Lucas Leiva (Liverpool > S.S. Lazio)

I agree with both your points mate.

In defence of Gerrard if he is setting up chances and others aren't taking them ... it is hardly his fault? He has created 26 chances in the league only one of which has been taken. Is that Gerrard's fault or maybe the fact that Sturridge and Suarez aren't playing?

I guess it depends on the quality of the chances which is hard to measure using statistics, i can't remember too many obvious goal scoring chances created from Gerrard. You are right that Suarez and Sturridge would have converted more of those chances, but unfortunately neither of those two are available.

I would like to see Lucas start in his favoured position in the PL though, because we cannot be much worse defensively.

Chances created is such a soft measure and in my view a load of rubbish.
From your stats just from Gerrard and Sterling alone we have created 54 scoring chances.
Have we F**k......

Chances created is such a soft measure and in my view a load of rubbish.
From your stats just from Gerrard and Sterling alone we have created 54 scoring chances.
Have we f**k......

54 chances is only 4.5 chances a game ... if we haven't then there is not a lot of hope for us.

54 chances is only 4.5 chances a game ... if we haven't then there is not a lot of hope for us.

Add in all the other players and what the total goes up to 8,9 maybe 10..... No chance of that this season unless that stat takes into account every corner, free kick, oh hang on I'm sure it does.........

Like I said a meaningless stat.

Add in all the other players and what the total goes up to 8,9 maybe 10..... No chance of that this season unless that stat takes into account every corner, free kick, oh hang on I'm sure it does.........

Like I said a meaningless stat.

Not sure you know what is rated as a chance

Not sure you know what is rated as a chance

No obviously not I rate a scoring chance as a effort on goal not a corner taken or a free kick from our half into the opposition box.

Does a back pass by the opposition also count as a chance?

No obviously not I rate a scoring chance as a effort on goal not a corner taken or a free kick from our half into the opposition box.

Does a back pass by the opposition also count as a chance?

So you have managed to look it up now? Now simply take all the shots and headers that we have had at goal this season (around 178) and that is the number of chances. Is that clear enough for you or do you want to keep acting like a pr**k.

So you have managed to look it up now? Now simply take all the shots and headers that we have had at goal this season (around 178) and that is the number of chances. Is that clear enough for you or do you want to keep acting like a pr**k.

Nope not looked anything up, so your saying any shot or header at goal. No wonder he's up there with 26 with so many ending up in the top tier of the stands.

Only one person acting like a pr**k who can't accept that Lucas may have had a better game in the DM role than Gerrard and when presented with the facts comes up with some inane chances created BS.

Stop the fan boy stuff you sound like your too old for it.

Nope not looked anything up, so your saying any shot or header at goal. No wonder he's up there with 26 with so many ending up in the top tier of the stands.

Only one person acting like a pr**k who can't accept that Lucas may have had a better game in the DM role than Gerrard and when presented with the facts comes up with some inane chances created BS.

Stop the fan boy stuff you sound like your too old for it.

So you understood what a chance was when you said this  :-

From your stats just from Gerrard and Sterling alone we have created 54 scoring chances.
Have we f**k......

 

Fabregas has created 38 chances and has 10 assists which shows the difference having people around him that can actually score.

Gerrard has had to try to create chances for players who couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo this season.

I don't deny I am a fan boy of Gerrard, he is a great player, Liverpool Captain and one of the best players I have ever seen.... Lucas is not.

Come back and we will talk more once Lucas has created 26 chances. 

Lucas is a better DM than Stevie 100%. The role of 'quarterback' that Stevie is in isn't a DM anyway,; it also doesn't work. Pirlo can do it because of the tactical nous he and his team possess. When Stevie plays there the midfield seesm to collapse on the back four, with the inevitable long ball making an appearance. Maybe why we are so crap now (although sturridge and suarez missing is a big part too). When Stevie was great he could change the game on his own, that was his legend. He cannot do that now but is treated with the same aura it is ridiculous. Fantastic career, still can contribute but how do you separate the legend from the player we have now? Very difficult, BR maybe trying to be too clever or avoiding the inevitable. I'm afraid a lot of the problems stem from Stevie and the way he's being handled.

Get Lucas in and keep him in.

So you understood what a chance was when you said this  :-

 

Fabregas has created 38 chances and has 10 assists which shows the difference having people around him that can actually score.

Gerrard has had to try to create chances for players who couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo this season.

I don't deny I am a fan boy of Gerrard, he is a great player, Liverpool Captain and one of the best players I have ever seen.... Lucas is not.

Come back and we will talk more once Lucas has created 26 chances. 

Carry on living in the past mate the new Liverpool way - sentimentality.

Lucas is a better DM than Stevie 100%. The role of 'quarterback' that Stevie is in isn't a DM anyway,; it also doesn't work. Pirlo can do it because of the tactical nous he and his team possess. When Stevie plays there the midfield seesm to collapse on the back four, with the inevitable long ball making an appearance. Maybe why we are so crap now (although sturridge and suarez missing is a big part too). When Stevie was great he could change the game on his own, that was his legend. He cannot do that now but is treated with the same aura it is ridiculous. Fantastic career, still can contribute but how do you separate the legend from the player we have now? Very difficult, BR maybe trying to be too clever or avoiding the inevitable. I'm afraid a lot of the problems stem from Stevie and the way he's being handled.

Get Lucas in and keep him in.

It seemed to work well enough last season mate. Gerrard had the highest assists in the prem and we finished second. The only difference this season is we don't have the right players up front at the moment. Return of Sturridge will hopefully see a resurgence by Gerrard too.

As I have posted before we got 39 points in 20 games with Lucas playing DM, we got 45 points in 18 games with Gerrard playing the playmaker role.

Return of Sturridge will hopefully see a resurgence by Gerrard too.

Trouble is, we have another 10 games before his return and we have already lost and drawn to two teams we should easily be beating since he was ruled out again. By his return it could easily be too late to make our season anything remotely worthwhile.

Trouble is, we have another 10 games before his return and we have already lost and drawn to two teams we should easily be beating since he was ruled out again. By his return it could easily be too late to make our season anything remotely worthwhile.

I agree mate, but I don't think using Gerrard as a scapegoat is a solution to our problems. I think short term we have to accept we aren't going to score as freely, tighten up at the back and continue to play Gerrard off the striker in the hope he can form an interim partnership with one of them.

At the moment we are just about hanging on in there for a chance at 4th place but whether we can hang on till Sturridge is back is another story.

I think things may well get worse before they get better. 

I agree mate, but I don't think using Gerrard as a scapegoat is a solution to our problems. I think short term we have to accept we aren't going to score as freely, tighten up at the back and continue to play Gerrard off the striker in the hope he can form an interim partnership with one of them.

At the moment we are just about hanging on in there for a chance at 4th place but whether we can hang on till Sturridge is back is another story.

I think things may well get worse before they get better. 

I quite agree mate.

It seemed to work well enough last season mate. Gerrard had the highest assists in the prem and we finished second.

Saint I totally agree. However one season Maradona could beat the whole defence on his own; that disappears. We had Suarez last year and Sturridge. I think it is a bridge too far given so much has changed. NO way is his position the total reason for we are going through, I just believe it is something that isn't working now and if it isn't working then the manager should change it  I believe Gerrard would be better played further forward anyway. He is my all time favourite LFC player by the way (just shades Barnes and Alonso for me)

Saint I totally agree. However one season Maradona could beat the whole defence on his own; that disappears. We had Suarez last year and Sturridge. I think it is a bridge too far given so much has changed. NO way is his position the total reason for we are going through, I just believe it is something that isn't working now and if it isn't working then the manager should change it  I believe Gerrard would be better played further forward anyway. He is my all time favourite LFC player by the way (just shades Barnes and Alonso for me)

I agree mate, I think moving Gerrard forward is for the best and like most have thought it for a while.

Dont think the debate should be about who´s better. Gerrard and Lucas are players with totally different skillset. Almost. At the start of last season, Lucas used his strong points enabling Gerrard to dictate the play to some extend, even though as a partnership they lacked a bit of aggresion, speed and stamina. It was still good enough to get us results - those bast@rd narrow wins.

Now we struggle to play a solid organized game for Lucas to shine in, and we´re far away from Gerrard feeding runners (or headers from set-pieces) to spearhead our attacking play. Brendan is going to keep Leiva in the side for a while to make us more compant. Only to release Gerrard when we´re in full flow without the need for defensive midfielder altogeter. Like in the second half of last season.

Will take time, but we will get there eventually. With Markovič, Lallana, Coutinho, Sterling, Sturridge making crazy moves in front of Gerrard, our captain will come good. Now its Lucas´ turn to make us stable. He wont dissapoint. He hasnt put a wrong foot this season. There´s a poster in here giving credit Pezzini only for his performance at Madrid and ?, saying he was poor in the domestic cups.

OK. I hate stats (there is so much more and subtle going on when judgin Lucas´ game). But here´s a food for though.
Lucas vs Middlesbrough: tackles 8, interceptions 4, winning headers 13, possesion 93%, key passes 3, pelanty 2/2. Quiet usefull I think.

Think its time we sell the man, he's been a true red but now with Can in the mix and Allen i dont see BR picking him that much apart from cup games, he's not started that many this seaon and now CAN is fit he will start even less i reckon.

we should try and move him on in Jan to try and get some more cash in the transfer kitty as i dont imagine FSG will be splashing it in Jan

if we don't get a replacement it will be a big mistake selling him, allen is piss poor and if henderson or gerrard (who is past his best) get injured we're fu**ed

Think it would be a big mistake to ship Lucas out in January, it is obvious we need cover, with such a fragile back four.

Well done Lucas

He was a real star yesterday and nearly scored, hope he keeps his place on Tuesday.