Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread

Good post Vulcan.

As usual LFCATW doesn't have any logical basis for his argument - just an anti-Rafa bias.

On one hand Mourinho is a world-class manager but on the other Rafa isn't despite playing better football arriving halfway through the season with no say over transfers, a hostile crowd and without spending the tens of millions Mourinho did. Rafa finished 3rd with a shiny European trophy - and incidentally had most of the players praising him - unlike Mourinho who is hated by half the team and has got into various problems with the officials; not that that matters to me but LFCATW seems to set great store by it.

Clueless.

Rafa is one of the best and most underrated managers in the world... I thought we all knew this because we are Liverpool people who knew him first hand (not personally but you know what I mean).

Good post Vulcan.

As usual LFCATW doesn't have any logical basis for his argument - just an anti-Rafa bias.

On one hand Mourinho is a world-class manager but on the other Rafa isn't despite playing better football arriving halfway through the season with no say over transfers, a hostile crowd and without spending the tens of millions Mourinho did. Rafa finished 3rd with a shiny European trophy - and incidentally had most of the players praising him - unlike Mourinho who is hated by half the team and has got into various problems with the officials; not that that matters to me but LFCATW seems to set great store by it.

Clueless.

I can't work it out sometimes, there are Liverpool fans out there who are are so F***ing bitter and twisted towards Rafa, they'd be better of being Evertonians.

He gave us something that would of only have been topped by Brendan winning the league, yet some would prefer to lick Mourinho's cock instead of giving Rafa any praise at all.

I just don't get it, they say time heals and I would of thought LFCATW might of chilled by now, but he's still like a bluenose on Derby Day!

I can't work it out sometimes, there are Liverpool fans out there who are are so F***ing bitter and twisted towards Rafa, they'd be better of being Evertonians.

He gave us something that would of only have been topped by Brendan winning the league, yet some would prefer to lick Mourinho's cock instead of giving Rafa any praise at all.

I just don't get it, they say time heals and I would of thought LFCATW might of chilled by now, but he's still like a bluenose on Derby Day!

Don't mind hm.
The poor love obviously doesn't get enough attention at home, so when he needs some he strolls into the Rafa thread, safe in the knowledge that people will engage him and give him the attention he craves.

No - the problem is that he doesn't have a very deep understanding of anything. This is a guy who wrote that "scientists are paid to invent stuff."

Winning a league is about producing the best balanced team - one that has the best possible attack combined with the best possible defence. Every champion you can think of has had to ensure that keeping a tight defence was the first priority - Keegan's Newcastle and recent Arsenal teams have tried to prioritise attack and gone the other way.

The problem is that if you set up a defensive team first the danger is you won't be free-scoring enough - that's pretty obvious and the usual dicks in the media pointed out that we drew too many matches. LFCATW has seized on this briliant piece on insight and is convinced it's true. All we had to do was score more and be more attacking and we would have won the league (ignoring the fact we would have lost more too).

We made amazing progress this season - and its almost always the case you need to finish second in the league one year before you can win it the next. I still think that Rafa's side overall had a better balance than we did this season - if that team had been competing this year we would be champions in my opinion. Hopefully we can make further progress next year and take the final step  - but it's pretty obvious who actually has a clue about the game.

Rafa Rafael!!

yes Rafa the man who has won more European trophies at Chelsea than Maureen has despite spending a fortune again.
A Gentleman and a true scholar that's our Rafa and yes to many of us he is still ours just as all legends are.

Who wins the league in Spain? Barca or Madrid in the last 10 years. How many coaches? WHo won the league in the EPL in te last 10 years? Chelsea, Utd and Man City. How many Coaches. WHo won the league in Italy in the past 10 years? Inter, Milan and Juventus.

Not Rafa Benitez.

Of those teams Rafa was only ever at Inter for half a season and left because he wasnt going to enter into another H&G scenario

He didn't leave. He was sacked for wrecking the successful set up he was handed in months, and then tearing strips off Moratti in the press. Moratti doesn't tolerate outbursts and acts accordingly.

there are Liverpool fans out there who are are so bitter towards Rafa.

He gave us something that would of only have been topped by Brendan winning the league.

And if that's all he gave us, my argument would be a lot different. It wasn't though. There's much more to his time here than Istanbul.

This is a guy who wrote that "scientists are paid to invent stuff."

Winning a league is about producing the best balanced team - one that has the best possible attack combined with the best possible defence. Every champion you can think of has had to ensure that keeping a tight defence was the first priority - Keegan's Newcastle and recent Arsenal teams have tried to prioritise attack and gone the other way.

We made amazing progress this season - and its almost always the case you need to finish second in the league one year before you can win it the next. I still think that Rafa's side overall had a better balance than we did this season - if that team had been competing this year we would be champions in my opinion. Hopefully we can make further progress next year and take the final step.

You're the only poster who appears to take grave offence at the scientist quote. I don't know whether it's your profession or not, but I stand by it because it's correct.

Winning a league is about getting better results than everyone else in your league over 38 games. You can go about it anyway you want, but whatever way you do, you get what you deserve at the end of the year, be it the big reward or "do try again" next year. We got 6 "try again" requests from 6 attempts with him here. 3 other clubs have got similiar requests since he was driven out our door with 7 million quid in his pocket, leaving aside an encyclopedia in how to control a game, rather than win it.

Brendan doesn't bother with all that bollocks. He just tells the players to go out and win the game ask questions later, and so he isn't 20 points behind the champions anymore. Steve said last week that this was his first "proper" title challenge, a damning verdict on the much heralded 2009 one that should have been won, but wasn't for reasons I've stated several times before. As it happens, I don't agree with him. He also had a good go at it in 2002 as well.

In theory, Rafa's side would have won this year's title. In practice, it's more questionable. Rafa had his system, and bought players to fit his system and philosophy. Who knows whether they would have adapted to Brendan's or not. If they did, great, if they didn't, they'd be a waste of money, and we'd be back where we started.

We were not expected to win the league this year, and fell within 2 points of the line. But I have no regrets about our approach at Palace, at the time we needed to win by as big a margin as possible. It ultimately made no difference, but it was worth giving it a go. I don't agree that you have to lose one to win one. There is plenty of title winning and losing experience in that team, but all that experience can't prevent slipups happening like Steve's. It took 9 months to build a title challenge, it took 9 seconds to lose it.

Hopefully 12 months today, that trophy will finally come home, while 50 million quid later, Rafa sells another top 3-way off the pace spot as a "successful" season.

Not Rafa Benitez.

He didn't leave. He was sacked for wrecking the successful set up he was handed in months, and then tearing strips off Moratti in the press. Moratti doesn't tolerate outbursts and acts accordingly.

The squad he inherited at Inter were successful, were being the operative word. They were past their sell by and required some major upgrading.
 Moratti's preference in communicating skills do not seem to have any bearing on his club's achievements, Inter Milan have not been up there with the elite for some considerable time.

And if that's all he gave us, my argument would be a lot different. It wasn't though. There's much more to his time here than Istanbul.

You're the only poster who appears to take grave offence at the scientist quote. I don't know whether it's your profession or not, but I stand by it because it's correct.

Winning a league is about getting better results than everyone else in your league over 38 games. You can go about it anyway you want, but whatever way you do, you get what you deserve at the end of the year, be it the big reward or "do try again" next year. We got 6 "try again" requests from 6 attempts with him here. 3 other clubs have got similiar requests since he was driven out our door with 7 million quid in his pocket, leaving aside an encyclopedia in how to control a game, rather than win it.

Brendan doesn't bother with all that bollocks. He just tells the players to go out and win the game ask questions later, and so he isn't 20 points behind the champions anymore. Steve said last week that this was his first "proper" title challenge, a damning verdict on the much heralded 2009 one that should have been won, but wasn't for reasons I've stated several times before. As it happens, I don't agree with him. He also had a good go at it in 2002 as well.

In theory, Rafa's side would have won this year's title. In practice, it's more questionable. Rafa had his system, and bought players to fit his system and philosophy. Who knows whether they would have adapted to Brendan's or not. If they did, great, if they didn't, they'd be a waste of money, and we'd be back where we started.

We were not expected to win the league this year, and fell within 2 points of the line. But I have no regrets about our approach at Palace, at the time we needed to win by as big a margin as possible. It ultimately made no difference, but it was worth giving it a go. I don't agree that you have to lose one to win one. There is plenty of title winning and losing experience in that team, but all that experience can't prevent slipups happening like Steve's. It took 9 months to build a title challenge, it took 9 seconds to lose it.

Hopefully 12 months today, that trophy will finally come home, while 50 million quid later, Rafa sells another top 3-way off the pace spot as a "successful" season.

No other manager at LFC has had to contend with the blatant undermining that Rafa was subject to from H&G, they wanted rid of him in order to put a Noddy toy in his place and carry on their nefarious plans for the club.
He could have claimed wrongful dismissal and dragged the club through the courts which would have resulted in a bigger bill than the 6m he was rightfully recompensed with. H&G were as wrong with that episode as they were with their whole ruinous LFC ''venture''.
I suppose you want to apportion some blame for that monumental F**k up on Rafael Benitez as well.

You're the only poster who appears to take grave offence at the scientist quote. I don't know whether it's your profession or not, but I stand by it because it's correct.

No I don't take any offence to it at all - I mentioned it as an example of your "uncomplicated" view of life. And to reiterate - a scientist is not paid to "invent stuff" otherwise they would be called "inventors".

The point I was making is that you don't even make sense according to your own arguments. If we were to take what you said seriously, Brendan would also have to filed under your "do try again" category but you ignore your own argument because he "plays more attractive football/scores more goals/hasn't fallen out with board members or the press". On one hand you say you "can go about it any way you want" and on the other you praise one manager and belittle another for doing exactly that. If you don't have the courage of your convictions to judge managers by the same criteria then why should anyone else? Why aren't you posting similar comments about Kenny? He didn't win the league and was given a payoff so why has he escaped your attention?

It's simply because you simply have an anti-Rafa agenda.

Most likely it's because you don't know much about what it takes to win a league - your cliche-laden comments above make that the most likely case - but for whatever reason you start out with your conclusion in mind and selectively bend everything to fit that.

As things stand Rafa has won titles and trophies across the continent and done demonstrably better than your yardstick, Mourinho, in much worse circumstances but it wouldn't matter if he won Serie A the next three years running you would still come up with some bullshit excuse to reiterate the same argument.

As such, there's really little point in debating with you, you have an illogical hatred of his achievements here - we get it. As the Navajo proverb goes "You can't wake someone up who is pretending to be asleep."

Incidentally Napoli finish on 78 points - a big result which is the same as last year when everybody was talking about them - yet having sold the best player in the league - but also with the most goals ever scored in their history and having won the Coppa Italia. Absolutely fantastic achievement from Rafa - and, as we have seen from the past, we can expect a better performance next season as he puts tactical demands on his players that take a while to embed.

Mourinho is a better motivator but his success has consequently always tailed off after initial success.

L'Equipe are reporting that Rafa has signed a 4 year deal with Spurs but personally I hope he sticks it out with the Partenopi.

Not Rafa Benitez.

He didn't leave. He was sacked for wrecking the successful set up he was handed in months, and then tearing strips off Moratti in the press. Moratti doesn't tolerate outbursts and acts accordingly.

Yep he won the Fa Cup too, gave us a title challenge, got us to another European Cup final got us to the last four of the Europa League.

Sacked by a Chelsea supporting c**t and that tw*t Purslow, you F***ing mean. And what a marvellous job they did of appointing his successor!

You're the only Red with these views. A lot of the people I sit round in the Kop, still love Rafa, but have moved on now. The way you go on about Rafa you sound like an Evertonian, bitter and very twisted. Maybe you'd be better off visiting Goodison, I'm sure you could join in with their conversations about Benitez as you probably all have the same views!

We were not expected to win the league this year, and fell within 2 points of the line. But I have no regrets about our approach at Palace, at the time we needed to win by as big a margin as possible.

Bullshit, we needed to win, full F***ing stop. Wanting to win 9 F***ing nil was our downfall, simple as!

That and our approach to the Chelsea game and the amount of silly goals we have conceded over the season is what cost us the title, not just Steven's slip.

The squad he inherited at Inter were successful, were being the operative word. They were past their sell by and required some major upgrading. Inter Milan have not been up there with the elite for some considerable time.

They were Italian and European champions. The players were not sh*t. Any rebuilding job that had to be done was a process of evolution, not revolution. Instead, he took a Souness job to the team, the team snowballed down the league and he got fired. Inter haven't won the league since.

He could have claimed wrongful dismissal and dragged the club through the courts which would have resulted in a bigger bill than the 6m he was rightfully recompensed with. H&G were as wrong with that episode as they were with their whole ruinous LFC ''venture''.

He didn't take "wrongful dismissal" as he had no case. He left by mutual consent. That ends the issue there and then. 

Brendan would also have to filed under your "do try again" category.

Indeed he would. Having said that, he finished closer to the league with weaker resources, in a third of the time it took Rafa to get there.

On one hand you say you "can go about it any way you want" and on the other you praise one manager and belittle another for doing exactly that.

No I didn't. He's entitled to go about it anyway he wants as well. When you end the season 24 points off the pace though as Rafa just has, maybe it's time to find a Plan B.

Why aren't you posting similar comments about Kenny? He didn't win the league and was given a payoff so why has he escaped your attention?

Unless you were on a different planet between 1986-1990, you'll find Kenny Dalglish won 3 league titles as coach of Liverpool FC. Rafa won 0 in the even longer time he was here. So Kenny Dalglish doesn't escape my attention, he is teflon, end of story.

As things stand Rafa has won titles and trophies across the continent and done demonstrably better than your yardstick, Mourinho, in much worse circumstances but it wouldn't matter if he won Serie A the next three years running you would still come up with some bullshit excuse to reiterate the same argument.

As things stand, he hasn't won a European Cup in 9 years, and a league title in 10, despite having champions and medallists to coach throughout. He won't be winning Serie A for three years running, and I strongly doubt he will even win it once. You can't judge the world's greats on the amount of Coppa Italias they win.

Incidentally Napoli finish on 78 points - a big result which is the same as last year. Absolutely fantastic achievement from Rafa.

He got the same points as last year. You call that an achievement do you?

l''Equipe are reporting that Rafa has signed a 4 year deal with Spurs but personally I hope he sticks it out with the Partenopi.

I couldn't think of a better job for him

Haven't won a league - Check
Can't win a league - Check
Mad board/room set up - Check
Nutter owner - Check
Demanding fans - Check
Won't win a league - Check.

Should suit him down to the ground.

They were Italian and European champions. The players were not sh*t. Any rebuilding job that had to be done was a process of evolution, not revolution. Instead, he took a Souness job to the team, the team snowballed down the league and he got fired. Inter haven't won the league since.

I did state the word 'were' is a vital part of Inter's CV I notice you agree in your opening statement, point out where I described them as sh*t, they were an accomplished side but the majority were well past the first flush of youth.

 

He didn't take "wrongful dismissal" as he had no case. He left by mutual consent. That ends the issue there and then. 

He had every case in respect of H&G failing to honour their commitment to the club and taking it the edge of bankruptcy, in Rafa's eyes and everyone else's (bar your own good self) he was being forced to fall on his own sword.; in those circumstances he was entirely justified in receiving some payment for being sacked off.
Be under no illusion it was well 6m to those thieving bas**rds to get Rafa out and Noddy in.

No I didn't. He's entitled to go about it anyway he wants as well. When you end the season 24 points off the pace though as Rafa just has, maybe it's time to find a Plan B.

Unless you were on a different planet between 1986-1990, you'll find Kenny Dalglish won 3 league titles as coach of Liverpool FC. Rafa won 0 in the even longer time he was here. So Kenny Dalglish doesn't escape my attention, he is teflon, end of story.

As things stand, he hasn't won a European Cup in 9 years, and a league title in 10, despite having champions and medallists to coach throughout. He won't be winning Serie A for three years running, and I strongly doubt he will even win it once. You can't judge the world's greats on the amount of Coppa Italias they win.

He got the same points as last year. You call that an achievement do you?

I couldn't think of a better job for him

Haven't won a league - Check
Can't win a league - Check
Mad board/room set up - Check
Nutter owner - Check
Demanding fans - Check
Won't win a league - Check.

Should suit him down to the ground.

Were any of the examples you quote affected in any way by the wreckers mentioned previously?
Your closing comment is personal assertion entirely

Haven't won a league - Check
Can't win a league - Check
Won't win a league - Check.

Should suit him down to the ground.

Well that's a load of utter crock seeing as Rafa has won a league.

RedCafe suits you down to the ground. Have some respect for the man that put us back on top in European football you absolute moron.

 

He got the same points as last year. You call that an achievement do you?

Well, if we sold Suarez, and got a new manager in from abroad who managed to end the season on the same number of points as we did this year, completely changing the way we played, scoring more goals in the process and winning the FA cup on the way then, yes, I would consider it an achievement.

You're the only Red with these views.

What the neighbours, mancs, press think of him is their business. I have my own view.

I did state the word 'were' is a vital part of Inter's CV I notice you agree in your opening statement, point out where I described them as sh*t, they were an accomplished side but the majority were well past the first flush of youth.

You said the team required major upgrading. When we won the league and European Cup in 84, Souness had to be replaced, but what other major upgrading was necessary?

He had every case in respect of H&G failing to honour their commitment to the club and taking it the edge of bankruptcy, in Rafa's eyes and everyone else's (bar your own good self) he was being forced to fall on his own sword.; in those circumstances he was entirely justified in receiving some payment for being sacked off.

He had no case at all. He left technically by agreeing to a mutual consent arrangement, so he couldn't take the club to court. What the owners plans for the club were, is a separate issue.

If he bit his tongue for another few months, he would have started his new contract and had different owners. But he couldn't and didn't. Brendan does.

Question for you then LFCATW - if Kenny is "Teflon", having won the league three times, and (by your criteria) Brendan is in the "must do better" category having not won anything at the top level, would you - in an ideal world - like to see Brendan replaced by Kenny?

Rafa is Boss.

YNWA.

What the neighbours, mancs, press think of him is their business. I have my own view.

You said the team required major upgrading. When we won the league and European Cup in 84, Souness had to be replaced, but what other major upgrading was necessary?

He had no case at all. He left technically by agreeing to a mutual consent arrangement, so he couldn't take the club to court. What the owners plans for the club were, is a separate issue.

If he bit his tongue for another few months, he would have started his new contract and had different owners. But he couldn't and didn't. Brendan does.

Are you taking the piss, get back amongst your own - the dickheads who support that mid-table no-account team of has beens.

I am completely baffled by the above post.

Moving on.

Question for you then LFCATW - if Kenny is "Teflon", having won the league three times, and (by your criteria) Brendan is in the "must do better" category having not won anything at the top level, would you - in an ideal world - like to see Brendan replaced by Kenny?

In an ideal world, Kenny would have been allowed to improve on ending the famine, and bringing us to Wembley three times in the one full season he was given. That's not a slight on Brendan and no reflection of his ability to do the job asked of him. He has been fortunate though, that he wasn't judged on his first full season as Kenny was. Because if he was judged on it, the picture atm would look much bleaker.

LFCATW can you explain why you show so much malice and venom towards RAFA,I am trying hard to understand where you are coming from.Is it a total dislike of RAFA or is there some other underlying fact that you are not telling us, can you tell me any other manager who could of done a better job  than RAFA did under the Hicks and Gillette regime.