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      Could this be the problem with the squad?

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      solodee
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      Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Sep 27, 2010 11:35:27 pm
      THREE PLAYERS THAT NEED TO TAKE A LONG LOOK AT THEMSELVES

      There is a certain myth around Liverpool FC that needs to be broken, a lie that we tell ourselves as Liverpool fans that we need to stop pervading, and it is that some senior players can do no wrong.  

      When Liverpool perform well these players are lauded; praised for their awesome influence on ordinary mortals that made these secondary players perform above their usual level.  

      They may have provided no goals, assists or even any defence-splitting passes, or match-winning tackles, and they may, themselves, have performed decidedly averagely but it will have been them that instigated the win, nonetheless.  

      However, when the result goes badly or the team performs badly, they are exonerated of all blame and it’s as if they weren’t even on the field when the game took place; Lucas, Skrtel, Ngog or another ‘lesser’ player will be the fall guys instead.  

      At the moment, there are three players that are performing well, well below par on a regular basis and have so far – mostly – avoided criticism, or been dropped.

      For so long, Liverpool FC fans have dreamed of a team of Carraghers.  Now, sadly, seeing even one Jamie Carragher in a Liverpool side is an indication that errors may be made and the defence may be shaky.  

      That is not to say that the defensive fragility Liverpool have shown this season is entirely Carragher’s fault; it isn’t, but he has become a shadow of himself in the past 2 months.  

      Whether or not our vice-Captains performances are just a symptom of wider problems or not, the simple fact remains: he needs to be dropped, if not least of all for the good of the team but also for the good of his own confidence.  

      A spell out of the first team – however much he might resent it – can only be good for Carragher’s mental state of mind.  

      For so long he has been un-droppable, and not for a moment is that to suggest that Jamie has let his performance drop through laziness, or feeling overly secure in his position but he has become stale, irritable and when Liverpool come under pressure he is beginning to resemble a wild man; screaming at officials and blaming his team-mates for his own mistakes.  

      He is making more mistakes than usual; showing uncharacteristic lapses in concentration and needs to be taken out of the fray, at least for a few weeks.  

      Give Agger his place back and see what Skrtel and Agger can do together to shore up a leaking defensive line.  At the age Carragher is at now, any serious drop in form could be permanent if left to deteriorate further, and if Agger is not given games soon, we could risk losing them both.

      Secondly, Steven Gerrard needs to take a moment to address what is happening with his performances and his inconsistent form.  One minute, he’s scoring two goals in 10 minutes against Man Utd, the next; he’s going missing for entire games at a time.  

      I’m well aware of Gerrard’s match winning attributes, and if it hadn’t been for his goals in the past 2 league games, the results would’ve looked much worse than they did by the end but had the Captain been performing, marshalling his troops and just generally putting in a good shift himself, then it’s likely that the results would never have needed ‘saving’ in the first place.  

      Now, this is not a slight on Gerrard’s abilities, his value to the team or his status as a genuine, rock-solid world class midfielder but at times last season was perhaps his worst in recent memory and this season has started similarly.  

      If his goals contributions of the past couple of weeks are not to be a wasted catalyst, then our Captain needs to be the man to stand up and be counted, and give the rest of the side – lost, disillusioned and seemingly bereft of guidance as they are at the moment – an example (and one that has, all too often, not been there lately) to follow.

      An alternative to this would be to take the Captaincy away from Gerrard, pass it to another well-respected team-mate; who is capable of leading from the front (or back) – Reina.

      The freedom Gerrard would be given could enable him to concentrate solely on getting his own game back in order. As big and as hard as he may be Gerrard is one of our most mentally fragile players.

      Whatever the reason may be, something is affecting his form, in terms of game-to-game consistency and cannot be allowed to influence the rest of the side by proxy.

      Gerrard is our best player that much is fact but he cannot be allowed to escape criticism; not if we are all to remain in our belief that no man is bigger than the club.

      Finally and perhaps least controversially: Fernando Torres.

      There is not a great deal to be said of Torres recent performances. Simply, the man needs to take a very long, hard look at himself. His performances this season have been somewhere between lame and abysmal; he looks disinterested, stroppy and is beginning to look like he doesn’t want to be here.

      We are all aware that he has had promises made to him (about the signing of top class players) and broken, and he feels lied to but so do we, as fans, yet we haven’t thrown a strop, stopped turning up at the game and cancelled our Sky subscriptions, we’ve remained loyal and tried to stay as optimistic as possible.

      If he wants to leave (for whatever reasons), that is perfectly fine, he should be allowed to leave but there are over 3 months until the January transfer window opens and he needs to start performing like we know he can and stop acting like a spoilt child who hasn’t got his own way.

      We expect more from Fernando, he is one of those few, genuinely decent footballers, or so we can hope. What we don’t need is another Mascherano situation, one drawn out until next year.

      There are those that would argue that Torres’ recent injury problems are the cause of his performances but this would never be in question if our star striker was actually showing any desire to even be on the pitch.

      We have seen a Torres with injury doubts devastate opposition for Liverpool and Spain in the past. A bad performance or two is easy to swallow, what isn’t, is a lack of interest in even showing up; that is unacceptable.

      All three of these players are crucial to Liverpool’s upturn in form, should it materialize. At the moment, all three are playing in the shadow of their own personal issues, all to the detriment of their team and team-mates.

      Being a leader is a privilege for sure, but it is also carries heavy responsibility.  

      You do not get to pick and choose when you lead and when you don’t; just as you can’t take all of the benefits that come with being held in such high regard and then pass the buck on when the blame is being handed out.

      Pretty soon, we are going to need to see a return to expected standards from the three that form the spine of our team, or heads will need to roll.

      http://lINK

      A nice piece.

      A very different view from the intensely popular opinion.

      Now all we need is a fierce and fearless manager.

      Misty
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #1: Sep 27, 2010 11:48:15 pm
      I disagree with large portions of that article.

      Carraghers huge lack of form?
      Come on! Hes the only guy we can rely on to give 100% every game and get the ball away from our goal if Reina doesnt!
      And if he has a bad game he should be dropped from the next? If we applied this to all our players, we would have a different team every game!

      Take the captaincy away from Gerrard?
      For what? he has been better this season than last, and the only driving force of the team at times, commited & talented.
      He does not deserve to have the captaincy taken from him.

      And more pressure on Torres? Just what he needs!
      He has been frustrated with his injuries & lack of service, to put this down to him not wanting to be here anymore is ridiculous- talk about reading too much into it!
      We are all upset, angry & frustrated with the way our team is performing, the results & the owners- just like the players!!
      So why is their commitment questioned and ours is not?
      Torres is as commited to our team as we are, we have no reason to believe otherwise, just media bullshit.

      And as stated at the end of the article- no-one is `passing the buck` every player has said they need to work harder, roll their sleeves up & perfom better.
      chap
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #2: Sep 27, 2010 11:56:14 pm
      I disagree with large portions of that article.

      Carraghers huge lack of form?
      Come on! Hes the only guy we can rely on to give 100% every game and get the ball away from our goal if Reina doesnt!
      And if he has a bad game he should be dropped from the next? If we applied this to all our players, we would have a different team every game!

      Take the captaincy away from Gerrard?
      For what? he has been better this season than last, and the only driving force of the team at times, commited & talented.
      He does not deserve to have the captaincy taken from him.

      And more pressure on Torres? Just what he needs!
      He has been frustrated with his injuries & lack of service, to put this down to him not wanting to be here anymore is ridiculous- talk about reading too much into it!
      We are all upset, angry & frustrated with the way our team is performing, the results & the owners- just like the players!!
      So why is their commitment questioned and ours is not?
      Torres is as commited to our team as we are, we have no reason to believe otherwise, just media bullshit.

      And as stated at the end of the article- no-one is `passing the buck` every player has said they need to work harder, roll their sleeves up & perfom better.

      Spot on
      crouchinho
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #3: Sep 28, 2010 12:31:21 am
      The only thing that article does is look at the biggest names on the list and point blame.

      What's the message here? Thanks for the memories but our standards are rising, even though our club is plummeting. Bullshit.

      The biggest blame lies with the Yanks. Then Broughton and Purslow. Then Woy.

      The players bear some criticism but the main problems in the squad are highlighted by just a couple names - Christian Poulsen, Fabio Aurelio, Paul Konchesky, Ryan Babel and David N'gog for very different reasons.

      Poulsen and Konchesky are no way, and never will be, good payers for this club. IF it weren't for the fortunate appointment of Woy they'd still be at their previously clubs, with one rotting on the sidelines and the other a decent player at the club of his capabilities.

      Fabio Aurelio - we have no money, no left backs and get rejected by an Aston Villa right back, so what do we do? Get him back on a free after releasing him.

      Ryan Babel - whored around by Woy at the start of the season and only here because we can't get a replacement if he leaves. Rafa rejected a 10m offer from Birmingham because he knew he'd get about 2m to replace him.

      And finally David N'gog - i love the lad and think he's come on brilliantly this season, but when the gulf in class from your main striker to your second choice is this great, you have problems. So far he's done a very good job for us and scored important goals, but we need another striker and someone with a bigger reputation (not world class).

      The problem? The problem is the F***ing parasites at the helm.

      Sick of apparent journalists trying to pick at issues when the biggest issue is staring them right in the F***ing face.

      YANKS OUT!
      solodee
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #4: Sep 28, 2010 12:41:56 am
      I disagree with large portions of that article.

      Carraghers huge lack of form?
      Come on! Hes the only guy we can rely on to give 100% every game and get the ball away from our goal if Reina doesnt!
      And if he has a bad game he should be dropped from the next? If we applied this to all our players, we would have a different team every game!

      Take the captaincy away from Gerrard?
      For what? he has been better this season than last, and the only driving force of the team at times, commited & talented.
      He does not deserve to have the captaincy taken from him.

      And more pressure on Torres? Just what he needs!
      He has been frustrated with his injuries & lack of service, to put this down to him not wanting to be here anymore is ridiculous- talk about reading too much into it!
      We are all upset, angry & frustrated with the way our team is performing, the results & the owners- just like the players!!
      So why is their commitment questioned and ours is not?
      Torres is as commited to our team as we are, we have no reason to believe otherwise, just media bullshit.

      And as stated at the end of the article- no-one is `passing the buck` every player has said they need to work harder, roll their sleeves up & perfom better.

      The writer is right in some cases.

      The Carragher issue is a bit fuzzy; I have seen some amazing performances from him; but I do think he needs some bench time. At his age, he may not be able to carry that many games as he is accustomed to. Rafa Benitez had pointed this out.

      Gerrard has put in some A-Class performances this season. I will prefer for him to remain as captain and also play in the hole behind Torres as he is able to make Torres score goals.

      What sickens me is this belief that Torres' underperformance is everyone else's fault. That hurts. That comment, "Torres not getting services" is crap.

      Ngog puts in more heart to the game than Torres right now. Nobody defends him when he does not score by saying he is not getting services; they call him a crap, not-up-to-Liverpool-standard player.

      We the fans need to start telling the truth.
      JD
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #5: Sep 28, 2010 12:50:52 am
      Who wrote this unsourced article?
      Dadorious
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #6: Sep 28, 2010 12:53:45 am
      Is this written by Jamie Kanwar???

      Torres is being called stroppy and lazy yet has had a hand in the last 5 league goals we scored.

      The article should address the F***ing mediocre players that surround these 2 (Torres and Gerrard) and the fact that in the space of 2 years we have replaced 50 million worth of midfield talent with 14 million whilst expecting the same results.

      I do agree with the Carragher assessment yes he he is all heart and all Liverpool but is just too error prone and unstable to be number one on the team sheet every week.
      solodee
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #7: Sep 28, 2010 12:59:54 am

      The biggest blame lies with the Yanks. Then Broughton and Purslow. Then Woy.

      (The usual suspects - BUT Woy? Ridiculous!)

      The players bear some criticism but the main problems in the squad are highlighted by just a couple names - Christian Poulsen, Fabio Aurelio, Paul Konchesky, Ryan Babel and David N'gog for very different reasons.

      (Just like the article pointed out - The victims)

      And finally David N'gog - I love the lad and think he's come on brilliantly this season, but when the gulf in class from your main striker to your second choice is this great, you have problems. So far he's done a very good job for us and scored important goals, but we need another striker and someone with a bigger reputation (not world class).

      (Yawn! Why is it so hard to see that Torres has been receiving all the services he required plus a fat pay check to go with it but he is underperforming?)

      The problem? The problem is the f**king parasites at the helm.

      (Everyone knows that, this article is more about having played six games, won one, lost two and you know the rest - and what some blind-spot residing problems may be)


      Ngog deserves more credit.
      solodee
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #8: Sep 28, 2010 01:01:48 am
      Who wrote this unsourced article?


      David Tyrer
      Dadorious
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #9: Sep 28, 2010 01:04:56 am
      To say Torres has been receiving all the service is pure F***ing ignorance.

      What service down the wings, from the centre?? He single handedly created the 2 goals against Sunderland our most potent striker turned into provider and even did the right wingers job in setting up the second. Did you not see this??

      I think people need to stop reading into the sh*te Sky writes about this club so much.
      Singh_YNWA
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #10: Sep 28, 2010 01:09:37 am
      Harsh on N'gog
      solodee
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #11: Sep 28, 2010 01:20:25 am
      To say Torres has been receiving all the service is pure f**king ignorance.

      What service down the wings, from the centre?? He single handedly created the 2 goals against Sunderland our most potent striker turned into provider and even did the right wingers job in setting up the second. Did you not see this??


      The same services that our scoring-N'gog gets!

      I watched Torres dribble everyone from Reina's post to the opponent's post only to pass the ball to someone else to score; twice. This borders on sycophancy. The underlined comment is so wrong!

       
      Del Boca Vista
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #12: Sep 28, 2010 01:51:26 am
      I haven't been a fan of Carra's psychotic looking yelling at everyone, it's good to have vocal leaders but it's another thing when they actually look a little stressed and they're not yelling for passion but maybe fear of losing, fear of getting older. Do I recall correctly he signed a new FOUR year contract? How does this happen? I would like to see Martin and Danny line up for a few games in a row.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #13: Sep 28, 2010 02:09:10 am
      No player should beyond reproach.  I'm a firm believer that you're only as good as your last game.  It's all fine & dandy praising players when they have great games, but no player should be immune to criticism, in fact I'm fairly sure great players are able to admit when they've had stinkers. 
      bigvYNWA
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #14: Sep 28, 2010 03:01:59 am
      Every player needs to step up, not just these three.
      Mr Bleeds
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #15: Sep 28, 2010 03:14:05 am
      I agree to an extent with parts of it, concerning the form of a couple of the players but not the fact that the burden of critisism should be laid at the players' feet for the teams performance.

      I believe we honestly need to be on the look out for a top quality CB in the mould of Sami Hyypia - big ask. Carragher is/was a solid center half who was perfectly complemented by Hyypia. It says a lot about Sami's game IMO that made Carragher look world class when in fact I'd say he was more prone to be catergorised as a solid reliable center back. Ever since the big Finn's departure Carra IMO has been exposed which really shows how important a position CB is in terms of combinations (pairs) at the heart of the defence. I'm not taking anything away from Carragher it's just the way I see it, and playing alongside someone more naive -Skertel or someone witout the aerial ability and physical presence - Agger it leaves Carragher with too much responsibility which I think has affected his own game. Turner of Sunderland is the kind of CB (the one Rafa wanted) we could do with, a similar version albeit younger to Sami, I've watched him on numerous occasions and the bloke is top draw. He made a world class last ditch tackle against us on Saturday when facing his own goal and when N'gog I think it was looked odds on favourite to get on the end of the ball and score, Turner somehow managed to slide in and get his foot on the ball and knock it behind for a corner. Neither Skertel or Agger fill me with the confidence either one of Carra, Henchoz or Hyypia did and it seems now it is affecting Carragher's game, plus the fact he is knocking on too. Also the marauding runs of Johnson going forward too have left Carragher sometimes exposed to a roasting or fumbling.

      If Roy could get the whole team defending as a proper unit again I don't think we'd look so vulnrable at the back and Carra would get away with it but individually their are some errors creeping into his game.

      Re - Gerrard, the bloke (this season) is talking bollox I don't know what more he expects from our captain last season was different but this season Gerrard IMO has been one of a few who has 'given it a go'. He may not be as consistent with his game as he used to be but it's also worth remembering Gerrard isn't getting any younger either and the days of him being superman are fading. Which is why I think seeing him back in the engine room sitting more, gauging his runs, spreading the ball about and bringing those bone crunching tackles back into his game is a good thing for him physcially. Gerrard was critised last season as I believe his head dropped under the previous manager's regime - but I think he's up for it this year and Roy's man-managment style would suit the 'mentally fragile' lad down to a Tee.

      Torres I'm in two minds about, petulance and stroppy-ness along with a negative body language is what we are witnessing at the moment from him and he may well be frustrated for a number of reasons; reasons being his service or lack of, to off field promises being broken, who knows. Which in turn has possibly impacted on his own game, his touch and turn isn't there at the moment for me like we've seen in the past - is he on the verge of burnout or is he finding his way back to form after injury? There are too many questions for me concerning Torres but one thing I do know is that he is a world class striker where class is permanent and form is temporary, he'd be in my starting eleven no matter what (so long as he isn't injured) because Torres like all top class strikers can appear almost anonomus for 89 minutes of a match and pop up with a winning goal in the game and get you three points (Aston Villa -away last season). Thus, I think Torres can be fairly crititised for his performances, not like the way that tw@t Redknapp went on the other day. He like anyone else isn't beyond critisim - but for what he's done and for what he's capable of people (myself included) will probably tend to be easier on him in comparison to Lucas, N'gog or whomever because we know he IS CAPABLE, HE IS GOOD ENOUGH and can be afforded a blip in form, where as some of his teamates seem constant in their blip re their ability.
      « Last Edit: Sep 28, 2010 03:25:48 am by Mr Bleeds »
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #16: Sep 28, 2010 03:25:04 am
      Bullshit Alert!!

      Start blaming Torres for various problems before he's sold next summer.

      And the whitewashing continues.

      Where was this sh*te last season when Gerrard sulked his way through large parts of it?
      crouchinho
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #17: Sep 28, 2010 06:47:38 am

      I give him immense credit and always back him to the hilt when he plays. I'm a big fan of his. Just stating the obvious and highlighting we need another striker, someone who is of a higher class to fit in.
      CRK
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #18: Sep 28, 2010 06:57:27 am
      Every player needs to step up, not just these three.

      Where was this sh*te last season when Gerrard sulked his way through large parts of it?

      Yes and yes.

      Couldn't really say much more than that. .
      TheKopite*****
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #19: Sep 28, 2010 07:04:37 am
      The only thing that article does is look at the biggest names on the list and point blame.

      What's the message here? Thanks for the memories but our standards are rising, even though our club is plummeting. Bullshit.

      The biggest blame lies with the Yanks. Then Broughton and Purslow. Then Woy.

      The players bear some criticism but the main problems in the squad are highlighted by just a couple names - Christian Poulsen, Fabio Aurelio, Paul Konchesky, Ryan Babel and David N'gog for very different reasons.

      Poulsen and Konchesky are no way, and never will be, good payers for this club. IF it weren't for the fortunate appointment of Woy they'd still be at their previously clubs, with one rotting on the sidelines and the other a decent player at the club of his capabilities.

      Fabio Aurelio - we have no money, no left backs and get rejected by an Aston Villa right back, so what do we do? Get him back on a free after releasing him.

      Ryan Babel - whored around by Woy at the start of the season and only here because we can't get a replacement if he leaves. Rafa rejected a 10m offer from Birmingham because he knew he'd get about 2m to replace him.

      And finally David N'gog - I love the lad and think he's come on brilliantly this season, but when the gulf in class from your main striker to your second choice is this great, you have problems. So far he's done a very good job for us and scored important goals, but we need another striker and someone with a bigger reputation (not world class).

      The problem? The problem is the f**king parasites at the helm.

      Sick of apparent journalists trying to pick at issues when the biggest issue is staring them right in the f**king face.

      YANKS OUT!

      This
      Brian78
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #20: Sep 28, 2010 08:29:48 am
      Ok so you take the 2 local heroes and the main man and say everything is there fault. Smart!

      Yes the form could be better from all 3 but Carra isnt exactly a disaster back there. My only gripe with him is the long balls he loves to play to nobody rather then keep the ball. Hes 32 now as well he aint going to be same player he was 5 years ago.

      Torres is miles off his best form but it isnt his fault were 16th. Every striker goes through spells of being off form it wont last. In fact his goal had it stood Saturday was a belter and the sign of his class. I will love it when rams the words of his detractors down there throats.

      We are more indebted to Gerrard then maybe any other player in history yet it seems hes always the obvious target when things arent going well. He cant be superman every week. And as Huyton pointed out why was an article not written last season about him when he was clearly sulking.

      Bullsh*t article. The team as a whole are at fault for the postion were in, including management.
      emsy28
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #21: Sep 28, 2010 09:05:10 am
      The only part of that bullsh*t article that has any truth is the part on Carragher,he has been struggling of late.
      I am one of the few that thinks its time to give Skirtel and Agger a run together.
      kb2x
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #22: Sep 28, 2010 09:12:23 am
      As I have said in the "Is Roy The Right Man Thread"

      Roy picks the  team, the tactics, he motivates the lads, and yet they still cannot be arsed

      So I'd tell the whole 11, their places are under threat

      There are only 3 players at this present time who are giving their all EVERY game


      And thats Carragher, Lucas and Agger - when these lads have played, they have shown the hunger that is required at this football club, all the rest need to step up a gear!

      With our "overstaffed" squad there are plenty of replacements from the reserves, subs etc.
      carheex
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #23: Sep 28, 2010 09:21:18 am
      Do we support LFC or Fernando Torres? I keep hearing/reading that "Torres" has been lied to about signings. With all due respect, why is anyone discussing transfers with him at all? The club doesn't need to pander to "his" requirements and sign players to keep "him" happy. Don't get me wrong, I think he has been an excellent signing and when on form is one of the top strikers in the world but he needs to know his place. I don't see any one else in the squad sulking about signings and they have just as much right to do so as FT does. Looks to me like he thinks he's bigger than club and THAT could be what's wrong with LFC!
      carheex
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #24: Sep 28, 2010 09:22:15 am
      The only part of that bullsh*t article that has any truth is the part on Carragher,he has been struggling of late.
      I am one of the few that thinks its time to give Skirtel and Agger a run together.


      Why "mr average" Skrtel? Kyrgiakos is far superior.
      carheex
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #25: Sep 28, 2010 09:23:35 am

      Do we support LFC or Fernando Torres? I keep hearing/reading that "Torres" has been lied to about signings. With all due respect, why is anyone discussing transfers with him at all? The club doesn't need to pander to "his" requirements and sign players to keep "him" happy. He is contracted to play football, not manage the team. Don't get me wrong, I think he has been an excellent signing and when on form is one of the top strikers in the world but he needs to know his place. I don't see any one else in the squad sulking about signings and they have just as much right to do so as FT does. Looks to me like he thinks he's bigger than club and THAT could be what's wrong with LFC!
      « Last Edit: Sep 28, 2010 09:31:18 am by carheex »
      bigvYNWA
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #26: Sep 28, 2010 09:29:53 am
      the rpibelem fo the squad. hicks m gillt.yeah
      carheex
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #27: Sep 28, 2010 09:30:11 am
      Bullshit Alert!!

      Start blaming Torres for various problems before he's sold next summer.

      And the whitewashing continues.

      Where was this sh*te last season when Gerrard sulked his way through large parts of it?

      The difference is, Gerrard has been at the club his whole life and is more entitled that anyone to have a dip in form and be depressed about what is going on. Torres has only been here 5 minutes and needs to pay his dues before he starts sulking and asking for changes. If only a handful of the rumours about Torres are true then we've got a right little primadonna on our hands and that's the last thing we need when we're up against it.
      carheex
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #28: Sep 28, 2010 09:30:46 am
      the rpibelem fo the squad. hicks m gillt.yeah

      a bit early to start drinking isn't it?
      kb2x
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #29: Sep 28, 2010 09:43:45 am
      Spamming?
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #30: Sep 28, 2010 10:25:01 am
      If you're going to write stuff like this then at least have the balls to put your name to it !!!
      ozi_wozzy
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #31: Sep 28, 2010 10:30:25 am
      I disagree with large portions of that article.

      Carraghers huge lack of form?
      Come on! Hes the only guy we can rely on to give 100% every game and get the ball away from our goal if Reina doesnt!
      And if he has a bad game he should be dropped from the next? If we applied this to all our players, we would have a different team every game!

      Take the captaincy away from Gerrard?
      For what? he has been better this season than last, and the only driving force of the team at times, commited & talented.
      He does not deserve to have the captaincy taken from him.

      And more pressure on Torres? Just what he needs!
      He has been frustrated with his injuries & lack of service, to put this down to him not wanting to be here anymore is ridiculous- talk about reading too much into it!
      We are all upset, angry & frustrated with the way our team is performing, the results & the owners- just like the players!!
      So why is their commitment questioned and ours is not?
      Torres is as commited to our team as we are, we have no reason to believe otherwise, just media bullshit.

      And as stated at the end of the article- no-one is `passing the buck` every player has said they need to work harder, roll their sleeves up & perfom better.

      say it like it is ms :)

      completely agree, nothing else to add to this. the only thing i would say is that carra isn't getting any younger and agger/skrtl partnership is the future but that's perhaps next season to start thinking about that.
      corballyred
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #32: Sep 28, 2010 11:16:37 am
      The problem with the squad is two words Roy Hodgson
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #33: Sep 28, 2010 11:32:12 am
      The problem with the squad is lack of investment.

      I said the same in Rafa's tenure and I'll say the same in Roy's.

      Keeping hold of the spine of your team is a must if you want to be successful, by keeping hold of the spine of the squad you get to add better players to the squad every transfer window, thus your spine grows and becomes stronger, gives all your players a lift and breeds a winners mentality.

      When players from the spine of your squad are lost and replaced with inferior players and no significant investment materialises to strengthen in other areas it breeds negativity, this negativity is made worse when as a team your making a net profit in the transfer window and making your squad as a whole weaker.

      Roy has to take some of the blame as he has got some good players at his disposal and it's his duty to pick the team select his tactics and make do the best he can with the hand he has been dealt.

      The players have to take their fair shame of the blame as when they cross that white line onto the pitch its up to them to put in a shift and give us a performance that reflects their talents.

      But overall the Blame lies Firmly at Tom & Georges feet as we would not be looking to blame any one else had investment not been witheld over the last 5 transfer windows.

      Add Roys net spend to the last 4 windows under Rafa our average transfer window net spend is around £2m net.

      Is that good enough for any club with Domestic and European ambitions ?

      That is where the problem lies overall.
      « Last Edit: Sep 28, 2010 11:41:40 am by RedLFCBlood »
      little-Luis:)
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #34: Sep 28, 2010 01:03:43 pm
      I would nearly give the captaincy to Reina permanently, he has all the attributes for it. It's not out of dis-respect for gerrard, I see it as less of a burden for him. He already is carrying the club. I see it as a weight off of his shoulders. Look at how Sami played after the captaincy was taken off of him, played much better
      solodee
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #35: Sep 28, 2010 05:27:34 pm
      If you're going to write stuff like this then at least have the balls to put your name to it !!!

      THE writer
      bigvYNWA
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #36: Sep 28, 2010 05:35:36 pm
      a bit early to start drinking isn't it?

      Well being that im in the USA, it was about right :D

      I think i was trying to say the problem is the owners.. but that article is a bit of a sh*t-stir. Heaping the pressure on those players particularly is just giving the others a pass. We need ALL players to improve as a collective, thats the way we will improve. Especially Torres, he aint gonna improve and stop sulking or whatever the article says if he aint got good, creative play around him to feed off.

      Adryan
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #37: Sep 28, 2010 05:53:04 pm
      The main and root of all problems are definitely the owners and their lack of investment.

      Under these two yanks, Rafa did make poor signings or throw alot of money on average players but that's because he was in the rebuilding process in his first few, probably five years. So, surely he's had to pay money and he had very little choice but to go for quantity and not the best quality. For example, he probably let go 2-3 players a summer and it's probably too risky to actually buy one. (You lose three, and gain one). Also, with the rate how Chelsea, Real Madrid, Man United and now Man City inflate prices, it was not easy to replace those 2-3 or even one player with a player(s) of better quality.

      Without going too much into that part of the topic, this then leads to probably a weaker bench and if the main starting eleven suffers any kind of problems (injuries, suspensions and etc.), their replacements can't do their job effectively and as a result, our performances and subsequently results, suffer. This not only effect those, but probably the mentality of the players as well.

      Obviously, the manager and the players have to take the blame as well but there's just so much a manager can do and for the players, not easy because expectations will always be high because they are representing the biggest club in the world. Whether they are fit to represent Liverpool FC, is another story.

      In short, if we had no ownership and investment issues, there probably would be much, MUCH happier squad and everything else will look better and this article probably won't be here!
      PepeReina25
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #38: Sep 28, 2010 06:35:16 pm
      I disagree with large portions of that article.

      Carraghers huge lack of form?
      Come on! Hes the only guy we can rely on to give 100% every game and get the ball away from our goal if Reina doesnt!
      And if he has a bad game he should be dropped from the next? If we applied this to all our players, we would have a different team every game!

      Take the captaincy away from Gerrard?
      For what? he has been better this season than last, and the only driving force of the team at times, commited & talented.
      He does not deserve to have the captaincy taken from him.

      And more pressure on Torres? Just what he needs!
      He has been frustrated with his injuries & lack of service, to put this down to him not wanting to be here anymore is ridiculous- talk about reading too much into it!
      We are all upset, angry & frustrated with the way our team is performing, the results & the owners- just like the players!!
      So why is their commitment questioned and ours is not?
      Torres is as commited to our team as we are, we have no reason to believe otherwise, just media bullshit.

      And as stated at the end of the article- no-one is `passing the buck` every player has said they need to work harder, roll their sleeves up & perfom better.
      Spot on! what's the point in dropping our best players, when we have no one close to replacing them! It's ridiculous
      red trooper
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #39: Sep 28, 2010 07:55:11 pm
      The problem with the squad is two owners who give americans a bad name and their cronies ,sort them out and the rest will fall into place i'm sure .I think the senior players we all rely on week in week out love the club so much that the pressure to do well in difficult times causes errors in judgement ,when the team start to play well again they will rise to the occasion i feel .
      Misty
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #40: Sep 28, 2010 07:56:39 pm
      The problem with the squad is two owners who give americans a bad name and their cronies ,sort them out and the rest will fall into place I'm sure .I think the senior players we all rely on week in week out love the club so much that the pressure to do well in difficult times causes errors in judgement ,when the team start to play well again they will rise to the occasion I feel .

      here here!
      All comes down to getting the the yanks out!
      johnlfcreds2010
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #41: Sep 28, 2010 08:07:40 pm
      Don't agree with this article
      I heard similar stuff about sammy but he can still do a good job and i hope he returns one day to help coach our defence.
      One thing about carra is , you never see him sulking or not trying and also lets be honest the boys been a lot busier recently because the team hasn't played well.
      You might be able to drift out of the game on the wing but you can't do that in defence.
      If you are constantly having to defend , you're going to make a mistake sooner or later.
      The team needs to attack more and give a breather to our over worked defence.
      GERNS
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #42: Sep 28, 2010 09:52:48 pm
      It's no surprise Torres and Gerrard look pissed off sometimes. When you look at the squads of Mun U, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and now even Spurs. There are a lot more quality individuals in those squads than we have in ours. After all the promises. we get to see these other teams pass us by in terms of buying power and we get what you might call second tier players, some on free transfers just to try and keep pace. Exasperation does set in when you are not getting players alond side you, to perform at the same level as yourself. Even in kids football, get one or two weaker players in a side and the better players soon get fed up with the lack of coherance or fluidity in their play.  We do have a few better technical players this year in Maxi and Mereiles but they need time to come to terrms with the pace ofthe prem. Then we have Poulson who doesn't look at the moment like he ever will. Johnson would be more effective as a right mid fielder, Ngog, Lucas and Babel along with Poulson, just not top drawer.  We don't have a team all working on the same level.  We've got a few Rolls Royces, but a lot more Ford Fiestas than the other top teams.  I'm not a lover of Roy Hodgeson, but whoever was manager, Investment in the squad is necessary and we just haven't had it. Fergie says Rafa spent more than Utd over the last four years on players. The difference is Fergie is able to splash out £ 30 odd million on one player to strengthen an already expensive squad. Rafa only got £ 30 mill in dribs and drabs and was only ever able to compete for players in the 8 and 10 mill bracket apart from Torres. Pretty ordinary players as we have found out. Only serious investment in the squad will change the attitude of the top players, when they have team mates  playing and thinking and seeing on the same level. I'm a bricky by trade and I'd get seriously pissed off if the bricky on the other end of the line was laying 25% less than me, and then I had to go and tidy his work up as well. It's not just about effort, it's about ability and effort combined. New owners with decent investment will make all the difference. Not just to the club, but to the attitude of all the top players. It's a natural human reaction, you can only put up with working with lesser individuals for so long before it effects your enthusiasm. Don't lets  attack the players when we full know where the problems manifest from.
      solodee
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #43: Sep 28, 2010 10:55:12 pm
      It's no surprise Torres and Gerrard look pissed off sometimes. When you look at the squads of Mun U, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and now even Spurs.  

      Read your post.

      I never get into the transfer funds arguments. But it seems we the fans sum up the entirety of Rafa's reign and the lack of transfer funds to the H&G era of 2007 to date. People seem to forget that Gerrard and Carragher are the only survivors of the team Rafa inherited from Houllier.

      How many players have moved in and out since 2004 - 2010? Compare that with the other teams if you want to compare strength of squad. It might reveal some other facts we all avoid.

      Arsenal should not even be included in the list of Teams who have invested more and better than Liverpool FC seeing that a lot of their players were Academy products and Bargain basement players.

      What happened to our Academy why are players not making it into the first team? seeing that the Academy had received good investment?

      Concerning Torres, I hope he start banging in goals again. His number is on my Jersey. We all, however, need to stop deceiving ourselves and blaming his dipped form on the lack of quality to feed off. That is crap. That is like blaming everyone else for his situation. When N'gog underperforms, N'gog is sh*t; but when Torres underperforms, the remaining eight players on the pitch are crap. That is disgusting.
       
      « Last Edit: Sep 28, 2010 11:07:46 pm by solodee »
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #44: Sep 29, 2010 12:34:43 am
      The difference is, Gerrard has been at the club his whole life and is more entitled that anyone to have a dip in form and be depressed about what is going on. Torres has only been here 5 minutes and needs to pay his dues before he starts sulking and asking for changes. If only a handful of the rumours about Torres are true then we've got a right little primadonna on our hands and that's the last thing we need when we're up against it.

      Funny that lad, seeing as Gerrard's been here all his life and Torres has only been here five minutes, how come along with Reina who's only been here ten minutes, those two FOREIGNERS have actually spoken out continuously about the owners and the problems they are causing the club yet the club captain who's been here his whole life still keeps his gob firmly shut?

      And what is your problem or should that be agenda, with Torres?
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #45: Sep 29, 2010 03:16:54 am
      Arsenal should not even be included in the list of Teams who have invested more and better than Liverpool FC seeing that a lot of their players were Academy products and Bargain basement players.

      Bollocks.

      Arsenal produce less academy kids than most sides in the League. They simply pinch kids from other clubs (Fabregas from Barcelona, Walcott from Southampton, Ramsey from Cardiff, Van Persie from Feyenoord, Vela from whichever Mexican side he came from, Clichy from whichever French side he came from) and then they try and make out they have a great set of kids. They don't, they just pinch players from other clubs.

      With the exception of Ashley Cole, they haven't produced a real regular in their side in the last decade. Their great youth system was in effect in the late 80s early 90s with Merson, Adams, Parlour, Davis (probably a regular by the mid 80s to be fair), Rocastle all breaking through.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #46: Sep 29, 2010 03:41:13 am
      Bollocks.

      Arsenal produce less academy kids than most sides in the League. They simply pinch kids from other clubs (Fabregas from Barcelona, Walcott from Southampton, Ramsey from Cardiff, Van Persie from Feyenoord, Vela from whichever Mexican side he came from, Clichy from whichever French side he came from) and then they try and make out they have a great set of kids. They don't, they just pinch players from other clubs.

      With the exception of Ashley Cole, they haven't produced a real regular in their side in the last decade. Their great youth system was in effect in the late 80s early 90s with Merson, Adams, Parlour, Davis (probably a regular by the mid 80s to be fair), Rocastle all breaking through.

      Complete correct, I was saying this last season to deaf ears, when they had one player in their 1st team squad & not sent out on loan.  Mind you, some of Wenger's Kids paid off big style, lets hope we start to see some of the youth product broght in by Rafa make it.
      Dadorious
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #47: Sep 29, 2010 04:46:10 am
      Bollocks.

      Arsenal produce less academy kids than most sides in the League. They simply pinch kids from other clubs (Fabregas from Barcelona, Walcott from Southampton, Ramsey from Cardiff, Van Persie from Feyenoord, Vela from whichever Mexican side he came from, Clichy from whichever French side he came from) and then they try and make out they have a great set of kids. They don't, they just pinch players from other clubs.

      With the exception of Ashley Cole, they haven't produced a real regular in their side in the last decade. Their great youth system was in effect in the late 80s early 90s with Merson, Adams, Parlour, Davis (probably a regular by the mid 80s to be fair), Rocastle all breaking through.

      Could not agree more.

      Bloody tired of hearing this theory from Arsenal fans and football "experts" alike.

      Look at some of their starting 11 this season Almunia, Sagna, Vermalen, Konscielny/Squilaci, Rosicky,Nasri, Arshavin, Van Persie, Chamakh were all purchased as allready experienced players at their respective clubs. That would only leave Song, Denilson, Gibbs, Fabregas, Clichy and Walcott the last 3 who were poached from other clubs.
      crouchinho
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #48: Sep 29, 2010 05:10:23 am
      Song and Denilson were poached, also.

      He has an eye for spotting talent young, that cannot be questioned, but do Arsenal develop them? Hardly, in the grand scheme of things.
      solodee
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #49: Sep 29, 2010 06:18:23 am
      Bollocks.

      Arsenal produce less academy kids than most sides in the League. They simply pinch kids from other clubs (Fabregas from Barcelona, Walcott from Southampton, Ramsey from Cardiff, Van Persie from Feyenoord, Vela from whichever Mexican side he came from, Clichy from whichever French side he came from) and then they try and make out they have a great set of kids. They don't, they just pinch players from other clubs.

      With the exception of Ashley Cole, they haven't produced a real regular in their side in the last decade. Their great youth system was in effect in the late 80s early 90s with Merson, Adams, Parlour, Davis (probably a regular by the mid 80s to be fair), Rocastle all breaking through.

      Rubbish

      How many of the pinched and stolen players went straight into the first team? Bottom line? Liverpool FC has spent more than Arsenal in the past six years we still claim that they still have a better team than us?

      And while we are on the topic, Where did Pacheco, and all the other young lads come from? Our Academy?

      Their 25-man squad; most spent their youth years in Arsenal

      Could not agree more.

      Look at some of their starting 11 this season Almunia, Sagna, Vermalen, Konscielny/Squilaci, Rosicky,Nasri, Arshavin, Van Persie, Chamakh were all purchased as allready experienced players at their respective clubs. That would only leave Song, Denilson, Gibbs, Fabregas, Clichy and Walcott the last 3 who were poached from other clubs.

      Nasir was a youth player much like Pacheco; he was getting to be some sort of an impact sub at Marseilleand developed before Arsenal bought him; Chamackh came on a free transfer.

      Moreover, if any of the Arsenal players mentioned was at Liverpool FC, as long as they're not Torres or Gerrard, they would be labelled as sh*t.



      « Last Edit: Sep 29, 2010 06:48:04 am by solodee »
      brezipool
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #50: Sep 29, 2010 08:43:30 am
      I agree with most of the original post.

      you have to look at the Europa results, to see we can perform perfectly well without the likes of Carra, Gerrard & Torres.

      We place too much importance on these guys sometimes, and we unjustly criticise them for having off days. We also expect too much from them.

      But on the other hand some of the other players failed miserably in the carling cup, so some are for sure not good enough.

      But at the end of the day we have we have, some excllent world class players and some very very good players, backed up by some good youngsters and and some average joes.
      carheex
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #51: Sep 29, 2010 08:48:29 am
      Funny that lad, seeing as Gerrard's been here all his life and Torres has only been here five minutes, how come along with Reina who's only been here ten minutes, those two FOREIGNERS have actually spoken out continuously about the owners and the problems they are causing the club yet the club captain who's been here his whole life still keeps his gob firmly shut?



      What has that got to do with my posts, "lad"? I think you're missing the point.
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #52: Sep 29, 2010 02:03:58 pm
      Rubbish

      How many of the pinched and stolen players went straight into the first team? Bottom line? Liverpool FC has spent more than Arsenal in the past six years we still claim that they still have a better team than us?

      And while we are on the topic, Where did Pacheco, and all the other young lads come from? Our Academy?

      Their 25-man squad; most spent their youth years in Arsenal

      No Pacheco did not come through our academy. He's a product of Barcelona's. As for how many went straight into the first team, so what? Clichy, Van Persie, Walcott, Ramsey to name but four were all playing first team football before they joined Arsenal. It's like us trying to claim Wilson and Shelvey are products of our youth system because they haven't went straight into the first team.

      Truth is, Arsenal don't have a great set of kids. They pinch lads from other clubs across the globe and try and pass them off as their own products. Moreover I'm sick and tired of hearing how Arsenal have such a young side when the vast majority of their starting XI are experienced players.

      Have we spent more than Arsenal over the last couple of years? Yeah we have. Do we have a batter side than Arsenal? Some would say we do. Possibly with the exception being the wide areas. But give me our spine over theirs any day.
      racerx34
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #53: Sep 29, 2010 06:43:25 pm
      What a bullshit article. Should we take it now that whispers will continue against our big players, in an attempt to turn some naive fans, and aid their exit in coming transfer windows.

      I'll tell you what our squad problems are.


      Between 50 - 70 million worth of midfield talent shipped out in two summers.

      Replaced by about 16 million worth of 'talent'.
      Do the F***ing math.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #54: Sep 29, 2010 08:05:35 pm
      What has that got to do with my posts, "lad"? I think you're missing the point.

      And that was?
      SaveLiverpoolFC
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #55: Sep 29, 2010 11:15:07 pm
      I think anyone with an ounce of common sense can deduce that our ONLY problem is the club has been hijacked by utter fraudulent scum. Vermin who have asset stripped our playing staff, acted like tyrants against a legendary manager and sacked him. Then  replaced him with a talentless gimp.

      The idea that its the players fault is just garbage and the sort of thing that would be penned in Hicks' office. Such crap doesn't deserve the oxygen of publicity. Its the future of our club at stake.

      PS why do some of the posters phrases look SOOOOO much like Jamie Kanwanker?
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #56: Sep 29, 2010 11:20:21 pm
      Why do people constantly throw Wenger up against Rafa when debating ?

      The fact of the matter is, Rafa was more successful than Wenger in terms of Silverware over the the same time period since Rafa landed on English soil, so the comparisons are fugile.
      solodee
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #57: Sep 29, 2010 11:55:26 pm
      No Pacheco did not come through our academy. He's a product of Barcelona's. As for how many went straight into the first team, so what? Clichy, Van Persie, Walcott, Ramsey to name but four were all playing first team football before they joined Arsenal. It's like us trying to claim Wilson and Shelvey are products of our youth system because they haven't went straight into the first team.

      Truth is, Arsenal don't have a great set of kids. They pinch lads from other clubs across the globe and try and pass them off as their own products. Moreover I'm sick and tired of hearing how Arsenal have such a young side when the vast majority of their starting XI are experienced players.

      Have we spent more than Arsenal over the last couple of years? Yeah we have. Do we have a batter side than Arsenal? Some would say we do. Possibly with the exception being the wide areas. But give me our spine over theirs any day.
      Why do people constantly throw Wenger up against Rafa when debating ?

      The fact of the matter is, Rafa was more successful than Wenger in terms of Silverware over the the same time period since Rafa landed on English soil, so the comparisons are fugile.

      My point is this - We can talk about Chelsea, Man City, Man U and say Tottenham as teams that were better funded during Rafa's reign.

      We should, however not include Arsenal in the group as, personally, I believe we have a better squad than Arsenal's as we have spent more than Arsenal.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #58: Sep 30, 2010 12:04:47 am

      We should, however not include Arsenal in the group as, personally, I believe we have a better squad than Arsenal's as we have spent more than Arsenal.

      Why not Wenger has been at Arsenal 14 years and has had time to build his youth facilities and build 3 or 4 good teams within that time.

      Rafa had six years to build and moul;d the team he wanted 3 of those years being underfunded.
      wallbanger
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #59: Sep 30, 2010 02:22:42 am
      i agree with this opinion myself and players who put in dismal performances should be benched for a time. you cannot pick players on last years form the time is the present what have they done this season is whats important.  you cannot reward players for that it sends out the wrong message favoutism they call it. it ruins team morale and upsets chemistry. other players will; say why should i put in 100% if stevie goes missing for a game or two 
      SaveLiverpoolFC
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      Re: Could this be the problem with the squad?
      Reply #60: Sep 30, 2010 08:48:18 am
      If you're going to write stuff like this then at least have the balls to put your name to it !!!

      Exactly and I'm criticised when I ask whether he's part of the Purslow pr gang...
      One of the most pathetic articles I've read in a while..

      "Lets sell Gerrard and Torres". What a pathetic and offensive article.

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