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      Jordan Henderson Player Thread

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      Danzel
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5220 : Sep 19, 2017 10:49:33 pm »
      No he should be patrolling just ahead of the CB's in case the ball is knocked down and besides which DM plays that far up the pitch when defending?

      Second goal he is out of position of the huge area in front of our CB's he should be patrolling.

      While I agree with you for the first goal, I think for the second Grujic is our #6 in that situation. Here's our midfield three:



      It might not have been a great decision to rotate there, given he was on a yellow already, but Henderson is clearly filling the left midfielder position and Grujic took over the #6 position. He might be a yard too high, but he still gets close to Slimani and doesn't want to make the foul in fear of getting sent off. Don't think you can blame Henderson for that one. I also think that Gomez (again) is too deep there.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5221 : Sep 19, 2017 10:55:41 pm »
      While I agree with you for the first goal, I think for the second Grujic is our #6 in that situation. Here's our midfield three:



      It might not have been a great decision to rotate there, given he was on a yellow already, but Henderson is clearly filling the left midfielder position and Grujic took over the #6 position. He might be a yard too high, but he still gets close to Slimani and doesn't want to make the foul in fear of getting sent off. Don't think you can blame Henderson for that one. I also think that Gomez (again) is too deep there.

      Maybe but shows the folly of relying Grujic who has hardly played a first game never mind as the No 6.

      What exactly is Henderson doing in that position, I noticed he hardly bust a gut to get back either.

      Good job I have not mentioned his passing   :D

      Magillionare
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5222 : Sep 19, 2017 10:57:56 pm »
      No he should be patrolling just ahead of the CB's in case the ball is knocked down and besides which DM plays that far up the pitch when defending?

      Second goal he is out of position of the huge area in front of our CB's he should be patrolling.

      He has been better than this mate, last season but this season not sure if it's the injuries but he has simply been shocking.



      It's just not his job to be there at all because there never should have been a scenario where he should be there. Joe Gomez made the error which put everyone out of position, including Henderson. He's so, so clearly the one at fault for the goal. Seriously, watch that reply and tell me Henderson should have been been where you say, because if you do, you're showing you know zero absolutely zero.

      F***ing witch hunt this, worse than when it was Lucas a few years ago.

      Here's the highlights

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO8Lfk0zh4Q

      Freezes at 3:10. Go on, try and say he should have 'read' that Gomez was going to play 3 men onside within 3 seconds. Jesus f**king Christ this is like coaching my u-10s team on basic positioning. Klopp said ‘With the first goal we don’t push up together… I’ve said it 1,000 times.’ - Clearly he's saying Joe Gomez should have pushed out WITH THE REST OF THE TEAM, including the DM who was doing exactly what the manager wants. He can't read minds, including Gomez's which went wandering twice in 5 seconds to play people onside who should have been off not once, but twice... What do you want Hendo to do?

      Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/19/jurgen-klopp-slams-liverpool-defence-after-leicester-city-defeat-6940790/#ixzz4tAH1r27f

      Second goal (and I can't believe I'm having to explain this to adults). Throw in from the left. If the ball is on the left, you press over to the left, formations don't work like they are laid out on TV, the whole team presses over to where the action is while defending. Henderson is on a man, the ball is throw over his head, Robertson can't deal with his man and Marko doesn't make the tackle... Literally nothing Henderson can do unless you want him to mark 3 men at once.

      Lads, you're f**king embarrassing yourselves. I am all for saying when he's not been great, I am all for saying when he's fu**ed up... But this shoehorning business of trying to weasel in how things are his fault is scumbag territory. Away and f**k yourselves, pathetic.
      « Last Edit: Sep 19, 2017 11:03:13 pm by Magillionare »
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5223 : Sep 19, 2017 11:02:08 pm »
      While I agree with you for the first goal, I think for the second Grujic is our #6 in that situation. Here's our midfield three:



      It might not have been a great decision to rotate there, given he was on a yellow already, but Henderson is clearly filling the left midfielder position and Grujic took over the #6 position. He might be a yard too high, but he still gets close to Slimani and doesn't want to make the foul in fear of getting sent off. Don't think you can blame Henderson for that one. I also think that Gomez (again) is too deep there.

      I don't think I can be bothered to re-watch the match, but was it necessary for Hendo to fill the left midfield area forcing Grujic into the #6 area? Would a specialist think differently and hold his position and be deeper instead of moving into that vacated area? Looks to be 2 vs 3 us (without Hendo) on the left, surely that is enough? And having your specialist sitting deeper instead of higher up in no mans land ish would surely be a better decision?
      Danzel
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5224 : Sep 19, 2017 11:14:12 pm »
      I don't think I can be bothered to re-watch the match, but was it necessary for Hendo to fill the left midfield area forcing Grujic into the #6 area? Would a specialist think differently and hold his position and be deeper instead of moving into that vacated area? Looks to be 2 vs 3 us (without Hendo) on the left, surely that is enough? And having your specialist sitting deeper instead of higher up in no mans land ish would surely be a better decision?

      I don't have the full match, only the highlights like Mags has posted, so I don't know why he's on the left.

      Read Mags' explanation though, it's spot on. The way our midfield works, the players rotate and constantly fill in each other's positions. Wether Henderson is a specialist #6 or not doesn't matter there, he's doing what he should be doing in our midfield, in our system. A specialist #6 would probably have stayed in his position in the situation that happened before the throw in and let the midfielder in front of him deal with it, but we don't play one, so we shouldn't think that way.

      Maybe but shows the folly of relying Grujic who has hardly played a first game never mind as the No 6.

      What exactly is Henderson doing in that position, I noticed he hardly bust a gut to get back either.

      If in the previous situation Henderson was dragged out wide to the left midfield position, the midfielders rotate and take over the #6 and the other #8, which our players do perfectly in that situation. We concede the throw in, Henderson stays there (easier than running all the way back to his position and making Grujic go to his). The throw in came from quite deep, so it looks like he's high up the pitch, but he isn't. The throw in goes over his head and then everything else happens. The only thing that you can say is that he "didn't bust a gut" to get near the ball, but there's no way you can blame him for the second goal. Grujic has to set his foot there and try to make a small foul not resulting in a second yellow and Gomez should be higher up the pitch and closer to Slimani.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5225 : Sep 19, 2017 11:19:59 pm »
      I don't have the full match, only the highlights like Mags has posted, so I don't know why he's on the left.

      Read Mags' explanation though, it's spot on. The way our midfield works, the players rotate and constantly fill in each other's positions. Wether Henderson is a specialist #6 or not doesn't matter there, he's doing what he should be doing in our midfield, in our system. A specialist #6 would probably have stayed in his position in the situation that happened before the throw in and let the midfielder in front of him deal with it, but we don't play one, so we shouldn't think that way.


      Yeah, I agree and see it, we rotate more often with Hendo there. Last season when Lucas played in the #6 role, he wasn't dragged away from the central area often, and rarely rotated with the #8's, hence us looking more solidified in the middle and defence imo.

      Klopp really needs to consider looking into a specialist (and cb) in January imo.

      On a side note, I thought his distribution was excellent today, especially in the first half!!
      « Last Edit: Sep 19, 2017 11:25:11 pm by PurpleMonkey »
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5226 : Sep 19, 2017 11:33:51 pm »
      It's just not his job to be there at all because there never should have been a scenario where he should be there. Joe Gomez made the error which put everyone out of position, including Henderson. He's so, so clearly the one at fault for the goal. Seriously, watch that reply and tell me Henderson should have been been where you say, because if you do, you're showing you know zero absolutely zero.

      F***ing witch hunt this, worse than when it was Lucas a few years ago.

      Here's the highlights

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO8Lfk0zh4Q

      Freezes at 3:10. Go on, try and say he should have 'read' that Gomez was going to play 3 men onside within 3 seconds. Jesus f**king Christ this is like coaching my u-10s team on basic positioning. Klopp said ‘With the first goal we don’t push up together… I’ve said it 1,000 times.’ - Clearly he's saying Joe Gomez should have pushed out WITH THE REST OF THE TEAM, including the DM who was doing exactly what the manager wants. He can't read minds, including Gomez's which went wandering twice in 5 seconds to play people onside who should have been off not once, but twice... What do you want Hendo to do?

      Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/19/jurgen-klopp-slams-liverpool-defence-after-leicester-city-defeat-6940790/#ixzz4tAH1r27f

      Second goal (and I can't believe I'm having to explain this to adults). Throw in from the left. If the ball is on the left, you press over to the left, formations don't work like they are laid out on TV, the whole team presses over to where the action is while defending. Henderson is on a man, the ball is throw over his head, Robertson can't deal with his man and Marko doesn't make the tackle... Literally nothing Henderson can do unless you want him to mark 3 men at once.

      Lads, you're f**king embarrassing yourselves. I am all for saying when he's not been great, I am all for saying when he's fu**ed up... But this shoehorning business of trying to weasel in how things are his fault is scumbag territory. Away and f**k yourselves, pathetic.


      As someone who is often critical of Jordan I thought he played well tonight, actually gave him MotM. Was questioned on that a couple of times and I admit I had to second guess myself about the goals but I have to say on viewing the replays there's no way he's at fault for either.

      Sure on the first he 'could' get back in a bit quicker but in truth he's never going to get there and was actually doing what he was supposed to initially. On the second it's just a total sh*t show from Klavan/Gomez/Flanno and also Robbo to a lesser extent none of that was Jordan's fault but I don't think saying "f**k yourselves" is going to win the debate as much as facts will and the facts rather than the insults back you up on this one Mags.

      Yeah, I agree and see it, we rotate more often with Hendo there. Last season when Lucas played in the #6 role, he wasn't dragged away from the central area often, and rarely rotated with the #8's, hence us looking more solidified in the middle and defence imo.

      Klopp really needs to consider looking into a specialist (and cb) in January imo.

      On a side note, I thought his distribution was excellent today, especially in the first half!!

      Yeah his passing didn't get the recognition it deserved. Think both you and I appreciate the same type of pass as I suspect you saw them as very similar to how Lucas passes it, top quality in that first half as you say.
      fckmediocrity
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5227 : Sep 20, 2017 12:45:55 am »
      You'd expect your captain and leader to dominate the midfield against a second team of a side currently sitting 15th in the league.. at least that's what you'd expect from Gerrard, Alonso or Mascherano but no with Henderson.. the expectations are so low with him that we will praise him and give him MOTM just because he wasn't at fault for any conceded goal.



      Magillionare
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5228 : Sep 20, 2017 06:42:18 am »
      As someone who is often critical of Jordan I thought he played well tonight, actually gave him MotM. Was questioned on that a couple of times and I admit I had to second guess myself about the goals but I have to say on viewing the replays there's no way he's at fault for either.

      Sure on the first he 'could' get back in a bit quicker but in truth he's never going to get there and was actually doing what he was supposed to initially. On the second it's just a total sh*t show from Klavan/Gomez/Flanno and also Robbo to a lesser extent none of that was Jordan's fault but I don't think saying "f**k yourselves" is going to win the debate as much as facts will and the facts rather than the insults back you up on this one Mags.

      Yeah his passing didn't get the recognition it deserved. Think both you and I appreciate the same type of pass as I suspect you saw them as very similar to how Lucas passes it, top quality in that first half as you say.

      Good point mate, was rather annoyed at the time of posting and shouldn't have said that last part.
      heimdall
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5229 : Sep 20, 2017 07:29:46 am »
      As someone who is often critical of Jordan I thought he played well tonight, actually gave him MotM. Was questioned on that a couple of times and I admit I had to second guess myself about the goals but I have to say on viewing the replays there's no way he's at fault for either.

      Sure on the first he 'could' get back in a bit quicker but in truth he's never going to get there and was actually doing what he was supposed to initially. On the second it's just a total sh*t show from Klavan/Gomez/Flanno and also Robbo to a lesser extent none of that was Jordan's fault but I don't think saying "f**k yourselves" is going to win the debate as much as facts will and the facts rather than the insults back you up on this one Mags.

      Yeah his passing didn't get the recognition it deserved. Think both you and I appreciate the same type of pass as I suspect you saw them as very similar to how Lucas passes it, top quality in that first half as you say.

      Henderson MOTM, are you taking the piss?
      I'll agree he wasn't directly at fault for the goals but what good or great things did he do all match apart from shift the ball side to side and backwards. He is in my opinion our most negative and technically limited player and this is the captain we are talking about. Several times he had the chance to do a give and go but each time he bottled it which led to an attack breaking down. He is a garbage player. I hate to say it but I actually hope he gets injured so that Klopp is forced to play someone else.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5230 : Sep 20, 2017 07:33:19 am »
      I don't have the full match, only the highlights like Mags has posted, so I don't know why he's on the left.

      Read Mags' explanation though, it's spot on. The way our midfield works, the players rotate and constantly fill in each other's positions. Wether Henderson is a specialist #6 or not doesn't matter there, he's doing what he should be doing in our midfield, in our system. A specialist #6 would probably have stayed in his position in the situation that happened before the throw in and let the midfielder in front of him deal with it, but we don't play one, so we shouldn't think that way.

      If in the previous situation Henderson was dragged out wide to the left midfield position, the midfielders rotate and take over the #6 and the other #8, which our players do perfectly in that situation. We concede the throw in, Henderson stays there (easier than running all the way back to his position and making Grujic go to his). The throw in came from quite deep, so it looks like he's high up the pitch, but he isn't. The throw in goes over his head and then everything else happens. The only thing that you can say is that he "didn't bust a gut" to get near the ball, but there's no way you can blame him for the second goal. Grujic has to set his foot there and try to make a small foul not resulting in a second yellow and Gomez should be higher up the pitch and closer to Slimani.

      You say you haven't seen the match so how you can say I can't blame him for the match I have no idea.

      He was too easily taken out of the game because he is initially in the wrong starting position and too easily bypassed.
      Too much graphs a la Babu me thinks  ;)

      Scotia
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5231 : Sep 20, 2017 07:46:43 am »
      Was neither as good in the first half or as poor in the second as some are making out.

      Just going to be this lad's lot with us it seems. Proverbial lightning rod.

      Clearly NOT at fault either goal - first is carbon copy of Saturday and the second is Seville and Grujic has switched off at throw in.
      Danzel
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5232 : Sep 20, 2017 03:03:20 pm »
      You say you haven't seen the match so how you can say I can't blame him for the match I have no idea.

      He was too easily taken out of the game because he is initially in the wrong starting position and too easily bypassed.
      Too much graphs a la Babu me thinks  ;)

      I did see the full match. "I don't have the full match" as in not having the full match recorded. Apologies for not remembering every single second and phase of play of that game. The thing I meant was that I couldn't show why Henderson was in that position because I only had the highlights to get pictures from and in the highlights it doesn't show the situation happening before the throw in. Think you misunderstood me there.

      He is not initially in the wrong starting position if that was the position he was in after the previous situation. If you have a traditional #6 DM, yes, he is, in our system, he isn't and Grujic had clearly taken over the #6 position. Nothing to do with graphs or whatever, just seeing how the rotation in our midfield works. Henderson is not at fault for that goal, you can keep blaming him for that one all you want.

      He could have done better / more for the first though, fully agree with you on that.
      « Last Edit: Sep 20, 2017 03:18:52 pm by Danzel »
      Guruji
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5233 : Sep 20, 2017 10:30:05 pm »
      When I was watching the game on a river yesterday, there was something before their first goal which caught my eye with Hendo. Very few highlight reels show it (they just cut from the corner onwards). But thankfully there is a video which shows the little piece of action that leads to their corner immediately before the goal.

      https://vimeo.com/234744679

      Hendo presses high, but is unsuccessful with it. Leicester then play a long ball, our centre-half (unsurprisingly) loses the header and the second ball is with a Leicester player who has a lovely pocket of space in front of our defence. Wijnaldum is far away and I can't even see Grujic in the picture.

      It would be a valid point to say that one of Gini/Grujic/Ox should've stepped into the gap Hendo vacated to cover for his press. But then this argument of "Hendo is our #6 whose main job is to sit deepest, recover the ball and lay it off to his CM partners" becomes completely redundant, because what the f**k is he doing there? If he is indeed part of a rotating midfield, then you have to consider what he actually offers from a attacking sense, apart from running past opposition midfielders and leaving the ball completely behind. For the people who use stats to vehemently back him up - his assist and goal scoring figures are truly miserable, and that HAS to be considered part of his job if he is part of a rotating midfield.

      On the other hand, if that isn't part of his job, then he shouldn't be pressing so high like that and vacating the space behind him. It's not as if this is the first time he's done that either this season. Sometimes he's actually been successful (think the Arsenal game and nicking it off Ramsey?) but on the whole, it is just far too risky a move. Our defence and keeper are sh*t as they are - but when that huge gap opens up between them and Henderson (who is apparently our DM) it exacerbates our problems even more.
      lreland
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5234 : Sep 20, 2017 11:13:07 pm »
      how f**k is he still at club he run around like head less chicken
      Magillionare
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5235 : Sep 21, 2017 07:19:00 am »
      When I was watching the game on a river yesterday, there was something before their first goal which caught my eye with Hendo. Very few highlight reels show it (they just cut from the corner onwards). But thankfully there is a video which shows the little piece of action that leads to their corner immediately before the goal.

      https://vimeo.com/234744679

      Hendo presses high, but is unsuccessful with it. Leicester then play a long ball, our centre-half (unsurprisingly) loses the header and the second ball is with a Leicester player who has a lovely pocket of space in front of our defence. Wijnaldum is far away and I can't even see Grujic in the picture.

      It would be a valid point to say that one of Gini/Grujic/Ox should've stepped into the gap Hendo vacated to cover for his press. But then this argument of "Hendo is our #6 whose main job is to sit deepest, recover the ball and lay it off to his CM partners" becomes completely redundant, because what the f**k is he doing there? If he is indeed part of a rotating midfield, then you have to consider what he actually offers from a attacking sense, apart from running past opposition midfielders and leaving the ball completely behind. For the people who use stats to vehemently back him up - his assist and goal scoring figures are truly miserable, and that HAS to be considered part of his job if he is part of a rotating midfield.

      On the other hand, if that isn't part of his job, then he shouldn't be pressing so high like that and vacating the space behind him. It's not as if this is the first time he's done that either this season. Sometimes he's actually been successful (think the Arsenal game and nicking it off Ramsey?) but on the whole, it is just far too risky a move. Our defence and keeper are sh*t as they are - but when that huge gap opens up between them and Henderson (who is apparently our DM) it exacerbates our problems even more.


      He is usually the deepest however in that case he was the closest man. In Klopps system (and I may be wrong) that sees to take priority over position. It does not happen often with Henderson but it does happen and we've done well countless times because of high pressure from him. The ball then goes out for a corner, there is some more play and then Gomez plays everyone onside before the goal.

      Again, it's a very very tenuous link of the intention is to single out Henderson (but I'm not saying you are)
      bmck
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5236 : Sep 23, 2017 07:40:27 pm »
      Thought he was the pick of our midfielders today, got thro a LOT of work, tackles in, and scored the winner.
      Well done today Jordan! :)
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5237 : Sep 23, 2017 09:01:53 pm »
      Played a real Captains role today, well done Jordan, credit where it's due, people are always quick to cricitise but slow to praise and  I thought he really deserved the credit today, onwards and upwards and keep it going lad.
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5238 : Sep 23, 2017 09:04:40 pm »
      Stood head and shoulders above his fellow midfielders. Wanted to do something about the result today and did. Not much more you can ask from the captain.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5239 : Sep 23, 2017 09:09:21 pm »
      Played a real Captains role today, well done Jordan, credit where it's due, people are always quick to cricitise but slow to praise and  I thought he really deserved the credit today, onwards and upwards and keep it going lad.

      Yep, another top performance today by Jordan. As FMS says he stood out a mile among all the midfielders today and deserves all the praise heading his way. Capped the game with a deserved and winning goal.

      Well in Hendo.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5240 : Sep 23, 2017 09:17:01 pm »
      Yep, another top performance today by Jordan. As FMS says he stood out a mile among all the midfielders today and deserves all the praise heading his way. Capped the game with a deserved and winning goal.

      Well in Hendo.

      So much of his best work comes from high up the pitch where he is assisting or pressing as shown again today. Thought his distribution from deep was inconsistent today but I think overall, he had a decent game.
      AussieRed
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5241 : Sep 24, 2017 01:03:28 am »
      Nice to have him back on the scoresheet. Been a while. Now keep that momentum going, Jordan!
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5242 : Sep 24, 2017 11:45:36 pm »
      Nice to have him back on the scoresheet. Been a while. Now keep that momentum going, Jordan!

      What we need from Jordan is consistentcy. He's a good player who seems to have grown as a leader. However, he has got to continue to play the way he did today and games like the Aresenal match. He doesn't have to score to make his presence known. Just pass the ball with accuracy, whip in crosses to create chances, and defend. If he does that close to what he is capable of we will be fine.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5243 : Sep 26, 2017 10:01:18 pm »
      Whatever diet he's on right now he better stick to it, the best 3 performances back-to-back I've seen him play. Really impressed today and stood out a country mile as the best midfielder on show. Well played Hendo.
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5244 : Sep 26, 2017 10:15:15 pm »
      Whatever diet he's on right now he better stick to it, the best 3 performances back-to-back I've seen him play. Really impressed today and stood out a country mile as the best midfielder on show. Well played Hendo.

      Agreed.

      Really kicked on the last few games. Really hoping he keeps fit, as last few times he's kicked into this gear some kind of injury strikes him.
      redindian
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5245 : Sep 26, 2017 11:02:08 pm »
      Shout out to this fella. Playing like a true captain at the moment - bossing the midfield, at the ref's ears all the time.

      Was fantastic tonight, helping the defence as well playing some key passes in the attack.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5246 : Sep 26, 2017 11:09:41 pm »
      Take it easy boys lets play a proper team and let's see.
      Magillionare
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5247 : Sep 27, 2017 07:24:43 am »
      Take it easy boys lets play a proper team and let's see.

      So telling when some fans say 'take it easy' when you're praising a players. Sorry to sway from the norm of saying everyone is sh*t.
      Breeding-Reds-In-The-434
      • Forum Phil Thompson
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      • 481 posts | 120 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5248 : Sep 27, 2017 02:30:37 pm »
      Shout out to this fella. Playing like a true captain at the moment - bossing the midfield, at the ref's ears all the time.

      Was fantastic tonight, helping the defence as well playing some key passes in the attack.

      Dido, back to back strong games for him. As a supporter I am pleased with his play the last week. As a human being I'm really happy for this guy. He deserves better. A lot of the flak he gets is somewhat justified, he isn't exactly setting the world on fire with his play this season. The rest of it comes from stupid people who just feel the need to pull people down and spew negativity. Keep it up Hendo.

      P.S: That pass to Studg was straight hot fire.
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • 11,454 posts | 1814 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5249 : Oct 01, 2017 09:11:07 pm »
      The midfield combo of Hendo and Gini how grim.

      Gini who hides to absolve any responsibility and Henderson who can't even pass to our right hand side because he can only use his instep to pass.

      Wouldn't mind they're lack of creativity but both are extremely suspect defensively.

      Klopp loves trying being the Maverick but it's starting to look like round pegs in square holes.

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