Is the dressing room really fractured?

I've noticed, and from last season too, that there is and has been talk of a dressing room divide.  Does anyone think that is the case and if so, where the divide is and if it is affecting the team in any way.  I would think if anything, there are some players who wanted Rafa to stay and others who felt they were working them too hard (and let that be known in various ways).  If that is the case, then the news that one certain player has now got a longer contract may be more of a hindrance than anything.

We all know the main problem is the tactics and the mentality of the current manager, but I think it is a point worth considering as any new manager is going to have to deal with this.

Oh to be a fly on the wall.

It'll become apparent whether there is or not when Hodgson leaves. Can i suggest we start there and let the new manager deal with any 'splits' if they exist.

There's still something wrong somewhere in there. At least all this sh*te has proved our problems lay far deeper than Benitez, which is where everyone put the problems last season. Him leaving was meant to be the catalyst for improvement, according to the fickle minded. Obviously that was not the case.

Hodgson playing sh*te football would have to be part of it. None of the players out there look like they have any idea as to what they are meant to be doing - which will obviously lead to some friction at times.

I dunno if it is fractured or divided, but they certainly aren't 100% happy either.

On the football I've seen us play this season plus the body language of the players, I'd say there's problems there.

It's worrying when you see players arguing with each other ten minutes into a game. That is not something that was born on the pitch moments before.

Whatever differences there are in the dressing room, the players have a duty to the fans to work hard together to get out of this terrible situation.

it would appear to be so and a strong manager would sniff it out and sort it as would a strong capt. But the only way to resolve all problems is to win that would bring everyone together.

Mentioned it before. I'm absolutely convinced that there is massive divides in our dressing room. You look at our team and you don't see any players who could be mates off the pitch apart from Stevie, Carra and Pepe. Nando and Pepe. But who else could you possibly look at and say, 'yeah them two are dead close'.

And more than that, there are certain players in their who I don't believe like each other, and they are taking that onto the pitch. Carra is defo a two faced b***ard, so blatant, and I'm sure we have all been around a two-faced person before, it does your F***ing head in. Especially when the person carries as much influence as Carra does in the dressing room and with the fans. How can a player even consider confronting him, when it will be turned on him? Unless your another big superstar like Nando or Stevie your not going to.

Team chemistry plays a massive role in all sports, there is science to support it, but we ain't got any. Look at Chelsea, their players are always out in the press praising each other, always stand by each other etc. Need to get rid of a load of the dead wood, because with the current set of players I see us going nowhere.

I'm not sure the dressing room is fractured, I personally just think there's a huge lack of confidence running right through the team at the moment.

Players are scared to try anything different or something new, in case they get slated for it, we don't know what RH is saying to them before a game, but their body language tells me something ain't right.

I'm certain two or three wins on the trot will boost morale and we'll see a different team.

Remember we're not used to languishing at the bottom of the table, this is foreign to us. But we need to do something and quick !!!!

yes very much so, between the class and the underclass.....Pepe,Carra,Agger,Skirtl,Gerrard,Cole, Kuyt, Meireles and Torres being class, the rest are IMO, not near good enough, Simples!!

Totally agree with Ms Gerrard, the players look unsure of what they are meant to be doing, and consequently are scared of making mistakes. The blame for this must lay at the feet of Hodgson either he can't communicate properly, or the players are half thinking these tactics are not going to work. Iwould guess that there is not a split in the dressing room at moment, but there sure as hell will be, if Roy isn't down the job centre by middle of Nov at the latest

Mentioned it before. I'm absolutely convinced that there is massive divides in our dressing room. You look at our team and you don't see any players who could be mates off the pitch apart from Stevie, Carra and Pepe. Nando and Pepe. But who else could you possibly look at and say, 'yeah them two are dead close'.

And more than that, there are certain players in their who I don't believe like each other, and they are taking that onto the pitch. Carra is defo a two faced b***ard, so blatant, and I'm sure we have all been around a two-faced person before, it does your f**king head in. Especially when the person carries as much influence as Carra does in the dressing room and with the fans. How can a player even consider confronting him, when it will be turned on him? Unless your another big superstar like Nando or Stevie your not going to.

Team chemistry plays a massive role in all sports, there is science to support it, but we ain't got any. Look at Chelsea, their players are always out in the press praising each other, always stand by each other etc. Need to get rid of a load of the dead wood, because with the current set of players I see us going nowhere.

Please dont compare us to Chelsea- i know what your saying,
but chelsea players are patting eachothers backs & bigging eachother up in the press- because they are winning!

There was also the moment yesterday when Gerrard looked to Roy for instructions.  He appeared to be looking at the bench for 30 seconds or so.  Roy said nothing to him.

There was also the moment yesterday when Gerrard looked to Roy for instructions.  He appeared to be looking at the bench for 30 seconds or so.  Roy said nothing to him.

This.

I think elmer fudd actually blanked him!

What Gerrard wanted was what you'd expect from any manager - we've brought a player on, what do we change.

Answer = nothing, just keep up with the same old sh*t.

Whatever about carra, I can't help feeling that after the intensive coaching of Benitez over the last few years, Gerrard is going to explode sooner or later, and probably a couple of others along with him.

I mean, come on, imagine telling one of the best keepers around to change his game and become "more english"?
What kind of bollocks is that?

yes very much so, between the class and the underclass.....Pepe,Carra,Agger,Skirtl,Gerrard,Cole, Kuyt, Meireles and Torres being class, the rest are IMO, not near good enough, Simples!!

Been hard pressed this season to tell the poor players & the 'supposedly' better players apart.

So many rumours about lack of harmony now.

I wouldn't be surprised. The fact is, the players look like they are not enjoying their football when it comes to competitive matches. All that smiles and laughs during training look like they were by a different team.

Needs someone like Thommo to work with the players and sort out a few things ,we do have some class players that need a class coach /manager to get the best out of them ,the players certainly don't want to put in sh*te performances i'm sure so good coaching and someone to look after them i think would help

I think elmer fudd actually blanked him!

What Gerrard wanted was what you'd expect from any manager - we've brought a player on, what do we change.

Answer = nothing, just keep up with the same old sh*t.

Whatever about carra, I can't help feeling that after the intensive coaching of Benitez over the last few years, Gerrard is going to explode sooner or later, and probably a couple of others along with him.

I mean, come on, imagine telling one of the best keepers around to change his game and become "more english"?
What kind of bollocks is that?

That is total bollocks telling Reina to change.  It's unacceptable and I only see it as alienating him so Roy can bring in an average keeper.

As for the training methods.  Something has changed.  I notice some of the Fulham players have come out and said Mark Hughes gets them to do more ball work than Roy.  I remember some Liverpool players saying the same when Rafa arrived after Houllier left. 

So now Jamie C has his english manager, I wonder if he now realises how good Rafa was?

Mentioned it before. I'm absolutely convinced that there is massive divides in our dressing room. You look at our team and you don't see any players who could be mates off the pitch apart from Stevie, Carra and Pepe. Nando and Pepe. But who else could you possibly look at and say, 'yeah them two are dead close'.

And more than that, there are certain players in their who I don't believe like each other, and they are taking that onto the pitch. Carra is defo a two faced b***ard, so blatant, and I'm sure we have all been around a two-faced person before, it does your F***ing head in. Especially when the person carries as much influence as Carra does in the dressing room and with the fans. How can a player even consider confronting him, when it will be turned on him? Unless your another big superstar like Nando or Stevie your not going to.

Team chemistry plays a massive role in all sports, there is science to support it, but we ain't got any. Look at Chelsea, their players are always out in the press praising each other, always stand by each other etc. Need to get rid of a load of the dead wood, because with the current set of players I see us going nowhere.

I really agree with you here on the Carragher front.

And what manager doesn't play players who are technically gifted on the ball and don't like hoofing ...

Roy's made mistakes but none so drastic to deserve where he is now. But you know his biggest problem to most of us. It's cos he's a cockney isn't it. If he spoke in a Scouse accent he wouldn't be getting so much stick and the blame would be shared much more evenly with the players. That's the problem - and it's rather shallow.

Roy's made mistakes but none so drastic to deserve where he is now. But you know his biggest problem to most of us. It's cos he's a cockney isn't it. If he spoke in a Scouse accent he wouldn't be getting so much stick and the blame would be shared much more evenly with the players. That's the problem - and it's rather shallow.

I couldn't care less where he's from.

He's clueless, he has consistently insulted the fans, and the traditions and history, and he has lied to us on more than one occasion.

He's a self serving stooge in my book, and where he's from has nothing to do with it.

Roy's made mistakes but none so drastic to deserve where he is now. But you know his biggest problem to most of us. It's cos he's a cockney isn't it. If he spoke in a Scouse accent he wouldn't be getting so much stick and the blame would be shared much more evenly with the players. That's the problem - and it's rather shallow.

Have you seem where we are in th eleague or watched any games?.

It's not only more ball work hughs gets the Fulham players to work on, Murphy also said he get's them to play higher up the pitch and attack and get at teams more. In the later stages of Rafa's reign, you have to agree, we  were too defensive in mid field, well we are even more so now under Roy. He seems to have taken on board what Raffa was doing, and taken it ten steps backwards. Fukcing woefull at times. Most of the time actually. It's no wonder there is friction in the dessing room.

It's not only more ball work hughs gets the Fulham players to work on, Murphy also said he get's them to play higher up the pitch and attack and get at teams more. In the later stages of Rafa's reign, you have to agree, we  were too defensive in mid field, well we are even more so now under Roy. He seems to have taken on board what Raffa was doing, and taken it ten steps backwards. Fukcing woefull at times. Most of the time actually. It's no wonder there is friction in the dessing room.

I think he shares outlook and philosophy with Houllier more than Rafa..... ie sit deep and counter attack.  If that doesn't work..... plan b is.... there is no plan b.

And as for the 'scouse accent' comment that is just mental.  It's surely a joke (I hope).

Roy's made mistakes but none so drastic to deserve where he is now. But you know his biggest problem to most of us. It's cos he's a cockney isn't it. If he spoke in a Scouse accent he wouldn't be getting so much stick and the blame would be shared much more evenly with the players. That's the problem - and it's rather shallow.

Rafas cockney accent pissed me right off. What are you on about? When has anyone disliked or referenced any LFC manager because of his accent or place of birth.

The man's where he is because he's as tactically astute as my missus, ask her about tactics and she says she "likes the minty ones".

Been hard pressed this season to tell the poor players & the 'supposedly' better players apart.

I can see where your coming from my Trekkie friend, no one has stood out anywhere so far this season, but the 'supposedly' better players tend to have that  'Bouncbackability'  in there locker, where as the poorer players do not.

I can see where your coming from my Trekkie friend, no one has stood out anywhere so far this season, but the 'supposedly' better players tend to have that  'Bouncbackability'  in there locker, where as the poorer players do not.

Exactly!
The fantastic players we have will always come back to form sooner or later, whereas others- what we are seeing is as good as they are capable of!

There will always be this kind of issue when your losing... I know people talk about a seige mentality, but with a weak manager this wont happen!

Is there a split, was there last season? I reakon there is and it all starts with the manager not managing. Last season we had at least one want away star, before that a few... This kind of attitude will do that to players. Especially as we are going backwards and the players that have moved (high profile ones anyway) are at clubs moving forward.

Unless we remove Roy and the deadwood we are in trouble and this will continue.

Please dont compare us to Chelsea- I know what your saying,
but chelsea players are patting eachothers backs & bigging eachother up in the press- because they are winning!

Why not compare us to Chelsea? They are where we want to be. Of course I'm going to compare, but I get the feeling that all the Chelsea players there go onto the pitch not wanting to let their team-mates down. Our players don't go out with that attitude and it's a F***ing disgrace.

YES.

Three fachts.

1 WE ARE LIVERPOOL FC

2 WE ARE IN THE RELEGATION ZONE

3 SOMETHING IS VERY VERY WRONG

 I do not know about the dressing room being fractured but the way we are playing we should be in the Intensive Care Unit.(that is the players and manager I refer to)

Exactly!
The fantastic players we have will always come back to form sooner or later, whereas others- what we are seeing is as good as they are capable of!

Trouble being our fantastic players Ms Torres are very in short supply with age being on the wrong side of 25yrs, hopefully the new owners will  remedy in the next couple of windows

How Roy can take any positives from this and not realise we have a huge problem is beyond me!

I dont think the dressing room is fractured, i mean they are all frustrated so emotions are high- hence the arguing on the pitch!
So many players under-performing, but at the end of the day, they are following instructions from Roy- and its not working!

I recon they feel the exact same way we do, ROY OUT!

yes very much so, between the class and the underclass.....Pepe,Carra,Agger,Skirtl,Gerrard,Cole, Kuyt, Meireles and Torres being class, the rest are IMO, not near good enough, Simples!!

Completely agree with that list - though until we can sell him and recoup our money, I would add Johnson (he does have ability going forward AND fills our "homegrown" quota).  Obviously without a strong midfield, his oft defensive frailities are exposed BUT I wouldnt sell him when there are so few quality fullbacks out there.  And defence is not where I would immediately strenghten (wings, striker and midfield).  Cant expect a miracle in January!!!!  

Out of the youngsters, I would also keep Martin Kelly, Pecheco and Ngog.  

EVERYONE ELSE ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH AND SHD BE SHIPPED OUT.

YES.

Three fachts.

1 WE ARE LIVERPOOL FC

2 WE ARE IN THE RELEGATION ZONE

3 SOMETHING IS VERY VERY WRONG

FACT NO 4 - my heart is breaking. Our beloved club.

Completely agree with that list - though until we can sell him and recoup our money, I would add Johnson (he does have ability going forward AND fills our "homegrown" quota).  Obviously without a strong midfield, his oft defensive frailities are exposed BUT I wouldnt sell him when there are so few quality fullbacks out there.  And defence is not where I would immediately strenghten (wings, striker and midfield).  Cant expect a miracle in January!!!! 

Out of the youngsters, I would also keep Martin Kelly, Pecheco and Ngog. 

EVERYONE ELSE ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH AND SHD BE SHIPPED OUT.

I agree with the young guns you mentioned Zeus, i never mentioned them because they are the future along with Amoo, Shelvey, Wilson, etc etc, but to me Johnson has to get his finger out of his arse, after all he is a England international and should alot better than he has shown to date.

When Rafa first arrived the first thing he realised was that there was a divide in the dressingroom. The English players were always together, as were the French and so on. I suspect the same thing is happening now. Certain players wanted an English manager, and they have got their way. Certain players have wanted to play in a particular position, and others have wanted to be picked to play every week. You only have to watch the lack of spirit that exists in the team, it seaping out of every pour. Both Gerrard and Carragher have had a go at Nando, recently, with Nando biting back yesterday.

Also just been on rawk, and there is a rumour that Pepe is not too happy at the moment, and has made his feelings clear.  All in all I would say we have a very unhappy dressing room. So much for everything being  better if Rafa left.

I'm not sure the dressing room is fractured, I personally just think there's a huge lack of confidence running right through the team at the moment.

Players are scared to try anything different or something new, in case they get slated for it, we don't know what RH is saying to them before a game, but their body language tells me something ain't right.

I'm certain two or three wins on the trot will boost morale and we'll see a different team.

Remember we're not used to languishing at the bottom of the table, this is foreign to us. But we need to do something and quick !!!!

Spot on there MsG.

Also just been on rawk, and there is a rumour that Pepe is not too happy at the moment, and has made his feelings clear.   

If Pepe decides to leave, along with Torres we are in deep sh*t

If Pepe decides to leave, along with Torres we are in deep sh*t

I know I'm just hoping this nothing but a rumour, there seem to be many doing the rounds atm. Trouble is when you see the players out there, it is very hard to dismiss anything out of hand. But it does not alter my long held opinion that some of our players hold too much power at the club.

My hearts f***in fractured.

Players need to earn their massive paychecks. End of story.  We don't pay them to like each other. If they can't get along and they can't play.  Grow a pair and play your ass off. 

If Pepe decides to leave, along with Torres we are in deep sh*t

This could be part of the (hopefully unlikely) plan, to let them leave and then fill the team with english players to make the ones running the show happy?  Roy has said nothing publicly about the form of any English players has he?  But has said Torres lacks confidence (really?) and Reina needs to be more English!

Just a thought.

This could be part of the (hopefully unlikely) plan, to let them leave and then fill the team with english players to make the ones running the show happy?  Roy has said nothing publicly about the form of any English players has he?  But has said Torres lacks confidence (really?) and Reina needs to be more English!

Just a thought.

Like a Fulham mark two perhaps?

If it comes down to it: Gerrard and Carra vs Torres and Reina, it's a no brainer for me.

If it comes down to it: Gerrard and Carra vs Torres and Reina, it's a no brainer for me.

Personally, I think if you remove the main protagonist things might improve.  Trouble is he's just signed a contract extension.  Maybe too much power & influence has affected him I don't know.  I am sure though a new boss and some bench time might make him think.

Since when did Liverpool get so national-ist? After Arbeloa and Carra had the argument? Alonso was peace-maker and he subsequently left as well.

I remember reading that Rafa found the club having cliques when he first arrived. English stuck with English. French with French and so on. Thought he brought in that idea where each player has a different roommate in away matches?

Since when did Liverpool get so national-ist? After Arbeloa and Carra had the argument? Alonso was peace-maker and he subsequently left as well.

I remember reading that Rafa found the club having cliques when he first arrived. English stuck with English. French with French and so on. Thought he brought in that idea where each player has a different roommate in away matches?

I think it's more to do with certain players playing a role in removing Rafa.  Although saying that, didn't Babel twitter something once about a dressing room division?

If it comes down to it: Gerrard and Carra vs Torres and Reina, it's a no brainer for me.

Same for me, a no-brainer, but I wonder if we thinking the same pairing.

Thought he brought in that idea where each player has a different roommate in away matches?

If he did I'm sure Roy in his wisdom and using his excellent man management skills has stopped this and possibly the cliques are developing again.

Same for me, a no-brainer, but I wonder if we thinking the same pairing.

Unquestionably Torres and Reina for me.  It would be sad to see Gerrard go as I rate him the as one of the best LFC players of all-time, but no player is bigger than the club.

edit: I think putting Carragher in his place first might avert the crisis though, but that would require a manager with cojones.

That's why I keep wondering why our captain and vice captain kept mum about Rafa Benitez's departure whereas I remember Torres and Reina speaking out duirng the World Cup. Safe assumption that both of the local lads had a role of getting rid of our Spanish mastermind after being sick and tired of his tactics?

Yes, Torres and Reina also spoke about Roy Hodgson, if I remember right and so did our captain and vice captain saying how they were all looking forward to working with him.

It's almost becoming like a Spanish-English division and no, Arbeloa-Carragher had nothing to do with it.

Carra is obviously one of the key players who played a role in Rafa's removal. He's a very lucky boy though, although Rafa was ruthless at times, he knew not to drop him. But if someone comes in, and looks at him and sees the hoofball, the disruption that he is causing, the constant fouling, then he will be out on his arse.

Stevie, I imagine played a role in Rafa's removal to, but not to the same extent as Carra. Torres and Reina are obviously pro-Rafa, going from what they have said about him in the past, and maybe have told them two 'How you feel now you got your wish? Relegation candidates, top stuff'.

But IMO remove Carra from the equation and Stevie wouldn't really be taking sides, he would just get on with the job. Said it in another thread, that Carra is a real two-faced b***ard. And he's playing a dangerous game, because he is far past his best.

This is clearly not good for the club then.

That's why I keep wondering why our captain and vice captain kept mum about Rafa Benitez's departure whereas I remember Torres and Reina speaking out duirng the World Cup. Safe assumption that both of the local lads had a role of getting rid of our Spanish mastermind after being sick and tired of his tactics?

Yes, Torres and Reina also spoke about Roy Hodgson, if I remember right and so did our captain and vice captain saying how they were all looking forward to working with him.

It's almost becoming like a Spanish-English division and no, Arbeloa-Carragher had nothing to do with it.

Just as there was a English-French division when Benitez arrived, but he did away with it, by insisting everyone had to eat together, and also everyone had to share rooms with different team mates, where as before players tended to share with their friends. We need someone to come in again, and if there is this same problem deal with it, because right now the team spirit is non-existent.

Personally I'd give Carra some bench time to think about his actions and his influence.  If he kicks off, he can train with the reserves.  I'm guessing Roy invites him into his office to help pick the team, just like Houllier used to.

Carragher and Gerrard got exactly what they wanted. Torres and Reina (and probably others, just using them as examples) got the complete opposite.

Just as there was a English-French division when Benitez arrived, but he did away with it, by insisting everyone had to eat together, and also everyone had to share rooms with different team mates, where as before players tended to share with their friends. We need someone to come in again, and if there is this same problem deal with it, because right now the team spirit is non-existent.

Yeah, I agree but the only difference was, whether true or not, don't think there were any issues between both cliques with Houllier's departure.

Carragher and Gerrard got what they wanted. Torres and Reina (and probably others, just using them as examples) got the complete opposite.

It would explain a lot.  Rafa spoke highly of Gerrard when he left and said they had a good personal relationship.  Said he liked Carra 'as a player.'

Wasn't there once a half time bust up between Gerrard and Rafa - against Reading?  Gerrard was then 'injured' for two weeks.

Our problem revolves around the fact that Rafa recruited to play a 4-2-3-1 formation,that included wide players with pace.We now have a defensive 4-4-2 formation,with no wide pace and a holding midfield that is sh*te,making our attacking midfield,defensive,so no-mate Torres is faced with a back to goal target role that he is not programmed for.So to answer the question,too f*cking right.

If their was problems in the dressing room that will happen with dominant personalities and egos. It's how the manager handles it. Roy will probably use it to deflect from the fact he can't coach anything. He is paid millions to handle thins like that