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      NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

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      RedWilly
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22954: Aug 17, 2017 08:15:47 pm
      Actually, that is exactly what he did at Dortmund

      No it's not. He did that against 1 opponent. Here we are up against another 4 or 5 teams.

      To think he can do that is ludicrous. Don't buy into this 'we can't compete with them financially' bollocks.

      We can't compete on every player, no. But we can certainly be bringing in 1 or 2 60mill players each summer WITHOUT having to sell first.

      Why tie our managers hands unnecessarily?
      AZPatriot
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22955: Aug 17, 2017 08:19:30 pm
      No it's not. He did that against 1 opponent. Here we are up against another 4 or 5 teams.

      To think he can do that is ludicrous. Don't buy into this 'we can't compete with them financially' bollocks.

      We can't compete on every player, no. But we can certainly be bringing in 1 or 2 60mill players each summer WITHOUT having to sell first.

      Why tie our managers hands unnecessarily?

      So was the bid on Keita just a head-fake by ownership or did will try to bring in a 60 mil player?

      And if it was not a head fake then is this idea of there is no plan B only plan A the owenership handcuffing the manager or is he doing it to himself?
      RedWilly
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22956: Aug 17, 2017 08:23:12 pm
      So was the bid on Keita just a head-fake by ownership or did will try to bring in a 60 mil player?

      And if it was not a head fake then is this idea of there is no plan B only plan A the owenership handcuffing the manager or is he doing it to himself?


      So now we use bids for players that we haven't signed as evidence of backing? How about we, you know...actually sign the player before we hold that up as evidence of backing.

      I'll believe it when I see him in a red shirt and will come back here and hold my hands up but something tells me we will only make a big signing once Coutinho is gone. Which is not the point.
      « Last Edit: Aug 17, 2017 08:30:05 pm by RedWilly »
      AZPatriot
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22957: Aug 17, 2017 08:30:35 pm
      So now we use bids for players that we haven't signed as evidence of backing? How about you know...actually signing the player before we hold that up as evidence of backing.

      I'll believe it when I see him in a red shirt and will come back here and hold my hands up but something tells me we will only make a big signing once Coutinho is gone. Which is not the point.

      OK well you can't have it both ways....I got news for you John Henry is not concerning himself with getting transfers done....I am sure they set a budget and tell Edwards and Klopp...here's your budget.

      Transfers happen and they don't...the question is if the budget is there...at who does the finger get pointed at for not going to another target.

      Chelsea, United and other seem to have multiple players lined up if another can't get done.

      Where or who do you think the issue issue is because seemingly we have had 3 targets all Summer...Salah...VVD...K eita

      We got one...we bid on the 2nd...and god knows where the other one is going to end up.

      Is the manager being handcuffed and being told you can spend 60 million on Keita but you can't spend 40 million on this other player?

      Or

      Does the manager only want that one player and no other?


      It's a valid question.
      RedWilly
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22958: Aug 17, 2017 08:34:09 pm
      OK well you can't have it both ways....I got news for you John Henry is not concerning himself with getting transfers done....I am sure they set a budget and tell Edwards and Klopp...here's your budget.

      Transfers happen and they don't...the question is if the budget is there...at who does the finger get pointed at for not going to another target.

      Chelsea, United and other seem to have multiple players lined up if another can't get done.

      Where or who do you think the issue issue is because seemingly we have had 3 targets all Summer...Salah...VVD...K eita

      We got one...we bid on the 2nd...and god knows where the other one is going to end up.

      Is the manager being handcuffed and being told you can spend 60 million on Keita but you can't spend 40 million on this other player?

      Or

      Does the manager only want that one player and no other?


      It's a valid question.

      It is a valid question but it's one we can't answer because we don't know. But all we can base our assumptions on is what has gone before. And since they have been here we have continually fu**ed up in the transfer market and I think that is difficult to dispute. We continually lowball other clubs by all accounts and find new and ingenious ways to F**k them up (VVD being a spectacular example).

      Forgive me for being pessimistic but my goodwill with this lot ran out a long time ago.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22959: Aug 17, 2017 08:43:06 pm
      It is a valid question but it's one we can't answer because we don't know. But all we can base our assumptions on is what has gone before. And since they have been here we have continually fu**ed up in the transfer market and I think that is difficult to dispute. We continually lowball other clubs by all accounts and find new and ingenious ways to f**k them up (VVD being a spectacular example).

      Forgive me for being pessimistic but my goodwill with this lot ran out a long time ago.

      Well there is nothing wrong with being pessimistic and we do have a flair for screwing things up.

      Keita for example...before the window started the price was supposedly around €50,000,000 or so (I remember this clearly) ...within a few weeks of the window opening the price was supposedly now at €70,000,000...Our first bid was £57,000,000 followed up by a bid of £66,000,000 a few weeks later; now this being for a player that had played 1 year in the Bundesliga and cost RBL €11,000,000 12 months prior.

      So again if we were willing to spend £66,000,000 for Keita...one would think if there was another mid-fielder out there for £50-70 million we should be looking right?

      I do not think this is not wanting to spend money...I do believe that Edwards is the wrong guy to get deals done, and I am starting to believe Jürgen needs to be a bit more flexible in bringing players in...there should always be a plan B or a plan C.
      RedWilly
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22960: Aug 17, 2017 08:47:52 pm
      Well there is nothing wrong with being pessimistic and we do have a flair for screwing things up.

      Keita for example...before the window started the price was supposedly around €50,000,000 or so (I remember this clearly) ...within a few weeks of the window opening the price was supposedly now at €70,000,000...Our first bid was £57,000,000 followed up by a bid of £66,000,000 a few weeks later; now this being for a player that had played 1 year in the Bundesliga and cost RBL €11,000,000 12 months prior.

      So again if we were willing to spend £66,000,000 for Keita...one would think if there was another mid-fielder out there for £50-70 million we should be looking right?

      I do not think this is not wanting to spend money...I do believe that Edwards is the wrong guy to get deals done, and I am starting to believe Jürgen needs to be a bit more flexible in bringing players in...there should always be a plan B or a plan C.

      We do need a plan B and C, I agree. But we tend to go from one extreme to the other, our plan B and C a few years ago were Balotelli and Lambert which just smacked of a case of 'just get someone through the door' to this window where it is plan A or nothing.

      I think there is a bit of everything involved personally. A very poor execution of strategy and a strategy that is also tying our hands. What is 'more' responsible is up for debate but it's been an issue since FSG arrived.
      FL Red
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22961: Aug 17, 2017 08:51:10 pm
      The owners are ultimately in charge. If they can't hire competent individuals, whether that be the director of football, the CEO or the manager...then they should see themselves out. Simple as.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22962: Aug 17, 2017 08:51:24 pm
      We do need a plan B and C, I agree. But we tend to go from one extreme to the other, our plan B and C a few years ago were Balotelli and Lambert which just smacked of a case of 'just get someone through the door' to this window where it is plan A or nothing.

      I think there is a bit of everything involved personally. A very poor execution of strategy and a strategy that is also tying our hands. What is 'more' responsible is up for debate but it's been an issue since FSG arrived.

      Yup...I agree with you...everybody from ownership to the manager has got a piece of this mess.

      I understand the manger does not do crap players...He is not going to go get a Balotelli & Lambert....he would rather bring nobody in than do that.

      Same time though one would think there has to be some players (even in different positions) that could improve the team or give the manager some more flexibility to move pieces around.
      king kenny
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22963: Aug 17, 2017 09:01:22 pm
      At the moment it is all bad news we are hanging on to Coutinho.  We really need to get something done as it stands we are aiming mid table.  The worse scenerio we lose Coutinho towards the end it will be panick. 
      Eddieo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22964: Aug 17, 2017 09:24:18 pm
      So now we use bids for players that we haven't signed as evidence of backing?
      Some have been using failed bids as evidence for several year and I expect they will continue to use failed bids as evidence as long as FSG are here

      Beerbelly
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22965: Aug 17, 2017 11:04:01 pm
      Some have been using failed bids as evidence for several year and I expect they will continue to use failed bids as evidence as long as FSG are here

      Yup.

      Commercial.com
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22966: Aug 22, 2017 03:12:02 pm
      Was going to put this in 'General Transfer Rumours' saying as it's quiet and all but it will fit here too. A bit of fun - who do you reckon said this on transfers?

      "I want to know why we are doing what we are doing on the pitch and with regard to player acquisition. I wouldn’t be doing my job in allocating resources if I wasn’t able to make sense of the individual steps we are taking within the context of our overall philosophy."

      heimdall
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22967: Aug 22, 2017 03:30:18 pm
      The owners are ultimately in charge. If they can't hire competent individuals, whether that be the director of football, the CEO or the manager...then they should see themselves out. Simple as.

      So they should fire Klopp then, erm ok, or would you have the owners demand Klopp have an option B and C in the future, OR can we please finally get a top notch DOF to take care of all transfers in the future and take it out of the hands of the manager as he is clearly not capable or willing to do it himself.
      heimdall
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22968: Aug 22, 2017 03:32:23 pm
      Was going to put this in 'General Transfer Rumours' saying as it's quiet and all but it will fit here too. A bit of fun - who do you reckon said this on transfers?

      "I want to know why we are doing what we are doing on the pitch and with regard to player acquisition. I wouldn’t be doing my job in allocating resources if I wasn’t able to make sense of the individual steps we are taking within the context of our overall philosophy."



      It must be those b***ard owners, right?? ;-)
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22969: Aug 22, 2017 03:37:02 pm
      "I want to know why we are doing what we are doing on the pitch and with regard to player acquisition. I wouldn’t be doing my job in allocating resources if I wasn’t able to make sense of the individual steps we are taking within the context of our overall philosophy."

      John W Henry, can I claim my prize?
      FL Red
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22970: Aug 22, 2017 03:50:14 pm
      So they should fire Klopp then, erm ok, or would you have the owners demand Klopp have an option B and C in the future, OR can we please finally get a top notch DOF to take care of all transfers in the future and take it out of the hands of the manager as he is clearly not capable or willing to do it himself.

      Do you have any effing clue before you manipulate your fingers to type out a response to things or are you literally just spamming this  site with as many posts per day as you can, hoping to God that one of them might actually make some sort of sense.

      Klopp isn't the only person involved in the transfer market. You do realize that right? I mean you do know that Klopp doesn't negotiate terms so far as transfer fees, wages, etc...? That's not up to him. Klopp decides who he wants, he tells Edwards and/or Gordon and/or Peter Moore and it's up to them to go get him his  targets. Klopp can't put a  bid in for a player...so while we are sat around sitting on our hands waiting for Southampton to lift their skirt for us, Edwards could be ruthless like Barca and start actually you  know...bidding on the player to get the ball rolling. Instead, he and his bosses decided the best thing to do would be to write a freaking apology, basically making it impossible for them to come back in for this player (that Klopp wants) without going back on their word to that "club" in Southampton. That's not Klopp's fault....now if he doesn't have any alternative players he likes (which I would find odd since last summer, he "settled" for his 2nd or 3rd choice targets in Mane and Gini) then that's on him and someone needs to have a word with him. But you need to stop with your incessant efforts to shield the owners/management of any blame. They are steering the ship, so if we aren't getting better, it's on them.
      Kopite78
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22971: Aug 22, 2017 04:16:02 pm
      So they should fire Klopp then, erm ok, or would you have the owners demand Klopp have an option B and C in the future, OR can we please finally get a top notch DOF to take care of all transfers in the future and take it out of the hands of the manager as he is clearly not capable or willing to do it himself.

      Or just get him his targets?

      Everyone has their price, look at Neymar.. Look at Suarez, Torres, Van Persie, Ronaldo whoever... But you're telling me VVD and Kieta don't? And let's not say well let's pay them 200m to get them then because we all know it wouldn't take that.

      How long have we bemoand having to settle for target b or c or d and them not improving us? Why then have a go at a manager who says, no they are the players I want to improve us, go get them... I won't settle for a Balotelli or chance a Markovic..

      Get the players in we want.
      Go back to May... Klopp said that the work for the players we want to bring in is nearly done.. Fast forward 4 months and they haven't been completed when basically only the figures between the clubs needed finalising.

      Tell you what let's bring in option F and he flop like has happened numerous times under FSG
      heimdall
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22972: Aug 22, 2017 04:23:54 pm
      Do you have any effing clue before you manipulate your fingers to type out a response to things or are you literally just spamming this  site with as many posts per day as you can, hoping to God that one of them might actually make some sort of sense.

      Klopp isn't the only person involved in the transfer market. You do realize that right? I mean you do know that Klopp doesn't negotiate terms so far as transfer fees, wages, etc...? That's not up to him. Klopp decides who he wants, he tells Edwards and/or Gordon and/or Peter Moore and it's up to them to go get him his  targets. Klopp can't put a  bid in for a player...so while we are sat around sitting on our hands waiting for Southampton to lift their skirt for us, Edwards could be ruthless like Barca and start actually you  know...bidding on the player to get the ball rolling. Instead, he and his bosses decided the best thing to do would be to write a freaking apology, basically making it impossible for them to come back in for this player (that Klopp wants) without going back on their word to that "club" in Southampton. That's not Klopp's fault....now if he doesn't have any alternative players he likes (which I would find odd since last summer, he "settled" for his 2nd or 3rd choice targets in Mane and Gini) then that's on him and someone needs to have a word with him. But you need to stop with your incessant efforts to shield the owners/management of any blame. They are steering the ship, so if we aren't getting better, it's on them.

      ;D, yes some thought does actually go into my posts and I, as opposed to you, do actually remember previous posts. You are become very tedious as I have to explain the same things to you over and over again but here goes again:

      Let me ask you this question to try and explainit.
      IF Klopp only has one target and the club through no fault of their own are unable to secure that player, for example the player plays for a club with plenty of money who refuse to sell at any price or Klopp decides to have a nice chat with the player before approaching the club and thereby infuriates them with tapping up etc, then what do you suggest that the club/owners should do?
      Should they force Klopp to have multiple options or should they just sign players that they like who are in similar positions to that which Klopp wanted? I really am curious to hear what the solution in your opinion is.
      bad boy bubby
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      • @KaiserQueef
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22973: Aug 22, 2017 04:26:30 pm
      John W Henry, can I claim my prize?
      Prize? Oh... aye... erm...  it's Mourinho's new book: 'Reasons Why I'm Not a c**t'. [Shortest book in the world by all accounts] 👍

      heimdall
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22974: Aug 22, 2017 04:27:26 pm
      Or just get him his targets?

      Everyone has their price, look at Neymar.. Look at Suarez, Torres, Van Persie, Ronaldo whoever... But you're telling me VVD and Kieta don't? And let's not say well let's pay them 200m to get them then because we all know it wouldn't take that.

      How long have we bemoand having to settle for target b or c or d and them not improving us? Why then have a go at a manager who says, no they are the players I want to improve us, go get them... I won't settle for a Balotelli or chance a Markovic..

      Get the players in we want.
      Go back to May... Klopp said that the work for the players we want to bring in is nearly done.. Fast forward 4 months and they haven't been completed when basically only the figures between the clubs needed finalising.

      Tell you what let's bring in option F and he flop like has happened numerous times under FSG

      Everyone may have their price but are you happy to pay way over the odds for things that you personally need, NO well me neither and a club, which is a business, is probably of the same opinion. Please don't use PSG and Neymar as some kind of yardstick because that club has just completely broken the transfer system with that ludicrous transfer, £200 million for one player is utterly insane.
      Kopite78
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22975: Aug 22, 2017 04:32:04 pm
      Everyone may have their price but are you happy to pay way over the odds for things that you personally need, NO well me neither and a club, which is a business, is probably of the same opinion. Please don't use PSG and Neymar as some kind of yardstick because that club has just completely broken the transfer system with that ludicrous transfer, £200 million for one player is utterly insane.

      No but it's an example of everyone has a price. Three months ago no one would predict it.

      Kieta and VVD wouldn't cost near that much.

      You say more than what they are worth, but what's that nowadays in the game? What's relative?
      We're talking a club who has spent nothing the last three winter Windows, that's made profit overall the last two years.. The money is there no?
      Is Klopp asking for the club to do a Neymar? No he isn't.
      Is Klopp asking for 10 players that stretches the club? No he isn't

      He's asking for two players that he thinks will improve us immeasurably. Two players... Would it really break the bank to make sure he gets them?

      What's the alternative? Force players on him? We've seen that works
      Do nothing... Ditto

      No I think it's unforgivable that we have fu**ed this window up for two players
      FL Red
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #22976: Aug 22, 2017 04:52:42 pm
      Everyone may have their price but are you happy to pay way over the odds for things that you personally need, NO well me neither and a club, which is a business, is probably of the same opinion. Please don't use PSG and Neymar as some kind of yardstick because that club has just completely broken the transfer system with that ludicrous transfer, £200 million for one player is utterly insane.

      Settle down. In 5 years 200m won't be anything for a world class star.

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