Early Liverpool formations question.

I'm not suggesting that anyone on here is old enough to remember this... But if you are kudos for being able to use the Internet. 

I've been reading more about the early history of the club that I don't know much about for the main reason of having new material regarding the club than the same things over and over.

Below is the formation for the league winning side of 1900-01

                                     Perkins

                         Robertson (J)   Dunlop

             Wilson             Raisbeck          Goldie

Cox   Walker    Raybould     Satterthwaite   Robertson (T)


"In the favoured formation of 2-3-5"

Question is though for anyone who may know or have an idea how did it work? Raisbeck being the star of the side is described as what we would now understand a box to box type, breaking up attacks and helping the defence and bombing forward to help the strikers..
The writers don't go into that much details of tactics more just snippets of press comments on the matches.. At times it just sounds like a scrum.

How can 2-3-5 work? For most sides to adopt it you would expect 10-10 in games but there weren't.

Anyone at all have an understanding of it?


 

Absolutely no idea how that would have worked! I can only assume that this shappe would have applied when in possession of the ball and that the shape would inevitably have to change when the oppo had the ball. Be fun to see it in action!

I see a similar formation all the time.....






When I take my son football training, and I dont think I'd like to see Liverpool adopt that way of playing

As i recall the positions where
1 Goal keeper
2 Right back
3 Left back
4 Right half
5 Centre half
6 Left half
7 Right wing
8 Inside Right
9 Centre forward
10 Inside left
11 left wing.
So ~I think it was a combo of 3-4-3 ,5-3-2

You would think that would make more sense Walton.. The two wide players of the front 5 would be further back playing up and down the flanks.

Just confused as he states in the book it's a 2-3-5 formation and the set up is shown as I've put it above, it just doesn't sound like it could ever work as that set up though.

2-3-5 was the standard formation in the early 20th century, most teams played that way

Al fart time...

It was Alf Ramsey who started to use 4-4-2 and that is credited to him in English football.


This is like speaking from another world. Spooky !


The full backs used to mark and cover the wingers so you had RB 2  covering LW 11.
RB 3 would mark and take on their RW number 7.
Full backs were real men like Gerry Byrne who played through the 65 Cup Final at Left Back 3  with a broken collar bone from the 3rd minute on!
Its was kept from the Leeds players who didnt know. No subs allowed then.

Of the Full Backs we have had at the club to me the greatest servant was Chris Lawler.

There were never Full Backs flying to the oppositions goal line ie Roberto Carlos style.
Most full backs never ventured that much over the halfway line. Some did some didnt


Still with me?


Next three were the half backs.

The RH 4 took on their IL (Inside Left 10) and marked him.
The LH 6 took on their number 8 who was their inside right.

The Centre Half 5 was usually built like a brick sh*t house and thats why Shanks got people to walk round Ron Yeats.
The CH job was to nail their No 9 who were usually similarly built like our Andy Carroll.

When the goaly kicked clear up the pitch ......the rest of the players stood in awe .......as the clash of heads between 5 ans 9 reverberated round the ground... thats if no one got brain damage.
The old case balls when wet were like heading a concrete block. Ankle breakers when a dead ball!


The Half Backs joined in and supported the attacks and were regarded as "The Midfield"
When the opposition had the ball they joined the full backs in defence


The Forwards.

7 and 11 were wingers. They ran up and down the touchlines or cut in.
Cally and Thommo were our famous pair.
Watching them from the Kop both of them flying towards us... Cally on the right and Thommo on the left was simply awesome.
Peter Thompson could weave past players Suarez style.
Ian Callaghan a great servant to the club. 640 appearances. The current Club Record.

Our number 9s stayed in the middle being supported on the right by number 8 the inside right a
and to his left the inside left such as Toshack.

Ian St John.  / Bobby Graham / Jimmy Case / Roger Hunt and the list goes on. Great players.

So 5 attackers  3 defenders and 3 in betweens !






Can we go now?
Wheres me zimmer ? 
Dinner is being served at The Home.

I'm not suggesting that anyone on here is old enough to remember this... But if you are kudos for being able to use the Internet. 

I've been reading more about the early history of the club that I don't know much about for the main reason of having new material regarding the club than the same things over and over.

Below is the formation for the league winning side of 1900-01

                                     Perkins

                         Robertson (J)   Dunlop

             Wilson             Raisbeck          Goldie

Cox   Walker    Raybould     Satterthwaite   Robertson (T)


"In the favoured formation of 2-3-5"

Question is though for anyone who may know or have an idea how did it work? Raisbeck being the star of the side is described as what we would now understand a box to box type, breaking up attacks and helping the defence and bombing forward to help the strikers..
The writers don't go into that much details of tactics more just snippets of press comments on the matches.. At times it just sounds like a scrum.

How can 2-3-5 work? For most sides to adopt it you would expect 10-10 in games but there weren't.

Anyone at all have an understanding of it?


 

You do not have to go back as far to the 1900s for that formation,it was standard for all clubs till the early 1960s.The team had 2 solid full backs usually big beefy lads(Ray Lambert for example)then there was the 3 half backs,the centre half was usually a stopper and right half and left half,One of the half backs was usually a terrier9Bob Paisley for example) and the other half back Phil Taylor/Bill Jones was the provider to the forwards.The 2 wingers were the 2 original wide men and the old fashioned center forward went were no man would dare  and mixed it up in the penalty area,the 2 inside forwards were there to score goals as well (Jack Balmer for example)I think the man who got the most credits for changing what used to be the orthodox team formation was Don Revie of Leeds in the 1960,the press actually called it the Rvie plan.Another thing to bear in mind is because of the rule changes in football  the game has changed ,another example a goalie was fair game for the likes of Albert Stubbins ,Nat Lofthouse etcetera,they for would be sent off today for going near the goalie.Hope this is not too long winded and you can understand my explanation,cheers.

Cheers for the run down eurored. Ive read it 5 times now and need a lie down but it makes sense..

What suprises me were the amount of death's during the games during the late 1800's early 1900's, and not just amateur level.. Frightening but fansinating reading about how it all started.

Cheers for the run down eurored. Ive read it 5 times now and need a lie down but it makes sense..

We learned and played the formation (which was played almost every where) right through school PD and beyond - with great success. The 2-3-5 would look more like this:                                 
                                       Perkins

  Robertson (J)                                                  Dunlop     = Full-backs
                         Wilson     Raisbeck    Goldie                     = Half-backs                                                 

                  Walker                                Satterthwaite       = Inside Forwards
Cox                                                                    Robertson (T) = Wingers
                                       Raybould                                = Centre forward

Imagine, when we have the ball, Wilson and Goldie pushing up, Cox & Robertson staying wide and Walker & Satterthwaite  supporting Raybould. When defending, Wilson & Goldie would pick up the oppo's Inside forwards, Raisbeck, the centre forward, Robertson & Dunlop the oppo's wingers and Walker & Satterthwaite would track the oppo's half-backs.

Simple but very effective. 

I'm loving it, lets try it against Bolton, after all our record against the lowly side have hardly been brilliant,so what have we go to lose, first ten minutes normal formation then do the 2-3-5, see how we fare, if it seemsto be working stick with it, we're either gonna be losing or maybe 3 up, go no Kenny, give it a whirl  and go with this;

                                             Reina
                                      Carra     Skirtle
                          Johnson       Adam      Enrique
                   Bellers    Hendo    Gerrard    Shelvey   Maxi

Bench;  Doni, Coates, Spearing, Downing, Kuyt, Carroll, Kelly

     IKWT      YNWA

Between the 3 of you, you have explained it better than the book, thanks lads. I can continue into 1910 - now.

                                             Reina


                                            Agger
Johnson                                                                           Enrique
                     Adam                            Henderson


Downing               Gerrard                 Suarez                               Bellamy

                                      Carrol

This is how i would see it from the positions I knew form the 60's/70's

                                             Reina


                                            Agger
Johnson                                                                           Enrique
                     Adam                            Henderson


Downing               Gerrard                 Suarez                               Bellamy

                                      Carrol

This is how i would see it from the positions I knew form the 60's/70's

Those were the days when all the players except the goalie could put the ball in the net,and Leeds  even had Gary Sprake who  threw the ball into his own net.Do you remember careless hands walton.

To the original post, can't give any better explanations than have already been given on formation but from what I've heard and read Raisbeck was more a centre half than box to box midfielder. An early version of Canavaro, small but won F***ing everything in the air.

Between the 3 of you, you have explained it better than the book, thanks lads. I can continue into 1910 - now.

You'll be onto the W-M formation in no time.

Thinking about it there was one Full Back who started the attacking trend but it wasn't one of ours.

Terry Cooper of  Leeds.

I went hunting for something on him about that ... and found this article.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2010/feb/17/terry-cooper-left-back-england

                                             Reina
                                         

                     Johnson                         Enrique
                     
             Adam                   Agger                  Henderson


Downing       Gerrard        Carroll            Suarez             Bellamy

                                     

This is how i would see it from the positions I knew form the 60's/70's

Moved Em  .   More like this for me Walton ......the original 5 - 3 - 2 Line up.

Thinking about it there was one Full Back who started the attacking trend but it wasn't one of ours.

Terry Cooper of  Leeds.

I went hunting for something on him about that ... and found this article.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2010/feb/17/terry-cooper-left-back-england

Skip what about Chris Lawler he made his debut in March 1963 and scored 41 goals in 406 games,not bad for a full back who did not take penalties.Was Cooper around before Lawler.

Lawler was a hero of mine and I mentioned him above.

The Quiet Man.

Cooper was with Leeds from 62 to 75    and scored just 7 goals in about half the games Lawler did.

Cooper was more a "provider" and a second winger  .....   a Jose Enrique or Glen Johnson of today.

How can 2-3-5 work?

Having no offside law probably helped.

Those were the days when all the players except the goalie could put the ball in the net,and Leeds  even had Gary Sprake who  threw the ball into his own net.Do you remember careless hands walton.

I also remember Gordon West with his handbag picking up coins.Guess what no one got arrested for throwing coins West picked them up and put them in his handbag.

Moved Em  .   More like this for me Walton ......the original 5 - 3 - 2 Line up.

The number 5 C/H had the two "halves" in front of him It wasn't really until we got to Later years that we had to have 2 centre havles. Ron Yeats didn't need any help.