Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread

You're hardly the most objective man when it comes to Rafa though mate, so to tell Mick he's being bias, it's difficult to take that seriously.

All Mick has done is provide an objective view but some reason saying Rafa is 'decent' isn't enough for some, it has to be 'he's the greatest manager who ever lived and Mourinho is a fraud' (because for some reason it's impossible to leave Jose out of the discussion when talking about Rafa).

And I forgot I was taking the piss of the word engender.

I think it would be extremely easy to argue the opposite without stretching your brain too much mate.

I think it's difficult to compare. Jose has won with teams expected to win. If you look at the change since he first redefined outspend, we now have city spending swathes. Utd had their hand forced too. So now he finds his chelsea in a league in Europe that is also full of stars. Now no one really thinks chelsea will win in Europe. They would even be shocked if city won the league this year given that one team has bought costa Fabregas and courtois in one transfer window. He was defined by money and now that definition has changed.

Rafa never outspent the opposition. So it is difficult to compare.

I think it's difficult to compare. Jose has won with teams expected to win . If you look at the change since he first redefined outspend, we now have city spending swathes. Utd had their hand forced too. So now he finds his chelsea in a league in Europe that is also full of stars. Now no one really thinks chelsea will win in Europe. They would even be shocked if city won the league this year given that one team has bought costa Fabregas and courtois in one transfer window. He was defined by money and now that definition has changed.

Rafa never outspent the opposition. So it is difficult to compare.

You really ought to start a thread on him mate, you are completely obsessed by the man. When you do (or if you do I suppose) we can have a good old chin wag about how he "overspent" everyone prior to his successes. Just so's I can join in when you do go there, are you taking into account money recouped in transfer fees as well? You know, stuff like David Luis at Chelsea, Mata, Lukaku, the German bloke whose name escapes me, Ibrhamovic at Inter etc?

Like I say though, if I felt as strongly about a manager as you do about Mourinho I'd definitely start a thread on it rather than polluting this one. 

You really ought to start a thread on him mate, you are completely obsessed by the man. When you do (or if you do I suppose) we can have a good old chin wag about how he "overspent" everyone prior to his successes. Just so's I can join in when you do go there, are you taking into account money recouped in transfer fees as well? You know, stuff like David Luis at Chelsea, Mata, Lukaku, the German bloke whose name escapes me, Ibrhamovic at Inter etc?

Like I say though, if I felt as strongly about a manager as you do about Mourinho I'd definitely start a thread on it rather than polluting this one. 

Mention Jose and u appear mick, seems we're both obsessed

Mention Jose and u appear mick, seems we're both obsessed

Not at all mate. Start your thread on him and you'll see how obsessed I aren't.

I think it's amazing on a day that we pick up another 3 points the Benitez thread is still getting as much attention as the Rodgers one. Good grief.

I think it's difficult to compare.

Which is why it was silly for the poster to write that Rafa is better then Jose PERIOD.

I'm a huge Rafa fan as most on here know but only an idiot would question the success Mourinho has had and anyone could quite confortably argue that Morinho is the better manager which is why I questioned such a bold statement.

For the record I think Mourinho is a tit and never wanted him as a manager of our club as some did but to doubt his ability as a football manager is a bit silly.

I think it's difficult to compare. Jose has won with teams expected to win. If you look at the change since he first redefined outspend, we now have city spending swathes. Utd had their hand forced too. So now he finds his chelsea in a league in Europe that is also full of stars. Now no one really thinks chelsea will win in Europe. They would even be shocked if city won the league this year given that one team has bought costa Fabregas and courtois in one transfer window. He was defined by money and now that definition has changed.

Rafa never outspent the opposition. So it is difficult to compare.

Think what Mick's trying to say is he hates Rafa with a passion. This is obvious from the fact that he doesn't believe in altar worship.

Think what Mick's trying to say is he hates Rafa with a passion. This is obvious from the fact that he doesn't believe in altar worship.

Who knows what Mick is trying to say. I mean how do you even begin to understand the motivations of people on football forum, even though it seems straight forward. How many people with multiple avatars. How many posters are not Lfc fans at all but unlike 'Lfc across the water' they don't make it obvious. I mean there is a lot of debate inside the debate we are having here. Don't you think

Which is why it was silly for the poster to write that Rafa is better then Jose PERIOD.

I'm a huge Rafa fan as most on here know but only an idiot would question the success Mourinho has had and anyone couls quite confortably argue that Morinho is the better manage which is why I questioned such a bold statement.

For the record I think Mourinho is a tit and never wanted him as a manager of our club as some did but to doubt his ability as a football manager is a bit silly.

Agreed

Who knows what Mick is trying to say. I mean how do you even begin to understand the motivations of people on football forum, even though it seems straight forward. How many people with multiple avatars. How many posters are not Lfc fans at all but unlike 'Lfc across the water' they don't make it obvious. I mean there is a lot of debate inside the debate we are having here. Don't you think

Oh aye soft lad. I've been on Liverpool forums for over ten years, travelled around the country supporting em and met up with multiple forum members but I don't actually support Liverpool. It's all a cunning ruse. Just out of interest, do you think I've got f*** all better to do or what  . You couldn't make this sh!t up. Why not just agree to differ, you rate Benitez higher than me, what's so difficult to accept about that?

Oh aye soft lad. I've been on Liverpool forums for over ten years, travelled around the country supporting em and met up with multiple forum members but I don't actually support Liverpool. It's all a cunning ruse. Just out of interest, do you think I've got f*** all better to do or what  . You couldn't make this sh!t up. Why not just agree to differ, you rate Benitez higher than me, what's so difficult to accept about that?

That was directed at forums in general Mick, not at you. The poster was being facetious so I gave it back to him, it looked to me I was questioning their motivation, not yours.

I have no proof of anything anyone says on this forum neither do you. With Rafa it seems when you mention his record you will say something like Napoli were challenging for the title when he took over. Liverpool won a CL and Fa cup then nothing. No mention of H&G, no mention of the inordinate sums spent by Chelsea or the disparity between Utd, Arseanl and us. Similarly with Inter Milan, no mention of the Moratti buying one player, Coutinho, to freshen the previous years  treble winners, who played a world cup, then a world club cup. As I remember, Rafa made demands they weren't met so he left.

I mean I think the man deserves a fair trial. this is a liverpool forum after all

That was directed at forums in general Mick, not at you. The poster was being facetious so I gave it back to him, it looked to me I was questioning their motivation, not yours.

I have no proof of anything anyone says on this forum neither do you. With Rafa it seems when you mention his record you will say something like Napoli were challenging for the title when he took over. Liverpool won a CL and Fa cup then nothing. No mention of H&G, no mention of the inordinate sums spent by Chelsea or the disparity between Utd, Arseanl and us. Similarly with Inter Milan, no mention of the Moratti buying one player, Coutinho, to freshen the previous years  treble winners, who played a world cup, then a world club cup. As I remember, Rafa made demands they weren't met so he left.

I mean I think the man deserves a fair trial. this is a liverpool forum after all

Nobodies under trial, WTF are you on about? I'm gonna leave it with you, f***ing conversations descending into the bizarre.

Nobodies under trial, WTF are you on about? I'm gonna leave it with you, f***ing conversations descending into the bizarre.

 

True mate.

Nobodies under trial, WTF are you on about? I'm gonna leave it with you, f***ing conversations descending into the bizarre.

That's a bit of an over reaction Mick. To say 'fair trail' is not literal. If we are going to anlayse managers records we need to be objective. I don't think either of us were being objective about Rafa.

Why not just agree to differ, you rate Benitez higher than me, what's so difficult to accept about that?

Its not hard to agree to differ. For my part I weight the things against Rafa that I think stopped progress here. I think H&G had everything to do with it and then he got caught up it in it but I think he stayed on for the right reasons. I believe his methods are more transferable than most other managers as he can win with lesser squads.

I've never been sold on the man manager thing. I think it works for some managers but it is probably limited in its effectiveness. Ferguson was a great manager they say but a useless tactician especially in Europe, where he brought Queiroz in to fix it. I have heard Xabi Alonso talk about the strength of Mourinho being his ablility to making players commit to the cause and believe in their role. Once again I think this has a limited lifespan. I think Rafa has been accused of being a bad man manager. I always hear Rafa talk about professionals. He wants professionals and the reason being..  they do there job because they are being paid to. He focusses on the crowd to gee players up.

So I'm not accusing you of being a spy, I was just getting fed up with going in circles when we both obviously have our own views, and sometimes my message gets lost.

Nobodies under trial, WTF are you on about? I'm gonna leave it with you, f***ing conversations descending into the bizarre.

Some bizarre person gave him a + for that bollox, little wonder threads are locked in topics here when the ridiculous gains a foothold.

Some bizarre person gave him a + for that bollox, little wonder threads are locked in topics here when the ridiculous gains a foothold.

The BNP not meeting this week Stuey.

The BNP not meeting this week Stuey.

Who can say with some of the F***ing cranks getting this thread locked.

Some bizarre person gave him a + for that bollox, little wonder threads are locked in topics here when the ridiculous gains a foothold.

Funnily enough mate I generally quite enjoy discussing past managers, both of our own and other clubs. This last few pages though is a graphic illustration of why I long since gave up on talking about Benitez, save for correcting factual errors his cult chuck in sometimes on this thread "Rafa's a trophy machine, he won three trophies with us" etc etc. You cannot have a sensible discussion about the man without getting covered in mouth foam and gibberish from his supporters.

I made the mistake here of getting involved with this character who has accused me before via insinuation of not being a Liverpool fan because I don't agree with him. I should have known better. I won't be making the same mistake again.

Funnily enough mate I generally quite enjoy discussing past managers, both of our own and other clubs. This last few pages though is a graphic illustration of why I long since gave up on talking about Benitez, save for correcting factual errors his cult chuck in sometimes on this thread "Rafa's a trophy machine, he won three trophies with us" etc etc. You cannot have a sensible discussion about the man without getting covered in mouth foam and gibberish from his supporters.

I made the mistake here of getting involved with this character who has accused me before via insinuation of not being a Liverpool fan because I don't agree with him. I should have known better. I won't be making the same mistake again.

Sat back and watch this with interest, to be honest i agree with everything you say Mick but i have stronger views on why i wouldnt want Rafa back but no point airing them in a thread when people actually put on record that Rafa is better than Murhino!!! no point at all.

Funnily enough mate I generally quite enjoy discussing past managers, both of our own and other clubs. This last few pages though is a graphic illustration of why I long since gave up on talking about Benitez, save for correcting factual errors his cult chuck in sometimes on this thread "Rafa's a trophy machine, he won three trophies with us" etc etc. You cannot have a sensible discussion about the man without getting covered in mouth foam and gibberish from his supporters.

I made the mistake here of getting involved with this character who has accused me before via insinuation of not being a Liverpool fan because I don't agree with him. I should have known better. I won't be making the same mistake again.

Foam mouth is an exaggeration Mick as is the laconic publican stick that turns quickly into legalese when challenged.
I didn't accuse you. I said talking online is not about honesty.

And as was my original point, if I was in charge at Man City I'd be looking at Diego Sineone.

I wouldn't.

Simeone might one day prove to be a great manager and what he did with Atleti was impressive but he has a long way to go to prove he can do it consistently and across different teams and leagues.

Most notably, managers have struggled to adjust to the Premiership whereas Rafa has a proven pedigree so giving the reigns of a club like City to Simeone would be a huge gamble.

Bottom line is that Rafa accumulated the highest points total for LFC for decades and made us the top-rated team in Europe whilst he was here.