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      Jordan Henderson (Liverpool -> Al-Ettifaq (5 months) -> Ajax)

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      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5244: Oct 02, 2017 11:14:07 pm
      Does our glorious captain raise chickens as well?



      What?
      skolRED
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5245: Oct 05, 2017 10:10:50 am
      There's an article analyzing Hendo's #6 role on www.thisisanfield.com
      I don't know if it's allow to put the link here but I've put it below, so please someone remove it if it's illegal.
      https://www.thisisanfield.com/2017/10/analysing-strengths-weaknesses-jordan-henderson-liverpools-no-6/

      I think it's interesting but I can not judge Hendo from that article as I don't know clearly what Klopp ask him to do, and how Klopp want our three midfield play.   
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5246: Oct 05, 2017 10:56:19 am
      There's an article analyzing Hendo's #6 role on www.thisisanfield.com
      I don't know if it's allow to put the link here but I've put it below, so please someone remove it if it's illegal.
      https://www.thisisanfield.com/2017/10/analysing-strengths-weaknesses-jordan-henderson-liverpools-no-6/

      I think it's interesting but I can not judge Hendo from that article as I don't know clearly what Klopp ask him to do, and how Klopp want our three midfield play.

      Thanks for posting that.
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5247: Oct 05, 2017 11:24:08 am
      Jordan is fairly tidy, pretty technical and doesn't usually shy away from a challenge. Maybe its unfair to pick on him for his backward distribution but it certainly sticks out like a sort thumb to me. I spend more time yelling "Pass it forward" when he's got the ball than just about anything else I yell at the TV during our games. So frustrating sometimes.

      Sick and tired of him. Absolutely gutted that he’s our captain
      FL Red
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5248: Oct 05, 2017 01:29:22 pm

      Actually think Joe is a better distributor of the ball. I'd have him back here as an option in a heartbeat.
      FL Red
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5249: Oct 05, 2017 01:36:35 pm
      There's an article analyzing Hendo's #6 role on www.thisisanfield.com
      I don't know if it's allow to put the link here but I've put it below, so please someone remove it if it's illegal.
      https://www.thisisanfield.com/2017/10/analysing-strengths-weaknesses-jordan-henderson-liverpools-no-6/

      I think it's interesting but I can not judge Hendo from that article as I don't know clearly what Klopp ask him to do, and how Klopp want our three midfield play.   

      Pretty interesting points. I think it hits on some of the key points that most will see (if they are being objective) in that he's a pretty good passer when he's comfortable, but getting out of pressure and defending deep aren't really what he does well.
      Danzel
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5250: Oct 05, 2017 05:48:44 pm
      There's an article analyzing Hendo's #6 role on www.thisisanfield.com
      I don't know if it's allow to put the link here but I've put it below, so please someone remove it if it's illegal.
      https://www.thisisanfield.com/2017/10/analysing-strengths-weaknesses-jordan-henderson-liverpools-no-6/

      I think it's interesting but I can not judge Hendo from that article as I don't know clearly what Klopp ask him to do, and how Klopp want our three midfield play.

      You say it yourself, you don't know wat Klopp asks Henderson to do, neither does the guest writer of that article. It's all just guesswork really, certainly with regards to his positioning. Interesting article nonetheless.

      The things I agree with: Henderson the passer and Henderson under pressure.

      1. Henderson the passer

      We all know that, if given the time, Henderson is a good passer of the ball and Robby The Z posted an article in the "Malfunctioning midfield" topic with regards to his passing statistics. His passing has been a bit more adventurous this season and he's creating chances, so that's a good thing.

      2. Henderson under pressure

      As the writer says, our #8's (in a 4-3-3) are able to receive the ball facing our own goalkeeper and turn away from pressure into space (Wijnaldum, Lallana, Coutinho), that's something you'll very rarely see Henderson do. Either he passes it out wide to one of the full backs or it goes back to the CB (in that situation, not when he has the pitch in front of him). That's why the shouts for Henderson to be an #8 in this system are understandable, but it wouldn't work. He's no good under pressure and our #8's invite pressure to then beat the man and create space in behind where then an other player has to step out of his formation, creating space again for our players.

      Things would be different in a 4-2-3-1 where I think he could be the #8 / box-to-box midfielder. Problem being that we don't have a genuine #6 (A Dier, Matic, Kante, ...) to sit next to him and that he's our best shout as a #6 in both the 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1.

      The things I don't agree with, this will be some guesswork of my own (so completely my own view):

      Henderson's positioning in the examples he gives. As I said, neither of us, that includes the writer, know which instructions Klopp gives to Henderson. With that in mind, Henderson strikes me as a player who you can give a set of instructions and he'll do his absolute best to execute these instructions.

      If Klopp would have an issue with Henderson's positioning in such a vital position, then why does he keep playing Henderson there and why hasn't he looked at a replacement in the two and a half seasons he has been here? Henderson has been our deepest midfielder ever since Klopp has arrived. That leads me to believe that Henderson is doing what Klopp is asking him to do and that Klopp doesn't see Henderson as an issue at all, given he rarely gets rotated compared to our other midfielders.

      1. Reactive or proactive

      The writer says himself that Klopp had changed to a 4-2-3-1 formation to give the defence more protection. The midfielders are there to keep the center closed and protect the CB's / the middle of the pitch. Midfield rotation and the covering positions / areas you have to cover, are from my understanding, different. If we had been playing a 4-3-3, the player that would've been on the right of the midfield three, would've been the one giving cover to Gomez with the other two midfielders coming over and staying more central.

      However, isn't it different in a 4-2-3-1? Why would you want your #6 to leave his position in front of the CB's, protecting the middle, to go over and cover the right back area? Wasn't one of the criticisms of Henderson that he too often goes chasing (in a 4-3-3) instead of holding his position in front of the defenders? Yet that's what the writer wants him to do in this situation, while playing a 4-2-3-1? What I would think in that situation is that the defence should shift: Matip comes over, Lovren shifts, Moreno shifts, Henderson's movement suggests he's still on the move to be where he should be and Can also shifts to get closer to Henderson and protect the middle.



      For me an other issue there is the distance between Henderson and Can. In a 4-2-3-1, they should be closer together and working more as a pair. Also if Henderson vacates his position there, who fills in for him in the middle? Can on his own? Gomez? Do we want our #10 defending on the edge of the box?

      2. Covering his full back

      The same applies to this situation.



      That game was more of a 4-3-3 again, you can clearly so our three midfielders lined up in front of your defence. If the Spartak player wants to play that ball, it's a high risk one. Both Moreno and Salah are cutting off the passing lane, if he passes, either Moreno blocks or Salah intercepts. If it gets past both, Lovren can step out and make the clearance, if the pass is too hard, the goalkeeper likely collects. Salah is the one covering there and helping Moreno with the overlap. So I don't really see too much wrong with Henderon's positioning there, perhaps a yard or two deeper? Anyone else maybe any thoughts?



      Again, I don't really see what's wrong? The man on the ball has two options: play it back, we move up the pitch or play it into the corner towards the corner flag. All our players are cutting off the other passing lanes. If the ball gets played into the corner, Salah is in the right position to go defend there and Henderson would move towards the blue line I put on the image to defend that area. Lovren and Matip are also clearly shouting at Henderson to let him know the player is coming and you can see Henderson checking over his left shoulder.

      He mentions Henderson should be goalside of the player, but why is Can not being mentioned? Can someone tell me what it is exactly he is doing there? Shouldn't he be goal side of the player close to him? Gomez and Lovren both marking the attackers with Matip the free man in the middle.
      « Last Edit: Oct 05, 2017 05:57:23 pm by Danzel »
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5251: Oct 05, 2017 06:12:39 pm
      Actually think Joe is a better distributor of the ball. I'd have him back here as an option in a heartbeat.

      Especially now he has got rid of the jesus look
      MIRO
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5252: Oct 05, 2017 06:29:55 pm
      He sh*t wish sold him years ago all he does run around lot

      Thats a reasonable view of his play with his wrist hanging down for style.
      Magillionare
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5253: Oct 05, 2017 07:46:00 pm
      Look.

      The fact that when he missed a penalty in pre season we had 3 pages of comments and when he goes on a good run of games we get 3 comments total says it all. People for some reason have it in for Jordan. Refuse to acknowledge when he plays well and spout hyperbole and dated opinions about him when we don't win a game (which is obviously his fault every time).

      Don't get me wrong, some on here have good arguments, the positional analysis in particular is very good. If you have evidence to back up any claims I'm all for debate and listening to arguments. But if you're saying sh*t like this:

      He sh*t wish sold him years ago all he does run around lot

      It's just atavistic nonsense a baboon gets if it slammed its knuckles off a keyboard. The very least deserved in the thread of our captain is reasoned debate with some logic and evidence to back it up.
      Brian78
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5254: Oct 05, 2017 07:58:08 pm
      Needs to man up a bit there v Slovenia. Good tackle on him.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5255: Oct 05, 2017 11:53:58 pm
      https://twitter.com/SteDavies316/status/916018419564187649/video/1

      That there ladies and gentlemen is the Liverpool captain!
      « Last Edit: Oct 06, 2017 05:01:50 am by Beerbelly »
      Magillionare
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5256: Oct 06, 2017 06:53:11 am

      Must admit that is pretty funny 😆
      skolRED
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5257: Oct 07, 2017 05:58:22 am
      You say it yourself, you don't know wat Klopp asks Henderson to do, neither does the guest writer of that article. It's all just guesswork really, certainly with regards to his positioning. Interesting article nonetheless.

      The things I agree with: Henderson the passer and Henderson under pressure.

      1. Henderson the passer

      We all know that, if given the time, Henderson is a good passer of the ball and Robby The Z posted an article in the "Malfunctioning midfield" topic with regards to his passing statistics. His passing has been a bit more adventurous this season and he's creating chances, so that's a good thing.

      2. Henderson under pressure

      As the writer says, our #8's (in a 4-3-3) are able to receive the ball facing our own goalkeeper and turn away from pressure into space (Wijnaldum, Lallana, Coutinho), that's something you'll very rarely see Henderson do. Either he passes it out wide to one of the full backs or it goes back to the CB (in that situation, not when he has the pitch in front of him). That's why the shouts for Henderson to be an #8 in this system are understandable, but it wouldn't work. He's no good under pressure and our #8's invite pressure to then beat the man and create space in behind where then an other player has to step out of his formation, creating space again for our players.

      Things would be different in a 4-2-3-1 where I think he could be the #8 / box-to-box midfielder. Problem being that we don't have a genuine #6 (A Dier, Matic, Kante, ...) to sit next to him and that he's our best shout as a #6 in both the 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1.

      The things I don't agree with, this will be some guesswork of my own (so completely my own view):

      Henderson's positioning in the examples he gives. As I said, neither of us, that includes the writer, know which instructions Klopp gives to Henderson. With that in mind, Henderson strikes me as a player who you can give a set of instructions and he'll do his absolute best to execute these instructions.

      If Klopp would have an issue with Henderson's positioning in such a vital position, then why does he keep playing Henderson there and why hasn't he looked at a replacement in the two and a half seasons he has been here? Henderson has been our deepest midfielder ever since Klopp has arrived. That leads me to believe that Henderson is doing what Klopp is asking him to do and that Klopp doesn't see Henderson as an issue at all, given he rarely gets rotated compared to our other midfielders.

      1. Reactive or proactive

      The writer says himself that Klopp had changed to a 4-2-3-1 formation to give the defence more protection. The midfielders are there to keep the center closed and protect the CB's / the middle of the pitch. Midfield rotation and the covering positions / areas you have to cover, are from my understanding, different. If we had been playing a 4-3-3, the player that would've been on the right of the midfield three, would've been the one giving cover to Gomez with the other two midfielders coming over and staying more central.

      However, isn't it different in a 4-2-3-1? Why would you want your #6 to leave his position in front of the CB's, protecting the middle, to go over and cover the right back area? Wasn't one of the criticisms of Henderson that he too often goes chasing (in a 4-3-3) instead of holding his position in front of the defenders? Yet that's what the writer wants him to do in this situation, while playing a 4-2-3-1? What I would think in that situation is that the defence should shift: Matip comes over, Lovren shifts, Moreno shifts, Henderson's movement suggests he's still on the move to be where he should be and Can also shifts to get closer to Henderson and protect the middle.



      For me an other issue there is the distance between Henderson and Can. In a 4-2-3-1, they should be closer together and working more as a pair. Also if Henderson vacates his position there, who fills in for him in the middle? Can on his own? Gomez? Do we want our #10 defending on the edge of the box?

      2. Covering his full back

      The same applies to this situation.



      That game was more of a 4-3-3 again, you can clearly so our three midfielders lined up in front of your defence. If the Spartak player wants to play that ball, it's a high risk one. Both Moreno and Salah are cutting off the passing lane, if he passes, either Moreno blocks or Salah intercepts. If it gets past both, Lovren can step out and make the clearance, if the pass is too hard, the goalkeeper likely collects. Salah is the one covering there and helping Moreno with the overlap. So I don't really see too much wrong with Henderon's positioning there, perhaps a yard or two deeper? Anyone else maybe any thoughts?



      Again, I don't really see what's wrong? The man on the ball has two options: play it back, we move up the pitch or play it into the corner towards the corner flag. All our players are cutting off the other passing lanes. If the ball gets played into the corner, Salah is in the right position to go defend there and Henderson would move towards the blue line I put on the image to defend that area. Lovren and Matip are also clearly shouting at Henderson to let him know the player is coming and you can see Henderson checking over his left shoulder.

      He mentions Henderson should be goalside of the player, but why is Can not being mentioned? Can someone tell me what it is exactly he is doing there? Shouldn't he be goal side of the player close to him? Gomez and Lovren both marking the attackers with Matip the free man in the middle.

      I'm really appreciate your comment mate. Yours posts always good and they're kind of quality posts that need on any forum.

      But I'm merely a Liverpool FC fan who my whole life has nothing relate to football so I'm absolutely no idea how things like tactics work.

      So any comments of mine would be 'guest work' at best and often they're based on pure emotion/feelings that's why I'm always appreciate when see quality posts like your those benefit the fellow reds.

      I put those links as I think it's interesting and I don't know the writer opinions are right or wrong, as same as your but I'm happy reading them :D

      Hopefully, you, and other good posters here keeping quality works on this forum for the good of the club we all love and our reds fellows around the world.
      season12
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5258: Nov 22, 2017 06:13:31 pm
      Imo, he is same circumstances as Lucas was once. Majority LFC fans foolishly think he is way better, and rate himas  one of best in the league. Imo, He is part of problem and we have the accept it. It's not just the back 5, but 6 players.

      Also, I am more inclined to play Milner instead of him.
      skamp
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5259: Nov 23, 2017 03:54:16 pm
      Always been a fan of Henderson, but the reality is he can't hold a candle to the likes of Gerrard, Alonso, McMahon, Souness & top midfielders we've had over the years.  We need a stand out all-round midfielder who can attack, pass, tackle, defend, organise, and we haven't had one since Stevie.  Hopefully Keita will be the answer to this and the likes of Henderson will either improve alongside him or move on.
      Leeboyo
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5260: Nov 23, 2017 11:07:10 pm
      Problem with Henderson (apart from being totally overrated like Lucas as suggested by @season12) is that he is rarely in the right place at the right time. You often see him situated right in between the 2 centrebacks spraying the ball left or right with no pressure on him.
      Despite their pitfalls, both Lovren and Matip are completely adept at doing this (reservations over Klavan). Henderson is not needed here. Nor is he needed in centre-mid passing backwards when he's under pressure which then puts the back 4 under pressure and mistakes are made.
      He's rarely in the right place when we're under attack, he doesn't organise the team well in set piece situations in-game, and he's not great going forward creatively.
      So what (TF) does he actually do?
      I prefer both Can and Milner in that role. That said, I prefer Milner to Moreno at leftback. Still not convinced Moreno is a better player this season and what a shocker he had against Sevilla, which makes our final champions league match a very nervy one!
      I don't see Henderson as a prospect for Liverpool, if he's that overrated then cash in on him now cause my head drops when I see his name on the team sheet for both Liverpool and England. As suggested, hopefully the arrival of Keita next season will mean the door for Henderson opposed to Can.
      And finally, how he's become captain of both club and country is beyond me. He's completely uninspiring.
      All I can think is that his arse licking skills in training must be amazing!
      Magillionare
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5261: Nov 23, 2017 11:28:03 pm
      And finally, how he's become captain of both club and country is beyond me. He's completely uninspiring.
      All I can think is that his arse licking skills in training must be amazing!


      Really? That's all you can think of? Not that paid professionals who study the game for a living know more than you?
      Leeboyo
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5262: Nov 24, 2017 03:01:30 pm
      Really? That's all you can think of? Not that paid professionals who study the game for a living know more than you?
      Really well thought out cheap shot. Nice one!
      MIRO
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5263: Nov 24, 2017 03:13:52 pm
      Someone mentioned Lucas and Hendo in the same post.

      Worlds Apart.

      Lucas was unfairly knocked in the early days and he proved to be one of our best players in the last decade.


      Q . Why havent we sold the dross off ?
      Magillionare
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5264: Nov 24, 2017 04:12:05 pm
      Really well thought out cheap shot. Nice one!

      Not really cheap though... just pointing something out
      Breeding-Reds-In-The-434
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5265: Nov 25, 2017 08:13:03 pm
      He has eroded so harshly that it is sad. Forget is he good enough to be captain, at this point he isn’t good enough to in the starting 11. His DM skills suck something awful. Whether it’s a confidence issue or just bad luck physically he isn’t the same. I like the kid but facts are facts. Please sign a DM sometime very SOON
      lreland
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5266: Nov 25, 2017 11:39:00 pm
      Don't blame him mangers seem pick him he sh*t

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