Jordan Henderson (Liverpool -> Al-Ettifaq (5 months) -> Ajax)

The strangest myth of the lot is the whole "Henderson only passes backwards". Well, it's a nonsense which only serves to reinforce agendas. Here's the actual stats for % of forward passes this season:

Matic 68%
Henderson 67%
Fernandinho 66%
Dembele 64%
Kante 62%

Consistency is a massive issue with him and it always has been.

For every ok or good performance he's given you can equally name a bad one. That isn't the mark of a top player.

That is why I would rather play him against Huddersfield than Napoli.
Against Huddersfield, if he is having a stinker it is likely there is an opportunity to change things before it is too late, I can't say the same for the likes of Napoli.

The strangest myth of the lot is the whole "Henderson only passes backwards". Well, it's a nonsense which only serves to reinforce agendas. Here's the actual stats for % of forward passes this season:

Matic 68%
Henderson 67%
Fernandinho 66%
Dembele 64%
Kante 62%

What are the average distances of those passes?
Additionally, what is the cut off between a side pass and a forward pass on these stats?
This is just data unless you can add more context to make it information.

None of our incumbent midfielders give 8/10s every week, not Milner, not Gini, Not Ox and not Henderson. They are all 7/10 type players and by and large that's what you get from them. Milner has raised his own bar to some extent over the past 7-8 months and absolutely deserves his place in the starting line-up but lets not suddenly pretend Ox and Gini have been world beaters because they really haven't been and when they've had poor games they have often gone under the radar whilst this thread is busy as anything with criticism for Henderson (for putting in a similar performance).

I don't think he wins them all that often, can't say I know the stats regards MOTM votes but I daresay he has landed a few along the way. You're right I think Gini did get the votes in here a bit earlier in the season but I couldn't tell you who it was against. 

But I do know he started in the side (along with Milner) that whipped Porto 5-0 (Gini also played in this game), beat City 3-0 (with Ox) and then Porto 5-2 (with Ox) in the Champions League so it's not all that hard to see why the manager retains faith in the lad.

I disagree mate.

I see Milner, gini and Ox giving 7-8 performances quite regularly but I can't say the same for henderson. Henderson performs at a 5 or 6 for me most weeks and then occasionally gets a 7. Very, very rarely would I give him an 8 and I don't think I've ever seen him produce a 9.

Ginis best performance for us this season was probably when he was in the 6 position against Brighton at home where they posed no threat what so ever.  He was the best player on the pitch so if he can do it in a game like that then why can't henderson?

Southgate on Henderson
“Jordan is a player that has been underestimated for a long time. I watched him a lot at Sunderland as a young player. He has the total trust of his manager at club level. He’s an outstanding person with outstanding leadership qualities.”
“His positional understanding, his reading of danger, you can see he’s seeing really clear pictures with the ball. A couple of his through balls the other night were exceptional. He’s playing at the top of his game, we’re very fortunate to have him.”

Henderson has become such a boring player and his thread even more so. It's amazing how a player that is hardly spectacular, but most definitely not awful either, can attract so many radical opinions. He's a good player, most of the time at least OK, sometimes bad. We've had plenty of those in the past, some who are undeservedly praised as if they were some sort of genius - Alvaro Arbeloa is a good example, if you like - while others, like Henderson, are made out to be much worse than they actually are. It mostly seems to depend on which time they were signed (as football is a team sport, how the club is doing as a whole makes a huge difference on how individual players are perceived) or the stage of their careers (players that take a while to settle, like Lucas or Hendo, never completely shrug off their early detractors). We're soon to overgrow Henderson though, like we did with, I don't know, Danny Murphy. More than happy to have him in the squad, can't see him being a very influential player in the coming seasons though. The hysteria from both sides is boring as f**k.

Jordan Henderson, in the English Premier League, has scored two goals this season, creating 35 chances and one assist. Jordan Henderson has completed 1996 passes this season with a pass accuracy of 83%, of which 80% were forward passes

Henderson has become such a boring player and his thread even more so. It's amazing how a player that is hardly spectacular, but most definitely not awful either, can attract so many radical opinions. He's a good player, most of the time at least OK, sometimes bad. We've had plenty of those in the past, some who are undeservedly praised as if they were some sort of genius - Alvaro Arbeloa is a good example, if you like - while others, like Henderson, are made out to be much worse than they actually are. It mostly seems to depend on which time they were signed (as football is a team sport, that makes a huge difference on how individual players are perceived) or the stage of their careers (players that take a while to settle, like Lucas, never completely shrug off their early detractors). We're soon to overgrow Henderson though, like we did with, I don't know, Danny Murphy. More than happy to have him in the squad, can't see him being a very influential player in the coming seasons though. The hysteria from both sides is boring as f**k.

Spot on really, I think a lot of the criticism comes in response from over hype. Honestly speaking though, my first choice midfield right now is Milner, Keita and Gini.

Jordan Henderson, in the English Premier League, has scored two goals this season, creating 35 chances and one assist. Jordan Henderson has completed 1996 passes this season with a pass accuracy of 83%, of which 80% were forward passes

I didn't know Hendo got 2 goals and an assist this season, which games were they?

I didn't know Hendo got 2 goals and an assist this season, which games were they?

fifa 19

Is it to be that hendo is scapegoat 2018 19 season?

Yep.
It's not his job to be creative.
It's his job to recycle, cover the CB's and the FB's when they attack, create space for others, get the ball wide and keep possession by dictating and stretching play by drawing opponents onto him, and initiate the press when the opponents are in a particular area.

The creativity in the team comes from the midfielder who is furthest up, the 2 fullbacks and the 2/3 forwards.
I say 2/3 forwards because Klopp a few weeks ago insisted that Mane is not actually a forward, he is a very attacking midfielder.
I was a bit surprised by this until I started paying more attention to his positioning, then the penny dropped.

He very rarely draws players on he normally pings the ball to someone as soon as an oppo player looks at him.

Lucas could draw players on, Gini does it now. They can both shield and turn with the ball, Hendo can't. He can run a lot, chase players around the park, point a lot, ping the odd good pass, play lots of average passes and a few hand grenade passes to put our players in trouble.

In summary nice lad, works hard, runs a lot, plenty of effort, lacks skill. Plays the very odd blinder,  more usually average and sometimes poor.

Most of them are mate but it suggests there is something worth discussing, what is the best role for Henderson.
No ones saying bin him off as he is sh*te.

Bin him off, he’s sh*te.

Another annoying line that comes up so often on here. Very boring.

There is a reason why we've finished fourth in consecutive seasons you know.

What if we finish 4th again this season. Are you going to say it again? And again? And again?

What about when we finished 7th  with Rodgers? Did you say to people that they think they know better than Brendan because they didn't rate joe Allen or benteke?

What about when we finished 8th with Kenny. I bet you used to say 'so do you think you know better than THE KING' when people were slating Charlie Adam and Stewart Downing, didn't you?

Klopp is an amazing manager who has done wonders here. The huge strides we have made under his short tenure have been quite remarkable but we aren't the finished article just yet. There are one or two pieces of the jig saw left to complete and in my opinion taking henderson out of the starting 11 is one of them.

So you respond with a bunch of bluster that means absolutely nothing with regards to what I asked. Got it.

Seriously, have you guys never questioned why a player was bought, sold , dropped or selected? If you have, would that not put you at our level?

And aren't fan's more or less watching it from a scout POV? Football isn't exactly difficult game to understand, is it? You don't need some degree to know the likes of, Isco and Messi are world class dribblers who are masters of playing between the lines, Charlie Adam or Ozil would struggle under Klopp, or Firmino unable to play wing back etc etc.

However, I am 100% sure managing is a whole different ball game and something we non professional are capable of doing off the bat, it would take years and years to get to a fraction of where Klopp is at.

A poor league that has spawned many, many, many world class players. And remind me, how many caps does Azpilicueta, Carrick, Fowler etc have? I am sure there are many exceptional/world class players that are hardly capped by their national teams. Just because you are an exceptional/world class player, doesn't mean there aren't any others ahead of you.

We are not ignoring anything, we understand Klopp rates him, but we are humans and have opinions, we see what we see and discuss. Is it so wrong to have an opinion and talk about it? Yeah, there are some that go OTT, but then there are some who want to discuss the reasons why, but only to get attacked, accussed of hating or knowing more than the manager etc, very SJW like if you ask me.

Not sure if you are directing that at me personally (since you quoted me) but I’m being completely serious. Jürgen has many times gushed about his love for Henderson. Yes we all rate some players, don’t rate others and debate the merits of them playing (or not playing) but Jürgen has enough skins in the game (with LFC alone) at this point that I’d be willing to bet he had an idea why he wants Hendo in midfield and the fact that he is constantly played there means that Jürgen doesn’t see any reason to put him on the bench. At that point, regardless of what you or I think, it’s a pretty moot argument.

So you respond with a bunch of bluster that means absolutely nothing with regards to what I asked. Got it.

You asked me if I think I know better than klopp, something which henderson supporters quite often do on this forum.

My post was relevant to what you asked.

1. There is a reason we have finished fourth in consecutive seasons. Our players haven't been good enough to win the league.

2. Does your question relate to every football manager then or just Jürgen Klopp? 

Rafa had several players who I didn't rate either. So did Rodgers. So did Kenny. I like all three of them. None of them won the league. So what exactly is your point?

It's quite simple. Klopp is doing a great job but to go from fourth to first we need to upgrade on a few players. Henderson is one of them. He is the only weak link in our current starting 11 actually.

You asked me if I think I know better than klopp, something which henderson supporters quite often do on this forum.

My post was relevant to what you asked.

1. There is a reason we have finished fourth in consecutive seasons. Our players haven't been good enough to win the league.

2. Does your question relate to every football manager then or just Jürgen Klopp? 

Rafa had several players who I didn't rate either. So did Rodgers. So did Kenny. I like all three of them. None of them won the league. So what exactly is your point?

It's quite simple. Klopp is doing a great job but to go from fourth to first we need to upgrade on a few players. Henderson is one of them. He is the only weak link in our current starting 11 actually.

Weak link? Nah. If he was, Klopp would replace him, just like he did our LB, RB, CB, Wingers, GK...should I go on?

Klopp has shown that he'll replace anyone if he feels an upgrade is necessary or available. And yet he's not replaced Hendo. I wonder why that could be? Maybe it's because Henderson does EXACTLY what Klopp asks of him and does it well enough that Klopp doesn't feel the need to replace him. I used to not rate Henderson at all and I'd have a pop at him just like a lot of the folks on here, but as I've come to appreciate his contributions, I've realized that most folks that don't rate him, do so for personal (non-objective) reasons.

Weak link? Nah. If he was, Klopp would replace him, just like he did our LB, RB, CB, Wingers, GK...should I go on?

Klopp has shown that he'll replace anyone if he feels an upgrade is necessary or available. And yet he's not replaced Hendo. I wonder why that could be? Maybe it's because Henderson does EXACTLY what Klopp asks of him and does it well enough that Klopp doesn't feel the need to replace him. I used to not rate Henderson at all and I'd have a pop at him just like a lot of the folks on here, but as I've come to appreciate his contributions, I've realized that most folks that don't rate him, do so for personal (non-objective) reasons.

We're not Man City or Chelsea though. We can't go out in one transfer window and upgrade every single player we have. We don't have the money to do that.

Other positions were considered more of a priority and klopp had no other choice but to bring in certain players first.

Now we're finally getting round to midfield. It's no coincidence that Jürgen spent 100m on bringing two centre mids in. Do you think he signed them to sit on our bench or something? Get real will you.

As soon as Keita and Fabinho are up to speed they will be introduced to the team more and more just like Robbo was and just like ox was and we should be seeing a lot less of henderson and rightly so. It's time to take the step and go to the next level now. Instead of challenging for top four and being finalists, let's finish top and F***ing win something.
 

Not sure if you are directing that at me personally (since you quoted me) but I’m being completely serious. Jürgen has many times gushed about his love for Henderson. Yes we all rate some players, don’t rate others and debate the merits of them playing (or not playing) but Jürgen has enough skins in the game (with LFC alone) at this point that I’d be willing to bet he had an idea why he wants Hendo in midfield and the fact that he is constantly played there means that Jürgen doesn’t see any reason to put him on the bench. At that point, regardless of what you or I think, it’s a pretty moot argument.

The point isn't about Klopp liking Henderson and playing him regularly, the point of the discussion is the opinion of us fans debating whether Hendo had a good game or not, why he is or isn't right for the role or what he can or can not offer etc etc.

I mean, am I wrong for disliking TLJ because I am neither a writer or a director? Was TLJ actually a flawless masterpiece and I didn't understand it because I am not a profession in that craft?

I actually do agree with HamannsTheMan and believe Hendo is the weak link (when played as the 6) in our strongest first 11, but by no means do I think he is sh*t or a detriment to our team, he does the job good enough, but I feel we have better players that can take us to the next level in, Wijnaldum, Fabinho and possibly Keita.

As soon as Keita and Fabinho are up to speed they will be introduced to the team more and more just like Robbo was and just like ox was and we should be seeing a lot less of henderson and rightly so. It's time to take the step and go to the next level now. Instead of challenging for top four and being finalists, let's finish top and f**king win something.

I hope we do see less of Hendo as our 6, but Klopp does like him and probably still considers him as an important first team player, and fair enough if he does, Hendo hasn't actually let him down, so I can understand the trust.

I really do think we have the midfielders (including Henderson!) that would rival/surpass that of Chelsea and City, but the question is, will Klopp be able to find that combination ?

Anyway, I don't really want to post in the Hendo thread for a while, even if he has a bad game, I'm out.

I hope we do see less of Hendo as our 6, but Klopp does like him and probably still considers him as an important first team player, and fair enough if he does, Hendo hasn't actually let him down, so I can understand the trust.

I really do think we have the midfielders (including Henderson!) that would rival/surpass that of Chelsea and City, but the question is, will Klopp be able to find that combination ?

Anyway, I don't really want to post in the Hendo thread for a while, even if he has a bad game, I'm out.

Henderson can be a good squad player for us.

We can play him in the games with less risk to give our other midfielders a breather, games like Cardiff at home etc. He can also be used when our midfield are tired mid/late game and we need to inject some energy then by all means throw him on.

He can still play a big role in this squad but in my opinion he shouldn't be in our starting 11 for our biggest games (like Chelsea on Saturday) and personally I'd take the captaincy off him now too and hand it to somebody who will always be in the starting 11 no matter what and has more of a presence about him and that is Mr Virgil Van Dijk.

We're not Man City or Chelsea though. We can't go out in one transfer window and upgrade every single player we have. We don't have the money to do that.

Other positions were considered more of a priority and klopp had no other choice but to bring in certain players first.

Now we're finally getting round to midfield. It's no coincidence that Jürgen spent 100m on bringing two centre mids in. Do you think he signed them to sit on our bench or something? Get real will you.

As soon as Keita and Fabinho are up to speed they will be introduced to the team more and more just like Robbo was and just like ox was and we should be seeing a lot less of henderson and rightly so. It's time to take the step and go to the next level now. Instead of challenging for top four and being finalists, let's finish top and f**king win something.
 

I can't really debate anymore with you, You pretty much just nitpick what you want to respond to so that it fits your thought process. Fair enough.

You are right, we aren't Man City or Chelsea...we spend our money very wisely. And neither of them have broken the world record fees for a keeper or CB, we have.

This notion that Klopp couldn't upgrade on Henderson is hogwash. Quite silly of you to search for excuses for why he hasn't upgraded on what some of you are calling the weakest link in our starting 11.

I can't really debate anymore with you, You pretty much just nitpick what you want to respond to so that it fits your thought process. Fair enough.

You are right, we aren't Man City or Chelsea...we spend our money very wisely. And neither of them have broken the world record fees for a keeper or CB, we have.

This notion that Klopp couldn't upgrade on Henderson is hogwash. Quite silly of you to search for excuses for why he hasn't upgraded on what some of you are calling the weakest link in our starting 11.

Yes, we broke records signing a cb and a gk after breaking other records for selling one of our players first. I'm not sure why that's relevant to what we're talking about.

He is the weakest link of our CURRENT 11. Spot the key word. I've tried to make it stand out for you.

You have literally just quoted me where i clearly say that other positions were considered a priorty first.

What exactly did you expect klopp to do? Come in straight away and spend 300m and sign 10 players at once?

He has had to upgrade his team bit by bit and in order of what was most important.

It's like talking to a brick wall on here. I've no idea why that is so difficult to understand.