NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

Yea I didn't mention him as he's a bit further behind in his development than the other two mate but your right.

I think it's the same squad as last season minus Gini but with Konate if I'm correct?

Plus Elliott, minus Shaq

You are hard work mate but I'll try one last time.

You replied the following when quoting another poster who was saying that maybe Jürgen is happy with the transfer business this summer:

It is strange that Jürgen seems happy with a state of affairs that sees LFC not strengthening a side that succumbed to injuries last term while our rivals have all signed players that will hopefully improve their chances.

And what I'm saying is that we have strengthened the side that succumbed to injuries last term.

To spell it out clearly as well we had a horrendous run of injuries at CB last year and bought a CB for over £30M to solve that.

Again injuries to CB last year and this summer we bought a CB to alleviate this happening again.

I could try and draw a picture or something if that helps? As for someone who uses so many big words you don't seem to grasp the simplest of sentences.

I’m hard work?!?
F**k me how if we did “strengthen” why did we finish well off the pace, runners up, losers, none winners etc.
WE DID NOT STRENGTHEN!!

I’m hard work?!?
F**k me how if we did “strengthen” did we finish well off the pace, runners up, losers, none winners etc.

I'm done.

Anyone reading the thread can make up their own minds if I'm going crazy or you just can't understand what you are writing

You are hard work mate but I'll try one last time.

You replied the following when quoting another poster who was saying that maybe Jürgen is happy with the transfer business this summer:

It is strange that Jürgen seems happy with a state of affairs that sees LFC not strengthening a side that succumbed to injuries last term while our rivals have all signed players that will hopefully improve their chances.

And what I'm saying is that we have strengthened the side that succumbed to injuries last term.

To spell it out clearly as well we had a horrendous run of injuries at CB last year and bought a CB for over £30M to solve that.

Again injuries to CB last year and this summer we bought a CB to alleviate this happening again.

I could try and draw a picture or something if that helps? As for someone who uses so many big words you don't seem to grasp the simplest of sentences.

What's an ouster

We signed Konate, and that's great, he looks a player, but you could argue we should have done that when Lovren left last summer. We might still not have challenged last season given the extent of the injuries, but it couldn't have hurt. People pointed that out at the time too, this isn't hindsight.

Also, it's great to have Konate - but he's not in the first XI.

We've lost our most regular first XI player, who has not been replaced.
Though am sure someone will say Thaigo was his replacement a year early, even though Gini and Thiago played in the same team > 20 times in 20/21.
By that reckoning, Konate is just replacement for Matip or some other CB who is going to leave next season!!
Don't buy that theory.

Shaq is gone too, though shouldn't impact much/the first XI.

If Jürgen had some funds, he would have someone in mind to bring in. Doesn't have to be 50mill or 80mill or silly money. Any manager would want to freshen things up. But the money's not there.

I don't think that he is, how could he be.
He's hardly going to criticise the owners in public.
And he knows players are listening and wants to be positive and make them 'believe'.
He has though stated that we don't have the money to spend, and that we are limited financially - which is obviously stating the facts, but it is also highlighting the point that we can't compete with others in that regard, which is you could interpret as an inherent criticism.

Why wouldn’t he be happy 🤷‍♂️


Just because some fans won’t this and that player doesn’t mean the manager does

And he is just pointing out facts about other clubs when they spend because he gets asked about our transfers


When he does mention the oil clubs wealth the critisim imo isn’t towards our owners more towards the clubs just spending


If Klopp wasn’t happy with the model he wouldn’t have joined the club and he wouldn’t have extended his contract

I'm done.

Anyone reading the thread can make up their own minds if I'm going crazy or you just can't understand what you are writing

It’s ok - he thinks he is talking about last summer again trying to change tact when it’s clear his post and the conversation was about this window.

If Klopp wasn’t happy with the model he wouldn’t have joined the club and he wouldn’t have extended his contract

I thought Klopp walked in one day and appointed himself, and a few years later extended his own contract? Sorry if I’m ignorant of the facts. Do clarify and correct me if I’m wrong.

Obviously have to see how things pan out over the course of the season but can't help but feel a bit disappointed at the moment.

Feels like this window was a missed opportunity for us whilst others have strengthened significantly. Hampered ourselves in the short term with the lack of attacking options and I can't help but be a bit worried for the future as 7 of our 'first choice' XI will be 30 by next summer.

I'm sure people will say it was probably Jürgen's decision not to spend (and that we're fine for depth) but the fact two of the back up options are Origi (who's barely played in 18 months) and Minamino (who was loaned out in January) makes me think it wasn't.

Just have to hope we stay injury free and Mane/Bobby find some form and see where it takes us.

‘Snidely’ that your word of the day..? 😂

Look, I’ll jump back onto my bandwagon & you tuck yourself in with a warm blanket & pipe, I think you having less social interaction due to lockdown is clearly been of no benefit to you..

Back on topic...

So reports suggesting Klopp can’t register a 25 man squad this season...

https://twitter.com/livecholfc/status/1433047331050504200?s=21

I think that Echo article gets it wrong, as we can only name a 23 man squad, not 24 as they say in the article.

That Echo article lists Joe Gomez as "CT" (Club trained), as shown in bold in the quoted squad below. However, according to UEFA rules players have to spend 3 years at a club prior to turning 21 to count as club-trained. Gomez turned 18 on May 24th, 2018 - 37 days before joining Liverpool, so technically he missed out on fulfilling 3 years at the club before turning 21, by 37 days. Gomez thus counts as an association-trained player, and that means that Nat Phillips or Origi need to be left out of the CL squad which can include a maximum of 23 players on the A List.

Liverpool 2021/22 potential Champions League squad in full

Goalkeepers: Alisson, Adrian, Caoimhin Kelleher (CT).

Defenders: Virgil van Dijk, Ibrahima Konate, Joe Gomez (CT), Kostas Tsimikas, Andy Robertson, Joel Matip, Nat Phillips (AT), Trent Alexander-Arnold (CT).

Midfielders: Fabinho, Thiago Alcantara, James Milner (AT), Naby Keita, Jordan Henderson (AT), Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (AT), Harvey Elliott (AT).

Forwards: Roberto Firmino, Sadio Mane, Mohamed Salah, Takumi Minamino, Diogo Jota, Divock Origi.

Senior 'List B' players: Curtis Jones, Neco Williams.

Including Gomez we have 6 association trained players for only 4 such spaces, so one of Elliott/Phillips/Henderson/Milner/Gomez/Ox need to be listed as part of the 17 non-homegrown players (eg. Elliott) and one of them needs to be omitted entirely (eg. Phillips).

Non-homegrown (up to 17)
1. Alisson
2. Adrian
3. Van Dijk
4. Matip
5. Konate
6. Robertson
7. Tsimikas
8. Fabinho
9. Thiago
10. Keita
11. Firmino
12. Mane
13. Salah
14. Jota
15. Minamino
16. Origi
17. Elliott - Note: he hasn't been at LFC for 3 years yet so he isn't considered club-trained by UEFA. One of Henderson/Gomez/Milner/Ox/Elliott/Phillips need to be in the non-homegrown list as there are only 4 spaces in the FA trained list below, hence why Elliott is listed here.

FA trained (player trained 3 years at English club prior to turning 21)
18. Henderson
19. Gomez
20. Milner
21. Ox

Club trained (player must have spent 3 years at LFC prior to turning 21)
22. Kelleher
23. Alexander Arnold
24.
25.

U21 and club-trained (unlimited)
- Neco Williams
- Curtis Jones

Omitted: Karius, Phillips (no space in the FA-trained list or 17 homegrown spaces).


--------

For clarity, there are no such issues with the PL squad, as by FA standards Elliott counts as a U21 so he doesn't have to be registered in the senior PL squad. The PL squad also has 8 spots for homegrown players, rather than 4 homegrown and 4 club-trained like in the UEFA squad, which means that the likes of Origi, Karius, and Phillips can be included in our domestic squad, as shown below:

Non-homegrown (up to 17)
1. Alisson
2. Adrian
3. Van Dijk
4. Matip
5. Konate
6. Robertson
7. Tsimikas
8. Fabinho
9. Thiago
10. Keita
11. Firmino
12. Mane
13. Salah
14. Jota
15. Minamino
16. Origi
17. Karius

Homegrown (up to 8 )
18. Kelleher
19. Gomez
20. Phillips
21. Alexander Arnold
22. Henderson
23. Ox
24. Milner
25.

U21 (unlimited)
- Neco Williams
- Curtis Jones
- Harvey Elliott

I think that Echo article gets it wrong, as we can only name a 23 man squad, not 24 as they say in the article.

That Echo article lists Joe Gomez as "CT" (Club trained), as shown in bold in the quoted squad below. However, according to UEFA rules players have to spend 3 years at a club prior to turning 21 to count as club-trained. Gomez turned 18 on May 24th, 2018 - 37 days before joining Liverpool, so technically he missed out on fulfilling 3 years at the club before turning 21, by 37 days. Gomez thus counts as an association-trained player, and that means that Nat Phillips or Origi need to be left out of the CL squad which can include a maximum of 23 players on the A List.

Including Gomez we have 6 association trained players for only 4 such spaces, so one of Elliott/Phillips/Henderson/Milner/Gomez/Ox need to be listed as part of the 17 non-homegrown players (eg. Elliott) and one of them needs to be omitted entirely (eg. Phillips).

Non-homegrown (up to 17)
1. Alisson
2. Adrian
3. Van Dijk
4. Matip
5. Konate
6. Robertson
7. Tsimikas
8. Fabinho
9. Thiago
10. Keita
11. Firmino
12. Mane
13. Salah
14. Jota
15. Minamino
16. Origi
17. Elliott - Note: he hasn't been at LFC for 3 years yet so he isn't considered club-trained by UEFA. One of Henderson/Gomez/Milner/Ox/Elliott/Phillips need to be in the non-homegrown list as there are only 4 spaces in the FA trained list below, hence why Elliott is listed here.

FA trained (player trained 3 years at English club prior to turning 21)
18. Henderson
19. Gomez
20. Milner
21. Ox

Club trained (player must have spent 3 years at LFC prior to turning 21)
22. Kelleher
23. Alexander Arnold
24.
25.

U21 and club-trained (unlimited)
- Neco Williams
- Curtis Jones

Omitted: Karius, Phillips (no space in the FA-trained list or 17 homegrown spaces).


--------

For clarity, there are no such issues with the PL squad, as by FA standards Elliott counts as a U21 so he doesn't have to be registered in the senior PL squad. The PL squad also has 8 spots for homegrown players, rather than 4 homegrown and 4 club-trained like in the UEFA squad, which means that the likes of Origi, Karius, and Phillips can be included in our domestic squad, as shown below:

Non-homegrown (up to 17)
1. Alisson
2. Adrian
3. Van Dijk
4. Matip
5. Konate
6. Robertson
7. Tsimikas
8. Fabinho
9. Thiago
10. Keita
11. Firmino
12. Mane
13. Salah
14. Jota
15. Minamino
16. Origi
17. Karius

Homegrown (up to 8 )
18. Kelleher
19. Gomez
20. Phillips
21. Alexander Arnold
22. Henderson
23. Ox
24. Milner
25.

U21 (unlimited)
- Neco Williams
- Curtis Jones
- Harvey Elliott

Further to the squad lists above, the fact that the club are in a position where they will be leaving a player out of the CL squad certainly played a part in Klopp saying that "we don't need more players". Phillips is likely going to be the one omitted from the CL squad, and an additional signing would have pushed one of Origi or Elliott out of the CL squad as well. That clearly isn't something that makes logical or financial sense so in that light Klopp's comments about squad numbers make perfect sense.

Looks like Jones doesn’t need to be registered- conflicting reports that because he turns 21 during the season he would need to be registered

Curtis doesn't have to be registered in the A List as he's born after January 1st 2000 which is the cut off that UEFA use according to their website.

That said, even if he did need to be registered it would make no practical difference as there will be two "club-trained" spaces in our A List unused anyways, so if he fills one of those spots or falls on the B List the squad will be the same (see my post above with the squad lists for reference).

A good thread to read….

https://twitter.com/mochatra/status/1433154030549835780?s=21

A good thread to read….

https://twitter.com/mochatra/status/1433154030549835780?s=21

Here is another thread that’s worth a read


https://twitter.com/royhendo/status/1433025730959532032?s=21

Bollox there is a f**king joke who makes it up as he goes along, "this is the best side I've seen in over 50 years" he bullshits.
So that means it is superior to Bob Paisley's 3 x Europen, League Champions side then?
Let the f**king idiot ramble on.

Haha that’s certainly some bullshit statement he clearly didn’t watch us in the 80’s.

I think most sensible LFC fans recognise that the owners are very risk averse, hence the frustration at how a little investment would have all angles covered.

Another forward/attacking midfielder would have covered so many scenarios but instead we go into the season relying on Mane to get back to form, Salah staying fit and Bobby to start scoring again after a two year drought.

A good thread to read….

https://twitter.com/mochatra/status/1433154030549835780?s=21

Interesting because this cat usually defends FSG’s spending strategy.

A good thread to read….

https://twitter.com/mochatra/status/1433154030549835780?s=21

I enjoyed the subtle dig at Pearce et al... 

Mo Chatra
@MoChatra
Instead, they're all dead in the water so it does ask fundamental questions of what FSG's long-term strategy now is to compete. That, my friends, is a question that LFC's patch journalists need to be discussing and even asking the owners directly.

See, for too long, numerous patch reporters have been happy to check their journalistic integrity in for access and, in turn, have consented to acting as an extension to Susan Black's Communications Team. Rather than regurgitate club-fed pro-ownership propaganda...

... the time has come for them to instead ask some very fundamental questions about what the club can achieve with FSG's current operating model.

Mo Chatra
@MoChatra
·
15h
Another issue we have is that in order to generate transfer funds, healthy player sales are required. However, the manager seems reluctant to lose players that brought him success and we are therefore missing out on significant transfer fees for players just before their legs go.

This is an interesting topic.

Should the club have looked to sell Mane or Firmino this window, with 2 years left on their contracts - the optimum time to sell before value recedes going into the last 12-18 months of a deal?

Perhaps that was the plan in order to rejuvenate the front line, but this market may have made that plan difficult, as the clubs who would typically drop big sums for players like that (eg. Madrid and Barcelona) have not been big spenders this window - quite the contrary in fact. The other big spender PSG have spent their load on Messi and have a stocked forward line already.

In the absence of big spenders abroad should FSG have looked to sell players domestically to rivals to fund incomings? Certainly not.

Another issue is one of availability of targets. If the idea is to sell an older player on an expiring contract (eg. Mane/Firmino), who would replace them in this window? Options like Daka would be a downgrade in the short term so wouldn't really work as this team is built to win now.

Obviously have to see how things pan out over the course of the season but can't help but feel a bit disappointed at the moment.

Feels like this window was a missed opportunity for us whilst others have strengthened significantly. Hampered ourselves in the short term with the lack of attacking options and I can't help but be a bit worried for the future as 7 of our 'first choice' XI will be 30 by next summer.

I'm sure people will say it was probably Jürgen's decision not to spend (and that we're fine for depth) but the fact two of the back up options are Origi (who's barely played in 18 months) and Minamino (who was loaned out in January) makes me think it wasn't.

Just have to hope we stay injury free and Mane/Bobby find some form and see where it takes us.

I think most sensible LFC fans recognise that the owners are very risk averse, hence the frustration at how a little investment would have all angles covered.

Another forward/attacking midfielder would have covered so many scenarios but instead we go into the season relying on Mane to get back to form, Salah staying fit and Bobby to start scoring again after a two year drought.

Signing another attacker would entail having to leave one of Origi/Minamino/Elliott out of the CL squad (on top of Phillips who will surely be omitted as is). Is that something you guys would do?

Signing another attacker would entail having to leave one of Origi/Minamino/Elliott out of the CL squad (on top of Phillips who will surely be omitted as is). Is that something you guys would do?

I would drop Origi if we bought in another attacker, one of the reason s he still here we never had cover upfront, We loose Bobby/Jota to injury we can’t expect the others to carry the load, last season we had issues upfront when they couldn’t find the back of the net at times..

https://tomkinstimes.com/2021/09/liverpools-successful-summer-squad-harmony-and-a-more-important-type-of-signing/

https://tomkinstimes.com/2021/09/liverpools-successful-summer-squad-harmony-and-a-more-important-type-of-signing/

Cba reading Tomkins but I wouldnt call it a successful summer even in terms of outgoings. It was common knowledge Origi, Phillips, Karius, Minamino had prices put on their heads and all of which are still here.

That failure to sell those players will ultimately have had knock on effects in our ability to buy.

There's something about us that seems a bit stale at the moment and while we will win a lot of football matches still it doesn't feel the same as when we were ready to win major trophies 3 seasons ago.

The nucleus of the side is the same as it was 3 years ago but players are getting older, new ideas and fresh faces are few and far between.

Fans are back and that brings a bounce to the games, yet something just isn't quite right. 

One thing we can all agree on is we cant keep ticking over for the next few seasons without significant investment in the playing squad.

A lot of key players hitting 30 and I've always thought they would gradually introduce year on year new ayers into the team. Its not happened and while there was a time we could have integrated and transitioned gradually over time that window seems to be closing year on year of inactivity. 

I'd say next Summer we have to get a move on or we are going to be losing our entire front 3, manager, best centrre half and an ageing captains on field influence in 1 big summer blow.

Not something Klopp has to worry about if he's not interested in life for us after him (I doubt that), but something we the fans will all suffer with for years to come.

Cba reading Tomkins but I wouldnt call it a successful summer even in terms of outgoings. It was common knowledge Origi, Phillips, Karius, Minamino had prices put on their heads and all of which are still here.

That failure to sell those players will ultimately have had knock on effects in our ability to buy.

There's something about us that seems a bit stale at the moment and while we will win a lot of football matches still it doesn't feel the same as when we were ready to win major trophies 3 seasons ago.

The nucleus of the side is the same as it was 3 years ago but players are getting older, new ideas and fresh faces are few and far between.

Fans are back and that brings a bounce to the games, yet something just isn't quite right. 

One thing we can all agree on is we cant keep ticking over for the next few seasons without significant investment in the playing squad.

A lot of key players hitting 30 and I've always thought they would gradually introduce year on year new ayers into the team. Its not happened and while there was a time we could have integrated and transitioned gradually over time that window seems to be closing year on year of inactivity. 

I'd say next Summer we have to get a move on or we are going to be losing our entire front 3, manager, best centrre half and an ageing captains on field influence in 1 big summer blow.

Not something Klopp has to worry about if he's not interested in life for us after him (I doubt that), but something we the fans will all suffer with for years to come.

Who would you have signed this window?