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      Average players - Mistakes to avoid in the future.

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      kevinho
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      Re: Average players-Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #69: Mar 01, 2011 04:01:03 pm
      You can't have 11 world superstars, it simply won't work. You need the lesser players to the donkey work.

      I'd say we have two out and ourt world stars in the side right now - Reina and Gerrard - both who have been below par since the season began with the odd glimpse of brilliance. That isn't enough. Suarez may prove to be world class and Carroll may become as valuable to the side as John Toshack was in the 70s.

      But out wide, we have no world stars and haven't done for years. Going back to when we were successful, we had some of the best wingers this League has seen Peter Thompson and Cally during the 60s. Stevie Heighway and Cally during the 70s. And Barnes during the 80s. We also had the hard working wingers of Ray Kennedy/Jimmy Case/Sammy Lee/Ray Houghton/Ronnie Whelan but these were playing with the best central players we've had - Rush/Beardsley and feeding off Molby. Or Dalglish/Rush feeding off Souness. That's why Kuyt and Benayoun were so good that year in 08/09 because Torres/Gerrard were feeding off Xabi.

      The creativity didn't have to come from wide and they could do a solid job. Now we don't have that player so the emphasis is out wide again. And we don't have the players out there to do the job.

      At the back, we have average defenders so we're bound to look average. We were spoilt for years with great defenders then the 90s hit us and we never had a great centre half to partner Mark Wright. Then we got back on track with Babbel/Henchoz/Hyypia/Carra and then Finnan/Carra/Hyypia/Riise, then Arbeloa/Carra/Hyypia/Aurelio. Now the defence lacks the prescence of Sami, Ron Yeats, Tommy Smith, Phil Thompson, Alan Hansen and the recovery players like Emlyn, Lawrenson, Carra as well as reliable full backs.

      We don't have anybody who will win every hearder and Carra is past the days of those last ditch tackles. The full backs look alright with kelly on the right Johnson on the left, but if that changes I worry. As I did against West Ham once Kelly went off.

      All in all the squad, with a couple of additions, probably could cope with the average players we have. But in it's current state, it's not gonna deliver what we want. And it's not only in ability where we're average but also belief, fight and concentration.

      I agree with everything you said, DLS. But our squad does technically still have a Sammy Lee. Put him out there, let's see what he can do :) Problem solved.
      brezipool
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      Re: Average players-Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #70: Mar 01, 2011 04:04:29 pm
      Sammy Lee = Jay spearing.

      ;D.
      reddebs
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      Re: Average players-Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #71: Mar 01, 2011 04:25:42 pm
      I agree with everything you said, DLS. But our squad does technically still have a Sammy Lee. Put him out there, let's see what he can do :) Problem solved.

      We could do with a Steve McMahon too and he's still here, get him out there too  ;)
      lfc_ynwa
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      Re: Average players-Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #72: Mar 01, 2011 04:27:30 pm
      You can't have 11 world superstars, it simply won't work. You need the lesser players to the donkey work.


      Barcelona do have 11 world superstars in each position, is it working for them?
      little-Luis:)
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      Re: Average players-Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #73: Mar 01, 2011 04:29:13 pm
      11 World class players in each position? Jesus imagine we had that, 121 players we could pick from ;D
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Average players-Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #74: Mar 01, 2011 04:30:55 pm
      Barcelona do have 11 world superstars in each position, is it working for them?

      I wouldn't call Valdes a world superstar though, he's a decent keeper, but not world class.
      reddebs
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      Re: Average players-Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #75: Mar 01, 2011 04:41:02 pm
      Barcelona do have 11 world superstars in each position, is it working for them?

      They're defense isn't up to much.  They rely on the goalscorers to win them games but that doesn't always work for them either.

      The main reason they look so good is because they've played together since they were kids.  Ten years plus of playing exactly the same way with exactly the same players next to you, of course it's easy.

      If they had all been bought as World Class players and brought together a couple of years ago they might not have gelled.
      kevinho
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      Re: Average players-Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #76: Mar 01, 2011 04:54:17 pm
      Barcelona do have 11 world superstars in each position, is it working for them?

      I would hardly call Milito/Abidal world superstars, Pedro is not quite there yet, Puyol is somewhat past it. I think the fact that they play with Messi, Xavi and Iniesta makes all of them look better, but elsewhere I doubt they would be considered world-class players. I guess it also depends on your definition of world-class.
      lfc_ynwa
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      Re: Average players-Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #77: Mar 01, 2011 04:57:54 pm
      I would hardly call Milito/Abidal world superstars, Pedro is not quite there yet, Puyol is somewhat past it. I think the fact that they play with Messi, Xavi and Iniesta makes all of them look better, but elsewhere I doubt they would be considered world-class players. I guess it also depends on your definition of world-class.

      Valdes- Not world class
      Alves - World class
      Pique - World class
      Puyol - Very good
      Abidal- World class
      Sergio - World class
      Xavi -World class
      Iniesta - World class
      Messi - World class
      Villa - World class
      Pedro - World class

      That's 2 positions where they haven't got a world class player IMO.
      Reprobate
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      Re: Average players-Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #78: Mar 01, 2011 05:06:55 pm
      Reina - World class
      Alves - World class
      Pique - World class
      Puyol - Very good
      Abidal- World class
      Sergio - World class
      Xavi -World class
      Iniesta - World class
      Messi - World class
      Villa - World class
      Pedro - World class
      They'll be ok next season then  :f_whistle:
      racerx34
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      Re: Average players-Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #79: Mar 01, 2011 05:18:36 pm
      So long as there is a quality spine the squad players can rotate and for the most part fight for a place. Our big problem is we no longer have a quality spine. 
      macca8
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      Re: Average players-Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #80: Mar 01, 2011 05:21:20 pm
      A team of Stevie G's -it's an FM fantasy.
      A team of Stevie G's and Aurelio's - that's reality and we really need to work on that.
      A team of Poulsen's - deep sh*t!

      Seriously, do we have to turn this thread to a compare your average players thread? There's a players thread and there's General Football forum to where we can discuss anything.

      Barcelona is a class above, that's it (which we're the only team capable of giving s**t to them). They nurtured superstars not bought them. There maybe occasions where they have to buy but not every single window they bought someone. Their 1st eleven apart from Villa, who else did they bought? Xavi, Iniesta, Valdes, Messi, Pedro, Busquets, Puyol all were product of their youth system. In Xavi, Iniesta, Pedro and Busquets they got the best midfielders in the world, not to mention the likes of Masch, Abidal in their disposal to which they can easily rotate whenever they feel fit. Unlike Madrid who has to buy every single fu*king players in the world to justify the name Real Madrid, they need not to buy heavily. Just buy 1 or 2 squad members to fill in the blanks. I don't see any club in the world could do that right now. We're actually moving in the right direction as what Barca did.We got a fine youth system and some of the most exciting young talents to boast.

      The question remains, how good is our average players compared to other teams? Any given time, when we are up against the top teams, there's no question about our players but when it comes to the likes of Bolton or even Blackpool, we were made a mediocre team by the average team. How did that happened. That's why I said before you can have which ever player you want name it Messi or Zigic, it's their mentality that matters. Messi could be firing blanks at some point and Zigic could be banging goals every single game, who knows? And how do you rate an average player? By their respective clubs and leagues? Or by how many caps they've won? Or how popular they are? Torres is an example of how a superstar could turn out s**t sometimes. He was phenomenal with us but after his injuries, his performance dropped and now he's become more average than Carlton Cole should be. Averageness is in the state of mind. We tend to judge the averageness by their name, popularity, clubs/league.

      We do need superstars in our team but we really need squad players also. No point of having 11 superstars on the field but failed to play as a team. I'd rather have a team of Stevie's with the help of Maxi's than having a squad full of Drogba's. It's the mentality that sees us through and Birmingham proved to us by beating Arsenal, a team far more better than them.
      kevinho
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      Re: Average players-Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #81: Mar 01, 2011 05:22:31 pm
      Valdes- Not world class
      Alves - World class
      Pique - World class
      Puyol - Very good
      Abidal- World class
      Sergio - World class
      Xavi -World class
      Iniesta - World class
      Messi - World class
      Villa - World class
      Pedro - World class

      That's 2 positions where they haven't got a world class player IMO.


      Agree to disagree mate :)

      Back on topic, there are places and needs for average-above average players. We are lacking in the world class department at this moment. Bring in a couple class players to move the average guys to the bench, the squad is a lot deeper and better suited to a long season.
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Average players-Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #82: Mar 01, 2011 05:43:43 pm
      Barcelona do have 11 world superstars in each position, is it working for them?

      No they don't but never mind.
      reddebs
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      Re: Average players-Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #83: Mar 01, 2011 05:53:15 pm
      What Kenny will be aiming for over the next few years is a well balanced, consistant group of players.  

      Within that will be some world class players, some very good players, some utility players and a sprinkling of youth.

      Liverpool FC has never been about having the best 11 in the world, it's been about having the best TEAM in the world.

      The team comes first, middle and last.  

      s@int
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      Re: Average players - Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #84: Mar 01, 2011 07:53:15 pm
      How on earth is an IQ test going to tell if a player suits the mentality of the club??? I'm sure Wenger scouts players and assesses them on a number of things external to the footballing ability but I'm not sure an IQ test will help very much. Mind you, it would explain why he let ashley cole go!

      REVEALED: How psychologist Jacques Crevoisier assesses the cream of Arsene Wenger's talent
      By Sportsmail Reporter
      Last updated at 12:51 AM on 27th October 2010
      Comments (0) Add to My Stories
      Jacques Crevoisier is the man behind the intelligence tests that Arsenal's youngsters face during their progression at the club.

      The 62-year-old psychologist devised this 117-question psychometric test to judge whether the stars of the future have the brains to match their skills.
       The brains behind the operation: French psychologist Jacques Crevoisier
      You will find a series of sentences or assertions, dealing with training situations or football competition.

      For each of these assertions, could you indicate to what extent each of them can apply to you.

      To do so, you have to put a circle, corresponding to the number you’ll have chosen on the answer sheet.

      0 means : 'Disagree entirely'

      1 means : 'Agree a little'

      2 means : 'Agree on the whole'

      3 means : 'Agree entirely'

      1 I play football because there are always interesting situations in the game

      2 My objective is to improve my weak points and my personal level with hard work

      3 I can maintain a physical effort over a long period of time

      4 People see me as a sound and balanced person, who is not influenced by ups and downs of life

      5 Before acting, I naturally think of the consequences of my actions

      6 When I am beside myself with anger, I quickly cool off

      7 When I fail, I tend to lose heart

      8 If my adversaries knew my thoughts, they would be frightened

      9 I am able to keep my temper, even if I have been provoked

      10 I like football, because competition enables me to know more about myself

      11 Even during training, I want to show I am better than the others

      12 If I take something on, I see it through to the end

      13 It is hard to me to concentrate enough on an exercise

      14 Sometimes I react too quickly

      15 My mood often shifts from happiness to sadness and vice versa, without I know why

      16 Bad conditions (environment) don’t prevent me from working to the utmost of my ability

      17 I would like to take my revenge in case of aggression or grave offence

      18 When I watch a match (as a spectator), I rarely take a team’s side

      19 People can say that I am ready to win at any cost

      20 I always try to play for the team

      21 I feel able to train on my own very hard, if I am asked

      22 I would like sometimes that everything is over, before starting

      23 I am considered as an even tempered person

      24 When facing unpleasant situations, I usually keep my temper

      25 When spectators criticise me during a match, I tend to lose confidence

      26 I feel sorry when I involuntary give a kick to an adversary

      27 I can not understand someone who is rude towards the referee, who penalizes a team

      28 I know exactly what I am expected to do on the pitch before the match begins

      29 I am happy with my role in the team and with the responsibilities I have been given

      30 I can’t adapt easily to efforts made on a long length of time

      31 At school, it was difficult for me to speak in front of the class

      32 Coaches that speak to much before matches get on my nerves

      33 Sometimes, when the moment has come to play a match, for wich I was prepared, I don’t feel like playing anymore

      34 I can’t concentrate for a long time

      35 I prefer sports where there is a direct contact with the adversary

      36 Even if I am not directly implied, I always play a special attention to what the coach says before the match

      37 I am sometimes afraid of not being good enough against really strong opponents

      38 I sometimes feel worried and frustrated because of my results

      39 I have problems to persevere in some training exercises

      40 My mood is easily influenced by people who surround me

      41 I sometimes tend to act with a sudden impulse

      42 I am either optimistic or pessimistic before a match

      43 I never give up, even if I don’t obtain an immediate success

      44 I don’t like to play against aggressive adversaries

      45 During a match, I never try to cheat

      46 I usually work very hard during training sessions because I know training is vital if I want to improve

      47 When I play football my objective is always to get better

      48 If I consider my training level, I see myself as a very tough person

      49 It seems to me that I make more often things that I regret later on, than the others

      50 I sometimes have sudden unthinking impulses

      51 I sometimes feel annoyed because of a recurrent thought, which comes in my mind

      52 The match environment, either hostile or aggressive does not affect me

      53 Intimidations, before or during the match tend to stimulate or over-excite me

      54 I always show respect to the referee

      55 I think of myself as a player who gives of his best on the field and who is ready to make a lot of sacrifices in order to succeed

      56 I only experience a feeling of success, when I show my direct adversary that I am better than him

      57 I am a workaholic, till I am entirely satisfied with the result

      58 I am considered as a serious person

      59 I often start a new activity, before ending the previous one

      60 I usually don’t worry when I go through a bad spell, because I know it won’t last

      61 I generally need to be encouraged by my friends

      62 In my activity, I like to surpass myself

      63 In any circumstances, a sportsman has to control his reactions

      64 I don’t think one should cheat, even if it could make one win the match

      65 A footballer gets the most satisfaction from being a member of a team

      66 I feel able to achieve the long term goals I had fixed

      67 It is difficult to me to start a discussion with people I am not acquainted with

      68 I usually analyse the pros and cons before I begin an activity

      69 In any circumstances, I generally am able to keep my self control

      70 When I face hardships, I tend to easily give up

      71 I rarely hate my adversaries during a match

      72 Nothing is more unendurable to me than hearing someone criticize a member of my team

      73 I am capable of putting the interest of the team above my own personal interest

      74 I think that everyone should make an effort to contribute to the good of the team

      75 Even if I don’t obtain results right away, I carry on working very hard

      76 I don’t like to show off

      77 I usually start a match without previously plan anything

      78 I often feel tense even when facing slight problems

      79 The severe criticisms of the coach tend to break me down

      80 When I am a victim of an offence, I rarely try to take my revenge

      81 I have never accepted that supporters could insult the referee or the adversary, when a decision is not in their favour

      82 I am rarely impressed by my partners or adversaries, because I have great confidence in my abilities as a football player

      83 As a footballer, I take an interest in all compartments of the game (including complicated technical aspects)

      84 If I compare myself to the other members of the team, I am more able to accept the hard trainings than they are

      85 I certainly lack self confidence

      86 On the whole, I think of myself as a level-headed person who thinks carefully before acting

      87 If my emotions did not overwhelm me, I would feel much better

      88 When my attention is distracted by something, I am able not to think about it till the end of the game

      89 I would be ready to aggress an adversary if it made me win

      90 I always submit to the decisions taken by the majority of the players of my team without complaining

      91I think that a player should try to make progress whatever his age at any rate, that is my objective

      92 I hate losing and will keep fighting to avoid defeat right up to the final whistle

      93 To reach the top level, I am ready to accept long and fastidious trainings

      94 When training, I am considered as a hard worker

      95 I usually have sharp reactions

      96 I sometimes feel tired and nonchalant without any reason

      97 A failure does not affect my determination

      98 When someone kicks me, I tend to fight back

      99 In my opinion a sportsman should always respect his adversary

      100 I experience a feeling of success when other people fail, but me

      101 Competition makes me go beyond certain limits, even if I have to hurt my adversary

      102 When confronted to a task, I work with energy and perseverance, because I know it is the price to pay if I want to improve my results

      103 There are moments when my future seems rather gloomy to me

      104 I always take time to reflect before taking any decision

      105 In most cases I act with enthusiasm but without nerves

      106 I am usually very disheartened when a match start in a bad way

      107 I feel perfectly able, as a player, to stand up to any adversary

      108 Nothing is more important to me than to do a good job, as a member of the team

      109 First of all I try to carry out my mission in the team to the best of my ability

      110 I think I possess the necessary natural qualities to have a successful career in football

      111 I feel disheartened at the thought of a long and hard training

      112 Sometimes I feel frightened for reasons I can not explain

      113 When I prepare a match, I prefer to have a plan of action

      114 The night before a match it is difficult to me to fall asleep

      115 Momentary failures do not prevent me from carrying on the goals I had fixed

      116 I am ready to hurt my adversary in order to win

      117 I have never made any criticisms behind my coaches back.

                                 --------------------------------------------------

      Not sure if this helps mate  


      corballyred
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      Re: Average players - Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #85: Mar 01, 2011 08:00:50 pm
      The problem I have with questions like that, you can always answer them how you think people want rather than what you really think
      tezmac
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      Re: Average players - Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #86: Mar 01, 2011 08:17:28 pm
      One of our great failing rather than spend big we buy 2 mediocre players, pay peanuts you ger monkeys
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Average players - Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #87: Mar 01, 2011 08:23:20 pm
      The problem I have with questions like that, you can always answer them how you think people want rather than what you really think

      That is why they should make them take this test verbally with a lie detector..... :lmao:
      Reprobate
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      Re: Average players - Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #88: Mar 01, 2011 08:29:13 pm
      The problem I have with questions like that, you can always answer them how you think people want rather than what you really think
      I did a similar test for my current employers (thought not football based) and was sceptical. All we were asked to do was be honest. I spoke to my manager informally at a later date and said that he was also sceptical at first but has found them to be a very very accurate tool in assessing a candidate's personality. They are also designed to pick up when someone is lying. Although the tests look simple, I'm assuming there's more to analysing the results than we appreciate.
      reddebs
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      Re: Average players - Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #89: Mar 01, 2011 08:41:56 pm
      The problem I have with questions like that, you can always answer them how you think people want rather than what you really think

      With psychometric testing there are no right or wrong answers and the analysis afterwards is quite startling.

      They can be used for all sorts of things but are generally used in conjunction with other recruitment techniques.
      Billo
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      Re: Average players - Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #90: Mar 01, 2011 08:47:39 pm
      No team in the world try to buy a average player, no matter what price they are paying. Everybody want to find the new big name in the game.
      s@int
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      Re: Average players - Mistakes to avoid in the future.
      Reply #91: Mar 01, 2011 09:38:45 pm
      Nicklas Bendtner scores 10 out of 9 in confidence test [Saturday, February 05, 2011 ]
      Arsenal striker Nicklas Bendtner has proved his extreme self-confidence far greater than that of your average egoist by getting a score off the scale in a self-confidence test.

      The 23-year-old has made several comments in the media over the years highlighting his belief in himself and many have suggested that his confidence borders on arrogance.

      He claimed earlier this season that, when fully fit, he should always be in the Arsenal starting line-up, and famously told all and sundry that he was going to win the Golden Boot at last year's World Cup.

      Recently, Arsenal use psychological tests to determine their players' mental abilities in relation to their footballing qualities and Bendtner is certainly not lacking in one area.

      Psychologist Jacques Crevoisier, interviewed by Swedish magazine Offside, said: "One of the categories is called 'self perceived competence,' i.e. how good the player himself thinks he is. On a scale up to 9, Bendtner got 10!

      "We have never seen that before. (Assistant manager) Pat Rice was sitting next to me and couldn't stop laughing.

      "When Bendtner misses a chance, he is always genuinely convinced that it wasn't his fault. You might say that's a problem, and to a certain degree it can be.

      "But you can also view it as this guy has an remarkably ability to come back after setbacks."

      The test is made-up of 117 questions designed to test players' self-belief, concentration levels and determination and is overseen by Crevoisier, who specialises in working with young French players at France's Clairefontaine academy.

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