Average players - Mistakes to avoid in the future.

The thing with these tests is that questions are spaced out in certain ways to ask the same question in different ways (testing honesty) also testing separate parts of the brain by spacing of questions and can also determine mental endurance and focussing levels.  As far as Mick's OP, I forgot what it was, But I think we have way too many below par players in our squad, I am now angry at my father , I like the 3-5-2 setup, I fear the color orange, Carrick is a holding midfielder, I strongly agree that a women with curves is sexy, now that quality has been brought in, I'm getting Sleepy, All is not lost.  Kenny will lead us back, I have a craving for pizza. 

Those tests screw me up.

good topic really, we are loaded with average players indeed! we need top notch players really,that goes for our defense which i have to say is totally shitless,and we need individual briliance from a special player that we need to have caz every team has one that delivers when the team is not performing,someone like messi,ronaldo,or might i say it drogba! we cant rely only on gerrard alone only, the performace against west ham showed that! Players like Ngong,skirtel,maxi,poulsen, has to leave ,lucas we have to keep,kuyt gives his all when well rested,but he should not start every match,strengthen our defense with a hard tackling stopper ,invest more in the striking force and top 4 here we come!

Problem is with this is you have to define the word average in the context of the situation. For example in 2000 how would you have described a 35 year old who was signed. Probably average at best. But would you say with the benefit of hindsight that Gary Mac had an average impact on that team?
Look at the double winning side of 86. I'd class at least 7 of that squad including 2/3 regulars as average.
The 2008/9 team that finished 2nd had any number of 'average' players including at least 5 who are still here.
Average is not a bad thing if it is combined with excellence and rotation. Its when average becomes the norm that you have problems.

Sorry if its already been said, I haven't read every post in here.

But the problem we've had and have had for years which i bang on about all the time is we purchase several players for high wedge who aren't proven premiership players.

Think of all the flops we've had in the last decade. The vast majority of them were bought mainly as prospects and theres been one or two top players bought from other leagues such as morientes but hes still not proven in the premiership.

Ofcourse there are other times when we have bought players from other leagues who have been a success, alonso, torres etc, but I still strongly believe the way to go about improving our squad is signing players who have proved they can play in the prem at a top standard. We have to go out and buy premiership players, even if that means spending more money.

The average players in our squad need to go. Theres a handfull who could play a role in the squad such as kuyt, cole, lucas and maybe 1 or 2 others but the absolute sh*te such as jovanovic, sotis, maxi, ngog, spearing etc they have to go now.

Going back to the first opening post where it states 'ngog wouldnt get into the top 5s squads' exactly! spot on. I use this point for other players too and its not because those top 5 clubs have world class players in that position, its simply because ngog and some others are that sh*te that those clubs would never look at him in a million years.

The brains behind the operation: French psychologist Jacques Crevoisier

Didn't he work for us under Houllier after Patrice Bergues left the club?

We need proven quality players only, no maybe's or "he is the new" type players

when we have a quality team THEN you can take the chance with some squad players that may or may not be the new ronaldo etc.

But KK knows that, and the summer is going to be interesting, we'll see who has put the effort in on the training ground and who is plainly just sh*te.

the absolute sh*te such as jovanovic, sotis, maxi, ngog, spearing etc they have to go now.

I'd disagree with Sotis mate. He has looked good for us on more than one occasion this season and he is a full back who scores his share of headers etc too. As for Spearing, I can understand what your saying but I reckon he's getting a second wind under Kenny and he's still only young too. Maxi Ngog and Jova, I'd be inclined to agree with you on. They have been woeful! I used to stick up for Ngog and compare him with Sturridge...as they are the same age and up until Sturridge went out on loan, Ngog had a better scoring record...but now the difference is vastly obvious! There's times I've wondered if Ngog can actually kick a ball straight without tripping over himself!

i agree with what was said but there are players waiting in the wings who might fill the spots which would be left vacant. a manager should not be playing players on past performances.. watch top managers they bench top players if they are playing poorly.and limit time frames on young players ngog was given way to much time and babel.kuyt and there are others who just should be bit players.

I'd disagree with Sotis mate. He has looked good for us on more than one occasion this season and he is a full back who scores his share of headers etc too. As for Spearing, I can understand what your saying but I reckon he's getting a second wind under Kenny and he's still only young too. Maxi Ngog and Jova, I'd be inclined to agree with you on. They have been woeful! I used to stick up for Ngog and compare him with Sturridge...as they are the same age and up until Sturridge went out on loan, Ngog had a better scoring record...but now the difference is vastly obvious! There's times I've wondered if Ngog can actually kick a ball straight without tripping over himself!

Sotis is a solid defender and i agree hes a threat in the air, its also an advantage defensively because he is the only defender currently at the club who can challenge in the air. The rest of them are piss poor.

However in my opinion hes extremely slow, not only pace wise but thinking wise. Hes very poor on the ball and im usually quite concerned and worried when he plays.

Hes not getting any younger and I feel there are far better defenders out there who could replace him.

Spearing would have to go too for me because he will never be the standard that the likes of stevie or raul is or the standard most importantly that the current midfielders in the prem playing for our rivals have set. Spearing for me, will never be at that level which is why i don't think hes good enough for LFC.

Just don't rate either of them mate, not for a side who wants to be at the top of the table. I just couldn't imagine either sotis or spearing lining up for chelsea, arsenal, city, spurs or united.

Im usually quite concerned and worried when he plays.

I can understand what you're saying mate...but by the same token Skrtel scares the sh*t out of me at times to! Any time the ball drops to a player near him in the box I hold my breath in fear of him giving away a silly penalty. I don't know I just believe Sotis is a good CB to have on the bench.
Jay has had a couple of good games this season...so I have mixed views. I understand that he should have shown more signs by now if he was going to amount to anything but people also said the same about Nani for the scum. Im not suggesting that Jay can be as skillful as Nani or anything like that, but he could develop into a great player over the next year....by the same token he could turn into Neil Mellor.

Possibly, think it's a gamble giving spearing a run in the team for 10-15 games though myself to see if he can cut it at this level, thats the only way we would ever know I suppose. He played well in the derby in particular but theres been european games earlier on in the season and against sides like northampton where jay should have ran riot and if anything, he got bossed by the opposition. I admit he hasn't had the amount of playing time to come to a conclusion about him but from what I've seen of him so far I'm not convinced he is good enough.

Its difficult to compare somebody like nani although i understand your point and I agree there are times somebodys been written off and has come back to prove a point, but hes a foreign lad whoose not used to english football and couldnt speak a word of english. He was likely to struggle. Spearing though has come up through the ranks, knows the set up, knows the club, knows the football, knows the players, if he was good enough personally I think by now we would have seen it. I don't think he's got any excuses.

No team in the world try to buy a average player, no matter what price they are paying. Everybody want to find the new big name in the game.

Konchesky?

if you are being unrealistic about it (I'll qualify that in as mo) then you're looking at shipping out, Jones, Konchesky, Aurelio, Cole, Jovanovic, Kyrgiakos, Maxi, Kuyt, Lucas, N'gog, Poulsen and Skrtel.
Trouble is then you are looking at a first team of Reina Johnson Carragher Agger Kelly Gerrard Meireles ? ? Suarez and Carroll with a bench of kids.
So fringe players who can still do a job like Lucas, Skrtel Kuyt have to stay.
So you are looking to replace 8 members of your first team squad.
Lets assume that 2-3 kids come through. Thats 5 players.
Now what's an 'above average' player going to cost us? 15-20 million?
do we have 75-100 million to spend in the summer?
and if the kids don't come through do we have £160m?

Possibly, think it's a gamble giving spearing a run in the team for 10-15 games though myself to see if he can cut it at this level, thats the only way we would ever know I suppose. He played well in the derby in particular but theres been european games earlier on in the season and against sides like northampton where jay should have ran riot and if anything, he got bossed by the opposition. I admit he hasn't had the amount of playing time to come to a conclusion about him but from what I've seen of him so far I'm not convinced he is good enough.

Its difficult to compare somebody like nani although I understand your point and I agree there are times somebodys been written off and has come back to prove a point, but hes a foreign lad whoose not used to english football and couldnt speak a word of english. He was likely to struggle. Spearing though has come up through the ranks, knows the set up, knows the club, knows the football, knows the players, if he was good enough personally I think by now we would have seen it. I don't think he's got any excuses.

There's one flaw to this theory that I think happens a lot.
Steven Gerrard gets to play with Luis Suarez and before him some spaniard whose name just escapes me. Now because the forward has speed of thought and movement he can make a good ball from Gerrard into a great ball and a great ball into a goal thus making Gerrard look good (not that I'm suggesting he isn't). most of the time Spearing plays with N'Gog who doesn't have the same movement,  the same speed of thought the same speed. Thus he turns a good ball from Spearing into a poor one making Spearing look poor. Unless someone on the coaching staff can recognise this then they are going to think he can't cut it at that level. Until they get the chance to have a run in the full first team and play with people who can make the most of his opportunities you will never know.

Interesting post that JR but if Spearing or any other player had bossed those games and had made several tackles throughout, had put ngog clean through on a number of occasions, was spreading the play for 90minutes with beautiful passing, it doesn't matter if the assists or goals don't go down on his stats, the fans would still be well aware of his contribution anyway. The fact is though, hes played in a handfull of games against poor opposition where he should have got a grip of the game if he was any sort of player. Ive seen him get outplayed a few times this season against players that in all honesty I think i could compete with!

Good argument about hes bound to play better in a better team, something i completely agree with but back to my post earlier, I think its a gamble in giving him that run in the team. You'd have to give the lad half a season to then judge him completely and with centre mid being in my opinion the most important position on the field its just too much of a gamble, one that he hasn't earnt based on his poor performances against poor opposition. If he, or any other player, stood out in those type of games then they would deserve some sort of call up to the first team. I don't think Spearing falls into that category though.

I suppose it'll remain to be seen with Jay for the rest of the season...but I think playing him against United shows that Kenny obviously sees something in him anyway. I suppose another way to look at it is we gave Lucas a long time to settle in and play well...he's displayed a massive improvement, but by the same token he's not a world class player. The question is, should we wait for Spearing to turn into a decent good player, or should we get rid and buy someone who's head and shoulders above?
(I probably look like I'm back-pedalling all over the place here ha!)

What concerns me with spearing is neither Rafa, Roy or KK have given him the nod over either Lucas or Poulsen. Even the die hard lucas fans and poulsen fans (if there are any out there) will admit neither are exactly fantastic players.

If Jay had the talent of somebody like wilshere for example, then surely he would have burst into the side just like wilshere did?

Jay Spearing four years ago was coming off the back of two youth cup victories and being tipped for big things by most of us who'd watched the youth/reserve games. And was, apparently, highly thought of by the staff at Anfield. Personally I said he could and would make it at this club.

Now, I'm certain he won't. Reason being he wasn't given enough playing time during his late teens so never developed into the player his early years suggested he could. Same thing could well happen with Pacheco. If Kenny had been manager for the last six years, then I'd hazzard a guess that Jay would of broke into the side and by now been a mainstay in the first team squad because I think Kenny is more likely to give the young British lads a go like he has with Wilson and Kelly in recent weeks.

Hodgson doesn't bring kids through - period. And I don't feel many foriegn managers give the young British kids a real go. They do tend to favour the kids from abroad.

Jay Spearing four years ago was coming off the back of two youth cup victories and being tipped for big things by most of us who'd watched the youth/reserve games. And was, apparently, highly thought of by the staff at Anfield. Personally I said he could and would make it at this club.

Now, I'm certain he won't. Reason being he wasn't given enough playing time during his late teens so never developed into the player his early years suggested he could.

That. As well as being on the ale with the lads all the F***ing time!

As for Pacheco, still think he's class and will get a chance. Can't see him on the ale all the time either.

Now or never for Spearing I think he's got one last chance and to me he's shown enough to be part of our squad next season recently, well if he keeps it up anyway.

I can't see him pushing out a fit again Shelvey next year. Good little player, but the change came too late for him. The loan deals made a big difference, but he really needs a full season. A lot of our top young players could do with good loan spells.

Now or never for Spearing I think he's got one last chance and to me he's shown enough to be part of our squad next season recently, well if he keeps it up anyway.

Honestly I think if here was that much faith in the coaching staff for Jay then we never would have bought Shelvey. Jay still has a slim chance with Shelvey out injured but he's gonna need some big displays I think. I honestly wish him the best with us but my honest assessment of him is that he really needs to step up to a level we haven't seen from him yet.

If this isn't a peverse thing to say the problem with Liverpool is that we rarely play in meaningless games. Chances are we will be battling right down to the wire in the league for european football next year. If we were safe in mid table we could afford to give some of the youngsters a run in the team to see how they fared.