NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

For the rest of the summer though, I'm still very hopeful that we'll get Jürgen's top targets and the progress from last season will continue apace.

Wish I had your optimism. So far for me it seems to be the same old song and dance. Dragging deals along over a few million...a few million that they'll likely end up paying in the end anyway.

Sometimes is can be beneficial to just come in and pay the asking price without trying to nickel and dime the other party.  You do that a few times and all of the sudden people take you seriously.  There is nothing wrong with coming in a little low. But we basically try to  get every signing for a cut rate and when has that ever worked for us? I can't think of one player that we've all thought (at the time) "wow, we really stole that player from the other team".

But I think we can all point to a number of deals where if we'd just ponied up some extra, we could have had the player that we supposedly really wanted. Willian, Salah (the first time), Mikhytaryan, Zielinkski, Dahoud........

I could be  wrong on those, but that's sure the way that it looks to me.

In life, people don't like to deal  with misers...with people that are always  trying to negotiate you  down on something they want of yours that you actually value.  I tell those people to jog...I'll wait  to deal  with someone that's not going to insult me and that's serious to do business.

Like I said in another post, it's a seller's market right now....we have to adjust our purchasing style to adjust to that.

who gives a sh*t what you or I label players, be it average or world class, if they perform for us?

who cares if we punched above our weight if we got there?

who cares is nobody is labelled world class? you probably said "we can't get top 4 without a world class player" at one point.

i don't even really get your points about Klopp managing elsewhere and bringing up Southampton.

i don't give a sh*t who we sign or how much they cost or anything, Klopp is here to get the most out of the players signed, he's not going to get his #1 target every window, maybe he'll never get his #1 target, who gives a sh*t? people think they know who our number 1 target is because they read it in the Echo, so when we don't sign this player they use it as ammunition against the owners. you're just getting played by the media. it doesn't actually matter once the football starts.

"Who gives a sh*t" This... "Who gives a sh*t" That ....Answer:- We all do Why else are we hear posting...?
As for the "You're just getting played by the media" line, I have  all ways, (Well since I was about 20 anyway) Let the thing I either reading the the papers,Hear on the Radio, or watch on the News inform my opinions, but never Rule them...

I know rumours are just that "Rumours" What I am upset about is the way the club are handling the way in which we have approached possibly signing some of the players, VVD,Deli Ali, Salah (the fist time) etc It seem as if They (FSG) are trying to pull the wool over the fans eyes by approaching player that they have no really wish to sign, unless it fits thier remit of between £10m-20m or they will take  low wages, and if the price or wage demands are too high the deal suddenly fall through and then we are feed with the "spin" that we offered the right amounts but the player just did not want to come...

AS for Quality, You need that if you are to be fighting out the Title and CL football every season, The team that lacks that can only punch above thier weight for so long... Had we someone of "quality" to replace Mane in January we maybe would have been 2nd in the table and not having to play "Qualifiers" in the CL... Utd had that, and as a result won the Europa League, we did not and loss our final

Honestly, you'd think that.

But last summer was genuinely baffling. By August you had people swearing blind Wijnaldum wasn't a third choice. He absolutely was, yet instead of 'disappointment' at missing out on Klopp's first couple of targets we had a surprisingly common selective amnesia. It wasn't just with Wijnaldum, but it was an interesting example. Like when the Zielinksi deal collapsed - which it did - people were basically saying it was never on because it was an easier narrative to handle compared to the truth.

Now, my argument then (and still is) if Klopp wanted Dahoud and Zielinski and he ends up with his third choice it had shown that there was still an atmosphere of settling for lesser targets. At this stage I expect someone to say it's okay because Wijnaldum has been good, which he has but I honestly don't think you can continue to paint over failures to get 'top' targets. People will point to Mane over Gotze to say it isn't all bad... but again collective amnesia strikes!

We clearly went in heavily for Dembele who rejected us! It's been far too often this club has been dropping down the list of targets and who knows what that has cost us. We went in for Pulisic, Draxler, Brandt and now Salah since last summer. So to my mind, if you can't get Salah over the line - as we clearly need a wide forward with pace - you'd be talking about arguably 4-6th choice. As long as this is the norm, is it any wonder we under perform on what the fans crave?
Two things on this:
1. I started on this forum as a student and I lived in the UK, neither of those is still the case and that impacts my time available to post on here. Is that okay with you? I must say though, I enjoyed getting a dressing down from a poster I don't think I have never even noticed before!

2. Something which impacts my willingness to post is that if I do post anything that isn't group-think approved I piss people off. And if I have the temerity to post in threads in January about how I argued all summer we hadn't done enough... then you piss people off.

Take Mags post about me below. He'd be calling me a pr**k if I 'point out' I was right and if I don't post and 'point out' I was right then when I finally return you insinuate that my absence is somehow suspicious... the only way you can win is to agree with the crowd and then go with the crowd to incredulous when we turn out to not have the squad many thought. Honestly, the number of people pissing and moaning in matchday threads about the lack of squad, who last summer were acting holier than thou was fantastic! Yet apparently I am the one who grandstands!? For the record, if I wanted to be a pr**k I could have posted plenty of those replies I received last summer calling the squad fine and strong and then crying about the losses. But I am not interested in 'purely' point scoring. I'm interested to showing people the massive faults in our transfer strategy. I'd rather just continue to have my own opinion and not be pressured into total silence. I don't mind if you don't agree with me on transfers, I just found it interesting reading the same posters who had a pop all summer then agree entirely when the sh*t hit the fan! Let's be honest, it's not like saying the squad was thin was a genius thought only I had. It was pretty F***ing obvious to plenty on here.
 

I need you to clarify this, I don't follow what you actually want me to explain. Other than to say if there were one or two examples of us not getting our man and settling then I'd agree.

But the list of public transfers sagas ending in disappointment are too  many and the explanations briefed are too clear to pretend there isn't a patter... either that or we are the unluckiest team ever.

Willian
Salah
Mhkytarian
Costa
Konoplyanka
Dahoud

I can't be arsed to reargue these, maybe you think we just gosh darn it lucked out. But I just don't buy into the idea Liverpool are repeatedly encountering clubs who 'wont' sell under any circumstances! Those clubs would sell, but we just won't make them... like when teams make us sell when they come for our big boys!

The problem with owners who don't know football is they can't have any vision. It's been obvious for years that wages and transfer inflation in England compared to the rest would mean if you want top players then there are no "bargains" left.

You could see it in the talk of "biggest summer ever" in the press. "Liverpool to spend 150m" talk was clearly briefed, it came from numerous sources in a short space of time.

Our owners think we will all be impressed by 150m spend, but its clear as day anyone we can to compete with will go close or higher!

Thats now the norm not the exception. So 12m for Pulisic isn't savvy, it's stupid.

Again, every FSG summer... the same thing.

"Don't worry it's only May"
"Don't worry it's only June"
"Don't worry it's only July"
"Don't worry it's only August"
"Theres always January!"

I really hoped this summer was gonna be different. I was finally going to believe in the press briefings, this year would maybe be different!!

Then the club tried to be too clever on Van Dijk and were publicly humiliated by a midtable club. It showed they really haven't learned a f**king thing about this quest for "value" that ends up being counter productive if you continually end up never getting your top choice.

The owners of this club are adequate.

They are okay, they do some stuff well and some stuff badly. Saving us from administration, finally building the Main Stand and improving the commercial aspects of the club aren't some achievements to be placed on a pedestal, they are exactly what any non fraudulent owner would have done. I'm not saying FSG are awful, but they quite clearly dragged their feet after realising what it would actually take to have us compete.

For any off the field successes, as well as considerable PR failures, they have presided over a extremely barren period for this club, trying numerous different ways of coming up with a magic rabbit from the hat. We simply have not been adequately competitive since they bought us over, at this stage if you can't see the problem is systemic then I really don't know how it make it clear.

The fact is the lack the resources to make us compete with the oligarch clubs, most people realise that now. But what people still don't realise is that this the resource restrictions placed on the club and various versions of the transfer strategy are not 'all' Liverpool can be doing to compete.

If the penny really has dropped regarding the club and wages & transfers, the Van Dijk fiasco looked remarkably like a blast from the penny pinching past. This anemic version of Liverpool is less than the best we can be, I think the reason so many get defensive about FSG is because deep down they know this but don't want to deal with the truth.

I think this is an excellent post which shares your opinion well. For the record if you are correct, I wouldn't be calling you a pr**k. I've said on many occasions that if we don't have a big transfer window this summer, then there is valid concern and reason to be up in arms. I'm just not willing to do that until the window shuts. I personally believe we will sign the players we need. If we don't, then be my guest in calling the owners whatever you want because I won't argue with facts. My point was don't be the guy who does argue with the facts if and when we do start bringing in those players we need.

Speaking to my brother yesterday and he told me his mate ( who works in Anfield ITK )  was telling him that the gossip around the office is that FSG had no intention of paying £ 50 Mil on a CB and were hoping a bidding war would start for VVD with City and Chelsea.

Apparently Klopps fuming and a bit of tension is developing . Listen , you can make what you want of it but this lad always gets it spot on .

Was it you that said your ITK mentioned there was some tension between Hendo and the staff and something wasn't quite right 2 or 3 years ago ?!?!?!

"Who gives a sh*t" This... "Who gives a sh*t" That ....Answer:- We all do Why else are we hear posting...?
As for the "You're just getting played by the media" line, I have  all ways, (Well since I was about 20 anyway) Let the thing I either reading the the papers,Hear on the Radio, or watch on the News inform my opinions, but never Rule them...

I know rumours are just that "Rumours" What I am upset about is the way the club are handling the way in which we have approached possibly signing some of the players, VVD,Deli Ali, Salah (the fist time) etc It seem as if They (FSG) are trying to pull the wool over the fans eyes by approaching player that they have no really wish to sign, unless it fits thier remit of between £10m-20m or they will take  low wages, and if the price or wage demands are too high the deal suddenly fall through and then we are feed with the "spin" that we offered the right amounts but the player just did not want to come...

AS for Quality, You need that if you are to be fighting out the Title and CL football every season, The team that lacks that can only punch above thier weight for so long... Had we someone of "quality" to replace Mane in January we maybe would have been 2nd in the table and not having to play "Qualifiers" in the CL... Utd had that, and as a result won the Europa League, we did not and loss our final

It continues FSG's fine PR tradition in thinking we're all a bunch of brain dead morons. 10 years ago we had Hicks and Gillett promising a 'spade in the ground' within days of taking over. FSG play the same game with our transfer activity yet consistently fail to realise that some of us can see straight through their bullshit.

On the transfer front, I think we're all forgetting the fact that, a couple of players aside, we've got a pretty bang average squad that is devoid of any real charisma or connection with the fan base. As well as that, we only just got into the top 4 despite not having any European 'distractions'. There's a lot of work to be done on this squad and I fear we're botching things up already. Or rather FSG are pretending to look like they're doing something when in reality we all know they're doing jack sh*t. And as harsh as it is on Salah, to be dragging this one out when no other club is in for him, heck no other club in England wants him, tells me all we need to know about the sheer incompetency of this regime that owns Liverpool. Any success that comes under Klopp's guidance of this club will be in spite of the owners and not because of it.

Speaking to my brother yesterday and he told me his mate ( who works in Anfield ITK )  was telling him that the gossip around the office is that FSG had no intention of paying £ 50 Mil on a CB and were hoping a bidding war would start for VVD with City and Chelsea.

Apparently Klopps fuming and a bit of tension is developing . Listen , you can make what you want of it but this lad always gets it spot on .

If that was indeed true, then I'd totally be with Jürgen on this one.

If he didn't know that he was working with a sack full of incompetent c*nts, then he certainly does now.

THE TRANSFER WINDOW ISNT OPEN YET.

EVERYONE PUTS IN LOW OFFERS FOR A PLAYER TO START WITH AND THEN YOU NEGOTIATE TO GET THE BEST DEAL.

WE HAVE JUST QUALIFIED FOR THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE BE HAPPIER.

I feel better now

Mate. I hear what you are saying but it's like De Ja Vu every F***ing Transfer window. We try to low ball other clubs and we end up missing out on our Top Targets every F***ing time. It's F***ing frustrating.

Mate. I hear what you are saying but it's like De Ja Vu every F***ing Transfer window. We try to low ball other clubs and we end up missing out on our Top Targets every F***ing time. It's F***ing frustrating.

Should be pretty obvious to everyone by now.

Was it you that said your ITK mentioned there was some tension between Hendo and the staff and something wasn't quite right 2 or 3 years ago ?!?!?!

No

If that was indeed true, then I'd totally be with Jürgen on this one.

If he didn't know that he was working with a sack full of incompetent c*nts, then he certainly does now.

I'd like Jürgen to come out and say something on the matter of these two transfers. Drop a little hint maybe ?

I'd like Jürgen to come out and say something on the matter of these two transfers. Drop a little hint maybe ?

Ah let him enjoy his 50th. Hungover to F**k for the next few days id say

Mate. I hear what you are saying but it's like De Ja Vu every F***ing Transfer window. We try to low ball other clubs and we end up missing out on our Top Targets every F***ing time. It's F***ing frustrating.

I'm not sure that's true though last year we got Mane, Gini, Matip and for what it's worth, Karius who was a top target at the time. Sure we didn't spend a lot but if you look at the players we lost, all deadwood that needed to go. Season before we bought in Firmino, Clyne, Ings, Milner and Benteke who would have been a great signing if we decided to actually cross the ball that season. We didn't change our style of play so he had no chance.

I think there's been clear signs of improvement in the transfer target from the days of Lambert and Mario. That's why I'm not thinking we're going to F**k all this up.

For what it's worth the last player to sign for us before todays current date was Ricky Lambert, every other player in recent memory has signed later, the earliest after being Mane on June 28th and Joe Gomez on June 20th. So, no need to panic in my eyes.

If your getting bids for players accepted at this stage, you're overpaying for them. No way should a first bid ever be accepted by the club. You start off asking for something lower than you're willing to pay and work from there, I believe that's the stage we're at right now. When I see clubs saying they want more for a player I think that's a good thing, at least we're not throwing away our money.

If your getting bids for players accepted at this stage, you're overpaying for them. No way should a first bid ever be accepted by the club. You start off asking for something lower than you're willing to pay and work from there, I believe that's the stage we're at right now. When I see clubs saying they want more for a player I think that's a good thing, at least we're not throwing away our money.

By experience mate, 7 years experience, we do start off with a bid lower than we want to pay, no denying that.
Trouble is other clubs do the same thing but are prepared to pay the price nearer the true worth of the player.

JWH is quoted as saying he will not pay more than what he thinks is a fair price for a player, or words to that effect.

The above almost certainly rules out the quality that would bring us success in the coming season.

By experience mate, 7 years experience, we do start off with a bid lower than we want to pay, no denying that.
Trouble is other clubs do the same thing but are prepared to pay the price nearer the true worth of the player.

JWH is quoted as saying he will not pay more than what he thinks is a fair price for a player, or words to that effect.

The above almost certainly rules out the quality that would bring us success in the coming season.

It's a possibility mate, I'm just choosing to stay positive. I will go on the mother of all rants if we don't sign anyone quality at the end of this window, but at this stage, I just don't see the point in writing our fate before the window even opens and before we traditionally make any signings in the first place. It's embarrassing reading the angry tirades people are going on at this stage there's a time and place for that, and I don't think mid-June is it.

I'd like Jürgen to come out and say something on the matter of these two transfers. Drop a little hint maybe ?

Yep.

As it was with Rodgers, he was accused of sleeping in bed with FSG because he didn't come out and do a Rafa.

Will Klopp be held under the same scrutiny?

Yep.

As it was with Rodgers, he was accused of sleeping in bed with FSG because he didn't come out and do a Rafa.

Will Klopp be held under the same scrutiny?

I will be eternally greatful for Rafa letting the world know what  Twit and tw*t were up to. Fenway have got to stop showing their ignorance regarding the transfer market,We have too many astute supporters and they will soon show Fenway the error of their ways.

Playing devil's advocate rafa has fallen out with the power brokers at every major club he has managed

Playing devil's advocate rafa has fallen out with the power brokers at every major club he has managed

Rafa saved us from hell,where would the devil's advocate have taken us.

Rafa saved us from hell,where would the devil's advocate have taken us.

Last season he couldn't get us out of an average cl group, people forget that things on the pitch weren't great along with the chaos of it

Playing devil's advocate rafa has fallen out with the power brokers at every major club he has managed

That maybe so. But at this very club he was heralded for doing exactly that. He practically set a precedent for every manager since. Every prospective manager must practically have it written on his CV that he is willing to publicise his discontent of his circumstances with club management. This particular precedent stick was used against the last incumbent who was accused himself of being a yes man, as he had to be practically grateful for the job he found himself in - and therefore could never rock that boat. Instead he lie side by side in bed with John Henry taking it gratefully up the bum tunnel. Now, Klopp finds himself in an equally precarious circumstance where management again seem to be tickling around his bum tunnel. Will he call them out on that or will he take entry to this area silently? If so, are we going to see those who used Rafa's precedent against BR, come out evenhandedly against Klopp for 'going along with FSG's actions, or lack of'? Will he do the now honourable thing that BR was supposed to do, and let us know that he and us by virtue of supporting this club are being fu**ed around by our austere owners in Boston?

I won't hold my breath. 

As I can see it now, with Klopp in charge some of those very same people are trying to make excuses for FSG in the transfer market which of course in their mind insulates Klopp even more in the next twisted saga of our transfer fiasco's. 

That maybe so. But at this very club he was heralded for doing exactly that. He practically set a precedent for every manager since. Every prospective manager must practically have it written on his CV that he is willing to publicise his discontent of his circumstances with club management. This particular precedent stick was used against the last incumbent who was accused himself of being a yes man, as he had to be practically grateful for the job he found himself in - and therefore could never rock that boat. Instead he lie side by side in bed with John Henry taking it gratefully up the bum tunnel. Now, Klopp finds himself in an equally precarious circumstance where management again seem to be tickling around his bum tunnel. Will he call them out on that or will he take entry to this area silently? If so, are we going to see those who used Rafa's precedent against BR, come out evenhandedly against Klopp for 'going along with FSG's actions, or lack of'? Will he do the now honourable thing that BR was supposed to do, and let us know that he and us by virtue of supporting this club are being fu**ed around by our austere owners in Boston?

I won't hold my breath. 

As I can see it now, with Klopp in charge some of those very same people are trying to make excuses for FSG in the transfer market which of course in their mind insulates Klopp even more in the next twisted saga of our transfer fiasco's. 

The unequivocal truth right there.

That maybe so. But at this very club he was heralded for doing exactly that. He practically set a precedent for every manager since. Every prospective manager must practically have it written on his CV that he is willing to publicise his discontent of his circumstances with club management. This particular precedent stick was used against the last incumbent who was accused himself of being a yes man, as he had to be practically grateful for the job he found himself in - and therefore could never rock that boat. Instead he lie side by side in bed with John Henry taking it gratefully up the bum tunnel. Now, Klopp finds himself in an equally precarious circumstance where management again seem to be tickling around his bum tunnel. Will he call them out on that or will he take entry to this area silently? If so, are we going to see those who used Rafa's precedent against BR, come out evenhandedly against Klopp for 'going along with FSG's actions, or lack of'? Will he do the now honourable thing that BR was supposed to do, and let us know that he and us by virtue of supporting this club are being fu**ed around by our austere owners in Boston?

I won't hold my breath. 

As I can see it now, with Klopp in charge some of those very same people are trying to make excuses for FSG in the transfer market which of course in their mind insulates Klopp even more in the next twisted saga of our transfer fiasco's. 

The issue for me is if fsg or whoever.move the gateposts and don't back up promises made to the manager..if the club backtrack on promises in terms of amounts, policies etc that have been agreed with the manager and are seen as conditions of the new manager coming in then the manager has every right to be unhappy but if he ttaks over understanding any imitations or restrictions than he can't really go around with his head down and moaning and groaning.

"Our ambitions do not lie in cementing a mid-table place with expensive, short-term quick fixes that will only contribute for a couple of years."

Aye... your way was much much better JW. 😩

Still there's always next season right? The season when 'we' can all ignore the previous years and say your way has "been vindicated". 😴

"Much thought and investment already have gone into developing a self-sustaining pool of youngsters imbued in the club's traditions."

So... Johnny, 5 years on: where are they? 🤔