Tommy Smith: Liverpool FC boss Roy Hodgson so right to get lean and mean

From todays Liverpool Echo...

TOMMY SMITH: Liverpool FC boss Roy Hodgson so right to get lean and mean

I SAID a couple of weeks ago that I thought Roy Hodgson was learning fast at Liverpool. And now I’m convinced I was right!

He’s just come out and said Liverpool are unbelievably overstaffed when it comes to squad players and I couldn’t agree more.

There just seem to have been so many players on the books in recent seasons who never really seem to get a look in, yet who remain on the Anfield pay roll for some reason.

We’re not talking about very young upcoming talent that needs to be given time to develop in the youth and academy sides.

But other players who, if they were good enough for the Reds, should really have been making a breakthrough by now.

Hodgson is clearly prepared to tackle the issues bequeathed to him by the previous regime and it is a positive sign that he has taken stock of things at Anfield and Melwood so quickly.

The likes of Damien Plessis and Emiliano Insuia – lads who actually have had a chance in the first team – have been shipped out. And there are clearly a good few more to follow them out of the door now.

It simply can’t be good for the club or, to be fair, the players themselves to be treading water as they grow too old for reserve football but who know they’re not good enough to play alongside the likes of Reina, Carragher, Torres and Gerrard etc.

They’re all being paid decent enough money but what for? They must get fed up not being involved and surely they want a chance to play football at a club where the skills they do have are better suited and can be used.

I remember Chris Lawler and myself went through the ranks pretty quickly when we were young and made it into the Liverpool first team in the sixties. But when Bill Shankly first arrived at Anfield he saw a similar problem to Hodgson in that there were players there like Dick Whie and Bobby Campbell who he felt were surplus to first team requirements and needed to move on. And off they went.

Building up a massive squad of names and numbers might look impressive on paper but it’s a not a good sign to have so many under-employed players on the books.

The leaner we are on these fringe players hopefully the meaner we will be under Hodgson....

Liverpool Echo link

I have to say I agree with 'the iron' here. I thought last season that there were plenty of players we could get rid of and whilst we would be worse off quantity wise, we would be no worse off quality wise.

I would like us to get rid of the dead wood before we start bringing more players through the door in January. Ultimately I want us to end up with a hungry squad, all capable, and carrying nobody.

What does everyone think?

Can't argue with getting rid of dead wood, but with the savings Roy will make will he see any of the money, in this current climate i don't thik he will

Can't argue with getting rid of dead wood, but with the savings Roy will make will he see any of the money, in this current climate I don't thik he will

Also in todays echo it says the club will back him with finances to get a new striker in January. Hope that materialises!

You have to get shut of dead wood and I'd expect any new manager to be doing it.

But I'm afraid these times are different to what the Iron was used to. And I worry that Roy may have to clear not only dead wood but also big strong Oak trees to shuffle the payroll.

Also in todays echo it says the club will back him with finances to get a new striker in January. Hope that materialises!

Haven't we heared that before

Which oak trees Ken?

Haven't we heared that before

Certainly have. So I bet Roy is not holding his breath!

Also in todays echo it says the club will back him with finances to get a new striker in January. Hope that materialises!

Where have we heard that before? In full agreement Don with your initial post but for the equation to work some quality has to replace the dross and thus far that has not happened.

I'm not really buying this sh*te... Fairy muff, getting rid of dead wood is a no brain-er but other successful teams have large squads obviously to prepare themselves through injury periods like us last season. A couple players for each position if you like.. If a first team-er gets injured then his natural replacement steps up. That replacement will now be an inexperienced young reserve type player.
To me it just sounds like a way to justify this stripping of assets and everyones buying it.. *Sighs*..
The club the fans and the players will not benefit in the slightest..

I'm not really buying this sh*te... Fairy muff, getting rid of dead wood is a no brain-er but other successful teams have large squads obviously to prepare themselves through injury periods like us last season. A couple players for each position if you like.. If a first team-er gets injured then his natural replacement steps up. That replacement will now be an inexperienced young reserve type player.
To me it just sounds like a way to justify this stripping of assets and everyones buying it.. *Sighs*..
The club the fans and the players will not benefit in the slightest..

I would much rather have a young player to come in mate rather than someone not of sufficient quality. At times last season we used Degen at right back instead of Kelly. Getting rid of the likes of degan is hardly asset stripping.

What Tommy is saying is that over the last few years there have been players in and around the first team squad that never actually play. So in other words, what are they doing here? They are just sucking wages out of the club when they are actually of no use to us!

The likes of El Zhar and Plessis have been shipped out and there will be a few more to follow. I get the impression Roy is going to be ruthless. Prove your worth to the squad or your out is not a bad mentality imo.

You have to get shut of dead wood and I'd expect any new manager to be doing it.

But I'm afraid these times are different to what the Iron was used to. And I worry that Roy may have to clear not only dead wood but also big strong Oak trees to shuffle the payroll.

That's what I'm afraid of Kenny, hope we are wrong!

Also in todays echo it says the club will back him with finances to get a new striker in January. Hope that materialises!

Yeah, it is going to be a "big winter"

Yeah, it is going to be a "big winter"

Yeah, only if dim and dimmer have gone!

To be honest I stopped listening to what Tommy Smith had to say a long time ago.

He talks sense

I would much rather have a young player to come in mate rather than someone not of sufficient quality. At times last season we used Degen at right back instead of Kelly. Getting rid of the likes of degan is hardly asset stripping.

What Tommy is saying is that over the last few years there have been players in and around the first team squad that never actually play. So in other words, what are they doing here? They are just sucking wages out of the club when they are actually of no use to us!

The likes of El Zhar and Plessis have been shipped out and there will be a few more to follow. I get the impression Roy is going to be ruthless. Prove your worth to the squad or your out is not a bad mentality IMO.

I'm not saying we should keep every player we've signed.. Its the principle or the justification that their trying to give.. Basically their saying fringe players shouldn't exist??

First team players,

Fringe players,

Young reserves with potential.

In principle they want to get rid of the whole middle tier??.. Besides, if we were injury free for a season (as if) them same young players would become fringe players/Dead wood unable to break into the first team..

Bottom line is.. Nobody benefits from this shakedown but the owners..

I'm not saying we should keep every player we've signed.. Its the principle or the justification that their trying to give.. Basically their saying fringe players shouldn't exist??

First team players,

Fringe players,

Young reserves with potential.

In principle they want to get rid of the whole middle tier??.. Besides, if we were injury free for a season (as if) them same young players would become fringe players/Dead wood unable to break into the first team..

Bottom line is.. Nobody benefits from this shakedown but the owners..

The point is mate that we do not want players who are not going to figure in the first team and are too old for the reserves. If that is the middle tier then yep they should be sacrificed. We should not be having anyone in our 21 man squad who is not going to figure.

Over the last couple of years there has been far too much dead wood, who do not play and who are sucking wages out of the club on the books. If getting rid of them gets the wage bill down without losing any 'quality' from the squad I am all for it!

Roy wants a squad that could all be considered 'first teamers' and a ressies squad that is young and full of potential. He does not want anything in between.

To be honest I stopped listening to what Tommy Smith had to say a long time ago.

Why was that? Liverpool legend, knows the game inside out. Ive got alot of time for the iron and respect his opinion!

People have also stopped listening to StJohn, Lawernson, Hanson, Thompson, Hunt, Aldridge, Whelan, Barns and a whole lot more who have criticised the way the club had been going under rafa. yep I guess Smith joins a list of legends who must know feck all

Why was that? Liverpool legend, knows the game inside out. Ive got alot of time for the iron and respect his opinion!

Read his autobiography, some of the things he accuses Emlyn Hughes of, are a bit naughty.

Read his autobiography, some of the things he accuses Emlyn Hughes of, are a bit naughty.

Not read his book mate, but I may get my hands on it. I think my dad has it. But it wont be the first book written were someone slams someone and it wont be the last. Obviously they did not get on but they were too great players for Liverpool. Crazy horse was taken too early from us. The iron knows the game, and I respect his opinion and on thois occasion re the article I agree with it.

Will check the book out!

People have also stopped listening to StJohn, Lawernson, Hanson, Thompson, Hunt, Aldridge, Whelan, Barns and a whole lot more who have criticised the way the club had been going under rafa. yep I guess Smith joins a list of legends who must know feck all

It doesn't do your arguement much good when you're misspelling the names of people like Hansen and Barnes. And St John should have a space in his name.

Not having a go at you, just something you might want to think about.

People have also stopped listening to StJohn, Lawernson, Hanson, Thompson, Hunt, Aldridge, Whelan, Barns and a whole lot more who have criticised the way the club had been going under rafa. yep I guess Smith joins a list of legends who must know feck all

That'll be St John the xenophobe who slaughtered Houllier, sorry The Frenchman virtually all the way through the treble season, in fact it got so bad Radio City ended up replacing him with Aldo!!

Lawrenson talks out of his arse and says anything that make him look good in front of Lineker, his columns are a load of sh*te too.

You do know Whelan is a die-hard Utd fan?

I never heard John Barnes or Phil Thompson really have a go at Rafa and generally like listening to their thoughts, same goes for Hansen, but his "Worst Liverpool team in 45 years" quote back in 2005 is up there with "You win nothing with kids" quote.

Well why post then and how the fleck does misss spellllinngs of names alter alter a debate 

I'm not saying we should keep every player we've signed.. Its the principle or the justification that their trying to give.. Basically their saying fringe players shouldn't exist??

No they are not.

Look at our second string or fringe players.

Jones
Kelly
Sotis
Skrtel
Aurelio
Babel
Lucas
Poulsen
Maxi
Pacheco
Ngog

It's hardly a side brimming with inexperience really is it? 7 full internationals and probably our two most promising lads over the past year or two (Kelly and Pacheco). Along with regulars in the first team/squad for a while Ngog and Aurelio.

The "second tier" is not being removed at all.

Barney had many a go at Rafa and his style of play as did Thompson, Hunt said he should of been sacked 18 months earlier and got slated. Point is anyone who has played the game at such a high level and in a red shirt has earned the right to have an expert opinion..

Let's be honest about St John since Houllier took over the style of our football has gradually been dropping from the old pass and move last seen under Uncle Roy Evans. 

Roy wants a squad that could all be considered 'first teamers' and a ressies squad that is young and full of potential. He does not want anything in between.

How can all the players be considered first teamers with space for your best 11 and without spending copious amounts of money?

That'll be St John the xenophobe who slaughtered Houllier, sorry The Frenchman virtually all the way through the treble season, in fact it got so bad Radio City ended up replacing him with Aldo!!

Lawrenson talks out of his arse and says anything that make him look good in front of Lineker, his columns are a load of sh*te too.

You do know Whelan is a die-hard Utd fan?

I never heard John Barnes or Phil Thompson really have a go at Rafa and generally like listening to their thoughts, same goes for Hansen, but his "Worst Liverpool team in 45 years" quote back in 2005 is up there with "You win nothing with kids" quote.

Lawrenson is certainly hit and miss for me. The rest I like listening to. These lads get asked questions. They all played for the club and know what makes the club tick and what the club is about.

All about fighting for your place, your first eleven should pick itself the rest of the squad should be fighting to knock the opposing first teamer of his perch. 

Barney had many a go at Rafa and his style of play as did Thompson, Hunt said he should of been sacked 18 months earlier and got slated. Point is anyone who has played the game at such a high level and in a red shirt has earned the right to have an expert opinion..

Let's be honest about St John since Houllier took over the style of our football has gradually been dropping from the old pass and move last seen under Uncle Roy Evans. 

I think that had a lot more to do with his condition, it pretty much started directly after Leverkusen, when he tried to go attacking by bringing on Smicer for Hamann and it backfired, from that moment on he went very defensive and our football suffered.

Also a lot of the older players will say want the interviewer wants to hear so they carry on getting paid.

How can all the players be considered first teamers with space for your best 11 and without spending copious amounts of money?

He doesnt want to get an injury, look at his squad and not have confidence in the players he has to come in. That was our problem last season, when we saw the likes of Dossena, Degan, Voronin ( who was packed off to a beach in november ) and El Zhar were on the bench.

He wants a squad that are all capable of playing in the first team, that will increase competition!

To be Honest although I don't rate Houllier I think he would make a fantastic number two but that was never going to happen.

Point is anyone who has played the game at such a high level and in a red shirt has earned the right to have an expert opinion..

I don't entirely agree.. Their loyalty to the club gives their opinion platform but i don't rate their opinion higher than any fans because they no longer play "modern" football.. They spectate just as we do.. In fact there simply fans themselves.. And I also get the feeling many ex reds will always believe they can do better than the current manager at some point..
Their views are as important as mine.. Not very.

Disagree Chico they are experts in their field and we can never know what it is like to play at the highest level. If I look sick would take the opinion of a doctor than someone who has watched loads of episodes of casualty.

Disagree Chico they are experts in their field and we can never know what it is like to play at the highest level. If I look sick would take the opinion of a doctor than someone who has watched loads of episodes of casualty.

hmm.. I get what your saying but what if that doctor was from the 1800's....
I'd go with the tv doc.....

People have also stopped listening to StJohn, Lawernson, Hanson, Thompson, Hunt, Aldridge, Whelan, Barns and a whole lot more who have criticised the way the club had been going under rafa.
Yep I guess Smith joins a list of legends who must know feck all

Or maybe they were all right about Rafa?


These are people I saw play. All of them.

Or maybe they were all right about Rafa?


These are people I saw play.

You'll get roasted for saying that mate

I think all the way through last season we were saying some of the dead wood needed clearing, players such as Plessis, Elzhar, Degen, Voronin, Riera were almost unanimously mentioned every time., however I think we all hoped that if we were going to lose 6 to 8 players as an example, we'd get 1 maybe 2 quality players in at their expense, we got half our wish.

Some of the players Roy got rid off, I totally agree with, one or two he got rid off, I could never agree with.

While i'll question the motives of their sales, i have to commend Roy on letting them go. Won't go into the many mitigating factors around the reasoning for their sales, or where the money went from these sales, but i'd rather Pacheco to El Zhar or Riera, Kelly to Degen etc.

Every club in the world done this as daily basis. This is a regular job for every manager, so what a point to discuss ?

Maybe im missing something here. But, with all this slating of Rafa, i have to ask:

Did the 08-09 season when everyone was praising him suddenly get struck off the history books after last season?

Some people have short memorys. 

Hunt said he should of been sacked 18 months earlier and got slated.

Yeah, i bet everyone was agreeing with him during the 08-09 season when we out scored everyone with that useless tosser managing us.

You'll get roasted for saying that mate

Have been since turn of the year.

Point is anyone who has played the game at such a high level and in a red shirt has earned the right to have an expert opinion..

Even if they work for The S*n?

Even if they work for The S*n?

Sickening picture that. Hunt has no conscience.

Agree with Tommy Smith totally, the squad under Rafa (and going back further under Houllier) was bloated with average players who either never where good enough in the first place or youngsters who never really looked like making the grade.

People like El Zhar and Degen should have left 18months / 2 years ago and as it seems to be the case with Roy, talented youngsters like Kelly, Pacheco etc could have been introduced earlier and been as/even more effectve.

Smith missed a good opportunity to keep his mouth shut and making himself look stupid.
Evdeitnly he knows nothing about player development and keeping a squad - hence his own career choice as poor quality hack.

We used to have 5 strikers. We now have 1.5.There's 3 players worth 80 m sold and never replaced.
Outrageous transfer profits. Is Smith just braindead or on the payroll as well ?
Purslow's Poodle has a braindead fan. Whoring himself around, so he can get work in the hospitality side I suspect.

2 fingers up to the fans again.

We used to have 5 strikers. We now have 1.5.There's 3 players worth 80 m sold and never replaced.
Outrageous transfer profits. Is Smith just braindead or on the payroll as well ?

Who were these five strikers?
And who are the three players never replaced?

Who were these five strikers?
And who are the three players never replaced?

Definitions may vary - I'm listing players who could be classed as a striker, or striker "at a push".


06-07
Fowler Garcia crouch bellamy kuyt pongolle ( el zhar)

04-05 baros kewell cisse garcia morientes pongolle mellor

05-06 cisse crouch fowler ,morientes
Then gerrard kewell garcia

07-8 kewell torres voronin benayoun gerrard crouch kuyt (babel)

3 players OUT - keane, alonso, mascherano ( and ofcourse much more money going into the Gang of 5's pockets)

TODAY
- Torres
Semi Ngog
Not really semi Babel - ie utter failure

Clearly Hodgson is just Purslow's lapdog. And Smith should be ashamed of himself for toadeying up to Purslow and co.

Definitions may vary - I'm listing players who could be classed as a striker, or striker "at a push".

Very biased... You name Gerrard and Kuyt in the past, but not the present?  Yossi as a striker? Mellor and Pongolle?
If you are doing that, then today, we have:

Torres, Kuyt, Babel, Cole, Jovanovic, Gerrard, (NGog) and (Pacheco).

Now, if you ask me, we currently have Torres and NGog as strikers, plus Kuyt or Jovanovic 'at a push' if needed. Sort of, one striker and three halfs.  We've never had five, we've only ever really had two, when Crouch and Keane were here, two and a half if you count Voronin, Rafa sold them but didn't replace them - and he did have the money to do so.

Now, I agree with you that this is just not good enough, compared to our rivals -

Utd: Rooney, Berbatov and Owen with Hernandez and Macheda, Three strikers and two halfs.
Chelsea: Anelka, Drogba, Kalou and Kakuta, three and a half
Arsenal: Van Persie, Chamakh, Bendtner and Vela, two and two halfs
City: Adebayor, Santa Cruz, Jo, Tevez, Balotelli... five strikers
Spurs: Defoe, Crouch, Pav, Keane, dos Santos - five as well

We need a striker and this is why Roy was looking at Gomez, which unfortunately did not come off.

There is plenty to criticise the owners for, we don't need to make things up.

While i dont agree with all that Tommy has to say it right pisses me off when the younger ones on this forum come on here slagging him off do a bit of history guys that man wore that shirt with pride for us ,coming on here saying he dont know about modern football for fck sake the ball is round the nets are still at opposite ends of the field the biggest change in football is the diets and the fitness and that man could have played in any fcking era . 

While I dont agree with all that Tommy has to say it right pisses me off when the younger ones on this forum come on here slagging him off do a bit of history guys that man wore that shirt with pride for us ,coming on here saying he dont know about modern football for fck sake the ball is round the nets are still at opposite ends of the field the biggest change in football is the diets and the fitness and that man could have played in any fcking era . 

And Tommy the Anfield Iron, went in where others these days would fear to tread.

Now, if you ask me, we currently have Torres and NGog as strikers, plus Kuyt or Jovanovic 'at a push' if needed. Sort of, one striker and three halfs.  We've never had five, we've only ever really had two, when Crouch and Keane were here, two and a half if you count Voronin, Rafa sold them but didn't replace them - and he did have the money to do so.

Revisionist bullshit and you F***ing well know it.

Where did the money go from the Keane and Alonso transfers as it wasn't F***ing used to buy players was it, so where did the F***ing money go?

PAYING OFF THE DEBT!!!

we don't need to make things up.

Yes! We dont need to make things up! I'm going on the 3 keepers, 8 def, 8 mid, 4 attackers and a variety of other players.Kuyt etc cant be classed as a striker, because we've got hardly any midfielders either!

All the top managers have a reserve team, a youth team and healthy squad. With players being developed, or out on loan, or out of favour ready to be sold. By the argument of these clowns Smith and Hodgson, then Wenger, Ferguson, Mourinho, Ancelotti and Mancini are "crap" managers

Smith needs to show some solidarity with the fans instead of kissing Turdslow's arse. Hodgson the Paycheque Poodle needs to call himself a taxi.

Maybe im missing something here. But, with all this slating of Rafa, I have to ask:

Did the 08-09 season when everyone was praising him suddenly get struck off the history books after last season?

Some people have short memorys. 

This this this..

Read his autobiography, some of the things he accuses Emlyn Hughes of, are a bit naughty.

Read that myself, he constantly talks about him and doesn't drop it. Did seem really full of himself in the book to be fair.

Read that myself, he constantly talks about him and doesn't drop it. Did seem really full of himself in the book to be fair.

In his day, didnt we win the league with 15 players or sthg. And the matchday squad was 11 plus a sub. Players would play 70 games because the pace and fitness levels were NOWHERE near today. FOotball is a VASTLY different game today.

Too many ex players are just thinking of their "hosting work" in the Cen Stand etc and towing the Purslow party line. Some are nothing but whores. Big players, little men, thinking of a pay cheque. Smith needs to grow some balls. Who'd have thought we'd have to say that about Smith when he was a player.

In his day, didnt we win the league with 15 players or sthg. And the matchday squad was 11 plus a sub. Players would play 70 games because the pace and fitness levels were NOWHERE near today. FOotball is a VASTLY different game today.

Too many ex players are just thinking of their "hosting work" in the Cen Stand etc and towing the Purslow party line. Some are nothing but whores. Big players, little men, thinking of a pay cheque. Smith needs to grow some balls. Who'd have thought we'd have to say that about Smith when he was a player.

Yeah I remember seeing that stat around before, and it's often one thats used as a reason to not have a big squad. Morons use it, because the game is so much different these days, so many more games are played than back then when you take into account international friendlies, all the shitty qualifiers for Europe etc. Also the fact that all other teams at the time were using a similar amount of players, so it was a level playing field.

Smiths articles personally I find he is very biased, and tries to hard to sound like a passionate, optimistic fan (which I don't doubt), but if he is writing articles, then they need to be balanced, it's what's wrong with todays media, where opinion is used as fact.

In his day, didnt we win the league with 15 players or sthg. And the matchday squad was 11 plus a sub. Players would play 70 games because the pace and fitness levels were NOWHERE near today. FOotball is a VASTLY different game today.

Too many ex players are just thinking of their "hosting work" in the Cen Stand etc and towing the Purslow party line. Some are nothing but whores. Big players, little men, thinking of a pay cheque. Smith needs to grow some balls. Who'd have thought we'd have to say that about Smith when he was a player.

Yeah I remember seeing that stat around before, and it's often one thats used as a reason to not have a big squad. Morons use it, because the game is so much different these days, so many more games are played than back then when you take into account international friendlies, all the shitty qualifiers for Europe etc. Also the fact that all other teams at the time were using a similar amount of players, so it was a level playing field.

Smiths articles personally I find he is very biased, and tries to hard to sound like a passionate, optimistic fan (which I don't doubt), but if he is writing articles, then they need to be balanced, it's what's wrong with todays media, where opinion is used as fact.

Great posts SaveLiverpoolFC and RedWilly mates.