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      NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

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      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23725: Nov 02, 2017 09:49:00 pm

      I give all the credit to whoever is choosing the players at Spurs and the manager they have, don't see where Spurs ownership has done anything.
      Maybe they have done the most important thing and allowed the manager to do his own thing without interfering  ;)
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23726: Nov 02, 2017 09:49:56 pm
      The quantity over quality was a Rodgers thing...don't see how that has been the case since Klopp came it. Mane, Salah...Keita.

      As far as them showing ambition to win the league how does spending a net 3 million a year show Levy being serious about winning the league?

      I give all the credit to whoever is choosing the players at Spurs and the manager they have, don't see where Spurs ownership has done anything.

      Net spend is a bit misleading though.
      Take out the money from Modric and Bale, and it paints a different picture.
      Of course there's no guarantee that Levi would have spent the same amount without that money, but the whole net spend thing is blown out of proportion anyway, and without context is pretty much a null argument imo

      Kane and Alli will be sold when a big enough offer comes in.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23727: Nov 02, 2017 09:52:26 pm
      Spurs haven't won anything, they probably won't either this season. They'll soon suffer the same fate as us with their to players wanting to leave due to lack of ambition.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23728: Nov 02, 2017 09:53:15 pm
      Did not claim that it was a "Klopp Thing" stated that it was a "FSG Thing"... Mind you this window looks like it is continuing in that vain

      Well in one sentence you state we are buying quantity over quality....where is the quantity? if anything were not buying enough since Klopp came in.

      Mane-Quality
      Salah-Quality
      Keita-Quality
      Gini- OK quality
      Matip- Iffy Quality
      Karius-Iffy all together
      Robertson- Looks Quality
      Grujic- To young to tell
      Klavin- Iffy all together.


      I would not say that we are following the same recruitment path as we did 5 years ago when we were bringing in 8+ players every year; if anything the complaint now is that the manager is only settling on quality (ie VVD) and is inflexible thus leaving us short handed
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23729: Nov 02, 2017 09:53:22 pm
      Maybe they have done the most important thing and allowed the manager to do his own thing without interfering  ;)

      Levy?
      And the DoF? The DoF position that BR said he wouldn't work under?
       :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

      I've f**king heard everything now.

      Here's a thought; stop arguing about things you know nothing about (wiki copy and paste doesn't count), and come back when you actually know something.

      I know you're only in this thread to fish for pluses, but f**king hell, even Rib does a better job.

      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23730: Nov 02, 2017 09:56:03 pm
      Spurs haven't won anything, they probably won't either this season. They'll soon suffer the same fate as us with their to players wanting to leave due to lack of ambition.

      It'll be down to Levy I think.
      He has an iron grip on the club, and he'll sell Kane and Alli when a big enough offer comes in.

      Let's be fair though, they've done pretty well, considering the lack of money spent, although they landed on their feet with Kane, who burst through so well they play a game designed around him.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23731: Nov 02, 2017 09:58:40 pm
      Spurs haven't won anything, they probably won't either this season. They'll soon suffer the same fate as us with their to players wanting to leave due to lack of ambition.
      Kane loves Spurs, and London, his already stated that he wants to be a "One Team Footballer" and after the way they dealt with Real, slip up's from Utd and City and Spurs are in with a real chance this season and the next...
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23732: Nov 02, 2017 10:01:17 pm
      Once again you've proved my point, I don't have conspiracy theories, your confusing me with someone else.
      I know exactly what FSG are doing, maximising their protfit with minimum investment. That's how a successful business is run. The problem I have is (and you should too) is that they are not doing enough to make us successful on the field.
      It's not a conspiracy theory that we don't sign world class players, that's a fact!


      The apologist also accused me of stating that the owners were ''creaming the club'', merely an attempt to disparage your opinion while diverting from the screamingly obvious that they neglect what LFC is all about - football.
      It is a refined form of bullshit, no matter it still f**king stinks and is no good to anyone.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23733: Nov 02, 2017 10:05:57 pm
      Kane loves Spurs, and London, his already stated that he wants to be a "One Team Footballer" and after the way they dealt with Real, slip up's from Utd and City and Spurs are in with a real chance this season and the next...

      Kane is still young, he's also ambitious I'm sure. If Spurs fall away, or sell their other to players, he might reconsider that statement.
      I wouldn't be overly confident about any players long term commitment to a club.
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23734: Nov 02, 2017 10:07:58 pm
      Kane is still young, he's also ambitious I'm sure. If Spurs fall away, or sell their other to players, he might reconsider that statement.
      I wouldn't be overly confident about any players long term commitment to a club.

      Truth is, he might not have a choice.
      Levy will sell for a high enough price, no doubt at all in my mind.
      Same goes for Alli, and probably Erikson.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23735: Nov 02, 2017 10:11:15 pm
      Well in one sentence you state we are buying quantity over quality....where is the quantity? if anything were not buying enough since Klopp came in.

      Mane-Quality
      Salah-Quality
      Keita-Quality
      Gini- OK quality
      Matip- Iffy Quality
      Karius-Iffy all together
      Robertson- Looks Quality
      Grujic- To young to tell
      Klavin- Iffy all together.


      I would not say that we are following the same recruitment path as we did 5 years ago when we were bringing in 8+ players every year; if anything the complaint now is that the manager is only settling on quality (ie VVD) and is inflexible thus leaving us short handed

      OK quality..?? Iffy Quality..??.... They are either Quality, Or not, no O.K. or Iffy

      Salah is quality... But the OX...?? are you telling me that we could not find a quality player for the £40 we paid for the Ox, (Barring in mind what we paid for Salah) If we could not then we should have held on to that money for the next window...
      Solanke and Robinson are future buys.. Keita for next season, when we will be luck to make the Europa league
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23736: Nov 02, 2017 10:18:32 pm
      You really think it's necessary to call anyone who doesn't buy into your conspiracy theories an "FSG Lover" or any of the other variations you use to try and get a rise?

      It's extremely condescending and I suppose that's why you do it.

      F***ing hypocrite.

      If the fella giving it billy big bollocks, spouting things he read on wiki 2 minutes ago, and calling people out even knew where to find Liverpool on a map I'd be surprised.
      He's only in this thread fishing for pluses.

      So now that you've failed to evade the question of world class players, how about a retraction from your "fact"?
      I answered the question. FSG haven't signed any world class players, Suarez became world class at Liverpool under Brendan Rodgers, Mane and Salah might do the same under Klopp.

      If you're called an "FSG lover" it's probably because you bend over backwards to make excuses for them any time their ownership is questioned!
      Bottom line, FSG have done nothing that won't result in an increased profit for themselves, hardly the selfless owners some make it they are.

      "They saved us"! No, they bought us at a knock down price.
      "They've built the stand" Yes, which will add more value to the club, and will bring in more revenue ( which Klopp apparently won't spend).

      Chelsea are now building their stadium, but Roman did it the right way. Build the team, have the success, then build the stadium! Priorities!
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23737: Nov 02, 2017 10:22:00 pm
      OK quality..?? Iffy Quality..??.... They are either Quality, Or not, no O.K. or Iffy

      Salah is quality... But the OX...?? are you telling me that we could not find a quality player for the £40 we paid for the Ox, (Barring in mind what we paid for Salah) If we could not then we should have held on to that money for the next window...
      Solanke and Robinson are future buys.. Keita for next season, when we will be luck to make the Europa league

      Here's the fella who was banging on about "it's all opinions" slating someone else's opinion.  :roll:

      (Here's the condescending bit)
      It's known as "The English Premium".
      Y'see quality English players are in such short supply and the demand is so high, because every club has to have 8 "homegrown" in a squad of 25, so even at £40 million, AOL makes sense, plus Klopp apparently likes him, and is slowly integrating him into the team.

      This is called "basic knowledge" and you'd need to do something other than copy and paste wiki to know it.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23738: Nov 02, 2017 10:26:10 pm
      Kane is still young, he's also ambitious I'm sure. If Spurs fall away, or sell their other to players, he might reconsider that statement.
      I wouldn't be overly confident about any players long term commitment to a club.
      Could happen  ;D
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23739: Nov 02, 2017 10:30:28 pm
      I answered the question. FSG haven't signed any world class players, Suarez became world class at Liverpool under Brendan Rodgers, Mane and Salah might do the same under Klopp.

      If you're called an "FSG lover" it's probably because you bend over backwards to make excuses for them any time their ownership is questioned!
      Bottom line, FSG have done nothing that won't result in an increased profit for themselves, hardly the selfless owners some make it they are.

      "They saved us"! No, they bought us at a knock down price.
      "They've built the stand" Yes, which will add more value to the club, and will bring in more revenue ( which Klopp apparently won't spend).

      Chelsea are now building their stadium, but Roman did it the right way. Build the team, have the success, then build the stadium! Priorities!

      Hang on, all those players were signed under FSG.
      One minute you're saying they won't sign "world class" and the next you're saying the managers signed them.
      You can't have it both ways mate.

      I don't make excuses, I point out facts.
      If you don't like those facts, that's entirely your problem, but you can't change them; that's what a fact is.
      You were banging on about them taking money out of the club.
      They weren't.

      You said they don't buy world class players.
      They do.

      You're quite right that they should put some of their own money into the club, but then you fail to explain how to get around FFP (another conversation we had).
      There's also the fact that they said from the start they wouldn't put their own money in.
      I'm sorry, but I can't get annoyed or arsey about someone keeping their word no matter how much I disagree with it.

      They brought in a world class manager, and if he won't spend the money on a 2nd or 3rd choice player, apparently that's the owners fault as well, then again if they said "we're buying player X anyway" you'd slate them for interfering in the team.

      I don't bend over anything; you just don't like facts getting in the way of your conspiracy theories.

      You put some real facts up about how bad they are for the club and if they add up, I'll agree.

      They haven't been great, but they sure as f**k haven't been as bad as you paint them.

      Nearly 30 years without a title, and that's still FSG's fault according to you.

      Well according to me, that's f**king horseshit.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23740: Nov 02, 2017 10:45:39 pm
      If I was to accept the FSG bought world class players in Coutinho, Mane, Salah and Suarez, (which I don't as they weren't world class players when we bought them, hence didn't buy world-class players) that's 4 maybe 5 if you count Sturridge top players that they've bought over there time here. Over 7 seasons that's not good enough, if they weren't so obsessed with developing cheap players to make a profit on, like those I mentioned earlier, maybe we could have a few more world class players on the team!
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23741: Nov 02, 2017 11:24:14 pm
      If I was to accept the FSG bought world class players in Coutinho, Mane, Salah and Suarez, (which I don't as they weren't world class players when we bought them, hence didn't buy world-class players) that's 4 maybe 5 if you count Sturridge top players that they've bought over there time here. Over 7 seasons that's not good enough, if they weren't so obsessed with developing cheap players to make a profit on, like those I mentioned earlier, maybe we could have a few more world class players on the team!

      Mate, you're obsessed with what you think are "world class" players.

      The fact is most elite teams have 2 maybe 3 players in their team who approach "world class".
      It's a term that is bandied around for players who for the most part aren't world class at all.
      I mean ffs, there are still some who insist that Carra was world class.
      My point is, it's an overused term, and few players can truly be said to be in that category,
      Is there really an English world class player right now? I don't think so, but others may see it differently.

      Building a team is about having a core of players who play at a decent level week in, week out; consistency if you will.
      It's not about shoehorning loads of players into a team because they are amongst the best.

      Rafa had it right; he had a core of players who were very good (and let's face it, he inherited a few of them), and the rest were basically support players who did a job.
      You say about players not being world class when we bought them, but think back to the number of teams who weren't prepared to pay a lot of money for Torres, including (and it pains me to say it) Ferguson, who was an excellent judge of players.
      Rafa bought him not because he was world class, but because he fitted the system Rafa wanted to play.

      When Klopp finishes building his team, we will have at most, 2 or 3 truly world class players in it, but (and here's the key) the players will be the perfect fit for Klopps system; not just the exceptional players, but every single one.

      I got a lot of grief for saying it takes a minimum of 3 years to build a team, but I stand by it, and the reason is over 50 years of watching football.
      We'll get there.
      The owners have backed Klopp, and if he refuses to spend because the player is not what he wants, I trust him to know what he's doing.
      In another season or so, we will be winning cups and titles.

      It took Shanks 7 years (I think) to start winning again when he was rebuilding his team.
      Have some faith - the owners are not the problem here.
      The problem was too many managers in too short a timeframe.
      Klopp's here long term, and he'll get us there.
      « Last Edit: Nov 02, 2017 11:39:31 pm by Swab »
      JD
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23742: Nov 03, 2017 12:27:08 am
      Don't think we marked the 5th anniversary of this one properly.

      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23743: Nov 03, 2017 12:30:57 am
      Don't think we marked the 5th anniversary of this one properly.


      Nice one JD... Forgot about that one  :roll:
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23744: Nov 03, 2017 12:50:33 am
      Don't think we marked the 5th anniversary of this one properly.



      A fair point, but perhaps should be tempered with some context.

      Allen was BR's top target; The Welsh Xabi, and while it has to be said he's a good player, he wasn't quite good enough.
      Sahin was another. People were made up about this signing, but he didn't quite fit, and his head/heart was never really with us.
      Borini as well, was highly regarded, but failed to kick on.

      Yesil was unfortunate. Anyone who saw him play for the second team(s) agreed he had everything. Got fu**ed by injuries.
      Assaidi was one who flattered to deceive for me. Looked like he had talent, was quick and strong, but lacked wit.

      I have to ask what this has to do with now?
      These were BR players, and a tumultuous time as far as Suarez was concerned with his yearly "come and get me so I can get closer to Barca" bullshit.

      BR is now saying that he thought he was having a heart attack when he was sacked.
      TBH, the more he speaks, the more I think he is self serving, and that's OK, but he's trying to paint things as something they weren't, and I'm not having that.
      The job was too big for him, end of story.

      We're in a different position now, we have much better players (Suarez and Gerrard aside), but we can also do better.

      The owners gave Klopp the money, Klopp didn't spend some of it.
      BTW I think the negotiating team played a blinder getting Keita signed for next year.
      For me that shows the backing.
      Most owners would have just said "f**k it, we'll get someone else next year", but we didn't, we got the man Klopp wants.

      I'm not saying the owners are perfect, I don't really care about them as long as they back the manager, and I don't blame people for being wary after the h&g fiasco, but that's another reason I scrutinise the accounts, just to make sure.
      That nightmare lives in me just as much as any LFC supporter, so I check, check and check again, and I know what I'm looking at and how to read it.

      They are not charlatans.
      The worst thing I can level at them is that they don't put their own money in when they stand to make a big profit when they sell (OK, they've put money in, in loans, but it's not the same thing), but when they were so clear they wouldn't be doing that when they took on ownership, I can't really complain about them keeping their word.
      RedWilly
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23745: Nov 03, 2017 01:00:03 am
      Apparently set a limit of 75k a week for Can’s contract.

      75k a week for a player that Bayern and Juve are after in the 21st Century is pretty much pushing him out the door.

      Anyone who thinks we will compete consistently under this lot is deluded.
      JD
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23746: Nov 03, 2017 01:05:28 am
      I have to ask what this has to do with now?

      I suppose the context is they were saying it was excellent for our future. And it wasn't.  So they were wrong.

      Just makes me smile thinking John Henry felt comfortable telling LFC fans his analysis of the future of 20 year old footballers.
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23747: Nov 03, 2017 01:13:53 am
      I suppose the context is they were saying it was excellent for our future. And it wasn't.  So they were wrong.

      Just makes me smile thinking John Henry felt comfortable telling LFC fans his analysis of the future of 20 year old footballers.

      I think the context was that we had Suarez, Gerrard and a settled defense, so were looking to build squad depth.
      If you can show me a club that gets it right with every single young player I'd be amazed, because there isn't one.

      I said it before, they have been a bit naive.
      Doesn't make them bad owners.
      My concern is that it makes them a bit "once bitten, twice shy" when managers make promises, but we seem to have got past that now Klopp is here, who was always their first choice if you believe the reports.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23748: Nov 03, 2017 03:33:25 am
      Apparently set a limit of 75k a week for Can’s contract.

      75k a week for a player that Bayern and Juve are after in the 21st Century is pretty much pushing him out the door.

      Anyone who thinks we will compete consistently under this lot is deluded.

      I can go into the player thread and half the posters think he is the 2nd coming and the other half think he can f**k off and don't let the door hit you on the way out......depends on the week...a master tactician or a bumbling numbskull....suffice to say if Jürgen wants to keep him he will get paid what he needs....if your reading details of a salary during negotiations..chances are that is coming out from the agent trying to win the hearts and minds campaign for his client and perhaps it's not really what is happening....... apparently
      RedWilly
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #23749: Nov 03, 2017 05:57:28 am
      I can go into the player thread and half the posters think he is the 2nd coming and the other half think he can f**k off and don't let the door hit you on the way out......depends on the week...a master tactician or a bumbling numbskull....suffice to say if Jürgen wants to keep him he will get paid what he needs....if your reading details of a salary during negotiations..chances are that is coming out from the agent trying to win the hearts and minds campaign for his client and perhaps it's not really what is happening....... apparently

      Well Klopp does want to keep him by all accounts. Given he can talk to other clubs in two months, don’t you think there’s a possibility that maybe we are running this a little close to the wire?

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