The "it's only the Carling Cup" debate

I blame Lucas he was no where to be seen in the center of midfield  

As much as I do like us to be competing and winning every game, I'm one who doesn't believe the league cup should be prioritised. Now I'm not going to argue that it would not be nice to win it because its silverware and watching your team lift any silverware is a buzz in it self. How ever I feel the league cup has in some ways become the sacrificial lamb and to be honest if I had to priorities the silverware then it would be League, Champions League, Fa Cup then League Cup. Now I'm as disappointed as any one that we lost last night but I've took it on the chin and tried to look for positives in what was a very good game barring the result going against us. Some people may say "It's only the League Cup", how ever that may be a poor choice of words when they are basically trying to sum up out of the 4 competitions we were in this is the one they'd take preference on being knocked out in and IMO thats all they are trying to convey.

^^ Exactly RedLFCBlood, that's what i explained earlier that i will stand by saying "its only the league cup", but that is because put in perspective to what we are targeting to achieve as a football club, that is what it is. Lowest priority, that's the reality.

Gutted we went out  ,we might get to the new wembley one of these days  when Rafa realizes all competitions are important ,a big mistake was letting Nemeth go out on loan what we could have done with him last night , man u  / wellbeck  arsenal/ merida Chelsea / kalou  all decent goalscorers that took them through , nemeth should be here helping our chances of gettig through in this competition .Since we got to the final  in 2005  our record is quite poor .

I see (some) logic in what you're saying lads but at the end of the day "its only the league cup" is a lame-ass excuse for not winning.

A trophy is a trophy and in the last three years, for example, I'd have taken "only the league cup" in return for what we won prioritised and didn't win. Losing is a hard habit to shake off and like it or not, success inevitably breeds success.

We should be trying to win everything instead of dismissing what we don't win as being immaterial.

So you would rather have us play our strongest team and get them injured or tired for the gmae against fulham? And would you rather not give any of the reserve team any sort of experience in the future and then expect them to become world star in 3 years when they do finally play? Nobody is HAPPY that we lost, but narrowly loosing against an arsenal team with THAT much talent isn't a thing to be sad about. Rafa has taken a lot of positives frfom that game and so have some if not most of us.

Absolutely sick we went out last night and out of all the trophies this is the least important but i do think we should treat it with a bit more respect.Yes i do agree we should give the young lads a bit of experience but they also get greater experience playing along side the better first team players.

We should be trying to win everything instead of dismissing what we don't win as being immaterial.

I also see the Logic in what your saying to be honest BBB, how ever take last year as an example had we Prioritised the league cup and you could say the FA cup as we went out in the 4th round as much as we did the Champions League and the League how would have that reflected in our final positions  in the remaining two competitions ?, I know its hypothetical but do you think it would have helped or do you think it could have been detrimental ?

The only time this becomes important is when your still actually in the tournament.  Once your gone, its the same old, same old "Its only the Carling Cup".   :

I'd like us to win everything but at the same time, I understand why a lot of the big clubs want to use the competition to blood youngsters and give fringe players a game. Now that we're out of it, there's even less chance of us seeing the likes of Eccleston, Pacheco, Kelly, Spearing and Degen getting a game and that's a shame.

The way I see it is that the media don't make much of a big deal about it. Therefore, if the media don't make a big thing of it then the advertisers and tv stations will follow suit. Rafa needs his strongest squad for the ENTIRE season and if there's not much coverage and revenue from advertisers I believe he is right to hold back his best players in case they get injured. As fans we are to blame also. I'll hazard a guess that last night wasn't a sellout? Hopefully I'm wrong. Also, we are now used to the other big clubs giving other squad members a run so I believe we all would be upset if Rafa tired the team out for pemiership/CL by playing his first choice 11 when the others aren't.
Would be nice to get to Wembley at some stage soon though!!

.... I believe we all would be upset if Rafa tired the team out for pemiership/CL by playing his first choice 11 when the others aren't.

That's a good point actually. If we'd played a stronger team, still lost and then lost again at the weekend, we'd all be complaining that Rafa shouldn't have played them all. Even worse if one had suffered an injury.

So you would rather have us play our strongest team and get them injured or tired for the gmae against fulham?

  Sweet jaysus what a feeble debating 'technique' Mist..... asking a leading, hypothetical,  no-win, question - you naughty man. You shouldn't really be trying to put words into my mouth - I can't remember saying either, that I'd  play our strongest team or I'd 'rather' get 'them' injured.

Now, having got that out of the way, I'll ask you this: what happens if our strongest team plays against the mighty Fulham and we suffer injuries? Or, Lord forbid, the wee diddicums get all tired? - See I'm guessing, if we carry your 'argument' through to it's logical conclusion, it's just as much a probability of our 'strongest team' being injured against Fulham as it may have been, should they have played against Arsenal. What do you reckon?

As we're dealing in hypothetical 'arguments' here; humour me young master Mist.... Surely you would have liked us to field our strongest team, tanked the Gunners, came away with no injuries, still in the cup, on a winning streak and in buoyant mood before the Fulham game?......my guess is, if you're being honest, you'll say yes.

Anyhow back to the debate: I'm my opinion (for the last time) no Red should accept defeat and quantify it by saying "it's only the League Cup" - by doing so we're pissing over the memory of those teams that won it 7 times for us in the past. They didn't think "it's only the League Cup" when they were lifting it for us - of that I'm sure!

If it's NOT "only the League Cup" when we're winning it they how the f**k can it be "only the League Cup" when we're fu**ed out of it? It's a lame, Manc(esque) way of looking at things and it gets on my moobs.  

YNWA

Sweet jaysus what a feeble debating 'technique' Mist..... asking a leading, hypothetical,  no-win, question - you naughty man. You shouldn't really be trying to put words into my mouth - I can't remember saying either, that I'd  play our strongest team or I'd 'rather' get 'them' injured.

Now, having got that out of the way, I'll ask you this: what happens if our strongest team plays against the mighty Fulham and we suffer injuries? Or, Lord forbid, the wee diddicums get all tired? - See I'm guessing, if we carry your 'argument' through to it's logical conclusion, it's just as much a probability of our 'strongest team' being injured against Fulham as it may have been, should they have played against Arsenal. What do you reckon?

As we're dealing in hypothetical 'arguments' here; humour me young master Mist.... Surely you would have liked us to field our strongest team, tanked the Gunners, came away with no injuries, still in the cup, on a winning streak and in buoyant mood before the Fulham game?......my guess is, if you're being honest, you'll say yes.

If our team gets injured against fulham, then thats just bad luck, but if they were to get injured in a game that holds nowhere near as much significance, wouldn't rafa be under a lot of pressure? I for one would certainly be criticising him. Also playing in the cup, then on saturday, then again on wednesday, isn't it asking too much of our players?

As we're dealing in hypothetical 'arguments' here; humour me young master Mist.... Surely you would have liked us to field our strongest team, tanked the Gunners, came away with no injuries, still in the cup, on a winning streak and in buoyant mood before the Fulham game?......my guess is, if you're being honest, you'll say yes.

My honest answer, before the game I said I wanted rafa to play the reserves. I was very happy when I saw the team sheet (well apart from plessis playing instead of Lucas). Our reserves deserve a chance to play first team football. They will never be able to get into the first team so I think in a competition that isn't as important, where arsenal are practically playing a full reserve team, It would have been unneccassary for us to field our strongest side. That being said we had more than enough experienced heads on the field to win the game, we just didn't perform.

Anyhow back to the debate: I'm my opinion (for the last time) no Red should accept defeat and quantify it by saying "it's only the League Cup" - by doing so we're pissing over the memory of those teams that won it 7 times for us in the past. They didn't think "it's only the League Cup" when they were lifting it for us - of that I'm sure!

Of course not. Nobody likes loosing, but thats football. Its not like our first team hasn't lost any games so we shouldn't be down in the dumps.

The Carling Cup is a chance for the fringe players to get a game and also the promising young players like ngog and spearing I don't really care about the Carling Cup

If our team gets injured against fulham, then thats just bad luck, but if they were to get injured in a game that holds nowhere near as much significance, wouldn't rafa be under a lot of pressure? I for one would certainly be criticising him. Also playing in the cup, then on saturday, then again on wednesday, isn't it asking too much of our players?

You're at it again young fella - trying to shore up an argument with hypothetical questions. Your argument relies solely on 'what ifs' and buts Mist. Instead of dealing in what might have happened why don't we look at what actually has happened, eh? The facts, if you want.

1: "Our reserves" have got a game.
2: "Our reserves" were beaten.
3: We are out of the League Cup.
4: "Our reserves" won't get another game in the League Cup.

"If my Granny would have had balls, she'd have been my Grandpa" but the thing is Mist, she didn't.  The one fact you'll be happy with is that "our reserves" got first team football.

In my opinion (and it is only that) our "reserves" against Arsenal's "reserves" hardly merits the title "First Team Football" but hey, if that's what you want to call it, so be it. In the end we are out of the Cup and there's the rub. You seem like an intelligent bloke Mist but it's apparent, to me, that you want to win an argument so much it stands in the way of applying logic and dealing with the facts.

Back on topic - For the purpose of this debate, logic dictates that: "if it's only the League Cup" (as some on here would suggest) when we're dumped out of it then: "it's only the League Cup" when we win it. Carrying that logic forward, it would appear that some are happy to write off a major part of our glorious history as being of little significance. Surely you can see this?

Anyhow this is my last post on a subject that agitates the living f**k out of me. 

YNWA.

We're Liverpool Football Club. I hate losing ANY game repeat ANY game.

Great shout Chats.