The "Xabi Alonso" Effect

After watching most of this season I think we can all see that Steven has truly been out of sorts, he seems to be all over the place and from all accounts I feel like is trying to over extend himself which is causing his performances to suffer across the board. Evidence of this fact was the season Xabi Alonso emerged as a dominant midfielder and we finished 2nd. During that season Gerrard was loose, all over the place and basically running a muck all over the field sliding in for tackles, pushing forward and playing in a dominating central attacking midfielder role. During that season you could tell Xabi's presence in the back, his ability not only to hold the central midfield but also to fire the ball over every inch of the pitch gave Gerrard a confidence he has since lose with Xabi's departure.

Now that Xabi is gone Gerrard is trying to Xabi, and no one is taking up the mantle of being Gerrard. Do you think any of our current players could take up the mantle, or vice versa become the central midfielder Gerrard has faith in?

I don't see anyone on our squad with the resolve and fortitude to hold that position. Who would you like to see us bring in? Can we find a replacement? Or will Gerrard have to be Superman and play all over the pitch when we really need him in front of goal and not worrying what will happen if the ball gets behind him.

Thoughts?

Umm, Lucas is getting there.

Umm, Lucas is getting there.

Lucas is coming along in his passing game, still don't trust him around our own 18 yard box, he gives away far to many fouls. Xabi was a great defender as well when called upon. He was also quality at fishing balls that were cleared out and forcing them back out to the corners to make our attacks last longer.

Lucas is coming along in his passing game, still don't trust him around our own 18 yard box, he gives away far to many fouls. Xabi was a great defender as well when called upon. He was also quality at fishing balls that were cleared out and forcing them back out to the corners to make our attacks last longer.

Lucas had some quality games recently, not to forget that he fished a ball that was cleared out yesterday and passed it right to Torres who touched it into Maxi's direction for him to score.

Lucas had some quality games recently, not to forget that he fished a ball that was cleared out yesterday and passed it right to Torres who touched it into Maxi's direction for him to score.

He did and I am not knocking Lucas, to be honest when thinking this over I was thinking of Lucas as that player, but I don't know if Gerrard has the faith in him to not have to constantly in the back of his mind, okay how am I going to get back to defend if the ball gets out, where with a quality central midfielder he has enough time to access the counter attack and find where best he fits. Instead of what he does now which is runs directly for the ball because our backline has been shaky.

What Stevie needs is a manager who can give him instructions.

I think a lad called DANI PACHECO could do a good job running a muck

I can't think off the top of my head who is akin to Alonso's ilk, Pirlo is but he is knocking on the last time I looked, Michael Carrick is a poor mans version of Alonso but he'd still do a job as his style certainly puts him in the same mould as Alonso. We also have to remember whether Hodgson would opt for this style too, I couldn't see him NOT wanting a player of Alonso's calibre and style.

I personally think that while Gerrard is capable of being a WC player in almost every position on the pitch he isn't in my book the specialist that Xabi is in his position. Therefore I'd like either Gerrard playing alongside some like Alonso/Carrick/Pirlo (anyone else?) who sprays, dictates the tempo and pulls the strings from midfield while Stevie does his more box to box thing. Or, see Gerrard playing ahead of that pairing in behind Torres where he currently is. Lucas IMO has really come on and I am surprised because I had really written him off and he is becoming a bit of a favourite with me this season - where Lucas is concerned I'm swallowing vast chunks of humble pie.

If we were able to pair Lucas alongside a ball player we'd be fine, whilst leaving Gerrard maruading further forward, I'd love to see Roy make a cheeky bid for Xabi and get him back here, but I think Roy wants to stamp his own authority on the side and wouldn't contemplate replicating a Rafa side.

We will never know if Aquilani could have filled that role and Raul seems to play in a different position each week. Alonso was quite unique in that he played the game at very much his pace and on his terms we miss him very much and we certainly dont get as many free kicks anymore since he has gone.

Alonso was excellant for Liverpool, easily the best of his type in Europe. Irreplaceable

I said in summer of 2009, if Xabi stayed we'd win the league, but if he left we'd struggle to get 4th (never thought we'd miss out).  He stitched our performances together, linking defence and attack with awesome vision and passing ability.  You can't replace a player like that.  Still gutted that he has gone.

Lucas is improving and i think Shelvey could take up the mantle but we need them to step up now.

Ye dont have to replace Alonso with like for like. Molby/McMahon werent Souness but they were his replacements.Were a longtime rid of Alonso we shouldnt be still trying to find an answer to fill his role

Since he left we have been awful just a concidence or was he absolutely vital to the team, I believe the second part. He was extremely under rated while he was in England, the media never gave him any praise.

Since he left we have been awful just a concidence or was he absolutely vital to the team, I believe the second part.

It is no coincidence.  Alonso was the conductor of the team, making us work in harmony now we just have eleven people strumming away independently.

ALONSO will always be missed by LFC...but at the moment what we should do is get Aquilani back or get someone like  Jenas or Modric into the team or atleast get a manager who can influence the team with his own ideology... woy hasnt got any idea about LIVERPOOL, and he also has got no methods or tactical solutions of his own... he is trying to apply certain methods which certainly does not do any good to us at all... lets all just sit and pray things go our way soon... LFC ALWAYS

We have 1 player who looks like a MKII - Suso, the guy is going to be the business....

However I agree with Brian78 - we shouldnt still be looking to replace him, it was a long time ago now!

Lucas is coming along in his passing game, still don't trust him around our own 18 yard box, he gives away far to many fouls.

how many free kicks has Lucas given away in dangerous positions in the league all season?

2 against Man City, that's all by my count

We have 1 player who looks like a MKII - Suso, the guy is going to be the business....

However I agree with Brian78 - we shouldnt still be looking to replace him, it was a long time ago now!

You could argue by the same token, Arsenal are still trying to replace Viera.  They haven't won anything since he left.

I don't think we need to replace him per se, but we need someone with some passing range that brings everyone into the game.  I know Gerrard likes to think it's him, but I don't feel it is.  Gerrard is better getting forward.  My vote would go to Aquilani.  Showed some real promise at the tail end of last season.

Ye dont have to replace Alonso with like for like. Molby/McMahon werent Souness but they were his replacements.Were a longtime rid of Alonso we shouldnt be still trying to find an answer to fill his role

I don't think we need to replace him like for like either but we have truly been missing a dominant central midfielder. Gerrard has found a home playing behind Torres and excels there. With no central midfielder or consistent wing play behind/next to him to dictate play he then comes further and further back leaving Torres on an island to dig holes and build sand castles.

Steven Gerrard is a complete player and therefore capable of taking up this role, but probably not to an extend Xabi did.

I've said it before and I will say it again. The Gerrard-Torres partnership excelled and the whole team benefited is because of the presence and abilities of Xabi. It's no coincidence that our team's performances on the pitch have dropped ever since that Spanish midfield masetro left the club. With someone as reliable as Xabi at the back, Gerrard was given the free role and he had no pressure. It was evident last season also that our team played better attackingly when Aquilani and Gerrard were on the pitch.

Alonso's gone and he won't be back anytime soon or even at all. The only players I'd put in the same bracket as him are Xavi and Fabregas and there's no way we're going to get any of them. We can minimise his loss by placing Gerrard back in the centre and have Cole in the hole. Why?

Firstly, Stevie can spot passes and space and he was probably our mini playmaker before Alonso arrived in 2004. After Alonso's departure, in various occasions, Gerrard, who started the game in the hole, had to drop back deep just to retrieve the ball because it's not coming to him when he's behind Torres due to the negative pairing in the centre. When Gerrard comes deep, Torres is all alone up top and we can't hoof the ball to him and expect him to take on 3-4 players at one go.

Secondly, Cole can't do much on the wings. He can play there but he's more dangerous in the centre, IMO. After all, it was his passes from the centre that led to Babel's goal against Trabzonspor and to the penalty against United. Even his first goal came as a result of his free role.

I don't believe that where people say Gerrard and Meireles can't be paired together because neither are good defensively. Well, neither Lucas nor Poulsen are hardly better than them at that.

I always had massive man love for Xabi. Without a doubt one of Benitez's best signings. And for what, 12.5 million, wasn't it? But as is the case with a lot of our players and managers, he never really got the respect he deserved in England, especially from other fans who didn't watch him week in week out. I've rarely seen a player as calm and composed on the ball as Alonso, and obviously his passing range was superb. We haven't replaced him yet and it shows. Trying to play the 4-2-3-1 formation only works best with excellent passers of the ball at the CM positions, because without them the players higher up the pitch just don't get the service needed to perform. Xabi provided that service constantly and though Lucas has shown promise, he's nowhere near Xabi's league just yet.

Jonjo Shelvery is one to consider I think, and although Suso seems to have consummate talent, I'm not sure if he's fitted to the CM/CDM position? Seems a little short on the physicality to play centre mid.

I want to see Shelvey given a chance to prove his worth next to Meireles.  Raul is an all action midfielder who can pick a pass and put in a tackle.  Shelvey's best quality is his distribution, which I think with time could match that of Alonso.  He doesn't have the same calmness and composure that Alonso has, but he is only 19.  Also, I think that his desire to prove himself could be a massive plus as he will buzz around the pitch and put his foot in when needed. 

Steven Gerrard is a complete player and therefore capable of taking up this role, but probably not to an extend Xabi did.

I've said it before and I will say it again. The Gerrard-Torres partnership excelled and the whole team benefited is because of the presence and abilities of Xabi. It's no coincidence that our team's performances on the pitch have dropped ever since that Spanish midfield masetro left the club. With someone as reliable as Xabi at the back, Gerrard was given the free role and he had no pressure. It was evident last season also that our team played better attackingly when Aquilani and Gerrard were on the pitch.

Alonso's gone and he won't be back anytime soon or even at all. The only players I'd put in the same bracket as him are Xavi and Fabregas and there's no way we're going to get any of them. We can minimise his loss by placing Gerrard back in the centre and have Cole in the hole. Why?

Firstly, Stevie can spot passes and space and he was probably our mini playmaker before Alonso arrived in 2004. After Alonso's departure, in various occasions, Gerrard, who started the game in the hole, had to drop back deep just to retrieve the ball because it's not coming to him when he's behind Torres due to the negative pairing in the centre. When Gerrard comes deep, Torres is all alone up top and we can't hoof the ball to him and expect him to take on 3-4 players at one go.

Secondly, Cole can't do much on the wings. He can play there but he's more dangerous in the centre, IMO. After all, it was his passes from the centre that led to Babel's goal against Trabzonspor and to the penalty against United. Even his first goal came as a result of his free role.

I don't believe that where people say Gerrard and Meireles can't be paired together because neither are good defensively. Well, neither Lucas nor Poulsen are hardly better than them at that.

Couldn't agree more with you, Cole needs to play behind the striker and not be left out on wings, he can put in a decent ball now and then but his true skill is with balls on the ground.

This also brings up another point. I feel like we have 10 of the same player and we have no width on the wings and haven't for a while. Kuyt and Jova have been our wide men when both of them lack the speed and ball delivery to truly be an out-an-out winger. We have a host of quality players that play in the center of our defense and the center of our midfield yet no one on the wings.

With his lack luster defending but speed and ability to cross should Woy move Johnson up to RW with Kuyt out with injury? (After Johnson gets healthy)
@artalyor
I think Shlevey would be brilliant too, he showed his class on a big stage in Napoli away with an extremely hostile crowd in the stands.

Many have said it but Alonso is quite simply irreplaceable. Personally I think a change of formation is in order and should have been on the cards since the day Alonso left, possibly being the reason we are no longer managed by Rafa. It was Rafa's stubborn continuation of a formation centred around Alonso following Alonso's absence that saw us playing such dire football last season, that and the absence of any real out and out wingers.

Saying that.

Lucas improved his game tremendously this season, playing with a lot more confidence and ability, so while I doubt he will ever get to a player of Alonso's calibre, he is certainly improving at a remarkable rate, and in similar areas as Alonso too (a deep passing player).

Let's all remember that when Alonso arrived he wasn't the finished article that we all see now, he was a talented, quality player yes, but he was nowhere near the standard he achieved in 08/09, probably down to Rafa.

Isn't this what Raul was bought for though? To fill the gap Xabi left?

He was a fantastic player but he's gone now.

The biggest mistake in the tactical sense we have made in the last year and a bit is playing the same F***ing system without the players to play it.

Alonso and Mascherano were the perfect duo to play that central role in that 4-2-3-1. Masch to win it, Xabi to feed Kuyt, Gerrard and Torres. But the fact is we don't have that calibre of players to play that formation anymore. Lucas is developing yes but come on he can't pass as well as Alonso or tackle as well as Masch. So far, the same for Meireles (although to be fair he has time to prove his worth) and don't get me F***ing started on Poulsen.

It's time to evolve, Alonso and Masch have gone. We can't play that system anymore effectively IMO. I don't know what formation will work to be honest, I'd like to see us try a 4-3-3 when we get proper wingers but for now a simple 4-4-2 would do me just fine.

If we do continue to play the same system at least FFS drop Stevie into midfield and let him boss it. We were tonnes better yesterday when he dropped back.

I miss Xabi Alonso.  And I miss that we were once spoilt for choice for quality central midfielders.

Momo, Xabi, Masch, Aquilani, have all moved on, we've got Merieles (who is a good player), and our other suspect two, Lucas & Poulsen - which will barely make us contenders in the League?  But definitely Xabi leaving was the start of our downfall on the pitch, I'd jump at the chance to re-sign him but the reality of that, is purely non-existent.

It was Rafa's fault, and he knows this, for flirting around with Gareth Barry who we never signed in the end, telling Xabi he could of been sold to sanction the move?  When it all collapsed, the damage was done, and Xabi's mind was set.

At least he gave us his best performance in a Liverpool shirt in his last year.  He'll always be one of the greatest players of my generation to play in a Liverpool shirt.

Thanks for the memories Xabi.  Miss your 60 yard pinged passes!

Isn't this what Raul was bought for though? To fill the gap Xabi left?

Well I don't think that's going to happen. I see Meireles as our Darren Fletcher type player. He's a good player, and an excellent guy to have in the squad (which is why I congratulate Roy on signing him for £10million or so). However I just don't think he's in Xabi's class.

We dont need to replace him, we need to stop relying on Gerrard as much for linking up with Torres.
We can all clearly see, and have done for a while, that Torres is not happy up front on his own and, as you rightly say, if Gerrard is up front with him we are lacking strength in midfield. We have bought attacking midfielders, why not use them, or even better, play Ngog up front with Torres to hold the ball up and feed him [until we get someone better], but that would mean playing 4-4-2 and it seems the premiership clubs have fallen out with that formation now. This obviously leaves Gerrard furthur back and we will miss a lot of his attacking game, but we have dont have other options for defensive midfielders, so needs must.

I know we had a great season with Gerrard and Torres leading the line, but with no Alonso and no Masharano, its no longer working.

Lucas is defiantly progressing, which can only be a positive. If he can improve his passing and distribution even further, there is no questions that he can do a good job LFC for years to come. Watch this space...

Alonso left a long time ago.

I can deal with praise for him (credit where it is due & all that)
And comments on how we miss him- but jesus! This whole mess is more than Alonso leaving.

Alonso left a long time ago.

I can deal with praise for him (credit where it is due & all that)
And comments on how we miss him- but jesus! This whole mess is more than Alonso leaving.

Well said Ms Torres.

I think he brought us another dimension, but he also made us quite predictable, whhich is why he was targeted so much.

He had 2 and a half good seasons for us, one of them truly excellent, but he's gone now.

This thread strikes me as more than a little revisionist - yes he was a good player, and still is, but the loss of him is not the cause of our demise.

Couldn't agree more with you, Cole needs to play behind the striker and not be left out on wings, he can put in a decent ball now and then but his true skill is with balls on the ground.

This also brings up another point. I feel like we have 10 of the same player and we have no width on the wings and haven't for a while. Kuyt and Jova have been our wide men when both of them lack the speed and ball delivery to truly be an out-an-out winger. We have a host of quality players that play in the center of our defense and the center of our midfield yet no one on the wings.

With his lack luster defending but speed and ability to cross should Woy move Johnson up to RW with Kuyt out with injury? (After Johnson gets healthy)

I guess some have pointed that it's not real wingers we need but what we need is our 'wide' players to STAY wide and that depends on what the manager tells them to do. However, it's not easy, being in an unnatural position, it's normal that players tend to drift into their more favoured roles, that's why we keep on seeing Cole and Meireles drift back into the centre when out wide. And for Kuyt, granted he isn't a right winger but we were not complaining during the season we finished 2nd.

I agree about Johnson. Seeing Gareth Bale excel on the left wing for Spurs makes me think that Johnson should be given a go on the right. He's pretty fast and can dribble alright. And of course, his defending is nowhere near Arbeloa or Finnan.

And like MsTorres stated, while Xabi's departure left a huge hole in the team in all sorts of ways, there is more than just that. I wouldn't say he was poor in the two seasons before Rafa tried to sell him (though he claimed he wanted Barry and Alonso in the same team but couldn't have them both). For me, Xabi has always been a quality player. He may have dropped a little below par in 2006-2008 but he will always possess those qualities that are rare to find.

I genuinely feel our inability to challenge others in all departments are costing us. First, after the departures of Hyypia and Crouch, we hardly challenge aerial battles effectively. Only when Kyrgiakos is in the team, we look more able to deal with high crosses at both ends of the pitch. Torres can challenge but he seems always out of order this season and one player to challenge in the air is not enough.

Secondly, we lack pace. We hardly had any in the last few seasons. I'd really be glad if we had someone like Walcott, Lennon, Young or Malouda to run on the wings and put a cross in.

No doubt we have some gifted players in Agger, Gerrard, Meireles, Torres and Cole but it's just not enough.

When Xabi left we lost our orchestrator , everything started with Alonso during the season we came 2nd ,the Gerrard/Torres partnership was lethal but had to be serviced with quality and  Xabi was outstanding , replacing him with an injured Aquillani was a joke ,the nearest I  have seen to Alonso is Tom Huddleston and would have been a better option .

I kind of fail to see the point in this thread.

Xabi is long long gone, i thought Aquilani was going to fit the bill as his 'direct replacement' but he's also moved on so here we are.

What Stevie needs is a manager who can give him instructions.

.....and eight new players around him.

The way i see around this problem lies in the manager making a desicion for the good of the team and not to curry favour with any individual irrespective of who that may be, the Alonso, Gerrard midfield partnership worked a treat because they knew each others games and played together consistently for 4 seasons at least, since Xabi left our midfield has struggled to create that dynamism, so much so that its unlikely we will see the influencial play that was created, for me Gerrard has to be in midfield with at the moment Meireles, we have players like Cole, Pacheco. Kuyt, Shelvey all capable of filling the role Gerrard played with Alonso in the side, personaly out of those 4 i would have Shelvey, he is not only quick on his feet but in his mind, he can pass shoot score defend from the front, link up play and basically terrorise defences, backed up with Gerrard pinging passes and generally beefing up the midfield and of course his charging forward in to space we would have a pretty frightening pairing, with Torres at his best its hard not to see success coming from this, add Turan and Amoo on the flanks, certainly has me licking my lips, for this to have a realistic chance of happening is remote but we can all dream, Kelly at RB, Agger and Skirt at the back and a new top quality LB, Pepe of course between the sticks and a manager that knows what he is doing orchestrating from the touchline, dont know about you guys but i'm loving it already.........AWWWW f***in BOLLOCKS it is only a dream!!!!!

Obviously nobody can replace Xabi. Want him back . But barring that, am I alone in thinking Charlie Adam? Might be shot down on this one but thoughts?

at the end of the day guys Xabi has gone and thats that. outstandingly fantastic and a dream to watch on and off the ball. we need to get our heads together now guys and see who we think would be his perfect replacement. me personally would bring Aquillani back and get in a red shirt where he belongs

I'm thinking the team has seen drastic changes since Xabi left, both on and off the field and it's time people stopped banging on about him. Yes he's a quality player, yes he was a vital part of our team but the fact is he's gone to another team so it's time for us all to go over the Xabi Alonso effect and start focussing on the current crop of players and not past players that are in no way shape or form going to have any further effect on our team. This topic is just echoing what's been said in countless other topics.