9 point deduction myth.

Plenty of people on here have said we will have 9 points deducted as have the premier league as we are not insovent and continue to pay our creditors as normal. the Bank have indicated they are happy to work with the new owners so why do people keep on mentioning something that will not happen. Lets start seeing some positivity the last 3 years have made all so depressed we seem unable to be positive anymore.

Liverpool are likely to face a nine-point deduction if its parent company Kop Holdings goes into administration next week, BBC Sport understands.

League rules say a points deduction can be used if a parent company insolvency is caused by the club's management.

Sources suggest owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett would struggle to argue that the running of the football club had not affected the holding company.

Liverpool could enter administration if a sale is not agreed by 15 October.

If Hicks and Gillett manage to block a £300m takeover of the club by New England Sports Ventures (NESV), owners of the Boston Red Sox baseball team, their holding company could be put into administration by the Royal Bank of Scotland over their £280m debts.

The Premier League board of chief executive Richard Scudmore, chairman Sir Dave Richards and secretary Mike Foster would then decide whether to dock points.

Liverpool are already in the bottom three of the Premier League after a dismal start to the season with just six points from their opening seven games.

Initially it was thought that the club would avoid a sporting penalty, but the club now faces the very real possibility of a deduction if a sale to NESV is delayed.

And it is now thought that Hicks and Gillett could find it hard to argue that the football club had not had a negative impact on Kop Holdings, especially when the club is the parent company's sole asset.

Liverpool's fate rests on the outcome of a declaratory judgement in the High Court on a date yet to be decided next week over whether the club can be sold to NESV despite the objection of the club's owners.

An appeal is likely regardless of the result, with no outcome likely before the 15 October refinancing deadline set by RBS, the club's major creditor. RBS will have the choice to waive their demand for repayment until the legal dispute is finalised, or call in the debt and place the parent company into administration.

Portsmouth became the first Premier League club to enter administration earlier this year and automatically received a nine point reduction, condemning it to relegation.

Liverpool is solvent and has been used to service Kop Holdings' debts, while in a similar case, West Ham avoided a penalty when its holding company went into administration last year. However, the club was just one of several interests in the portfolio of by Straumur, the Icelandic bank.

Meanwhile, John Henry and the other directors of NESV are expected to pass the league's new 'owners and directors' test, making official approval of the takeover a formality.

Its looking increasingly likely if the takeover doesnt happen!

Nothing has been reported on the official club site so i'm not overly bothered about this just yet.

If this was to happen we would be big time in the sh*te

Tell ye what tho it would sort the men from the boys in the squad and in the stands. Youd see the true reds rise to the top then fighting on the pitch to survive and off it to get behind the boys. There'd be no c**ts giving ye daggers for singing songs!!! 

So you believe all that Sky and the BBC say about LFC. The 9 point deduction was a penalty for not paying creditors by taking the easier route of Administration, who is it that LFC have not paid when did the Premier League say we will be deducted 9 points.

There is no Premier League rule which states that a club entering administration will be deducted 9 points. Each case will be judged on it's merits, circumtances and the ability to continue "trading" at a sustainable level.

a) Let's just hope the sale goes through and there is nowt to worry about
b) If the price of getting rid of H&G is 9 points, where do we sign?

I think this is the BBC's attempt to cloud the fact that the scum have made a £80m loss.

This is old news. and the EPL has stated that the 9pt deduction is unlikely.

My understanding is there will be no possibility of a 9pt deduction. I wish my work colleagues (Citeh fans) would stop harping on about it.

My understanding is there will be no possibility of a 9pt deduction. I wish my work colleagues (Citeh fans) would stop harping on about it.

There are far too many corporal Jones on here DONT PANIC DONT PANIC

As much as there is anxiety and such surounding the club at present, there are far too many people taking what the media are writing as gospel truth.

There is a key word in there - MEDIA. For me that says it all.

The club generates money so surely isn't insolvent, and its this which is servicing the debt.

Or maybe a scare tactic to get the shitty yanks to sell to nesv?

sh*t just got real.

I'm sure the Yanks were sent in just to pull us to the ground, nothing else.  Why would they be holding on to a near administration asset?

Just hope this takeover goes through, fingers crossed.

So if the takeover does go through, we won't be deducted 9 points.

But if it does not go through, it's likely we will?

So if the takeover does go through, we won't be deducted 9 points.

But if it does not go through, it's likely we will?

If RBS recalls on H+G, it'll be a deduction.

If RBS recalls on H+G, it'll be a deduction.

No it won't. Where have you got your info from, as it is incorrect?

No it won't. Where have you got your info from, as it is incorrect?

You are wasting your time its like talking to a wall. The word "May" has been used by the media which means they dont have a clue but if we use it and mention LFC people will listen and hey presto people listen and believe. THERE WILL BE NO DEDUCTION.

THERE WILL BE NO DEDUCTION.

You want clarity? See above!!!!

I believe there won't be a deduction; some of you believe there will be. ...Something to remember tho' - it will either F***ing happen or it won't.

None of it's in our control so why F***ing argue? Are you hoping we are deducted the points so that you can be proven right? F**k me pink - it's like Manic Depressives Anonymous in here; of late.

Forget what any news story "believes " will happen and do a bit of research. It took me all of 30 seconds to find out that THE PREMIER LEAGUE HAS NO RULING WHICH AUTOMATICALLY DEDUCTS 9 POINTS FROM A CLUB WHICH ENTERS ADMINISTRATION. Man alive! 

Liverpool have confirmed that they have failed in their bid to have their High Court hearing on Friday and that the civil war with owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett is now scheduled for "early next week".

ESPNsoccernet understands that Liverpool applied for the the case to be fast-tracked through the High Court, but now are resigned to the matter being heard by as early as Tuesday as Liverpool's lawyers, Slaughter and May, seek to derail the American duo's attempts to block the £300 million sale to the owners of the Boston Red Sox.

Hicks and Gillett are plotting their own sale of the club to give them back their £144 million investment, and want the courts to block the takeover, which has been agreed by Martin Broughton over their heads.

One of the most fascinating civil wars in football history needs to be aired ahead of the October 15 deadline when the Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) have the power to call in their £237 million debt.

Broughton is confident that Hicks and Gillett will not be successful in blocking the sale due to the written undertakings they made when handing over control of the club. Broughton says he was given the power to change the composition of the board and that efforts by the Americans to remove Ian Ayre and Christian Purslow, prior to the sale being announced, were not legitimate.

"I am confident we will prevail, but you can never be 100% when you go to court," Broughton said. "We will be seeking a judgment that we acted within our rights. They tried to remove Ian and Christian, and after taking legal advice I told them that was invalid.

"I think we'll get there, but I can't make a promise. If the case goes against us, we do have a fallback position, but we're not prepared to discuss this at present."

Hicks' New York-based spokesman, Mark Semer, has said that Broughton's claim that the sale cannot be blocked is false.

"There were no such undertakings given to Broughton. The board has been legally reconstituted, and the new board does not approve of this proposed transaction,'' Semer told Bloomberg News.

An attempted coup, which would have seen Hicks' son Mack and Lori McCuthcheon, of Hicks Holdings, replace Purslow and Ayre, was rejected.

Broughton is confident he and the other two England-based members of the board have acted appropriately but they will not be able to have that confirmed until the issue is thrashed out in court.

The Premier League is also expected to approve the takeover by New England Sports Ventures (NESV) that will see John W Henry's company purchase Liverpool for £300 million - which will wipe out most of the club's debt - on Friday.

It is thought the deal will be fully completed by the time Liverpool cross Stanley Park for the Merseyside derby against Everton on October 17 and it is reported that, even if Hicks and Gillett win the court case, RBS will call in the debt and immediately sell the club to Henry.

This was an article from yesterday, with the last sentence summing up what I think actually will happen if the takeover doesn't happen through the courts. The Premier League has approved the takeover (barring the high court's decision next week), so, even if Hicks & Gillett win the court case (which, btw, there is about a 0.1% chance of this happening), I think it's fair to say that John W. Henry will own the club once the debt is called in.

Forget what any news story "believes " will happen and do a bit of research. It took me all of 30 seconds to find out that THE PREMIER LEAGUE HAS NO RULING WHICH AUTOMATICALLY DEDUCTS 9 POINTS FROM A CLUB WHICH ENTERS ADMINISTRATION. Man alive! 

Well my research tells me if a club enters administration, and the company put into administration is in direct relation to the club, then we will get a 9 point deduction. The club has to prove that the insolvency at the company, in this case Kop Holdings Ltd, is not in any way related to the club and that the club itself is solvent. Now although the club is making a lot of money, the reason that Hicks and Gillett are in so much sh*t is because of the club - therefore any administration would be because of what they have done at the club, ie directly related.

Now i aint no market wiz, but it seems there is a chance that 9 points could be docked. But, there is the matter of hopefully NESV would take over immediately and the Premier League would not see the need to dock the points.

But i think you shooting down anyone who discusses the possibility is a bit rich, as i don't think anyone can 100% certain until there is a statement saying it won't happen.

If RBS call in the debt there will be NO 9 point deduction.

If H&G put us into administration they will appoint their own administrators taking RBS and the board out of the equation.  This WILL result in a 9 point deduction.

Hicks will most definitely take us down that route exactly the same as he did with the Rangers.  He will drag this out as long as possible and in the process will damage us a much as possible in the process.

As I said last night the best thing for US is that they (H&G) win in court - then RBS pull the plug.

So where is the documentation saying this then? I know you are a well researched las debs But im just confused as to what im finding saying there is a chance with RBS calling in loans as to what is being said here.

So where is the documentation saying this then? I know you are a well researched las debs But im just confused as to what im finding saying there is a chance with RBS calling in loans as to what is being said here.

I posted an article a few posts up in this thread which says at the very end:

It is thought the deal will be fully completed by the time Liverpool cross Stanley Park for the Merseyside derby against Everton on October 17 and it is reported that, even if Hicks and Gillett win the court case, RBS will call in the debt and immediately sell the club to Henry.

link: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=830505&sec=england&cc=5901&cc=5901

I'm confident that we will get out of this without a 9-point deduction. That's all I can be.

I posted an article a few posts up in this thread which says at the very end:

link: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=830505&sec=england&cc=5901&cc=5901

I'm confident that we will get out of this without a 9-point deduction. That's all I can be.

Sorry, i missed that one mate. Cheers.

Look, my main thing here is i aint gonna let myself be 100% certain and then have the Premier League turn around and dock us anyways, if some sh*t doesn't go down right. I aint a market wiz as i said, and im just letting myself be prepared for every possible scenario.

But i think from what you guys are saying, i can be 97.45% confident

Sorry, i missed that one mate. Cheers.

Look, my main thing here is i aint gonna let myself be 100% certain and then have the Premier League turn around and dock us anyways, if some sh*t doesn't go down right. I aint a market wiz as i said, and im just letting myself be prepared for every possible scenario.

But i think from what you guys are saying, i can be 97.45% confident

Understood.

So where is the documentation saying this then? I know you are a well researched las debs But im just confused as to what im finding saying there is a chance with RBS calling in loans as to what is being said here.

It's all to do with what is put into administration mate and how little H&G think about us.

The bank isn't putting us into administration they are calling in the debt.  LFC is a solvent, profitable asset.

If the owners decide they have no means of repaying the bank they put the whole business into administration.  So say they appoint KPMG as Administrators they have to find the money to pay the bank - who basically have first dibs.

If H&G decide to, they could do away with us altogether.  Or they could decide to sell us as a going concern.  If they do the latter they won't get any more money than what is on the table now (see Texas Rangers Bankruptcy).  Nor can they remain in control as they have handed everything over to Administrators.

The Administrators could decide the best way for H&G to get the most money back is to sell off the assets in bits and pieces.  

For example - Melwood.  Good sized area of land, if not in a conservation area or protected from redevelopment this could be sold off for building purposes.  Same as Anfield.

The same could be said of the Stanley Park land - unless again it is protected from redevelopment other than the new stadium.

We all know how Hicks works - would any of you trust him to do what's best for us??

RBS will attempt to sell us on before they put us into administration and that's after the possibility of NESV not winning this case.

Liverpool chairman tells of administration fears

By Harry Harris, Football Correspondent

Liverpool chairman Martin Broughton has told ESPNsoccernet that administration and the docking of nine points is a frightening possibility that he is desperately fighting to avoid.
Martin Broughton

Speaking from Washington, he talked candidly about the threat of administration on Liverpool. With the Royal Bank of Scotland's deadline for the repayment of £237 million looming on October 15, a Liverpool civil war will take place in the High Court just days before the banks can foreclose on Tom Hicks and George Gillett with the option of taking control of the club or putting it into administration.

Broughton told ESPNsoccernet: "It could happen, yes. This is all part of why it is important that we made the decision on Tuesday to accept one or the other of the two very acceptable bids. Heading for administration was a very likely outcome if we didn't."

"Even now with the court case looming, administration cannot be ruled out," Broughton confessed. "It is not inevitable, and I am not going to start giving percentages of how much it is possible. That is why we are going to court to clarify our position on the sale of the club, and we have to win in court, and we will win in court."

When Broughton was reminded that it isn't just Liverpool fans who want to see the club survive, and the whole of football would mourn once-mighty Liverpool, one of the global brands in the game, he responded: "Yes, I agree with you. Yes, this is about Liverpool, but it is also about football, not just Liverpool, and all of football would want to see Liverpool in a healthy state. Yes I am confident that we shall succeed, but lawyers are always confident - on both sides."

The impact of administration is not lost on Broughton. He said: "Going into administration needs to be avoided at all costs, as the negative impact would be catastrophic. Setting aside the nine-point deduction, it would have an impact on Liverpool's value and be wide open to predators, whereas we have what we believe is the right new owners to take the club forward."

With a court case looming, the legal team backing Liverpool have advised Broughton to be circumspect about what he says about Hicks and Gillett.

However, Hicks' public declaration that he had not given any undertaking to Broughton about the constitution of the Board and the sale process will be central to the court case. Clearly, Broughton's argument is that an undertaking was given to the Royal Bank of Scotland as part of the agreement to increase the facility for the loan

Broughton said: "If an obligation is given to RBS as part of the agreement then an obligation has been given to the major creditor and one would expect that to be honoured."

http://soccernet.espn.go.com

So if RBS take us over, we lose 9 points?
And H&G lose the potential £300m sale and walk away with nothing?

When Broughton was reminded that it isn't just Liverpool fans who want to see the club survive, and the whole of football would mourn once-mighty Liverpool,

HA HA HA HA HA

Somehow I don't believe that little snippet one bit, bet Harry was laughing his cock off writing that, sorry the rest of the world might mourn, but this country wouldn't.

Forget what any news story "believes " will happen and do a bit of research. It took me all of 30 seconds to find out that THE PREMIER LEAGUE HAS NO RULING WHICH AUTOMATICALLY DEDUCTS 9 POINTS FROM A CLUB WHICH ENTERS ADMINISTRATION. Man alive! 

Part of the problem though, so even though there was a points deduction for Portsmouth, there was no ruling put into place for when it happens again.

Just about sums up the Premier League.

I just feel that this is all spin for something.  As things stand we cannot lose 9 points even if RBS takeover.  Maybe someone is pushing the deal through and maybe there is a bigger player which a chelsea fan doesn't want Liverpool to have.  I don't know it just looks a bit odd.

Imagine if we were to be deducted 9 points. Everton would have an open-air bus parade, because to them this is bigger than any trophy they have ever won.

So if RBS take us over, we lose 9 points?
And H&G lose the potential £300m sale and walk away with nothing?

Either way, they are walking away with a £140 million loss.

Can someone explain simply what's happening?

The 9 point deduction is being used as a frighten-er by Broughton saying if we go into administration we will be worth even less and possibly not enough to pay off the debt leaving Hicks and Gillette an even bigger headache.there is so much speculation at the moment but the important thing is nobody has confirmed we will be deducted 9 points if we go into administration as we have a buyer to cancel the debt waiting in the wings Portsmouth and Leeds left a lot of people down by not paying them and going into administration. This is not the case with us we can pay our debts ongoing and we can also repay RBS if that's what it takes.Sit tight don't believe all you read unless its is a direct quote and this time next week we can all put the Hicks and Gillette era firmly behind us. At the moment there is a lot of bravado and postiering but the Yanks don't have much of a hand to play and I wouldn't be surprised if they back off at the last minute as they are looking even more silly by the day.

Imagine if we were to be deducted 9 points. Everton would have an open-air bus parade, because to them this is bigger than any trophy they have ever won.

Well Phil Neville the other day was lording it about them being above us in the table!!....yes thats right, lording it with them looking down on the relegation zone in 17th place!

If and i say if we do go into administration are all the player's contracts canceled amd can walk away free.

If and I say if we do go into administration are all the player's contracts canceled amd can walk away free.

No.

The 9 point deduction is being used as a frighten-er by Broughton saying if we go into administration we will be worth even less and possibly not enough to pay off the debt leaving Hicks and Gillette an even bigger headache.there is so much speculation at the moment but the important thing is nobody has confirmed we will be deducted 9 points if we go into administration as we have a buyer to cancel the debt waiting in the wings Portsmouth and Leeds left a lot of people down by not paying them and going into administration. This is not the case with us we can pay our debts ongoing and we can also repay RBS if that's what it takes.Sit tight don't believe all you read unless its is a direct quote and this time next week we can all put the Hicks and Gillette era firmly behind us. At the moment there is a lot of bravado and postiering but the Yanks don't have much of a hand to play and I wouldn't be surprised if they back off at the last minute as they are looking even more silly by the day.

Thank you, thank you........
This is just a tactic by Broughton, fire and brimstone and all that. LFC is not, nor is threatened with liquidation, therefore how can we be docked any points. The FA has already came out and said a points deduction in Liverpools case is highly unlikely. At the risk of repeating myself the 9 point penalty is designed to punish clubs that go into liquidation to avoid debts, particularly VAT & tax etc. thereby gaining a commercial advantage. LFC is solvent......... full f***in stop.

And anyway LFC and Broughton have stressed through this entire process that they have been in constant dialogue with the FA and they would know unequivocally at this point if a points deduction was imminent or likely. No ifs but and maybes.

The FA know the score and know what is going on. We need to hold our nerve for just a short time longer then they will be gone.

Just been reading in the telegraph that NESV have consultuted rick parry over the move!



Liverpool takeover: nine-point deduction may scupper ?300m deal
Liverpool's prospective owners New England Sports Ventures [NESV] may pull out of the proposed £300 million takeover if next week's court case rules that the club must enter administration.
 
Published: 11:27PM BST 09 Oct 2010

9 Comments

 Hard times ahead: Liverpool could be placed into adminstration which would then force the club into a relegation battle Photo: AP
Liverpool’s proposed sale to NESV could break down because the American company fears the club will be placed in administration and suffer a nine-point penalty.

It has been reported that NESV is alarmed by the idea, having been given assurances that it was an extremely unlikely scenario when the company agreed a deal to buy the club.

 
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Why would anyone want to buy Liverpool? It has also emerged that NESV has consulted Rick Parry, the club’s former chief executive who supported the takeover of Tom Hicks and George Gillett, over its bid.

John W Henry and Tom Werner, the principal figures behind NESV, met with Parry in his capacity both as an expert on Liverpool and the Premier League. The 55 year-old spent six years as the League’s inaugural chief executive before working at Anfield and helped negotiate a then-record £700m deal for TV rights with Sky.

Parry backed the Hicks-Gillett bid for Liverpool and is believed to have received a bonus of about £500,000 for helping complete the sale. He left the club in May last year.

A nine-point penalty, which could be imposed next Friday, would add further pressure on Roy Hodgson's team, which remains fourth from bottom, giving the club a total of minus three points, eight points behind the two clubs above, West Ham United and Wolves.

They need to distance themselves from Parry if they want the fans on board the man is a menace.

I don't believe that the points will be deducted if RBS call in the debt as it is the loan that has been defaulted on not the agreed payments to date. Default does not always mean insolvent. I have many clients who are asset rich but cash poor.
If the bank calls in your house over which it has a mortgage it does not always mean that you will be made bankrupt.
RBS will merely take control of the asset they have charged and then allow Broughton to complete the sale.
The only area of small concern is if the club is sold at a clearly undervalued price disadvantaging other creditors/shareholders there may be some flak but then RBS would have to deal with that as they controlled the sale. It would not be th clubs problem

Why do you call the possible deduction a "myth"??  It is not 

Its a myth perpetuated by the media show me where they FA have said we will be deducted 9 points or that RBS will put us into administration.

Why do you call the possible deduction a "myth"??  It is not 

But it is a myth

to be honest id rather us be put into admin now with all the sh*t them c*nts are putting us through just piss off you wa*kers if it means 9 points loss then so be it at least it gets rid off them

F**k me I give up.

Thanks to a combination of the Dallas injunction and the general negligence and incompetence of Broughton and that treacerous piece of scum Purslime it looks increasingly like administration and a nine point deduction.

Sprinkle in a generous dusting of Uncle Roy's magic and we look like prime relegation prospects.

Earlier today I thought the Mill Financial bid might just get us off the hook by avoiding administration but it seems even that was a forlorn hope.

Can't see Torres staying this summer and even Pepe has been making noises to Real.

At least when we're worth £50 SOS/Share Liverpool should be able to buy the club.

ADMINISTRATION DOES NOT NECESSARILLY MEAN POINTS DEDUCTION.The club is solvent and paying its bills do we actually want a 9 point deduction it would seem some would.RBS will not put us into Administration whilst there is a good chance of us being sold and getting all thier money back.

Thanks to a combination of the Dallas injunction and the general negligence and incompetence of Broughton and that treacerous piece of scum Purslime it looks increasingly like administration and a nine point deduction.

Have you read the Premier League rules regarding insolvency?

And the rules about when the 9point penalty can be waived?  I still think it extremely doubtful that under our circumstances administration would equal a penalty.

I'd take -9 points penalty and adminstration with a quick sale to NESV thant stay any more day with the tumors in charge, our squad is too good to be relegated and the penalty may make the players and Roy unite and get their act together so they avoid relegation

no 9 point deduction

no 9 point deduction

Hallefuckingluahhhhhhh someone has finally got it.

We've still got six points! YEE.....hmmm.... yeah... 

We'll be keeping whatever points we have it seems.

Happy days.