Our squad over the coming years...

Looking at the current roster I can't help but notice there's some major problems with the squad which need addressing.  

1. Squad size

At 21 the squad is a little on the small side given the fact we've got the likes of Torres, Cole, Aurelio and Agger who are all quite injury prone.

2. Homegrown players

Our 8 homegrown players are: Jones, Johnson, Konchesky, Gerrard, Cole, Carragher, Spearing and Darby.  One can't help but get the impression that there's at least a few players there that probably shouldn't be there for one reason or another and with both Carragher and Gerrard the wrong side of 30, we can't simply resort to shipping out a large number of them at a time.  While we do have a large number coming through the ranks, it would be unwise to count on it.

3. Quality

Alright, so nobody expects a squad of 25 world class players with another 15 promising wonderkids coming through the reserves but in some areas we've got too much quality and in others too little.  I'm not entirely sure on how to word this, so I'll try explain it through numbers.  If we assign an arbitrary number to a player between 1 and 10 (with 10 being truly world class players they would walk into practically any team in the world and 1 being players who are only good enough for the reserve team) most teams squads (there's 28 there but some of those are u21s, probably close to the number of players you would use in total over a season even if they only make 3 sub appearances or 1 start and 2 sub appearances) would resemble something similar to this: 2x10s, 3x9s, 4x8s, 5x7s, 4x6s, 3x5s, 2x4s, 2x3s, 2x2s, 1x1s with a fair chunk of those 2s-5s being youngsters who play bit parts and the 1s being those players that get let go on a free when their contract expires.  

We seem to have too many 4s, 5s and 6s who and not enough 7s and 8s.  Problem is we've got so many older 5s and 6s that by right of their experience or service we're paying them quite a fair amount and a lot also joined on frees which inflates their wages further.  Some of them aren't particularly versatile which just creates more problems with the squad.


3. Depth

If Torres is injured, we're relying on either N'Gog or one of Kuyt/Babel/Jovanovic making do as a striker.  Kuyt is the only natural striker there but he hasn't played there in so long, you've got to wonder if he can still do it like he used to be able to.  At CB we've got 4 players who at any given time in the season could be considered first choice.  We don't have a 'best' CB pairing as such.  If we just assume that it's Agger/Skrtel (due to their age and pace alone), we're actually quite vulnerable in the air (having a weakness is to be expected but the Agger/Skrtel partnership's aerial ability is potentially cause for concern), particularly from crosses as they are also Reina's weakest aspect of his game, compound that with fullbacks that aren't exemplary in the blocking crosses department.

4. Age

Here is a complete list of players who we need to keep very close tabs on over the next year or two due to their age: Konchesky, Aurelio, Gerrard, Jovanovic, Kyrgiakos, Maxi, Kuyt, Carragher and Poulsen.  9 players aged between 29 and 32 but only 5 players aged between 20 and 24: Babel, Lucas, N'Gog, Spearing and Darby.

5. Too many similar types of players

Spearing/Poulsen, Maxi/Kuyt, Babel/Jovanovic, Lucas/Meireles, Torres/N'Gog - I'm not saying they're the exact same type of player or that they're of the same quality and in some cases it's fine but there's quite often if any of above mentioned players came on to replace their 'partner' none would typically offer anything drastically different.

Spearing/Poulsen - both defensive minded holding midfielders.
Maxi/Kuyt - Maxi more cultured, Kuyt more graft.
Babel/Jovanovic - both fast, both relatively one footed, both cut inside
Lucas/Meireles - fairly standard box-to-box players, one is clever, one is more explosive
Torres/N'Gog - both quite rounded in their game, N'Gog better at holding the ball-up, Torres better at bursting forward on the break

Put simply, we don't have a target-man to come off the bench if Torres is being bullied up front.  We don't have a traditional winger who can cross well if the opposition is playing compact, narrow and only allowing us time and space on the ball out wide.  We don't have a deep-lying playmaker who can dictate the game from deep if our CMs can't from a more advanced role, etc.  

Obviously, there's more a lot more to be said about options and possibilities, no?  But yeah, you get the picture though.  I think that we actually do need to be a lot more clever with who we bring in and get rid of to make sure that a rebuilding process isn't necessary in a season or two.  I'm not entirely sure if I'm just being melodramatic here but I feel if we get things wrong over the next window or two, it will really hurt our future aspirations.  What do you guys think?

After five windows of getting it wrong, we are left with very little room for manuvere. We need quality up front and on the wings. We need to ship out most of Roy's signing's and replace them with young talent. This is not going to be fixed during one window, but evidence that we are serious in rectifing the previous regimes mistakes is a must in January

Whatever problems we have on the pitch, it isn't going to be fixed this January or even by next summer. If I'm being honest, I'd expect that to take 2 years at least unless we spend a shitload and get rid of a ton.

I feel we need players who can challenge in the air effectively, pace and strength. This will give an abundance of abilities in the team and bring us different styles of play when Plan A doesn't work.

I can't see us spending the big bucks anytime soon on tranforming the team. And the things you've mentioned vitex will need to be addressed but again coming on to the Hodgson situation - He isn't the man imo to take us forward by the looks of things. If we can get in a manager who knows what this club is all about and is a good manager overall I reckon with the cash in the future NESV will give as transfer budget we can strenghten our squad and become title contenders in the near future again.

Kyrgiakos for me is decent in the air but his age and his lack of pace is his downfall. Therefore obviously there is Agger and Skrtel, but when theres suspensions and injuries they'll need to be back ups. The midfield in my opinion is good. We could add a few more players in there definetley but the quality already there is good. Another wide player definetley. Babel and Jova are more centre forwards I think who have been played out wide at here and we don't need players to cut inside, We want wide players in which the only proper winger we have is Maxi. Therefore an area that needs strenghening. Up top Ngog is not the answer to a 2nd striker, He is a decent player but wee need another class striker brought in sooner rather than later to support Torres and to come in when Nando is injured or whatever it may be and will get goals.

In five years time looking at our main players:
Reina will definitely still be here and its great to think that he would still be considered a young keeper even then.
Scholes and Giggs are in fairness great examples of players who keep going and I'm sure he wont play every game but Stevie who will be 35 will still be around and doing the business.
Torres will be 31. Still here of course with the hope of god.
Skrtel and Agger will make for an experienced centre half partnership and Kelly and Johnson will still be here.
Then others who will be young and possibly still here are Pacheco, Shelvey, Lucas, Mereiles would be 32, Ngog.

Really in my opinion, a lot of players will still be young enough but we all know how a squad can change in 5 years!!
And even if a few players are into their 30's, it just makes for a squad like United or Chelsea who can then be replaced if we have money touch wood.

1. The only actual star players I see still here two years in the future are Pepe and (a getting old but still good) Gerrard. Even imagining Torres stay this summer, it would be strange not to sell him the next, as his value will start to drop after, as any attacker closer from 30 than 20.

It makes a striker really able to replace Torres (as an equally good sub if he stays one year, as starter when sold) the very first priority, we will have to spend most our money on, someone who will need to be world class in 2012 or 13 and accustomed to play with Liverpool as soon as possible.

2. About home grown players, don't forget that they don't have to be english, just formed in england ; some foreign players actually on loan are considered home grown (ie Insua) while some others will be when they reach senior age (the Pacheco, Suso, Mavinga, etc). With them and some others coming through the reserves plus the odd english recruit  I don't think there will be a problem to have 8 usefull home grown in a 25 man squad 5 years in the future. The problem if there is one is immediate (next year) if we get rid of Konchesky and players like Darby and Spearing don't show big signs of improvement. It seems we are going to adress it this january by recruiting in priority english players where the team need depth (I just fear there will be a conflict between this objective and the world class striker one, as english are often expensive for what they can bring).

3/4. After buying a replacement for Torres asap, developping a long term replacement for Gerrard should be the next year priority (or at least the 2012 or 13 one). Logically most of the coming year money should go for our future striker, than most of the money from Torres sale for our future playmaker (Mereiles is good but I don't think he will improve a lot if at all, I see he staying a number two in this role and I don't believe in Shelvey to become as good ; finally Lucas if I think he can improve a lot and finally become a really first class DM/support CM will never be creative enough to be the playmaker). It means that we will have to count on youngs or not too expensive recruits to fill most other positions in the team. Hopefully the young policy of NESV will have results and grow us players in the positions we need (wingers ie) when some actually under-rated youngs finally reach a sufficient level (ie : Insua, Robinson or Mavinga as full backs).

In central defence I think Kelly and Wilson will have a bright future and become regulars, with Carragher retiring, Agger being sold and Sktel becoming secondary once they are ready. The only recruit we'll need in this area is a Soto like strong and tall defender, I think someone like Adil Rami we are rumoured to have contacts with would be one of the best options.

5. I agree that when making critical replacements or buying youngs a priority should be to give more diversity to the team. For example I'd prefer a player like Dzeko, tall and strong enough to play target man if also technically gifted, to a player like Benzema, more similar to Torres, for future striker (imagining Torres stays one year, and N'Gog several as third then second striker). As well we definitively need to buy some true wingers instead of more wide players with central tendancies.

Quality post.....

We are like a robot that has to follow plan a. Getting rid of Crouch was the beginning of the end for me, also and don't laugh - Pennant. You have to have players who are different.

Rafa signed very good players, but he also sold a lot of very good ones. Bellamy....

Getting rid of Crouch was the beginning of the end for me, also and don't laugh - Pennant. You have to have players who are different.

Rafa signed very good players, but he also sold a lot of very good ones. Bellamy....

If Rafa had of been allowed to sign the players he originally wanted, Pennant wouldn't have even been at the club.

And selling Bellamy helped buy Nando. Swings and roundabouts really.

NESV are adopting a long-term approach and IMO this is the correct solution.  January 2011 I would think would be very quiet as NESV don't seem to think that this is the best time to recruit and I have to agree.

The length of time it takes to rebuild the squad so that it can challenge on all fronts for trophies is open to debate but would be determined by :

a) qualification for Champions league - the sooner LFC qualify, the greater the chance of attracting higher quality players
b) the rate of development of young talented players
c) the level of investment by NESV in the squad over coming years
d) the retention of quality players on a long-term basis
e) the recruitment of a top quality manager

Knowing how the Red Sox model works, I would suggest that NESV are looking for year on year improvement in results with the expectation of challenging consistently for trophies within 5 years.  It may not be the answer that most people want, but all of the information coming from NESV is that they will be adopting the "slowly, slowly catchee monkey" approach.

Initially I expected this post to make me cry, all our good players are too old or want to leave. I think we all know who.

But I was pleasently surprised to read the post and the replies. There is hope for the future, and it has to be a future built on a budget weather we like it or not, we dont have the money the other top clubs have, so we have to be patient and build a squad. Its not like we havent done it before.

 I find it impossible to predict who will be in our squad in 5 years without the aid of a crystal ball,the longest contracts these days appear to be for 5 years,and they can be broken by the player or club at moments notice.All I wish for is that whoever is in the squad in 5 years wears the RED of L.F.C. with pride and respects the history and tradition of this great club.Also they brings lots of success like we are used to.

Until we know about what the manager situation is going to be, i dont think i would want to spend anything in january. We need to buy players who will have a long term relationship with a manager. Its pointless, to me bringing in players that when we change our manager will maybe have no place in the squad. If Hodgson is here to stay long term then fair enough we should go for the players that he thinks he needs to take the squad forward. If Hodgson is to be ousted out what is the point in buying players for certain positions when if we change managers he could change formations and those players would become surplus to requirments.

Yes i do believe this squad needs improving but if we are to change our manager then i,d go for loan moves only to avoid risk. I think if we do invest in January then wingers could be used in multiple formations but if you want to get in say a right and left full back then in the summer a new manager comes in and says well i want to play a formation where i need right and left wing backs we have just defeated the object. Maybe thats what NESV are thinking about when they say they will not invest alot in january. They have said this will be a long term project and will not waste money on signings. If they dont think that Roy has a future here it would be silly to get in all the players that Roy wants then change the manager only to find out that these signings would not be included in his plans.

If your going to spend in january by all means get some wingers in but i,d go for a loan signing for a striker to minimise risk or make use of Babel and Jovanovic up front as these 2 have no future here as wingers and have both proved they can score goals. I,m going to be downbeat now as i have allready wrote off this season and i personally would assess the squad in the summer. We are not sure as to what will happen at the end of the season. If we do get top 4 then maybe NESV will give Roy a vote of confidence and keep him on. If we dont get top 4 then wholesale changes will have to be made IMO.