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      Debate: Johnson On The Wing

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      crouchinho
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      Re: Debate: Johnson On The Wing
      Reply #69: Sep 28, 2010 04:36:25 pm
      Anyone remember when Carra was at RB last year while Glen was hurt? Didn't we have a great defensive run around that time? that could definitely get our best 3 defenders in the team at once. We would definitely suffer for pace at the position, no doubt, but I don't remember it hurting u's too much last year. This is for those who don't think Kelly is ready for premiership action (he certainly hasn't acquitted himself very well recently).

      Just a thought. I want to see the dagger + skrtel combo, with the Greek god playing against the set piece/hoofing teams.

      9 clean sheets in a row without Johnson in the side.

      Just sharing a stat. Not picking at Johnson.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Debate: Johnson On The Wing
      Reply #70: Sep 28, 2010 04:38:05 pm
      I see that from full backs twenty or thirty times a game, jaysus how he can be blamed for that is madness. Reina was solely top blame for this, awful goalkeeping mistake from a legend.

      It was an awful mistake from Reina mate I agree.

      How ever I still believe Johnson was at fault, your a man down in the closing stages of a game, your hanging onto a 1-0 lead, clear your lines put the ball into row Z or put your foot through it and put into the corner flag make the opposition build from the back again.

      Johnson tried to play it of Rosicky (bearing in mind Johnson was in possession of the ball) in line with our own 18 yard line it did not come off, he invited pressure with what he done and the goal came about as a direct result of that throw in he conceded cheaply and only Glen can be held accountable for that.
      vitez
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      Re: Debate: Johnson On The Wing
      Reply #71: Sep 28, 2010 04:39:12 pm
      1) supply, simple. we don't cross the ball enough into the box either from byline, from deep or anywhere near the penalty area. we are playing a lot of long balls and through balls through the middle, which is easily defendable.
      2) if wingers move out wide more, they will pull out defenders with them, creating space for more movement and through balls. the reason why we're losing posession easily is that the middle of the park is often packed with maxi/kuyt/babel/cole coming inside a lot during games.
      3) absolutely. when we played an attacking game with riera and kuyt playing wide with torres being supported by gerrard during the 08/09 season, we were playing great stuff.
      4) all good wingers move in or track back to help out defensively. i would hope that wingers stay wide and attack when we have posession and defend when we don't.

      i'm not attacking your opinions mate, i take your points and some of them make sense. i just prefer a traditional 4-4-2 with wide players providing options. at the moment, we look like a stale, dull, defensive side who give the ball away easily and do not provide enough chances for torres.

      1) Although you didn't answer the question, you did provide me with enough insight as to your reasoning.  Agreed, we need to attack more from the flanks, but I still firmly believe our best players are central and as such the majority of our attack should be focused on coming from the middle.  For anyone who's interested, crossing from the byline works better for players whose strength is movement/positioning/agility (eg. Torres for us), crossing from deep is better for static/stronger/heading players (eg. Crouch for Spurs).  Agree 100% that we shouldn't try nearly as many through and long balls as we currently do because we simply don't have the type of players who can pick them out and execute them successfully.
      2) The same is also true of wingbacks who move out wide more.  We're not losing possession easily because the middle of the park is packed, we're losing possession because we aren't being encouraged to hold onto it.  That's not what our team's philosophy is based on anymore.  We had most of those same players last year and still managed to hold the ball much better than we currently do.
      3) I admire your optimism in thinking that Woy will adapt a more offensive game.  I am however confused that Kuyt managed to play wide in 08/09 and as you say to great effect, but is now partially responsible for drifting infield too much.  Makes for some interesting discussion.
      4) Many on here are convinced that GJ stays wide, ergo he would be a great choice for a winger.  Can you see him moving more centrally to defend against teams that attack through the middle?  If it's as simple as that, why couldn't we just ask him to stay back a little more.

      To me it's clear that players have been allowed far too much freedom to do as they please instead of clear and concise instructions.

      Again I'm not attacking yours, I'm just encouraging people to think about WHY they want Johnson on the wing, so these are exactly the type of posts I'm asking for to support the decision making process behind them.  It makes for far better reading than "he's better at attacking than defending".

      As far as the stale, dull, defensive side who give the ball away easily and provide no chances for Torres, get used to it - Hodgson's teams have always played this style of football.

      Anyway, I'm not sure if people's desire for GJ to be played on the wing is intended to:

      a) create more crosses;
      b) use the wider areas of the pitch better;
      c) shift our play to a more wider focus instead of centrally;
      d) try something new because currently things aren't working;
      e) improve our defensive game;
      f) all of the above somehow;

      9 clean sheets in a row without Johnson in the side.

      Just sharing a stat. Not picking at Johnson.

      post hoc ergo propter hoc

      Not defending Johnson, just sharing a common logical fallacy used in discussions.
      corballyred
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      Re: Debate: Johnson On The Wing
      Reply #72: Sep 28, 2010 04:39:24 pm
      How many goals did we score in that time, I remember we had a massive problem with Carragher being unable to get over the half way line.

       Is this the period where we went from October to March without scoring more then 1 goal in a game, one of the worst periods in our history in terms of goals scored, another interesting fact there Crouch.
      crouchinho
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      Re: Debate: Johnson On The Wing
      Reply #73: Sep 28, 2010 04:40:41 pm
      How many goals did we score in that time, I remember we had a massive problem with Carragher being unable to get over the half way line.

       Is this the period where we went from October to March without scoring more then 1 goal in a game, one of the worst periods in our history in terms of goals scored, another interesting fact there Crouch.

      Interesting indeed.

      Speaks volumes when a right back is meant to fix that.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Debate: Johnson On The Wing
      Reply #74: Sep 28, 2010 04:42:53 pm
      Interesting indeed.

      Speaks volumes when a right back is meant to fix that.

      Johnson can't be held accountable for that mate when we had a midfield that was devoid of any creativity what so ever.
      corballyred
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      Re: Debate: Johnson On The Wing
      Reply #75: Sep 28, 2010 04:43:30 pm
      We will agree to disagree here Redblood if I was using the same critical analysis you are using for Johnson here, I could say Kelly was at fault for three of the goals in his last two games.

      Your over analzying something way to minor, where was our centre halves when the ball came into the box, never mind about what Reina did.

      I don't think Johnson did much wrong here and I'm sure most full backs in the Premiership would have tried to do the same. We can't agree on everything though Redblood.
      crouchinho
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      Re: Debate: Johnson On The Wing
      Reply #76: Sep 28, 2010 04:45:54 pm
      Johnson can't be held accountable for that mate when we had a midfield that was devoid of any creativity what so ever.

      Exactly. To say a right back being out of the side led to a scoring drought is just highlighting a bigger issue here.
      corballyred
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      Re: Debate: Johnson On The Wing
      Reply #77: Sep 28, 2010 04:46:05 pm
      We had a massive problem with width last year especially when Johnson was out, something Cole, Evra, Clichy, Sagna all provide for there teams from a full back position. If you want  to win anything you need attacking full backs, every top team has them.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Debate: Johnson On The Wing
      Reply #78: Sep 28, 2010 04:49:57 pm
      Personally I think the best solution to all our problems is a Meirles Lucas combination in midfield, Gerrard on the right, Cole on the left and play Maxi in the hole.
      crouchinho
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      Re: Debate: Johnson On The Wing
      Reply #79: Sep 28, 2010 05:03:24 pm
      Can't we just play Cole there?

      As i said before, we need someone willing to make runs down the right wing (who is actually a winger) and he can cut in from the right, or go on his stronger foot and make runs out wide.

      Kuyt on the left would do me. He did it for the Dutch and still made runs on to his left foot. Even if he cuts in from the left, it'll be no different from Cole but the difference will be Cole will be playing in a position that'll help the team create some width while still being able to cut in and have an impact through the middle.
      red trooper
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      Re: Debate: Johnson On The Wing
      Reply #80: Sep 28, 2010 08:04:10 pm
      Agree with what Aldridge says ,which is only what most of the forum has been saying anyway , Johnson loves to attack down the right flank but when he gets dispossessed he leaves a big hole and he doesn't have the defensive capabilities to tackle anywhere near the box,i'd like to give it a go anyway Roy .
      Misty
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      Re: Debate: Johnson On The Wing
      Reply #81: Sep 28, 2010 08:06:06 pm
      Anything! 
      As long as Roy shakes it up ebit- trial and error right?

      We cant just keep putting out the same team in the same positions, with the same tactics & hope for the best!
      corballyred
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      Re: Debate: Johnson On The Wing
      Reply #82: Sep 28, 2010 08:35:18 pm
      I just want to see players played in there proper positions watching Cole here and he has spent the whole half attacking. Successful teams need attacking full back, name any successful team in Europe and you will see a common factor they all have attacking football.

      I don't think Kelly has anything to offer in an attacking sense at full back and it is very important that we do have some that can attack there when you see F***ing Konchesky on the other side.

       Kelly is not even a full back if this happens a lot of people will be on in here in a couple of weeks giving out about the lad, mark my words.
      OptimusRobbo
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      Re: Debate: Johnson On The Wing
      Reply #83: Sep 29, 2010 05:51:49 pm
      I Remember seeing him play in that position for Portsmouth and scored a goal that won goal of the month, Give him his go there and let Kuyt go upfront with Torres.

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