The way forward

Long read. Also, feel free to merge

Ok, so we're all down in the dumps and fuming at another pitiful performance from our beloved Reds - against Wigan no less. Top 4 aspirations might officially be gone, and we're going to need to strengthen in the summer.

But since we have a number of games left, what's the best way to go forward in the last few games of the season? Let's have an open and honest discussion of tactics and team selection for the rest of the season without being pissy at each other and avoiding the holier-than-though and hate-to-say-I-told-you so mentality.

I'll start it off. Here's some stuff I want to see (Maxi and Bellamy are interchangeable):

4-3-2-1
Reina
Johnson Skrtel Coates Enrique
Downing     Spearing        Maxi
Gerrard   Suarez
Carroll

The Christmas Tree, but not in the sense that you play ugly long ball, but a hybrid of styles. I think this might get the most of Carroll, who could knock down balls into the box for Suarez and Gerrard to run on to, or he can be used to hold up play on the counter for Suarez and Gerrard. Luis likes to drop deep and Stevie’s better in an advanced role, so this formation would enable both players to run with the ball at their feet, pass to Carroll, and then get played through by Andy.

4-2-3-1
Reina
Johnson Skrtel Coates Enrique
Spearing Gerrard
Kuyt   Suarez   Maxi
Carroll

I love the 4-2-3-1 formation, but I don't think we quite have the personnel for it, though. I think, if anything, this should be used against some of the bigger sides, requiring Gerrard to occupy a deeper role when necessary.

4-3-3
Reina
Johnson Skrtel Coates Enrique
Spearing Henderson
Gerrard
Suarez           Maxi 
Carroll

So Luis would have a free-roam type of role, think David Silva but with more of a striker's mentality. The reason I'd like to see Suarez play a bit more wide is because some of his best plays in a Red shirt have come from wide positions. When he receives the ball on the touchline, he has more time and space to work with, and he's pulled some brilliant moves out there.

And Henderson in my opinion is only good playing in a deep CM position, so he'd come back in to the team for this one. He's not really good as a No. 10 and he sure as heck ain't a RM! But I think he has potential as a regista.

Overall

Personally, I think Suarez and Carroll should be starting every game, with Gerrard given the license to attack (though not many of you will agree with Andy). I don't think it's a case of each of them plays better with the other or anything, but our attack is better with 2 strikers and Gerrard attacking. I'm sick of Andy having 2-3 decent games, then getting dropped. Just play him for the rest of the season.

I see no reason why Coates shouldn't play, with all due respect to Carragher. The kid was expensive for a young defender, and he's shown a lot of promise. Play him. What do we have to really lose? Also, start playing guys like Sterling and Shelvey some more. Raheem looked brilliant coming on, so I'd like to see start getting consistent 30-minute run-outs. With Shelvey, we simply need to see more of him.

I like Maxi and Kuyt a lot, but they're goners in the summer, I'm afraid. So you can probably exclude them from my lists, even though Maxi in particular should have been featuring more this season. Maxi = movement, movement, movement.

One thing we definitely need to work on - besides set pieces - is pressing higher up the pitch. We seem to invite teams to attack by giving them too much space to work with. I'm a firm believer in defending from the front, and we definitely didn't do that against Wigan. That's one thing that defo needs to be worked on.

Oh, and obviously, I'm not a great football mind! (bad one in fact  ) So I'd like to see everyone's thoughts 

Reina
Flanagan* - Skrtel - Coates* - Enrique**
Spearing - Shelvey
Suarez - Gerrard - Downing***
Carroll

* rotate with Agger/Johnson/Kelly depending on fitness
** give Robinson a game or two if Enrique needs a rest
***Sterling deserves some games, but I don't think he needs to be playing in such a poor Liverpool team at the moment (well one lacking confidence)

This is the team/formation I'd like to see for the rest of the season 4231 or maybe 433 if Gerrard drops back and Suarez/Downing push on. I think we need to blood in some of the younger players hence Flanagan/Coates/Shelvey and Robinson/Sterling to help bring them on a bit for next season.

Junior Red,
you make some valid points there,but I have to disagree about the Sterling quote. All the more reason he should play,he is young and has a point to prove.
Youngsters like him have no fear,he has pace in abundance and could just be what we need at the moment,after all things can't get much worse at the moment.
With the pressure KK is under at the moment,I dont think he has a lot to lose by blooding a few of the youngsters now.

Good opening post

This is just my opinion and im sure so many of you will be against it. For the rest for the season ill be happy if players like Suarez, Gerrard, Agger, Skrtel, Enrique, Johnson only played the odd game. So many of you criticised Kenny for playing Hendo but i might know the point of it.
I reckon we should just play players such as Hendo, Adam, Carroll, Downing. The as everyone can agree underperformed players. Hopefully they can improve and get goals and assists instead of wondering if they can do that next season. Almost like a trial. The the rest of the positions i would play the young ones.
So the team might look like this
                        Reina
Flanagan    Kelly    Coates   Robinson
  Henderson   Shelvey    Adam
      Sterling     Carroll      Downing
Bench: Youngsters
I would love to see this.
   
 

Big Andy, so basically you're punishing the good players by not giving them games? You think players like Gerrard and Suarez will be happy not playing? If you want to play youngsters, then it should be at the cost of the players that underperform. I'm not sure what you expect from this, but it won't be good. They're not going to play better with worse and inexperienced players. Put those underperforming players on the bench for those youngsters, let them know their positions are at risk, and see how they react to that.

The way forward is simple - buy quality players and not vastly overpriced average players. How much was Van Der Vaart again when Woy turned down the chance to sign him from Madrid? How much was Sneijder when we sold Xabi Alonso to Madrid and could have asked for Sneijder in part exchange?

A top manager's greatest strength is his eye for quality players. If he has that he has a chance of winning things, even if like Ferguson he has obvious tactical deficiencies at the very highest level.

The way forward is simple - buy quality players and not vastly overpriced average players. How much was Van Der Vaart again when Woy turned down the chance to sign him from Madrid? How much was Sneijder when we sold Xabi Alonso to Madrid and could have asked for Sneijder in part exchange?

A top manager's greatest strength is his eye for quality players. If he has that he has a chance of winning things, even if like Ferguson he has obvious tactical deficiencies at the very highest level.

Did you even take the time to read the opening post? We're talking about the rest of this season.

Put those underperforming players on the bench for those youngsters, let them know their positions are at risk, and see how they react to that.

Thats a start.

Did you even take the time to read the opening post? We're talking about the rest of this season.

The rest of the league season is just about pride now. We've seen more than enough from the first team players this season to know what needs to be done in the summer. Last year Flanagan, Shelvey, Maxi etc.. did very well in the run in yet have hardly had a kick this year. So it's hard to know even if they play now whether it makes any difference to the beginning of next season. 

As for the FA Cup, well it's more than likely Kenny will stick to the main team he has played all year.

I see Andy Carroll is leading everyones attack... 47 Apperances and 8 Goals  1 goal every 6 games . We are going backwards not forwards

I see Andy Carroll is leading everyones attack... 47 Apperances and 8 Goals  1 goal every 6 games . We are going backwards not forwards

Huntelaar   (or to quote Racer   Hunter La) one goal every game.


Only field those players who want to play for the shirt and the club that is LFC.

Huntelaar   (or to quote Racer   Hunter La) one goal every game.


Only field those players who want to play for the shirt and the club that is LFC.

Hot property probally wanting European football (Real European footbal)

Big Andy, so basically you're punishing the good players by not giving them games? You think players like Gerrard and Suarez will be happy not playing? If you want to play youngsters, then it should be at the cost of the players that underperform. I'm not sure what you expect from this, but it won't be good. They're not going to play better with worse and inexperienced players. Put those underperforming players on the bench for those youngsters, let them know their positions are at risk, and see how they react to that.

Yer Bier i know where you are getting at. What i meant is that we should play our best players but not every game. We do not want any injuries espically with the FA cup coming up. Thats what i also forgot, the FA cup is coming up and we might as well rest our best team before that. So for the team i put up thats the team i would put up before the FA cup tie. But i still stand by my thought of playing mostly young and and players that need to prove themselves before next year. Of cource though the players such as the calibre of Suarez will play some games.

Carroll has to start every game and put Henderson CM.

What I want to see:
                               Reina
 Kelly         Coates              Skrtel        Enrique
                 Henderson        Gerrard
 Downing                                          Sterling
                  Suarez         Carroll.



What I think I'll see:
                                Reina
 Johnson     Carragher         Skrtel          Enrique
                        Gerrard         Spearing
  Henderson                                             Downing
                        Suarez          Carroll.

I'd start Carroll every game too.  Downing on the left. Johnson or Suarez on the right. And keep it simple, alot of crosses into the box. We've changed our forward line too much, at some point we need to stick to something and give it a real chance, so everybody can get used to it and form a better understanding. Coates needs to start too, see how fast he progresses by getting regular gametime. And Shelvey deserves a chance to prove himself, even if it's as a regular sub.

I wouldn't play Downing again for us.  Don't want him to be there next season so there is little point in him being selected.  Not being a knee jerker either - just think he is a total waste of a shirt - he's a hindrance to Enrique and he's F***ing useless at crossing, taking a corner, trapping a ball, tackling, going past a player.

I'd rather see Bellamy, Shelvey, Henderson, Kuyt, Robinson, Johnson, Eccleston, Sterling ahead of him.

Plus we have to play two strikers now.  Without Lucas and Agger we are going to have to face facts in that we simply aren't going to keep many clean sheets now.  May as well just go for scoring one more than the opposition if possible - can't see us winning many 1-0.

Sometimes it is difficult to be a Liverpool fan. We are weighed down by our illustrious history; we are the most successful English team in European football of all time. Our heritage demands success; failure is unacceptable at Liverpool Football Club.

It is a source of huge embarrassment to us that we have failed to win the Premier League. When we last lifted the title in 1990 who would have thought that would have been our last championship for over 20 years? We are Liverpool Football Club. ‘The league is our bread and butter’: wherever you go at Liverpool the Spirit of Shankly is shouting out at you.

Shankly, Paisley, Fagan, Dalglish transformed Liverpool into a footballing superpower. Anfield was a ‘Bastion of invincibility’. But times change; and we have spent too long looking back at past glories. The reason that Benitez is mentioned in the same breath as our four legendary managers is because his achievements in Istanbul put us back on the map, albeit briefly.

Winning our fifth European Cup against all the odds attracted a new breed of supporter; despite not winning the Premier League, or even coming close to it (until 08/09) Liverpool fans finally had something to shout about in the midst of Mancunian (well, maybe Essex!) voices. It raised expectations, and a further European Cup final in 2007 sent them through the roof.

The harsh truth is though that Benitez over achieved with Liverpool. When you look at it rationally it is difficult to understand how we won the CL in 2005. Dudek, Biscan, Le Tallec, Traore, Mellor, Smicer, Baros are all legends of that CL run; something happened in 2005 that transformed ordinary players into the best in Europe. Perhaps it was Shankly looking down on us: but that is taking nothing away from the tactical genius of Benitez or the impact of Steven Gerrard.

Winning the CL in 2005 changed the game for Benitez. The signings of Reina, Johnson, Agger, Skrtel, Alonso, Torres and Mascherano gave us a first XI that was the best in the league. Had Dudek not made that miraculous save in Istanbul then it may well have been very different. Gerrard would probably have left the club; and progress under Benitez may have been less evident.

That is why football is a game of details. Benitez used to deal in two currencies: detail and fact. And he was spot on. Football comes down to the tiniest details: despite the vast gap in financial muscle the Premier League is unique in the fact that every game is competitive. The reason that United, City and Chelsea have had such success is purely economic. They have spent more money than any other side.

The elephant in the room is Wegner, who whilst attracts his critics, is probably the best manager the Premier League has ever seen. He can be arrogant, irritating, and condescending: but to do what he has done at Arsenal; whilst making money is a sensational achievement. He is a pioneer: he changed the landscape of football in this country.

‘Moneyball’

So what does this mean about the Liverpool of today? Anybody that has seen the film ‘Moneyball’ will understand a little bit about what FSG are trying to achieve. There is a real misconception in the Liverpool fan base about what constitutes a ‘good’ signing. Buying players is the most unpredictable element to football: fact.

The model that Liverpool is currently using deals in facts. When we sign a player it is based on solid research and statistical data of what each player can contribute. It isn’t about individual genius; it is about the sum of all parts.

So far, it doesn’t look like it is working. I think everybody will accept that given our current league form. But we have to look beyond that, what we are trying to do is change the way football works.

John.W.Henry recognised early on when he acquired the Red Sox that he couldn’t compete financially with the Yankees. But, somehow he found a way to match them, and to beat them. He did that not by following the norm, but by doing something new. Henry is an innovator: and innovation will always mean that failure is a risk, but failure makes success possible.

Looking forwards, not backwards

That is why it is now time to stop looking back at past glories for Liverpool. If we want to succeed in the future, we cannot let our past dictate us. The achievements of Shankly and Paisley will forever be part of our history and our heritage, but they cannot continue to ‘haunt’ us.

I said at the beginning of this piece that the weight of expectation makes being a Liverpool supporter difficult at times. Each loss is greeted with despair. If it is difficult for supporters, imagine being a Liverpool player? The burden of expectation means that instead of trying something difficult, they will take the easy option. Fear of failure hangs over everyone at Liverpool FC.

We have a unique culture at Liverpool: but Henry, Comolli and Dalglish are all trying to change the way we do things to give us a better future. Under Benitez we had a taste: but sustainability was always going to be difficult given our resources v’s our rivals.

If we can keep faith in this regime the rewards could be amazing. But it will mean we have to change our attitudes as supporters. It will mean we have to stand tall ‘in the wind and rain’.

If this experiment does fail; it is better to have failed and tried than to have not have tried at all. We will never have the resources of a City; but if UEFA stick to Financial Fair Play we do stand a chance.

I honestly believe in the FSG vision: the methods they use aren’t always obvious, but they all have a reason. If we want to succeed in the future, we cannot be afraid of failure now. We have a past we can be proud of, but no longer can we let it affect our future.

I wouldn't play Downing again for us.  Don't want him to be there next season so there is little point in him being selected.  Not being a knee jerker either - just think he is a total waste of a shirt - he's a hindrance to Enrique and he's f**king useless at crossing, taking a corner, trapping a ball, tackling, going past a player.

I'd rather see Bellamy, Shelvey, Henderson, Kuyt, Robinson, Johnson, Eccleston, Sterling ahead of him.

Plus we have to play two strikers now.  Without Lucas and Agger we are going to have to face facts in that we simply aren't going to keep many clean sheets now.  May as well just go for scoring one more than the opposition if possible - can't see us winning many 1-0.

I'm guessing you want to play like that with trying to win those games in mind? Ofcourse I'd like to win too, but it's not the main priority for me the rest of this season. Those 8 EPL games left are relatively risk free, there's not much to gain. I'd like us to play how we're planning to play next season, and give some players a chance to get used to and prove themselfs in those positions. Also having in mind that with Euro 2012 and the Olympics this summer our preparation won't be ideal.

It's really hard with sponsorship deals etc to say we should play this player and that player from now on in. Don't forget these players sell shirts, they have image rights tied up with the club. My point is the club has a lot of reasons for what they do more than just 'he's young and scouse get him on'. I do believe the way forward is the Barcelona approach. That's why Rafa got Borrell and revamped the youth. It will take time though. We have Lucas, Agger, Reina, Gerrard, Skertl, Johnson, Kelly, Enrique, Suarez, Kuyt, Bellamy and in my opinion Maxi. These are good enough anyday of the week and are proven. The oldest have at least two more good seasons in them. We must keep these and get another couple of top draw proven players and start bringing the youth in. SHelvey, Robinson, FLanagan, Coates, Sterling ........ These look good enough for us. I think that Adam, Downing, Carroll, Henderson and Spearing need to prove their worth. Of these I can see Spearing and Henderson remaining to be honest.

For this season, Play around with the players and formations. try to evaluate capacitites in different positions. experiment and determine the deficiencies in the team and of course WIN the FA CUP.