NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

My point was with their spend they should be fighting relegation.

Yet when we have spent £220M over 3 years it's still not enough, let's face it buddy we have bought rubbish but it's nothing new we have been doing it for the last decade.

Be bought a lot of non Liverpool quality players, there are still likely to be some successes, Can is a rough diamond, Moreno could be good if he watches some old videos of Steve Finnan and Riise. Markovic needs to find an end product, and Origi might find his form with us.
Fingers crossed!

No doubt we can expect the same next season with Rodgers with the likes of Milner and Ings.

OK HS, let look at it another way.

It is being reported that Raheem is going to buy himself out of his contract because we are not going to pay.

That is OK we have Ibe. Now Jordan may be just a bit more talented than Raheem but he lacks experience ..thats ok we move foward.

2016 comes along and Ibe is young player of Europe and now he wants to go and get paid top money again that we are not going to pay.

Now picture 3-4 Raheem's in the squad, yup we will do fine right up until they all want to get paid.

You have some lovely notion of a group of players that is just going to stay and fight for the shirt at all costs because a guy like Klopp is the manager.

I have a notion that year in and year out every time we develop a player he is going to get plucked and then we will start over.

The problem with developing from within is once a players reaches a certain level he wants more...be it money, fame, or a different challenge and right now we cannot offer any of that.

Be bought a lot of non Liverpool quality players, there are still likely to be some successes, Can is a rough diamond, Moreno could be good if he watches some old videos of Steve Finnan and Riise. Markovic needs to find an end product, and Origi might find his form with us.
Fingers crossed!

Id be happy if Moreno watched some videos of Flanno mate.

OK HS, let look at it another way.

It is being reported that Raheem is going to buy himself out of his contract because we are not going to pay.

That is OK we have Ibe. Now Jordan may be just a bit more talented than Raheem but he lacks experience ..thats ok we move foward.

2016 comes along and Ibe is young player of Europe and now he wants to go and get paid top money again that we are not going to pay.

Now picture 3-4 Raheem's in the squad, yup we will do fine right up until they all want to get paid.

You have some lovely notion of a group of players that is just going to stay and fight for the shirt at all costs because a guy like Klopp is the manager.

I have a notion that year in and year out every time we develop a player he is going to get plucked and then we will start over.

The problem with developing from within is once a players reaches a certain level he wants more...be it money, fame, or a different challenge and right now we cannot offer any of that.

Now imagine if we had won the league last year and the FA  Cup this year, Its much easier keeping hold of players when you are winning trophies.

Raheem is always going to leave to go back to London, he has never ingrained himself into our club or tried to get close to our fan base. He has no affinity with us at all. When ever he leaves as long as he leaves on our terms that's fine with me.

Thing is we can only generate so much..

If we have to spend a markedly higher part of the profit to generate are that success then I don't see them pushing the boat out.. Ever

The story that Mike Ashley at Newcastle being happy with his lot where he is, that as long as he doesn't relegated he is happy floating around where they are because it maximises profit.. That pushing on to Europe would eat into that with the added outgoings.. That he sells stars to keep that status quo.
Well I believe Ashley is FSG light.. Where we are they are happy with.. Increasing other aspects of the club to increase turnover but to push on and sustain CL would probably reduce overall levels so I'm not sure they really care if we do or not.

They aren't bad owners, but us breaking into the top table under these on a regular sustained basis isn't going to happen


Yes for what we spent last summer we could arguably expect better.. But look at the net.. It's always around the same..

No offence PD but

 If you believe what you are writing, then they are bad owner. What you have described (for us) is a bad owner.

 I personally don't think they are happy with our position, I think there not bothered. If you look at 95% of owners they are bothered and care where there club finishes, it hurts them personally. Does JH even know when we play ?

 

No offence PD but

 If you believe what you are writing, then they are bad owner. What you have described (for us) is a bad owner.

 I personally don't think they are happy with our position, I think there not bothered. If you look at 95% of owners they are bothered and care where there club finishes, it hurts them personally. Does JH even know when we play ?

I do believe what I'm saying mate, I wouldn't say it if I didnt. I have said this, or similar since they took over.

When I say bad owners I mean in the likes of our previous ones who were running the club dry and into massive debt.

These are safe, they have sorted us out off the field and are safe.. We won't be successful under these [as we deem success]

They will want us to finish as high as possible, but within their model.. They won't buckle from that or push the boat out further [i know they said they won't all along, but let's not pretend that it's needed to break consistently into those mass spenders above us and that there aren't ways to do it that skirt ffp] I've accepted they won't.. They are safe owners but the club has a ceiling under their model and we are about at it.

I'm not saying they are thieves or asset strippers or crooks.. But we won't be consistently successful in the modern world of football under FSG

I do believe what I'm saying mate, I wouldn't say it if I didnt. I have said this, or similar since they took over.

When I say bad owners I mean in the likes of our previous ones who were running the club dry and into massive debt.

These are safe, they have sorted us out off the field and are safe.. We won't be successful under these [as we deem success]

They will want us to finish as high as possible, but within their model.. They won't buckle from that or push the boat out further [i know they said they won't all along, but let's not pretend that it's needed to break consistently into those mass spenders above us and that there aren't ways to do it that skirt ffp] I've accepted they won't.. They are safe owners but the club has a ceiling under their model and we are about at it.

I'm not saying they are thieves or asset strippers or crooks.. But we won't be consistently successful in the modern world of football under FSG

I think that's a fair assesment, they want success but under thier model & without breaking the bank and too many risks.

This summer is the one though if they are to spend a few bob on a few top players it has to be now, we are losing our talisman our captian he has to e replaced with a player of similiar stature.

I think that's a fair assesment, they want success but under thier model & without breaking the bank and too many risks.

This summer is the one though if they are to spend a few bob on a few top players it has to be now, we are losing our talisman our captian he has to e replaced with a player of similiar stature.

But the simple facts are mate, they cant won't because of their model and the ffp restrictions.

We won't spend more than 30 million net this summer and that's not enough to bring in 'a few top players' let alone one to replace the skipper.

We will lose a few more in and around the squad to bump the spend but the net will always be the same.
We need more quality on top of what we have right now, let alone once we lose others from the squad.

Plus selling all these players that people keep listing is never that easy, historically we struggle to shift them, a few will end up on loan, with us likely pay a % of their wages which will mean we don't reduce them fully from the wage bill and there is no additional funds coming in for incomings.

People keep saying about selling Borini, Lambert and Balo.. That's tough enough on its own.. Borini turned down 2 moves last summer, Lambert one in the January window.. Balo, the whole of world football will know we want him out and will look to take us for a ride on fee and paying  a chunk of his current contract up which will negate most of the reduced fee we get in.. If we can move him at all.

We are losing two experienced players for free, we will look to probably lose 4 or 5 more which will be reduced fees or loans.. So that's maybe 4 players who have played parts this season who need to be replaced in numbers before we look to add the obvious quality we lack already with not much adding to the 30 million net pot to bring them in

It's not being negative, it's looking at it sensibly.

I'll still go the games next year and still be fully behind the club as I've been for the last 30 years but this summer won't be any better than any of the last five..Our squad lacks quality, still has players we don't want and is still behind the 4 above us by a mile. They could spend 30 net each and pull away even further as we are still rebuilding and they are supplementing

Sadly :-( You are quite correct mate.

The honest truth is we have been re-building since rafa started fighting with H&G in 2009.

All started with those 2 c#@ts and the C#@ts that sold us to them.

My anger is still with them, my anger to new owners is still balanced, but slowly growing bigger.

Now imagine if we had won the league last year and the FA  Cup this year, Its much easier keeping hold of players when you are winning trophies.
Raheem was always going back to London.

Imagine indeed.
To quote another John Lennon masterpiece 'Dream, Dream Away'.
If we do not have the wherewithal to actually win the trophies you speak of is it no wonder the more skilled players will exit purely out of self-interest?
When there seems to be a strategy of economic restriction vis a vis in the light of attracting game winning players, the wisdom or not of such procedure will be no more lucid than in the dressing room or on the field of play.
The missing 'wherewithal' spoken of would weigh heavily on our integral player's shoulders and in time would become unbearable.
Some inference that Sterling might want to return to the land of cokkanee sparrers for some geographical whim is naïve, overpowering success would have held on to Suarez - why not Sterling??

Sadly :-( You are quite correct mate.

The honest truth is we have been re-building since rafa started fighting with H&G in 2009.

All started with those 2 c#@ts and the C#@ts that sold us to them.

My anger is still with them, my anger to new owners is still balanced, but slowly growing bigger.

2009, pah. Good decade and a bit before that.

I'm not sure if I'm sad or bemused that so many still believe that we're going to change when we've done this or that, won this or that or got this manager rather than that one.  They've been here nearly 5 years and they've never wavered from their path, never changed course, never deviated from what they said in their very first statement.

We'll be self sufficient, we'll never be put at financial risk, we'll always spend what we earn but never any more, we'll never overpay in transfer fees or wages, we'll be a fantastically stable business but a shell of a football team.

Oh we'll win the odd thing here or there, we might occasionally, when there's a fair wind, challenge at the very top but it will be done organically, within strict guidelines, growing from within.  They'll never push the boat out to take that final step needed to challenge every single season like the big boys do.

As PD says they're safe owners, we're safe in their hands but we'll never be one of the greats again.  They don't need us to be.

2009, pah. Good decade and a bit before that.

Yes, 1991 onwards probably, but we had good winning squads since then, the 2001 treble team & Rafas team from 2005-2009, If we had FSG instead of H&G, Im sure rafa would have stayed and won more, but thats all if's & but's.

I also believe Kenny would have improved if he had been left instead of sacking him for a young manager, but thats just my personal opinion.

I do believe what I'm saying mate, I wouldn't say it if I didnt. I have said this, or similar since they took over.

When I say bad owners I mean in the likes of our previous ones who were running the club dry and into massive debt.

These are safe, they have sorted us out off the field and are safe.. We won't be successful under these [as we deem success]

They will want us to finish as high as possible, but within their model.. They won't buckle from that or push the boat out further [i know they said they won't all along, but let's not pretend that it's needed to break consistently into those mass spenders above us and that there aren't ways to do it that skirt ffp] I've accepted they won't.. They are safe owners but the club has a ceiling under their model and we are about at it.

I'm not saying they are thieves or asset strippers or crooks.. But we won't be consistently successful in the modern world of football under FSG

I agree with everything you are saying apart from the good owner. How can they be all the things you are saying and be good owners ?

They dont have to run us into the ground to be a bad owner.

9 players Crouchino, 9 players! 20 million, 25 million, decent amounts of money for sure, not enough to buy world class talent though!
If you don't think FSG Sat down with Ian Ayres to discuss transfer policy, and give him the ok to proceed with that policy, your crazy.
FSG just sign the Cheques? I don't think so!

Do you think our squad size from last season would be big enough that we could only sign 3 or 4 players to cover 4 competitions this season?

Do you think Reus (a player with a 50m price tag) would be allowed Crouch; I mean honestly do you think they would do it?

You can give me a mandate to win the Monaco GP and back me fully but if I have to spend all my money at the Mini dealer I might underachieve.

I would rather have 1 Ferrari than 100 Mini Coopers.

I look at us putting in bids for Costa and Sanchez and think "Yes, they would buy those players". But no one is going to choose us over PSG, Bayern, Madrid, Barca, Chelsea, Arsenal or United etc.

Do you think our squad size from last season would be big enough that we could only sign 3 or 4 players to cover 4 competitions this season?

I look at us putting in bids for Costa and Sanchez and think "Yes, they would buy those players". But no one is going to choose us over PSG, Bayern, Madrid, Barca, Chelsea, Arsenal or United etc.

They might if you have the pull of a charismatic elite manager 

They might if you have the pull of a charismatic elite manager 

Torres could have gone anywhere but he came here because of Rafa, winning the European cup helped.

So get a great manager, win some trophies and we will have a chance of signing the big names.

I'm not sure if I'm sad or bemused that so many still believe that we're going to change when we've done this or that, won this or that or got this manager rather than that one.  They've been here nearly 5 years and they've never wavered from their path, never changed course, never deviated from what they said in their very first statement.

We'll be self sufficient, we'll never be put at financial risk, we'll always spend what we earn but never any more, we'll never overpay in transfer fees or wages, we'll be a fantastically stable business but a shell of a football team.

Indeed Debs.
You describe an entrepreneurial hermit crab that crawls inside a convenient shell to accommodate it's activities.
The desired course of events is the entrepreneurial decapod crustacean benefits in a designated time scale and abandons it's host to attach itself to a more fitting host in view of it's expanded form.

The host tends to drift on the seabed awaiting the possession of another entrepreneurial hermit crab. 



[/quote]

Why are Chelsea running away with the league despite having the 3rd highest spend on wages?
They spent big previously and have built a core of quality players who make sure they are constantly challenging for Top 4.

We had a once in a life time opportunity with the Suarez money last year but spunked it up the wall on mediocre English premier league proven players.

No doubt we can expect the same next season with Rodgers with the likes of Milner and Ings.

The other big difference between Chelsea and and the likes of United/City is that they may match them financially, but Mourinho tends to buy hard grafters, not just skillful stars. Apart from Hazard, I would say pretty much everyone else is far more the type of a player who puts in a hard shift every game more than skill. Likes of Costa, Oscar, Willain, Fabregas are top players but less skillful than the likes of Toure, Silva, Aguero, Di Maria, Falcao, Van Persie...you get the drift. Mourinho backs them up with a solid solid back four and you can see why they're so consistent.

I would argue that we actually miss a couple of those types of hard grafters. Suarez was special, he wasn't just a pure talent, he worked his socks off every game, we miss that. I want more Can and Mascherano type of players in the team that supports the creative players like Sterling, Couts and Lallana. It doesn't look balanced at the moment.

Bring Hypia, xabi & masch back and we are sorted. :-)

The other big difference between Chelsea and and the likes of United/City is that they may match them financially, but Mourinho tends to buy hard grafters, not just skillful stars. Apart from Hazard, I would say pretty much everyone else is far more the type of a player who puts in a hard shift every game more than skill. Likes of Costa, Oscar, Willain, Fabregas are top players but less skillful than the likes of Toure, Silva, Aguero, Di Maria, Falcao, Van Persie...you get the drift. Mourinho backs them up with a solid solid back four and you can see why they're so consistent.

I would argue that we actually miss a couple of those types of hard grafters. Suarez was special, he wasn't just a pure talent, he worked his socks off every game, we miss that. I want more Can and Mascherano type of players in the team that supports the creative players like Sterling, Couts and Lallana. It doesn't look balanced at the moment.

Moreover Chelsea are a club that has sprung to the foreground and will be there for as long as the dough source is interested so they have appointed a manager who matches their philosophy(hand in glove) which is ''aim justifies the means'' and "immediate results".Their game is obvious that doesn't need to spend time to build a winning side but only money, epitomized by Mourhinhio (or whatever the spelling is), so inevitably they are returning to the title.

I'm not sure if I'm sad or bemused that so many still believe that we're going to change when we've done this or that, won this or that or got this manager rather than that one.  They've been here nearly 5 years and they've never wavered from their path, never changed course, never deviated from what they said in their very first statement.

We'll be self sufficient, we'll never be put at financial risk, we'll always spend what we earn but never any more, we'll never overpay in transfer fees or wages, we'll be a fantastically stable business but a shell of a football team.

Oh we'll win the odd thing here or there, we might occasionally, when there's a fair wind, challenge at the very top but it will be done organically, within strict guidelines, growing from within.  They'll never push the boat out to take that final step needed to challenge every single season like the big boys do.

As PD says they're safe owners, we're safe in their hands but we'll never be one of the greats again.  They don't need us to be.

Sorry to pick out one part of an excellent post reddebs, but surely this part isn't quite true?
They came in, saw what the fans thought of Hodgson, sacked him, brought in the fans favourite KK and gave him a load of money to spend (loaned).
It was only after their KK venture failed (and at a guess I reckon KK told them if they gave him money he would get top 4 etc in first season) that they turned back to their preferred method which they have since carried on under BR.

Am I remembering wrongly here?

Am I remembering wrongly here?

I'm not saying this is or isn't true or aiming the comment at you or anyone else, but this part has just reminded of something I heard said the other day.  History used to be written by the winners, nowadays it's rewritten by the whiners.