnson and Dan, an aspect we should have utilised to our advantage by involving Kuyt more, we didn't though. And when we did, he just did his usual dilly dally bollocks and killed the pace and fluidity. A great example of this when Lucas played a forward pass!, yes that's right, through to Kuyt and he just watched it go past him!. This pass just happened before the turning point of the game for me.

And after watching this calamitous play, and with Torres getting a bit more space due to the change in focus from Birmingham, Rafa takes Torres off in the 64th minute! Now if it had still been 0-0 at this point and we were going nowhere, then I'd have advocated the decision. The fact that Birmingham opened up more after their equaliser was indicative of the probability that they were confident of getting another goal and would play into our hands. And that's what did happen. Their tails were up and we exposed this.

Shortly after coming on, Johnson put in a brilliant cross for NGog and he should have least got the header on target, he didn't. Would Torres have scored it? We'll never know, but he is a much better aerial exponent than NGog is. Directly from this play Birmingham should have scored, Bowyer missed a sitter, a poor clearance from Insua, who had come across to cover Johnson after the NGog chance. Then Kuyt had a simple header back across goal to Maxi or NGog, he tried to score with his head instead. Then Rafa took Yossi off for Babel on 70 minutes. Yossi is a good player, I like him, but only in the middle of the pitch he is effective for us. Time after time he kept coming inside, just following his instinct, but forced to go against that instinct by poor team selection. On 72 minutes, another glorious chance for NGog, he put it wide, was it too much to expect him to put it on target?

We were now in the ascendency, Birmingham's back four were tired, an afternoon of virtual containment football was tiring them out. We had fresh legs out there, we should have finished them off. Babel made another break throught the middle, laid it off to NGog and ran on, NGog fu**ed the return up. Babel was coming into the game even more, another break down the left, gave it to Kuyt, Kuyt tried to do a girly little backflick, ended up standing on the ball and giving it to Dan and set up a counter attack for Birmingham, when all he had to do was a simple sidefoot back to Babel. Rafa then saw sense and too Kuyt off after 80 minutes of sh*te! Again, our supposed saviour gets 10 minutes to try and change the game, excellent idea! Babel again, broke down the left and put NGog in to cross to Maxi, who again should have scored, but hit it straight at Aquilani! There was a 2 foot gap to aim at, Hart was in no man's land.

The last five minutes were frantic. Gerrard urging us on, getting frustrated with the lack of movement around him. NGog getting a great chance to put Aquilani in but putting it behind him, Gerrard almost putting it in the top corner, then Maxi should have hit the target but blazed it over. Babel had another great chance, but put it in the side netting from a tight angle. Then came the golden chance, probably the pass of the season from Gerrard, NGog pulled it down brilliantly and then hit it f**king straight at Joe Hart! Now I know we can't say what might have happened had Torres been on the pitch, but the glaring mistake is this, he WASN'T.

I feel Rafa should have gone with Babel up top with Torres from the off, this would have taken the focus off Torres slightly as Babel's pace would also have worried Dan and Johnson. Kuyt has no pace, so barring an aerial threat, Kuyt was basically impotent.

I'm going to make a few comments here now, and I expect a few neg's in all honesty, and the usual posse of forumites who usually gather round posters who go against the grain, systematically victimising people who dare speak out against Rafa. I'll probably get a ban too, but f**k it.

Rafa has spent over £230 million since his arrival in 2004. Never mind the f**king net spend bollocks, never mind the owners, never mind the buy to sell. He has spent £230 million, regardless of how much he has recouped, he has spent that money. Over 75 signings in five years, that's roughly fifteen players a season. He chose to buy quantity over quality, he weighed up the options, and he made the choice. Nobody else did, Rafa did. Considering that the owners have pulled the purse strings in the last 2-3 seasons then that just highlights how wrong he got it the seasons before. From 75 players, you'd expect him to be able to field a pretty strong 25 man squad, that's excluding the current squad. Gerrard and Carra were already here. Roughly 75 players have come and gone.

His persistence this season with Lucas this season has cost us many games, we can bleat all we like about bad luck etc. Other teams have had bad luck too. Dirk Kuyt has been w*nk, we have Pacheco chomping at the bit, yet it is now a possibility that he may go on loan to Celtic! Kuyt may give his all, but his technical ability this season has been akin to Lucas'. What's different this season to last? Our defence has been completely altered and our central midfield unit is imbalanced, too much defence and nowhere near enough offence. Am I alone in seeing this? Am I the only one who thinks that Lucas isn't fit to wear the shirt? Am I the only one that cringes when I see Kuyt fail to control the ball again and again and again.

This may not sound like the statement of a man that supports Rafa, but I assure you it is. I love Rafa, I love that he loves this club, I feel for him when things go wrong, I respect him for sticking with us when he could so easily just f**k off to Madrid and build his own dynasty. My problem is this, he is making it harder for himself with every game that passes, we are expecting change, we are not seeing change. His refusal to play youngsters, why not give Kelly a shot at left back?, I know he's a right back, but what's to lose. Insua is out on his feet, he's only getting this run due to the injuries of Aurelio. Put Kelly right back and Johnson or Carra to left back. Drop Kuyt, pick Pacheco. Give Yossi a crack in the middle. Give Babel a try up top with Torres if you want to play a 4-4-2. Just try something different.

There's an old saying. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And if it's broke?........................ ........................ ........................ ...

What do you do if it's broke Rafa?........................ .. Pray tell.

 

Nice Effort.

(Clear throat)

Put it blandly from the hands (typing) of a newbie who doesn't bother about being politically correct.

Kuyt is sh*te, and why Rafa so persistence on playing him week in week out, perhaps only God and Rafa knows, infact I think the later doesn't even know why.

This is not the first time, we know he's not good enough technically to built any decent attack and more often he's slowing any counter attack we have. And if containment is the game plan, I can't believe Kuyt brings anything positive, we have 2 DM to do the containment job, should we add a Defensive Striker in the mix?

So... I guess we all know what the problem is : Kuyt and Lucas... mind y ou we play better , much better without them. The question is : Does Rafa sees this? I think he does. Why does Rafa persist with this? I wish I knew

Have to say another great post by hardcore.

Our right back did not cost us the game, Maxi failed to pick up Ridgewell. When the ball is on the other side full backs are expected to come in and cover and the wide midfielder is expected to come back.

 In fact Johnson was one of our better players. Gerrard did his job in midfield and I gave him my man of the match Lucas on the other hand was non existant again and gave F**k all to the team.

hardcoresoldier, i completely agree with about 99% of what you're saying. your analysis of the game was spot on. lucas is not a player who should be starting regularly for lfc. kuyt is breaking down attack after attack. not good enough. if i don't perform at work, i get taken off important tasks. footballers should be the same.

one thing you haven't specified is wether you want rafa out or not. i think you (and any other supporter) are within you rights to criticise players and managers with intelligent analysis. this is what makes lfc supporters more cultured then the rest.

still, would you want rafa out after one bad season? do you not think he is still the right man to take us forward?

it feels like some people (i'm not saying you personally) want rafa out for the sake of change. just like people want labour out for the sake of change even though the biggest crisis to hit in decades was unavoidable globally. but what is the alternative? f***ing tories.

what is the alternative for lfc? no one better than rafa i'm afraid.

The 'Dunning Kruger" effect


'In other words, ignorant and incompetent people are not only unable to recognise true skill in others, they also have an inflated idea of their own ability - because they have no way of knowing that they don't know better!"

Could this be the explanation as to why Rafa is under the illusion that Lucas & Kuyt are undroppable ?

maybe he is suffering from the dunning-kruger effect!

Excellent post Hardcore. I could have written it myself, if I'd have been erudite enough. Only thing I disagree with is your last paragraph, but then that's a personal opinion.

Rafa sold our best left back ( Warnock ) and replaced him with crock Fabio and end up with a headless chicken  Insua

hardcoresoldier, I completely agree with about 99% of what you're saying. your analysis of the game was spot on. lucas is not a player who should be starting regularly for lfc. kuyt is breaking down attack after attack. not good enough. if I don't perform at work, I get taken off important tasks. footballers should be the same.

one thing you haven't specified is wether you want rafa out or not. I think you (and any other supporter) are within you rights to criticise players and managers with intelligent analysis. this is what makes lfc supporters more cultured then the rest.

still, would you want rafa out after one bad season? do you not think he is still the right man to take us forward?

it feels like some people (I'm not saying you personally) want rafa out for the sake of change. just like people want labour out for the sake of change even though the biggest crisis to hit in decades was unavoidable globally. but what is the alternative? f***ing tories.

what is the alternative for lfc? no one better than rafa I'm afraid.

No mate, i do not want Rafa out. I want Rafa to change things, shake it up. He deserves another chance next season to put things right, and i love Rafa to bits, but he can be so stubborn that i think his stubborness could well lead to his downfall. His tactical nous is one of his greatest attributes, yet it has let him down this season, that cannot be argued.

My post yesterday was purely footballing, Rafa got the Torres substitution wrong. Lucas should not be playing regular first team football for Liverpool, he is nowhere near the required pedigree. Insua is getting raped, game after game after game. Yet Rafa persists with him. It's not as if he has an issue with playing players out of position, does he? Dirk Kuyt would have been dropped ages ago at any other club.

I will reiterate, i think that after all Rafa has done for the club, he deserves another season to put it right, i have a soft spot for Rafa, but i will not blame other people for his failings in managing the team this season. His tactics and substitutions have verged on the ridiculous this season.

And to Crouchinho, how many chances did Lucas create for our strikers yesterday? Watch the game again mate and use Lucas as your own personal player cam, he does absolutely nothing, hardly ever offers himself to others around him, and i'd go as far to say as he hides from responsibility. I really wish i could see him through your eyes mate, but through my eyes he is one of the worst midfielders i have ever seen play for the club. Lucas will never take this club forward, he is only taking us backwards with his inward mentality.

As for the game, Birmingham opened up after the Gerrard goal, gaps started to appear, and we took off the one striker who can win a game in a split second of breathtaking genius. There was only one striker who should have been taken off, Dirk Kuyt.

While you're at it, tell me how many times Lucas played an integral part in any creative movement that led to a goal scoring chance on Sunday?

Detailed recount, but if our fullbacks knew the fundamentals of defending this post would be thrown out the window.

Midfield didn't cost us the game, our striker and our right back did.

Note this post has not defended Lucas which someone will undoubtedly be thinking before they read this sentence.

Our midfield did its job in creating the chances for our striker, and it covered our defence when we didn't have the ball. Insua didn't cover/block his man when the ball came in and Johnson failed to pick his up. Ngog had 3 chances to win it and didn't.

Throw my post out of the window if you so wish Crouchinho. It was an unbiased assessment of a game that we had to win, Rafa made many mistakes in his team selection. The exclusion of Mascherano and Agger, the inclusion of Lucas and Kuyt. The selection of Insua. Playing Yossi on the left. Taking Torres off when the game started to open up, and leaving Kuyt on the field in the process!

While you're at it, tell me how many times Lucas played an integral part in any creative movement that led to a goal scoring chance on Sunday?

f**ker thats a big ask mate, he'll be lucky if he's even managed that twice this season

Note this post has not defended Lucas which someone will undoubtedly be thinking before they read this sentence.

No doubt, because you'd never defend one of the worst midfielders ever to grace Liverpool F.C so vehemently would you.

F**ker thats a big ask mate, he'll be lucky if he's even managed that twice this season

I really cannot understand how anyone can stick up for Lucas, he is 100% pure sh*te mate. I have really tried to look at him in a positive light, but nothing about him gives me the impression that he is good enough to play for Liverpool. He's been here long enough, and he's still sh*te. Barring fifteen minutes of the Lille game, he's done F**k all. What the F**k does Rafa see that we don't?

I really cannot understand how anyone can stick up for Lucas, he is 100% pure sh*te mate. I have really tried to look at him in a positive light, but nothing about him gives me the impression that he is good enough to play for Liverpool. He's been here long enough, and he's still sh*te. Barring fifteen minutes of the Lille game, he's done F**k all. What the F**k does Rafa see that we don't?

No idea mate, but In 25 years of watching Liverpool F.C this season I really think I have witnessed the most unproductive midfield thats ever graced the Anfield turf and that includes Souness's reign.

To be honest I find the defense of the player based more on sympathy than anything else, it tells its own story in any given match that our defense would rather hoof the ball up field than to give it to Lucas as they just know by default it's coming straight back to them.

I've lost count of how many times I've seen Carra rollocking him on the pitch for doing it too, The Lucas & Mascherano pairing for me has been our biggest downfall this season on the pitch above everything else.

Rafa for me has to take full responsibility for that as the pairing was failing from the first game of the season, yet he's persisited with it by far and large all season long when he's had Gerrard available who could have more than made up for the loss of Alonso.

I find you two hilarious.

I didnt mention Lucas. Therefore didn't 'defend one of the worst midfielders ever to grace Liverpool F.C so vehemently'.

Our right back (Johnson) was caught in no man's land and the lads missed 6 clear chances.

No idea mate, but In 25 years of watching Liverpool F.C this season I really think I have witnessed the most unproductive midfield thats ever graced the Anfield turf and that includes Souness's reign.

To be honest I find the defense of the player based more on sympathy than anything else, it tells its own story in any given match that our defense would rather hoof the ball up field than to give it to Lucas as they just know by default it's coming straight back to them.

I've lost count of how many times I've seen Carra rollocking him on the pitch for doing it too, The Lucas & Mascherano pairing for me has been our biggest downfall this season on the pitch above everything else.

Rafa for me has to take full responsibility for that as the pairing was failing from the first game of the season, yet he's persisited with it by far and large all season long when he's had Gerrard available who could have more than made up for the loss of Alonso.

Eh?

I posted the same thing of two DM's and i was accused of posting sh*t

No idea mate, but In 25 years of watching Liverpool F.C this season I really think I have witnessed the most unproductive midfield thats ever graced the Anfield turf and that includes Souness's reign.

To be honest I find the defense of the player based more on sympathy than anything else, it tells its own story in any given match that our defense would rather hoof the ball up field than to give it to Lucas as they just know by default it's coming straight back to them.

I've lost count of how many times I've seen Carra rollocking him on the pitch for doing it too, The Lucas & Mascherano pairing for me has been our biggest downfall this season on the pitch above everything else.

Rafa for me has to take full responsibility for that as the pairing was failing from the first game of the season, yet he's persisited with it by far and large all season long when he's had Gerrard available who could have more than made up for the loss of Alonso.

This pretty much sums it up for me, i was slated for critisizing the players...we apparently have the best squad in years....totally blind that we are playing utter cr@p.

Lucas is awful, always will be, bland, no skill, no defensive qualities, johnson is a really good attcking player but to be honest id prefer a better defensive right back, he would be excellent for a better playing team but when we play bad it exposes his defensive issues.
Im sick of hearing we must win all our remaining games, and then the excuses appear again, we are consistently not performing and i still feel a change of personel would be the solution.

No Crouch he came inside that is what a full back does when the ball is on the other side it is up to the wide man to come back and mark the full back who has got forward. Will you explain to me how Johnson was meant to mark Birminghams wide man and full back.

You are way to quick to blame Johnson who is a very good player and way to quick to defend Lucas the most average limited centre midfielder ever to be a regular at the club.

I find you two hilarious.

I didnt mention Lucas. Therefore didn't 'defend one of the worst midfielders ever to grace Liverpool F.C so vehemently'.

Our right back (Johnson) was caught in no man's land and the lads missed 6 clear chances.

Pmsl I was taking the piss Crouchy lad, calm down don't bite every time I dangle a line

I don't need to defend my stance on what I think of Lucas mate, he's not fit to lick Alonso's boots, Alonso was world Class, Lucas isn't and for me, it's like replacing a front wing on a car, a genuine dealer part fits perfectly, where as a pattened part is of inferior quality, never fits perfectly, take massive amounts of adjustment and just about does the job, although your never really happy with it.

That sums Lucas's Anfield career up for me.

No mate, i do not want Rafa out. I want Rafa to change things, shake it up. He deserves another chance next season to put things right, and i love Rafa to bits, but he can be so stubborn that i think his stubborness could well lead to his downfall. His tactical nous is one of his greatest attributes, yet it has let him down this season, that cannot be argued.

My post yesterday was purely footballing, Rafa got the Torres substitution wrong. Lucas should not be playing regular first team football for Liverpool, he is nowhere near the required pedigree. Insua is getting raped, game after game after game. Yet Rafa persists with him. It's not as if he has an issue with playing players out of position, does he? Dirk Kuyt would have been dropped ages ago at any other club.

I will reiterate, i think that after all Rafa has done for the club, he deserves another season to put it right, i have a soft spot for Rafa, but i will not blame other people for his failings in managing the team this season. His tactics and substitutions have verged on the ridiculous this season.

And to Crouchinho, how many chances did Lucas create for our strikers yesterday? Watch the game again mate and use Lucas as your own personal player cam, he does absolutely nothing, hardly ever offers himself to others around him, and i'd go as far to say as he hides from responsibility. I really wish i could see him through your eyes mate, but through my eyes he is one of the worst midfielders i have ever seen play for the club. Lucas will never take this club forward, he is only taking us backwards with his inward mentality.

As for the game, Birmingham opened up after the Gerrard goal, gaps started to appear, and we took off the one striker who can win a game in a split second of breathtaking genius. There was only one striker who should have been taken off, Dirk Kuyt.

While you're at it, tell me how many times Lucas played an integral part in any creative movement that led to a goal scoring chance on Sunday?

First off, a really good post.

Your first three paragraphs sum up how I feel about Rafa, though I won't comment too much on that since it isn't really about the match. I had considered expanding on it a bit in the "Is Rafa the Right Man" thread, then figured it would quickly be submerged by another 5 or 6 pages of "yes he is!", "no he F***ing isn't!" debate, so didn't bother.

Anyway, I also agree with your criticism of Lucas. I remember a few occassions in the match where he would give a short pass, then make a very half hearted run for a few yards, without any real intention to get into a goos position. It irritated me enormously, because he looked like he didn't want the ball back, but didn't even do enough for one of their midfielders to pick him up and open up a little space in the packed midfield.

He proved again for me that he should be on the bench as cover for injuries or fatigue, not starting regularly. Not making many mistakes isn't a good enough reason to be picked for me, he needs to make more direct contributions to our gameplay.

Finally, the last point about Kuyt is right for me as well. People have said N'Gog got into enough positions to justify his appearance, others said he is a mere shadow of a player compared to Torres. But had he come on for Kuyt, we could have had both.

Rafa really needs to throw caution to the wind now and know when to go all-out for the three points, Kuyt was more likely to ensure us one point and a draw.

No mate, I do not want Rafa out. I want Rafa to change things, shake it up. He deserves another chance next season to put things right, and I love Rafa to bits, but he can be so stubborn that I think his stubborness could well lead to his downfall. His

fair point fella, i would agree with that. man deserves chance and some of his decisions have been beyond bizarre this season.

man talking sense...not knee jerk reaction

fair point fella, I would agree with that. man deserves chance and some of his decisions have been beyond bizarre this season.

man talking sense...not knee jerk reaction

I don't do knee jerk reactions mate. If someone comes on here and vents their frustration at bad managerial decisions, then it really doesn't bother me. I mainly try to post on here from a purely footballing perspective when possible. I watched the Birmingham game twice, as the first time i saw it was on the internet stream and the picture was sh*t. After watching the game on LFC TV i felt i could give a proper account of what i'd seen, and more importantly, what went wrong.

Rafa made mistakes from a managerial perspective on Sunday. It had nothing to do with the owners, it had nothing to do with the lack of funds and it had nothing to do with the sell to buy policy either. I know we're in the sh*t at the moment, but what happens on the pitch is down to Rafa. He selects the players and the system. A lot of people will say that it's down to the players once they're on the pitch, and they are right. But if the players are not applying themselves to the task then it is Rafa's job to drop them, have a word, or F**k them off and get someone else in.

On paper, Birmingham shouldn't be able to live with us, but if Bowyer had put that chance away at 1-1, then the outcome could have been very different. It is Rafa's fault that he keeps picking Lucas, Kuyt and Insua. He makes these decisions and ultimately, he will be judged by them. I just wish he'd unleash the animal more often.

This season has been a write off. Hopefully we'll win the Europa League and qualify for the Champions League. And hopefully Rafa will be given the chance to rectify this situation next season. We may have new owners, new investment and new ideas, i just pray that Rafa survives the cull and gets the chance to atone for the errors of his ways this season.

IRWT

We are coming to the end of the season and we still get to see Lucas, Kuyt and Insua on the field churning out those unproductive display. I'm not sure we're gonna see anything new next season if these players are still around and that Rafa persists to play them week in week out.

Not just Lucas, Kuyt, Insua.

Why did we not win against Birmingham?  What we're the crucial moments?

David N'gog, Rodriguez, Gerrard and Babel missing certain chances to score.

And a calamatous bit of defending that saw Birmingham score.

We can Lucas, Kuyt, Insua all day long - and all of them are replaceable - but that Birmingham game we didn't win for the above reasons.