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      Jordan Henderson (Liverpool -> Al-Ettifaq (5 months) -> Ajax)

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      Kopite78
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5405: May 03, 2018 09:08:26 am
      I'd love to see Hendo lifting ol big ears as a big F**k off to his doubters inside and outside the club

      Bring it home skip
      Scotia
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5406: May 03, 2018 12:32:46 pm
      I'd love to see Hendo lifting ol big ears as a big f**k off to his doubters inside and outside the club

      Bring it home skip

      Yes.
      FL Red
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5407: May 03, 2018 01:19:21 pm
      Thought he did fine last night. Wasnā€™t flashy, didnā€™t need to be and overall acted the part of a leader.
      clint_call01
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5408: May 03, 2018 07:20:34 pm
      Last night, it showed that he loves Liverpool, it showed. You cannot fake those emotions and the talk to Karius is brilliant.

      https://twitter.com/danb27684/status/991781892398739456
      Scotia
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5409: May 03, 2018 09:08:15 pm
      Amazed at some of of the negativity / ā€œmehā€ type comments heā€™s getting after last night.

      No player in this squad couldā€™ve done what he did last night in terms of screening and covering.

      Milnerā€™s excellent form of late due in large parts to Hendo filling in when he clears out the middle. No coincidence Jimmy has gone up a level when he plays.
      FL Red
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5410: May 03, 2018 09:35:39 pm
      Amazed at some of of the negativity / ā€œmehā€ type comments heā€™s getting after last night.

      No player in this squad couldā€™ve done what he did last night in terms of screening and covering.

      Milnerā€™s excellent form of late due in large parts to Hendo filling in when he clears out the middle. No coincidence Jimmy has gone up a level when he plays.

      You know what's  funny, it used to be when I saw Hendo and Milner in midfield I shook my head because it was going to be negative football. But now they don't play that way anymore. I have to attribute that to Klopp, they are very decisive and whether they are protecting/pressing or going forward, they know what to do with it and generally they get on with things. Don't think Hendo was as defensive last night as he was in the prior game and that's what people are picking out, but maybe it was by design? Who knows.
      Magillionare
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5411: May 14, 2018 07:56:27 am
      Been amazing to have him back fit and healthy. I think we look far more solid with him in the team and the ā€˜sideways passingā€™ myth finally seems to be dispelled since people started actually watching the game.

      Like him or not, heā€™s about to become a club legend by lifting number 6. I couldnā€™t be happier for him.
      AussieRed
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5412: May 14, 2018 08:00:39 am
      Been amazing to have him back fit and healthy. I think we look far more solid with him in the team and the ā€˜sideways passingā€™ myth finally seems to be dispelled since people started actually watching the game.

      Like him or not, heā€™s about to become a club legend by lifting number 6. I couldnā€™t be happier for him.

      I don't think it's a myth mate, watched him yesterday intently and his first instinct is to get the ball and sideways pass it or back pass it. He also threw in a couple of forward passes but not as much as his sideways and back passes.

      Having said that though, I'd much prefer him in the Team then not, as we seem to be a better Unit with him marshalling at the back, always providing an outlet.
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5413: May 14, 2018 08:12:32 am
      I don't think it's a myth mate, watched him yesterday intently and his first instinct is to get the ball and sideways pass it or back pass it. He also threw in a couple of forward passes but not as much as his sideways and back passes.

      Having said that though, I'd much prefer him in the Team then not, as we seem to be a better Unit with him marshalling at the back, always providing an outlet.

      Agreed, he still looks for the safety pass but F**k me the boy has an engine.

      There is no doubt about it, he has improved this season and I wouldnā€™t swap him at the moment. Massive game for him in a couple of weeks and I genuinely think heā€™ll enjoy it against real.
      Magillionare
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5414: May 14, 2018 08:31:23 am
      I don't think it's a myth mate, watched him yesterday intently and his first instinct is to get the ball and sideways pass it or back pass it. He also threw in a couple of forward passes but not as much as his sideways and back passes.

      Having said that though, I'd much prefer him in the Team then not, as we seem to be a better Unit with him marshalling at the back, always providing an outlet.

      I think he definitely does it, but compared to other players in the same role his passing is not an anomaly.

      He takes the safe option most of the time, and Iā€™m happy with that. 4-5 times yesterday he played beautiful long balls over the top, so he has it in his locker however he seems to reserve that for when we are more advanced up the pitch which is sensible
      AussieRed
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5415: May 14, 2018 08:52:53 am
      I think he definitely does it, but compared to other players in the same role his passing is not an anomaly.

      He takes the safe option most of the time, and Iā€™m happy with that. 4-5 times yesterday he played beautiful long balls over the top, so he has it in his locker however he seems to reserve that for when we are more advanced up the pitch which is sensible

      So lads, where do you think he fits in next season when Keita comes in? Does Keita play the same sort of role as Hendo. I don't watch the German League so have no clue.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5416: May 14, 2018 09:06:46 am
      So lads, where do you think he fits in next season when Keita comes in? Does Keita play the same sort of role as Hendo. I don't watch the German League so have no clue.

      No Keita isn't a number 6 he's more of an 8

      Hendo will still be the main number 6 next season

      On his passing

      Henderson like every other player in the side plays to instruction.. He's doing exactly what he's being asked to do by the manager.
      If he wasn't he wouldn't be playing

      Simple really
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5417: May 14, 2018 09:33:31 am
      I think he definitely does it, but compared to other players in the same role his passing is not an anomaly.

      He takes the safe option most of the time, and Iā€™m happy with that. 4-5 times yesterday he played beautiful long balls over the top, so he has it in his locker however he seems to reserve that for when we are more advanced up the pitch which is sensible
      Remember many years ago when Gary Neville was boasted to be the best defender in the league, I watched one United game, because it was the world club cup. All he kept doing was passing back to the keeper and had no vision to pass the ball into the midfield, he thought it was the safe option until one of the opposing strikers intercepted it and kicked it in the net. Was very hilarious, but long before that I said back passes aren't defending. As a defensive player the job is to retrieve the ball at the back and get rid. Playing it back or sideways is not getting rid, it's adding to the danger. Look to the infamous Gerrard slip, there was no reason to play it to Gerrard. Sure he was a great player, but these freak incidents happen and the law of averages states it is more likely to happen if passing it in your own half. The best way to defend is to pass up around up front and if a good chance to score comes, take it. The defence should be seen as a last option not a place to get passing statistics. 
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5418: May 14, 2018 09:41:15 am
      Henderson like every other player in the side plays to instruction.. He's doing exactly what he's being asked to do by the manager.
      To an extent. I think Klopp would say pass it back or sideways if no forward pass is available. Henderson just doesn't see all available passes quite often. It was not the biggest problem, defence and keeper were.. but now that has been solved Henderson should feel a bit worried with the transfer window coming and the next place to strengthen looks to be the midfield. Can will likely go, which could give Henderson a chance to stay as a starter, but with Ox and Kieta.. it will only take one more midfield signing of real quality and Henderson won't be starting anymore. If the rumours are true and we go for Jorginho, it means Klopp is already aware of Hendersons limitations since Jorginho is an upgrade and Henderson, Henderson would become Jorginho's backup. Just because we tolerated Henderson doesn't mean it is optimal, it means we did have bigger fish to fry.
      « Last Edit: May 14, 2018 09:45:42 am by Ribapuru »
      Kopite78
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5419: May 14, 2018 09:41:47 am
      Remember many years ago when Gary Neville was boasted to be the best defender in the league, I watched one United game, because it was the world club cup. All he kept doing was passing back to the keeper and had no vision to pass the ball into the midfield, he thought it was the safe option until one of the opposing strikers intercepted it and kicked it in the net. Was very hilarious, but long before that I said back passes aren't defending. As a defensive player the job is to retrieve the ball at the back and get rid. Playing it back or sideways is not getting rid, it's adding to the danger. Look to the infamous Gerrard slip, there was no reason to play it to Gerrard. Sure he was a great player, but these freak incidents happen and the law of averages states it is more likely to happen if passing it in your own half. The best way to defend is to pass up around up front and if a good chance to score comes, take it. The defence should be seen as a last option not a place to get passing statistics.

      Defenders (and include a dm in this then) should just get the ball and get rid?

      That's what you're saying?

      What as far away from their goal as possible? Just take a touch and get rid?

      That's just not modern football though Rib. You listen to any modern day manager they want to retain possession and if you just hoof it to get rid then at best you're having your forwards battling in the air and then for second balls.. at best you're talking losing possession far more often than you would want and it's just coming back at you

      Say Hendo or Trent get the ball and punt it away from goal for Bobby to chase scraps then the opposition get the ball cone straight down our end and put us under pressure again and score..

      What the defender did his job by getting it away in the first place?

      Klopp is massive on ball retention.. so Hendo playing balls to keep the possession is exactly what the manager wants.. not just get it away from our goal asap

      That's like Wimbledon of the 80s stuff that

      To an extent. I think Klopp would say pass it back or sideways if no forward pass is available. Henderson just doesn't see all available passes quite often. It was not the biggest problem, defence and keeper were.. but now that has been solved Henderson should feel a bit worried with the transfer window coming and the next place to strengthen looks to be the midfield. Can will likely go, which could give Henderson a chance to stay as a starter, but with Ox and Kieta.. it will only take one more midfield signing of real quality and Henderson won't be starting anymore. If the rumours are true and we go for Jorginho, it means Klopp is already aware of Hendersons limitations since Jorginho is an upgrade and Henderson, Henderson would become Jorginho's backup. Just because we tolerated Henderson doesn't mean it is optimal, it means we didhave bigger fish to fry.

      It's confirmation bias to think he doesn't have penetrating passes in his game because he does

      As for upgrading.. yeah possibly, I think Klopp would do if he thought that was for the best
      But I think you underestimate what Klopp thinks of Henderson.. just go and listen to interviews on him.. He's completely bewildered that he's not rated so much higher.. it really confuses him
      You can't put on that reaction
      ConzS
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5420: May 14, 2018 09:42:06 am
      No Keita isn't a number 6 he's more of an 8

      Hendo will still be the main number 6 next season

      On his passing

      Henderson like every other player in the side plays to instruction.. He's doing exactly what he's being asked to do by the manager.
      If he wasn't he wouldn't be playing

      Simple really
      Not really that simple. Henderson starting is as much out of necessity as it is his performances; we have not had the luxury of options in the midfield area.

      To say that he is doing exactly what is being asked of him is a wild stab in the dark - maybe he is, maybe he isnā€™t. The way I see it though is that Klopp plays him despite his sometimes conservative passing. And that is meant as a positive by the way - Klopp knows his importance in our style of play and he is probably one of the first names on the teamsheet. Iā€™d be surprised if there were any players - even Salah - who Klopp doesnā€™t think has weaknesses.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5421: May 14, 2018 09:44:08 am
      Defenders (and include a dm in this then) should just get the ball and get rid?

      That's what you're saying?

      What as far away from their goal as possible? Just take a touch and get rid?

      That's just not modern football though Rib. You listen to any modern day manager they want to retain possession and if you just hoof it to get rid then at best you're having your forwards battling in the air and then for second balls.. at best you're talking losing possession far more often than you would want and it's just coming back at you

      Say Hendo or Trent get the ball and punt it away from goal for Bobby to chase scraps then the opposition get the ball cone straight down our end and put us under pressure again and score..

      What the defender did his job by getting it away in the first place?

      Klopp is massive on ball retention.. so Hendo playing balls to keep the possession is exactly what the manager wants.. not just get it away from our goal asap

      That's like Wimbledon of the 80s stuff that
      Yeah I get your point, I should be more clear that I don't mean hoofing it. When I say get rid I mean pass it to the midfield or something along those lines.
      Scotia
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5422: May 14, 2018 09:46:46 am
      Henderson starting is because weā€™re better with him than without him.

      Have been since halfway through his first season when heā€™d settled in.

      Heā€™s the most under appreciated player in England by the average armchair fan.

      He isnā€™t going to become a markedly different player - I donā€™t want him to. Itā€™s a squad game and we need him more than most across a season.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5423: May 14, 2018 09:47:10 am
      Not really that simple. Henderson starting is as much out of necessity as it is his performances; we have not had the luxury of options in the midfield area.

      To say that he is doing exactly what is being asked of him is a wild stab in the dark - maybe he is, maybe he isnā€™t. The way I see it though is that Klopp plays him despite his sometimes conservative passing. And that is meant as a positive by the way - Klopp knows his importance in our style of play and he is probably one of the first names on the teamsheet. Iā€™d be surprised if there were any players - even Salah - who Klopp doesnā€™t think has weaknesses.
      That is how I see it too, Henderson is the best we had for this role, but we do need better. Jorginho will be such a massive plus.. imagive Ox Jorginho and Kieta in our midfield? Mouth watering.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5424: May 14, 2018 09:49:12 am
      Not really that simple. Henderson starting is as much out of necessity as it is his performances; we have not had the luxury of options in the midfield area.

      To say that he is doing exactly what is being asked of him is a wild stab in the dark - maybe he is, maybe he isnā€™t. The way I see it though is that Klopp plays him despite his sometimes conservative passing. And that is meant as a positive by the way - Klopp knows his importance in our style of play and he is probably one of the first names on the teamsheet. Iā€™d be surprised if there were any players - even Salah - who Klopp doesnā€™t think has weaknesses.

      Every single aspect of a game is planned now mate, in terms of role.

      Trust me Klopp wouldn't just put up with someone's limitations
      He's had long enough to replace him and as I said above watch interviews where he talks about him.. he rates him far far higher than most

      I'm not saying he wouldn't replace him of he found an upgrade but even if he did I think you'd see the upgrade do a very similar job to Henderson in terms of instruction
      Kopite78
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5425: May 14, 2018 09:52:49 am
      Yeah I get your point, I should be more clear that I don't mean hoofing it. When I say get rid I mean pass it to the midfield or something along those lines.

      Which is exactly what Henderson does..  exactly

      He will only pass backwards if the passing lanes are closed
      And if he does that he's passing to any of 4 who are fantastic passes of the ball themselves

      If he passes back to Virgil and then moves forward himself (it only needs to be 10 yards) then one of the opposition who is marking further forward has to press allowing Virgil the passing lanes that wasn't there for Henderson

      We have wonderful ball players in every position which means they're all comfortable with it.

      It's possession game that Klopp wants
      GeorgeRed
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5426: May 14, 2018 09:54:08 am
      If we really want to progress, we must sign an upgrade to him in the CM role, he should be squad player. i love his determination and fighting attitude but he just isn't a top quality player we really need in midfield. I'd rather have Weigl/Jorginho in a DM role with Keita and Chamberlain in midfield.
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #5427: May 14, 2018 10:02:07 am
      Which is exactly what Henderson does..  exactly

      He will only pass backwards if the passing lanes are closed
      And if he does that he's passing to any of 4 who are fantastic passes of the ball themselves

      If he passes back to Virgil and then moves forward himself (it only needs to be 10 yards) then one of the opposition who is marking further forward has to press allowing Virgil the passing lanes that wasn't there for Henderson

      We have wonderful ball players in every position which means they're all comfortable with it.

      It's possession game that Klopp wants
      I think this is what splits the fanbase on Henderson. Loyalists who back our players regardless often say this, but the more cynical fans.. I could be talking about myself here.. seem to spot alternatives he could have made. I'm not the only one because I've seen people post screen shots on this forum of a whole range of choices Henderson had.. but instead of taking them he chose some 5 yard sideways pass. This lead onto a debate that, does he see the options and lack the confidence to take them? He's got some awareness but it's more about what is around him in his own half and often seems to not notice options on the other side of the field. I am not saying all the time, but it is a bit too frequent to consider him optimal. Personally I think Klopp is aware of it and he isn't going to publicly berate Henderson for it because it is a smaller issue than what a lot of us make it to be.. Klopp is also too classy to publicly berate. Jorginho is on Alonso level, these are the next level to Henderson. Henderson has these times where he is average then cuts above average for a while then sits back into an average level, he is a safe option. Imagine having a party, not many people like pepperoni pizza for a fravorite, but if you have to order for everybody it is probably the standard option. Henderson is like the pepperoni pizza of Liverpool.

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