Do we have a great captain?

This thread is ridiculous!!!

Its very existence mocks one of our greatest players ever.

Anyone with sense can see Gerrard is a great captain.

bigmick your comment sums it up perfectly!

If the job of the captain ISN'T to smash in the winner against Olympiacos from 25 yards when we are within 90 seconds or something of going out of the Champions League, then Gerrard is no good at it. If it ISN'T to score the goal that gave us belief in the final when we were 3-0 down, before then winning the penalty which brought us back to 2-3 and single handedly turning the game on its head, then Gerrard isn't very good at it either. If it ISN'T to score a fantastic volley when we are 2-0 down in the Cup final, before scoring one of the best goals ever seen in the showpiece in the same match when we are 2-3 down with 15 seconds left, smashing it in from 35 yards out (before like in the Champions League final scoring from the spot too), then Gerrard isn't a good captain no.

 If the captains job ISN'T to drag us out of the s*** singlehandedly time after time after time after time, then Gerrard is useless at it. Some of our fans will never appreciate him until he doesn't play for us any more. When he doesn't, if they've got a clue they'll realise he is one of the best players to ever pulkl on the shirt, even quite possibly THE best.

Exactly. West Hams goal sums it up. Repeatedly dug us out of holes and stepped up when its needed. What more can you as from a captain. Look what happened when he took the England captancy due to injury, he stepped up and scored 2. I dont understand how anyone can question this.

If the job of the captain ISN'T to smash in the winner against Olympiacos from 25 yards when we are within 90 seconds or something of going out of the Champions League, then Gerrard is no good at it. If it ISN'T to score the goal that gave us belief in the final when we were 3-0 down, before then winning the penalty which brought us back to 2-3 and single handedly turning the game on its head, then Gerrard isn't very good at it either. If it ISN'T to score a fantastic volley when we are 2-0 down in the Cup final, before scoring one of the best goals ever seen in the showpiece in the same match when we are 2-3 down with 15 seconds left, smashing it in from 35 yards out (before like in the Champions League final scoring from the spot too), then Gerrard isn't a good captain no.

 If the captains job ISN'T to drag us out of the s*** singlehandedly time after time after time after time, then Gerrard is useless at it. Some of our fans will never appreciate him until he doesn't play for us any more. When he doesn't, if they've got a clue they'll realise he is one of the best players to ever pulkl on the shirt, even quite possibly THE best.

This completely misses the point of the question as far as I'm concerned.  Yes he does sometimes pull us through games singlehandedly, but other games he goes missing.  I really don't think it is a captain's job to singlehandedly pull us through games, it's F***ing great he can, but I believe it's a captains job to pull others along with him.

Steven Gerrard - Inspirational - A resounding YES.  An Inspirational Captain?  Not so sure.

I think I'll quietly step away from this thread before I upset some people.

I appreciate that forums such as this are all about opinion but I can't believe the question has even been asked.

Gerrard is our captain, our talisman, he is Liverpool FC.

This is my last post in here, I'll leave you to it.

THIS !

THIS  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 Top post Mick sums it up perfectly

& THIS !

 YES

I think it's safe to say the majority think that Stevie is a great captain. His positives certainly outweigh any negatives.

Yes we do have a great captain in Gerrard. Kelly is definitely one for the future.

Prime example of people latching on soundbites this thread is.

None of the AC Milan goals came from 'Gerrards poor defensive abilities.'

That seems to be phrase of the season at the moment.

The truth is this, Steven Gerrard is OUR captain.

Wish people would get off Carra and Stevies back, it is agenda driven once more, just cos again like Carra, not Rafas biggest fan. Get over it.

Prime example of people latching on soundbites this thread is.

None of the AC Milan goals came from 'Gerrards poor defensive abilities.'

That seems to be phrase of the season at the moment.

The truth is this, Steven Gerrard is OUR captain.

Wish people would get off Carra and Stevies back, it is agenda driven once more, just cos again like Carra, not Rafas biggest fan. Get over it.

Totally agree, 100%.

I cant beleive someone actually asked this question he is one of the greatest if not the greatest captain we have ever  had ....

Greatest ever captain ?? Seriously ? What about Hughes , Souness , Thompson and Hansen ?

Think people are mixing up outstanding player with outstanding captain - Gerrard leads by example - when he is playing well it works - the players follow the problem is when things aren't going well and Gerrard himself isn't playing well the team lacks a bit of leadership as he doesn't use his voice like people like Souness and Hughes etc . That what stands those players apart from Gerrard in terms of being a captain

 Captains must by their words, endeavours, demeanour etc etc inspire those around them to achieve more than they thought capable. The Roy Keanes, the Tony Adams', the John Terry's and the Graeme Sounness's did it their way, and Gerrard does it his way. Gerrards way is to take the game by the scruff of the kneck and win it for his team, not to jump up and down and berate people.

 Had it not been for Gerrard, we would have been years without a trophy. He is not just the captain, he is the talisman, the best player, the colossus upon which Liverpools fortunes depend and it has been thus for the last few years.

 Like Carragher in the other thread, it is frankly sad to see fellow Liverpool supporters be grudging in their respect for a true Liverpool legend. Sad, but unfortunately true.

Captains must by their words, endeavours, demeanour etc etc inspire those around them to achieve more than they thought capable. The Roy Keanes, the Tony Adams', the John Terry's and the Graeme Sounness's did it their way, and Gerrard does it his way. Gerrards way is to take the game by the scruff of the kneck and win it for his team, not to jump up and down and berate people.

 Had it not been for Gerrard, we would have been years without a trophy. He is not just the captain, he is the talisman, the best player, the colossus upon which Liverpools fortunes depend and it has been thus for the last few years.

 Like Carragher in the other thread, it is frankly sad to see fellow Liverpool supporters be grudging in their respect for a true Liverpool legend. Sad, but unfortunately true.

Tad melodramatic.  Don't think one person has dissed Gerrard as a player in this thread, but to ignore the flaws in his game, both as captain & player is a  sign of failure to remove your rose-tinted glasses.  One of the best three players I've seen at the club.  It is frankly sad to see Liverpool supporters be sycophantic and not discuss flaws in a Liverpool legend, because no player is perfect and it's a strength to recognise your weaknesses.  Unfortunate, but sadly true.

Yes it's all well and good when talking about Gerrard the player when he is playing well but how does he inspire when he isn't playing well ? He doesn't . It's also not a crime to be critical of both Gerrard or Carra just because they are scousers and two of our best players - no player is immune to criticism no matter what has been done . Torres has been given mountains of criticism over the recent months .

 Melodramatic? Immune from criticsm? Neither are accurate.

 Gerrard gets constantly "dissed" (can't believe I used that word ) in many threads. He's had us being 3-0 down in the Champions League final laid at his door in this one, his "indiscipline" was the chief culprit there apparantly. If we have a downturn in form, many are quick to jump upon him as being a chief non contributer, it happens all the time on Liverpool forums.

 Not I hasten to add that he isn't entitled to be criticised the same as everyone else, it's just when it gets a bit silly and vindictive that a response seems appropriate. He hasn't played anywhere near his best this season in truth, and if there was one criticism which could consistently be levelled at his door, it's his lack of trust at times in his teammates, as he tries to do everything himself. I can understand his frustration and his lack of confidence in some of them, because he is surrounded by some sub-standard players, but even so he has to realise sometimes that even HE can't do everything.

 As for the comparison with Torres, based on this seasons performances there isn't one so I'm not for the first time unsure what benny's point is.   

Captains must by their words, endeavours, demeanour etc etc inspire those around them to achieve more than they thought capable. The Roy Keanes, the Tony Adams', the John Terry's and the Graeme Sounness's did it their way, and Gerrard does it his way. Gerrards way is to take the game by the scruff of the kneck and win it for his team

Stevie, (in your words, not mine), is a great captain because he takes the game by the scruff of the kneck and wins it for his team.

If we you apply your logic then, which i'm happy to do, the question must be asked: What about the games that he didn't do just that (take the game by the scruff of the kneck and win it)? Was he a poor (or not so great) captain in such incidences?

I'm sorry but your logic doesn't stand up to any real scrutiny.

You appeal to the loyalty of others in the hope people will think you're right. Dismiss, as suspect, the loyalty of those who disagree with you but I think Rodenberry hit the nail on the head - you're being melodramatic mick. ...but only in the hope we don't have time to think about what you actually 'said'.  

 Don't do logic mate when discussing football, it rarely holds up. If we are to summise that Gerrard is a poor captain on the occasions that he doesn't take the game by the scruff of the neck and win it for us (to use your logic), then what about the occasions when the Mancs lost when Keane was captain, or we lost when Sounness was captain? Does it then follow that they were poor captains too?

 There's no "appealing to loyalty" either, I'm surprised at peoples lack of appreciation for Gerrard rather than their lack of loyalty. One day he won't play for us anymore, perhaps then they'll realise. 

If we're criticising Stevies captaining abilities because of the fralties in his game, I think we would all be hard pushed to find a player who doesn't have them in some part of their game.

For me, his positives outway the negatvies of his game, more so than any other outfield player on our team, thats why I would class him as the best candidate for our captain. If Pepe was an outfield player, I would be incilined to offer it to him, simply because I think he has the best attitude at this club and is simply an inspiration. However I have reservations about Keepers being captains, while Pepe would be able to give you the vocal encouragement and inspiration that Stevie sometimes lacks. I still think you need a captain to throw in a tackle, muscle out a few players or simply have a thundering shot at the goal to give everyone a lift, for me thats what Gerrard does.

I understand were people are coming from in their criticisms, but in the past two years, I could hardly blame him for sometimes thinking, "Bloody hell, what is going on here?". At the current moment, I just don't see us having another viable replacement as captain, Kelly looks like the best option for the future at the current moment for me. Until that time I won't be unhappy to see Stevie remain as captain until his retirement. Respect is a two way street, I think it would be unfair to remove the captaincy from him nearing the end of his career after what he has done for this club.

Who has a lack of appreciation for Gerrard ? Think everyone here will say he is a wonderful player and servant to the club there is just a few who have a few doubts about him being a great captain and the greatest captain we have had

Don't do logic mate when discussing football, it rarely holds up. If we are to summise that Gerrard is a poor captain on the occasions that he doesn't take the game by the scruff of the neck and win it for us (to use your logic), then what about the occasions when the Mancs lost when Keane was captain, or we lost when Sounness was captain? Does it then follow that they were poor captains too?

Nah mate. What follows is that we use more than one criteria when assessing what makes a great captain. Something I have done - something you have not. It would only be the case if I applied your shitty criteria but I don't.

If we used your only criteria; that a great captain ("takes the game by the scruff of the kneck and wins it for his team") it would be true that neither Keane nor Souness were great captains when they failed to do so. Your criteria not mine. Your words not mine.

Do you really believe that we are all stupid mick? Sadly, it certainly seems to be the case.

Now do me a favour quit being naughty and quit trying to twist my words. It won't wash.

If the question was do we have a great player, I WOULD HAVE NO HESITATION IN SAYING YES. Gerrard is without doubt a player able to take the game by the scruff of the neck, inspire those around him, and put in some wonderful displays. Without doubt one of our greatest players.

For the question is he a GREAT captain, I would say he is great on his day, but when he struggles, as we all know his head drops, his so called "body language" gives off the wrong signals and for me he then becomes a not so great a captain.

Emylyn Hughes always said that Smith was a better captain than he was because no matter how bad Smith was playing himself he was still driving the team on and just as vocal, whereas Hughes felt that when he had an off day he tended to disappear into his shell. I think this applies to Gerrard too.



A great player and a very good captain, but not a great one.   

If the question was do we have a great player, I WOULD HAVE NO HESITATION IN SAYING YES. Gerrard is without doubt a player able to take the game by the scruff of the neck, inspire those around him, and put in some wonderful displays. Without doubt one of our greatest players.

For the question is he a GREAT captain, I would say he is great on his day, but when he struggles, as we all know his head drops, his so called "body language" gives off the wrong signals and for me he then becomes a not so great a captain.

Emylyn Hughes always said that Smith was a better captain than he was because no matter how bad Smith was playing himself he was still driving the team on and just as vocal, whereas Hughes felt that when he had an off day he tended to disappear into his shell. I think this applies to Gerrard too.



A great player and a very good captain, but not a great one.  

My sentiments exactly - especially the sentence in bold.

Stevie has been a great player (the best for a long time) and a very good captain but not a 'great' captain.

A great player will win games but not all great players are captain. Similarly not all great captains are great players.