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      NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

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      corballyred
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2730 : Feb 15, 2012 09:30:16 am »
      Mate the longer the stadium is delayed the longer we stay behind the other teams in relation to revenue.  Saw a stat recently just shows how far we are behind Utd and arsenal in terms of match day revenue. I remember moores saying the main reason he was selling was so owners could build a stadium so we could compete with others. The current owners are here a year and a half really would have expected some announcement by now.
      Paisleydalglish
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2731 : Feb 15, 2012 09:33:52 am »
      Mate the longer the stadium is delayed the longer we stay behind the other teams in relation to revenue.  Saw a stat recently just shows how far we are behind Utd and arsenal in terms of match day revenue. I remember moores saying the main reason he was selling was so owners could build a stadium so we could compete with others. The current owners are here a year and a half really would have expected some announcement by now.

      Possibly but i think that they have been doing alot of work on it behind the scenes, the clean up of the season ticket list isnt at an end yet, they are still waiting for replys, the new structure to buy tickets in two blocks. Searching out potential sponsors. Talks with the local council. Its all going on, i would expect a decision sooner rather than later on it yes, but i genuinely think they are doing the correct research before they jump into it.
      corballyred
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2732 : Feb 15, 2012 09:41:04 am »
      We are assuming that mate but an announcement really has to come soon.
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2733 : Feb 15, 2012 09:41:34 am »
      Oh dear: What have the Romans ever done for us?

      Let's have a look...

      * Got rid of Hicks & Gillett

      * Got rid of a crippling debt.

      * Got rid of Hodgson.

      * Brought Kenny back.

      * Got rid of Purslow.

      * Re-united all but the most idiotic of 'fans' and brought belief back to the club.

      * Spent £100m plus on players whilst cutting out deadwood and players who didn't want to be with us.

      * Increased our revenue.

      * Raised our profile in the U.S.

      * Have conducted business in a highly professional manner.

      * Behaved with both dignity and respect.

      Alas tho'... they aren't wealthy oil tycoons, haven't built a new stadium (yet) oh and... they didn't sign Juan Mata - woe is me. They say patience is a virtue whilst greed and envy are 'deadly sins'; hmmm... How's that wealthy oil tycoon, his £50m striker and Juan Mata doing as of now?  :-\

      Fact: the wage bill was cut because we got rid of players who either were not good enough or wanted to play elsewhere. Was that wrong of F.S.G.?
      Fact: our net spend is lower because we were able to get good money for a bad lot (the oil tycoon can vouch for that). Maybe we should have asked for less?
      Fact: F.S.G. promised to weigh up all the options before either building or refurbishing; that's what they're doing. Those options are each very complex. Wouldn't it be wiser, instead of just saying 'wait-see', to have the wit to actually wait and see?

      F.S.G. do not come out of the Suarez affair smelling of roses (in my opinion) and they'll have learned a hard lesson but to round on them for what they haven't done (yet) whilst ignoring what they have done is both churlish and puerile in equal measures.

      It's bad enough that the Mancs and the media are giving the club we all say we love a kicking without having to fend off Quislings. Stay strong, be patient and stay together Reds... our day is coming.  8)
      Big Andy
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2734 : Feb 15, 2012 09:53:23 am »
      Oh dear: What have the Romans ever done for us?

      Let's have a look...

      * Got rid of Hicks & Gillett

      * Got rid of a crippling debt.

      * Got rid of Hodgson.

      * Brought Kenny back.

      * Got rid of Purslow.

      * Re-united all but the most idiotic of 'fans' and brought belief back to the club.

      * Spent £100m plus on players whilst cutting out deadwood and players who didn't want to be with us.

      * Increased our revenue.

      * Raised our profile in the U.S.

      * Have conducted business in a highly professional manner.

      * Behaved with both dignity and respect.

      Alas tho'... they aren't wealthy oil tycoons, haven't built a new stadium (yet) oh and... they didn't sign Juan Mata - woe is me. They say patience is a virtue whilst greed and envy are 'deadly sins'; hmmm... How's that wealthy oil tycoon, his £50m striker and Juan Mata doing as of now?  :-\

      Fact: the wage bill was cut because we got rid of players who either were not good enough or wanted to play elsewhere. Was that wrong of F.S.G.?
      Fact: our net spend is lower because we were able to get good money for a bad lot (the oil tycoon can vouch for that). Maybe we should have asked for less?
      Fact: F.S.G. promised to weigh up all the options before either building or refurbishing; that's what they're doing. Those options are each very complex. Wouldn't it be wiser, instead of just saying 'wait-see', to have the wit to actually wait and see?

      F.S.G. do not come out of the Suarez affair smelling of roses (in my opinion) and they'll have learned a hard lesson but to round on them for what they haven't done (yet) whilst ignoring what they have done is both churlish and puerile in equal measures.

      It's bad enough that the Mancs and the media are giving the club we all say we love a kicking without having to fend off Quislings. Stay strong, be patient and stay together Reds... our day is coming.  8)
      And they have given Kenny freedom.
      Paisleydalglish
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2735 : Feb 15, 2012 09:57:35 am »
      And they have given Kenny freedom.

      He wont let them down... Gotta have some faith in his sound...
      Scottbot
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2736 : Feb 15, 2012 10:05:02 am »
      Facts we have a net spend of 30 million over 3 transfer windows less than hicks and Gillette first 3 windows.  We cut 30 million off the wage bill last summer. Absolutely no sign of a new stadium sorry if these facts seem negative. Posters can hide behind his negative argument all the want doesn't mean what im saying is wrong just a weak argument to get personal on other posters part. Dont think i made any sweeping comments on you rod or az.  Sick of people debates with me turning personal because people can't debate the points.  Srs the reason i probably havent responded is because ive had to spend most of my time defending myself for having an opinion.

      Think i'd also be inclined to wait until after the next transfer window mate before getting to concerned about any lack of investment. Let's be honest, the club got well and truly stung by the £35 million fee last January and I suspect that he would have cost around about the £20 million mark had we waited until the summer to go get him. I suspect the general consensus was "lets go with what we've got and spend some more in the summer". As for the stadium, no complaints from me on that front. Yes they're taking some time to explore all the options but they're keeping fans in the loop and we've been waiting so long now that another year or two hardly seems the biggest problem.
      Dannylfc
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2737 : Feb 15, 2012 10:31:10 am »
      I'll be honest, the whole concept of "net spend" gets on my tits, and while one may argue it doesn't lie, its also pretty misconceiving. Its effectively being used as a stick to beat the owners with, despite the fact its dependent on the amount of players who don't want to be here or are not good enough to be here. We've replaced the tw*ts who were in the first bracket (over £60 million worth of them), cleared out all the dead wood and then invested a further £30 million in to the squad. That isn't as disastrous as is being made out.

      The squad has practically been transformed within a year. But lets be honest, its not the lack of investment that has got certain people aggravated. Its the fact we didn't sign Juan Mata instead of Stewart Downing, Banega instead of Henderson or Sergio Aguero instead of Andy Carroll. Im afraid to say life is a bi*ch, we're here to support the team, not play football manager.
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2738 : Feb 15, 2012 10:37:03 am »
      Oh dear: What have the Romans ever done for us?

      Let's have a look...

      * Got rid of Hicks & Gillett

      * Got rid of a crippling debt.

      * Got rid of Hodgson.

      * Brought Kenny back.

      * Got rid of Purslow.

      * Re-united all but the most idiotic of 'fans' and brought belief back to the club.

      * Spent £100m plus on players whilst cutting out deadwood and players who didn't want to be with us.

      * Increased our revenue.

      * Raised our profile in the U.S.

      * Have conducted business in a highly professional manner.

      * Behaved with both dignity and respect.

      Alas tho'... they aren't wealthy oil tycoons, haven't built a new stadium (yet) oh and... they didn't sign Juan Mata - woe is me. They say patience is a virtue whilst greed and envy are 'deadly sins'; hmmm... How's that wealthy oil tycoon, his £50m striker and Juan Mata doing as of now?  :-\

      Fact: the wage bill was cut because we got rid of players who either were not good enough or wanted to play elsewhere. Was that wrong of F.S.G.?
      Fact: our net spend is lower because we were able to get good money for a bad lot (the oil tycoon can vouch for that). Maybe we should have asked for less?
      Fact: F.S.G. promised to weigh up all the options before either building or refurbishing; that's what they're doing. Those options are each very complex. Wouldn't it be wiser, instead of just saying 'wait-see', to have the wit to actually wait and see?

      F.S.G. do not come out of the Suarez affair smelling of roses (in my opinion) and they'll have learned a hard lesson but to round on them for what they haven't done (yet) whilst ignoring what they have done is both churlish and puerile in equal measures.

      It's bad enough that the Mancs and the media are giving the club we all say we love a kicking without having to fend off Quislings. Stay strong, be patient and stay together Reds... our day is coming.  8)

      This all day.

      Some people aren't happy unless they are pointing the finger and having a good moan.

      Leave that to The Bitters.
      s@int
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2739 : Feb 15, 2012 10:57:24 am »
      I am still unsure about FSG. For me they still have a lot to prove, but I am happy to wait and see at the moment. I would have liked to see a little more money pumped into the squad, the new stadium build started and maybe a little more support for Kenny  in recent times. However we have no debt, they haven't taken money out of the club and seem to be making the right noises about the new stadium.

      As the devil Purslow said in his infamous e-mail :- "To get it straight, I think we should avoid the natural temptation to jump straight in to the deal with NESV. Whilst they are charming, intelligent and credible their bid is by any standards at the extreme bottom end of the 'right deal' threshold we set for ourselves: it only reduces debt by less than half and is I feel unlikely to yield incremental equity to fund a stadium.

      "They may say they have money if necessary but I do not take this very seriously. Their eyes only lit up at the idea of other opportunity improvements. An American deal guy simply can't avoid using other people's money if they can.

      "There is no extra money on the table to enable short-term investment in what remains a squad palpably needing more quality if we are to be definitively top four. New American sport team owners with the senior guy being a hedge fund manager could not be worst [sic] from an image standpoint, which is an issue for us independents. I have not even talked about valuation. I leave that to other members of the board. So what is positive? Answer, they exist. Which is not a lot, but it is not to be underestimated in importance."


      I want to believe in our new owners, but fool me once shame on you, fool me twice......? So I will just wait and see.
      Paisleydalglish
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2740 : Feb 15, 2012 10:59:43 am »
      I'll be honest, the whole concept of "net spend" gets on my tits, and while one may argue it doesn't lie, its also pretty misconceiving.


      This.

      Do we think had the previous owners sold Torres for 50m we would have seen it re-invested?
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2741 : Feb 15, 2012 11:05:53 am »
      Net spend is paramount lets not try and dress it up any other way.

      We used net Spend to defend Rafa at all costs so we can't change that now just to suit arguments.

      FSG are good owners, they've just made a monumental f**k up in the handling of the Suarez affair, but its their first stint of dealing with such an episode in the English Media where its ten times worse and ten times more verocious than it is in the states, they will learn from this.

      So lets move on as until this incident most were content with their ownership.

      Lets see where we are in 3 or 4 years under their stewardship other than 18 months down line.
      racerx34
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2742 : Feb 15, 2012 11:36:50 am »
      Net spend is paramount lets not try and dress it up any other way.

      We used net Spend to defend Rafa at all costs so we can't change that now just to suit arguments.

      FSG are good owners, they've just made a monumental f**k up in the handling of the Suarez affair, but its their first stint of dealing with such an episode in the English Media where its ten times worse and ten times more verocious than it is in the states, they will learn from this.

      So lets move on as until this incident most were content with their ownership.

      Lets see where we are in 3 or 4 years under their stewardship other than 18 months down line.

      Net spend is fine.
      We need a net spend if we are to progress as a club.
      Otherwise we will stand still as the likes of Manchester City and Tottenham overtake us.

      That is what happened under h&g.
      Stripping of assets like Alonso and Keane (Financial asset in the latter) and not replacing them,
      while at the time City and Spurs started to invest in the squads.

      So to level a net spend analysis at our previous owners is understandable.
      What I don't understand is how, when we didn't use the wage bill as an argument before, we
      are using the wage bill as an argument now. Smacks of double accounting to me.

      Also we must factor in the players that have left.
      I would have understood the argument if we leveled it upon losing the likes of Alonso,
      but to use it when we have offloaded the likes of Cole, Poulson, Konchelsky, Ngog, Insua, Jovanovic...
      Madness.

      The damage was done in
      08/09 £6,250,000
      09/10 -£8,650,000
      10/11 -£5,150,000   

      In the summer we had a net spend of £35,350,000.

      To suggest three seasons of damage can be repaired in one go is insane.   
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2743 : Feb 15, 2012 11:39:49 am »
      To suggest three seasons of damage can be repaired in one go is insane.

      Exactly mate, it took City a good 3 years to start making a serious impression and lets be honest we have a better platform to build on than what they did.
      waltonl4
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2744 : Feb 15, 2012 11:41:09 am »
      we don thave a squad to match City,UTD or even Spurs so what doe sthat mean that with our present rate of player investment the best we can hope for is a top 4 place ?.
      I don't see anything to suggest we are going to invest money at the required level and we are as we have been for the past 20 years 4 players of sufficient quality to win the league.Our best X1 is good but if you take out 1 or 2 key players we look weak.
      The Cup comps are our only real opportunity unless the fair play rules are strictly adhered to which may take upto 10 years to properly enforce.
      This is not meant to be a dig at the owners or in any way negative towards them but the way I see our immediate future.Enjoy Wembley and enjoy every bit of success we can achieve.
      Paisleydalglish
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2745 : Feb 15, 2012 11:43:03 am »
      Exactly mate, it took City a good 3 years to start making a serious impression and lets be honest we have a better platform to build on than what they did.

      Apart from the stadium, exactly right.
      corballyred
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2746 : Feb 15, 2012 11:44:48 am »
      I agree with blood i hope people saying net spend doesn't matter weren't using it to defend Rafa
      racerx34
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2747 : Feb 15, 2012 11:45:44 am »
      City's spend in the same time.
      To show their rise as we slid.

      08/09 £117,900,000
      09/10 £99,000,000
      10/11 £126,500,000
      11/12 £48,250,000
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2748 : Feb 15, 2012 11:48:08 am »
      I think some of you lads need to give the owners a break. From a neutral point of view they haven't done bad. It could be worse! you could still have the old owners here.  ;)
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2749 : Feb 15, 2012 11:53:10 am »
      I don't see anything to suggest we are going to invest money at the required level and we are as we have been for the past 20 years 4 players of sufficient quality to win the league.Our best X1 is good but if you take out 1 or 2 key players we look weak.

      I don't know mate, they said they would make what ever money the club generates available, so taking that into consideration we've cut £30m from teh wage bill this year, so that should be available, we have the standard chartered money, that should be available, then what ever other sponsorships endorsements, left over gate etc etc should be available.

      We may see another big splurge this summer with only some of our more senior aging players such as Aurelio and Maxi leaving.

      Its not beyond the realms of possibility, that now we've got the English spine to our squad, we'll be topped up with quality imports in key areas to help us make the next progressive leap.
      racerx34
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2750 : Feb 15, 2012 11:57:50 am »
      Against that:
      Arsenal hardly ever have positive net spend and United haven't even spent all the Ronaldo money.

      Interesting to see Spurs net spend for this year.
      Shows that if you buy the right players you don't need to blow millions.
      That or they've got a problem next year when Adebayor is gone, Parker's knees go and Friedel nears the end of his career.

      Season 11/12 -£27,000,000
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2751 : Feb 15, 2012 12:27:40 pm »
      Net spend is paramount lets not try and dress it up any other way.

      We used net Spend to defend Rafa at all costs so we can't change that now just to suit arguments.

      Of course net spend is relevant Blood but whether we like it or not there are very real, very clear and very different causes behind "low" net spend. These 'causes' are fact mate not an attempt to dress anything up. In fact the real dressing up of net spend only comes when one choses to ignore them. Which, to be fair, you haven't.

      Spot the difference folks:

      * Net spend under Hicks & Gillett (in both the Rafa and Hodgson eras) was "low" only because we sold quality players, at a high price, replacing them with players of lower cost - with the rest going to pay down debt. That's fact.

      * Net spend under F.S.G. is "low" only because we got rid of a sh*t load of deadwood and players who wanted to play elsewhere. We replaced them with players who were of a high quality and high price - none of the profits disappeared to pay off debt. That's fact too.

      When we look at 'net spend' in a logical, honest, manner we can see that only the slowest among us won't see there is a massive difference in the causes of "low" 'net spend'. The fact that those with an agenda against F.S.G. won't admit to there being a difference doesn't mean there isn't one.

      The reasons behind "low" net 'spend' matter more that the 'spend' it's self. Surely we're all intelligent enough to accept that?

      I guess now that we've debated the 'arguments' against F.S.G. and exposed the hyperbole it'll be time to move on.  ;)
      « Last Edit: Feb 15, 2012 12:43:21 pm by bad boy bubby »
      corballyred
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2752 : Feb 15, 2012 12:30:14 pm »
      I personally never said we had bad owners just dont think they have the finance to get us back challenging for titles. Like arsenal i think we will be a well run business but like arsenal i dont expect us to be competing for titles. Personally i think for their plan to work spend what we make we needed a serious investment from them on the playing side something we have yet to see

      I think the city comparsion is a poor one as well our owners are not prepared to spend what Citys owners are so unlike city we are not able to make the same mistakes in the transfer market something we did last summer. This summer will tell us a lot about Fsg

      That is my final say on the matter for now I'll let others debate how negative i am to make themselves feel better.
      racerx34
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2753 : Feb 15, 2012 12:49:52 pm »
      I personally never said we had bad owners just dont think they have the finance to get us back challenging for titles. Like arsenal i think we will be a well run business but like arsenal i dont expect us to be competing for titles. Personally i think for their plan to work spend what we make we needed a serious investment from them on the playing side something we have yet to see

      I think the city comparsion is a poor one as well our owners are not prepared to spend what Citys owners are so unlike city we are not able to make the same mistakes in the transfer market something we did last summer. This summer will tell us a lot about Fsg

      That is my final say on the matter for now I'll let others debate how negative i am to make themselves feel better.

      The City comparison was to show our owners draining money from the club couldn't have come at a worse time.
      That is all.

      We all know that we won't see that level of investment, but at a time when we started to make profits in the transfer market
      Manchester City were investing hundreds of millions.
      Is it any wonder we have dropped to fighting for 4th in such a small matter of time.
      crouchinho
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2754 : Feb 15, 2012 01:39:45 pm »
      I agree with blood i hope people saying net spend doesn't matter weren't using it to defend Rafa

      So argue the other points instead of one liners consisting of bland arguments and repetitive drivel.

      Your point consists of;

      - Net spend

      - Lack of news about a stadium

      - Cost cutting in terms of reducing the wage bill

      These points have been debated and yet you incessantly rehash them in your posts without a peep of discussion to go along with them. If you feel so strongly about these issues, explain why and highlight how the owners could of done a better job instead of just mentioning your concerns without reasoning.

      A dogs bark never changes.
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2755 : Feb 15, 2012 02:36:22 pm »
      Of course net spend is relevant Blood but whether we like it or not there are very real, very clear and very different causes behind "low" net spend. These 'causes' are fact mate not an attempt to dress anything up. In fact the real dressing up of net spend only comes when one choses to ignore them. Which, to be fair, you haven't.

      Spot the difference folks:

      * Net spend under Hicks & Gillett (in both the Rafa and Hodgson eras) was "low" only because we sold quality players, at a high price, replacing them with players of lower cost - with the rest going to pay down debt. That's fact.

      * Net spend under F.S.G. is "low" only because we got rid of a sh*t load of deadwood and players who wanted to play elsewhere. We replaced them with players who were of a high quality and high price - none of the profits disappeared to pay off debt. That's fact too.

      When we look at 'net spend' in a logical, honest, manner we can see that only the slowest among us won't see there is a massive difference in the causes of "low" 'net spend'. The fact that those with an agenda against F.S.G. won't admit to there being a difference doesn't mean there isn't one.

      The reasons behind "low" net 'spend' matter more that the 'spend' it's self. Surely we're all intelligent enough to accept that?

      I guess now that we've debated the 'arguments' against F.S.G. and exposed the hyperbole it'll be time to move on.  ;)
      Have to say you make a very good point
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2756 : Feb 15, 2012 02:55:48 pm »
      Ive actually given my points for everyone of the points and a look above will show that I havent just mentioned cost cutting stadium and net spend crouch like your trying to portray. I understand my views may upset some people because i dont buy into the we have brilliant owners argument. I tend to need to see evidence for this.
      racerx34
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2757 : Feb 15, 2012 02:57:07 pm »
      Ive actually given my points for everyone of the points and a look above will show that I havent just mentioned cost cutting stadium and net spend crouch like your trying to portray. I understand my views may upset some people because i dont buy into the we have brilliant owners argument. I tend to need to see evidence for this.

      The only problem with the arguments in this case is it is difficult to argue a policy based on long term gains when judged in the short term.
      corballyred
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2758 : Feb 15, 2012 03:02:39 pm »
      See im giving facts people are countering it with assumptions.  I need to see facts and evidence before i start backing people.  Ive learned a lot from the last owners.  Action not talk is what i want to see.
      Roddenberry
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • 15,108 posts | 1153 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2759 : Feb 15, 2012 03:04:38 pm »
      Exactly mate, it took City a good 3 years to start making a serious impression and lets be honest we have a better platform to build on than what they did.

      Some people are just so impatient and want it now or it's not good enough.  Work in progress and this thread has been dragged down by an unwarranted, at present, wave of pessimism.

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