Lucas & the defensive midfielder thread

I just can't understand why people need to try to overrate Lucas as "world class", he is good enough to play an important role for Liverpool and thats the most important thing. Over rating players does no one any favours. People start to expect too much, and if the player fails to live up to the billing he soon becomes the whipping boy rather than accepted as a good decent player who is a valuable member of the first team squad.I believe we can get better but that doesn't mean that Lucas hasn't done a goodjob because he has. I am quite happy accepting that he will make a good contribution to our season without the tag of world class being attached to him.     

 In fairness labelling him "World class" is the latest in a long line of frankly ridiculous claims made about Lucas. If he isn´t "harder to replace than Suarez" (I still can´t get over that one) he´s "World class" and had he played against Galatasaray, we´d have reversed the 3-0 defeat into a 3-0 win.

 I think it´s just that people feel they need to make ever more outlandish statements about things in order to make themselves look even more certain that they are right about something. It´s daft, it´s silly, and I suspect they know it is even as they´re typing it (or at least I hope they do for their own sake), but it passes the time away for a bit of knockabout debate.

 I agree with you though S@int, Lucas is a decent player. Seems like a nice lad too, always tries his best etc etc etc etc.

 Over the years standing on the old KOP I listened to many good REDS have different opinions about players,now there would be good hearted banter about whose opinion was right or wrong.The point is every RED was entitled to his own opinion and the people who stood on the Kop and elsewhere at Anfield knew their football
                                                                                I will not get into the debate of Lucas being world class or otherwise but I do know he played well last season and as has been mentioned by others was a guiding influence to the likes of Flanagan and Robinson when they were thrown in at the deep end.I think a measure of his ability would soon show if he was put up for transfer,I dare say he would not be on the transfer list very long.

In fairness labelling him "World class" is the latest in a long line of frankly ridiculous claims made about Lucas. If he isn´t "harder to replace than Suarez" (I still can´t get over that one) he´s "World class" and had he played against Galatasaray, we´d have reversed the 3-0 defeat into a 3-0 win.

 I think it´s just that people feel they need to make ever more outlandish statements about things in order to make themselves look even more certain that they are right about something. It´s daft, it´s silly, and I suspect they know it is even as they´re typing it (or at least I hope they do for their own sake), but it passes the time away for a bit of knockabout debate.

 I agree with you though S@int, Lucas is a decent player. Seems like a nice lad too, always tries his best etc etc etc etc.

Maybe the outlandish 'World class' comments just balance out all the 'shittest player ever' jibes thrown his way.  Both are blatantly OTT.

 Who´s ever said that he´s the "shittiest player ever" though? Nobody really have they, lets be honest here and not jump on the "National outlandish statement day" bandwagon.

Who´s ever said that he´s the "shittiest player ever" though? Nobody really have they, lets be honest here and not jump on the "National outlandish statement day" bandwagon.

That your own national day BigMick, you being one for hyperbole yourself? Those comments have been made about Lucas, along with shouldn't be anywhere near our squad etc, maybe not in this thread, but in several others that discussed Lucas to death on this and other forums.

Lucas and Spering are going to be massive for us this season.

You understand as much about football as you do about irony

So you're taking the piss out of a Liverpool player and the club.

Well done.

So you're taking the piss out of a Liverpool player and the club.

Well done.

Personally I thought he was taking the piss out of a clueless poster, not the club   

 Irony never works when you have to explain it to people . It depends upon them being able to get it in the first place.

Actually Brains, I was answering soft sh*te's idiotic statement that I think because Gerrard is Scouse, I therefore believe he can't be criticised. Which as I've already proven is an idiotic statement so in future lad, learn to F***ing read. It's kind of essential on an internet forum.

And it's quite obvious how much of an anti-Scouse nature soft sh*te has.

Honestly, you couldn't make it up - first you say that Gerrard is the best player ever, then call me anti-scouse when I dare to disagree with what is quite possibly the biggest load of sh*te ever posted on a forum.

Nothing is obvious except your need to twist words and mince on about scousers being the best players the world has ever seen.

It's dishonest, and worse than that, it's absolute bollocks.

Honestly, you couldn't make it up - first you say that Gerrard is the best player ever, then call me anti-scouse when I dare to disagree with what is quite possibly the biggest load of sh*te ever posted on a forum.

Nothing is obvious except your need to twist words and mince on about scousers being the best players the world has ever seen.

It's dishonest, and worse than that, it's absolute bollocks.

Soft sh*te, just stop and think for a moment. Please. Where have I twisted anything? I've stuck to my belief that you have an anti-Scouse nature. I'm not arsed if anybody agrees with that notion or not. I believe it and that's good enough for me.

Secondly, I've said Gerrard is the best player I've seen. Yeah so what? What's been twisted? I'm agreeing I've said it. What's been twisted is your inability to read because you read that as me saying Scousers can't be criticised which is total bollocks as I've never said that.

Thirdly, Scousers are the best for your information in everything and anything.

Most influential band in history - Scousers (Beatles - Scousers I've crticised by the way soft sh*te).

Longest stand up in the game - Scousers (Jimmy Tarbuck and Ken Dodd).

Most annoying bi*ch ever to become famous - Scouser (Cilla Black). See, if in Scousers' worse points, we're better than anything else.

Most valuable city in this country's history - Liverpool - due to our importance of the slave trade. our constant contact with America during the World Wars allowing the rest of the nation to get access to the goods American troops brought over. The Toxteth riots had an impact on the country and how it's racial police force was run. We've had the most important port in the country, not only during the World Wars and slave trade but also for bringing in things such as coffee, tobacco, chocolate to some extent and of course letting the world's most famous ships leave, and come into to, this county most notably being the Titanic. First steam operated train was on the Liverpool to Manchester Railway. We have one of the original flag poles still at the ground from when the SS Great Eastern was almost sunk before Scousers rescued it. We have the name the Spion Kop because most of the soliders who died on that hill in the Bore War came from Liverpool.

So yeah Scousers are the F***ing best. Look at this forum, the best poster is Scouse - let you work out which one.

And that brings us to football. The best finisher in the Premiership - Scouser - Robbie Fowler. Best player in the Premiership era - Scouser - Steven Gerrard. Quickest hattrick scored - Scouser - Robbie Fowler.

But I know you have a problem with Scousers, so you'll probably misread this and make out it's me twisting things again and say that I believe Scousers can't be criticised. But that's because you're a dickhead, which isn't my problem.

Soft sh*te, just stop and think for a moment. Please. Where have I twisted anything? I've stuck to my belief that you have an anti-Scouse nature. I'm not arsed if anybody agrees with that notion or not. I believe it and that's good enough for me.

Secondly, I've said Gerrard is the best player I've seen. Yeah so what? What's been twisted? I'm agreeing I've said it. What's been twisted is your inability to read because you read that as me saying Scousers can't be criticised which is total bollocks as I've never said that.

Thirdly, Scousers are the best for your information in everything and anything.

Most influential band in history - Scousers (Beatles - Scousers I've crticised by the way soft sh*te).

Longest stand up in the game - Scousers (Jimmy Tarbuck and Ken Dodd).

Most annoying bi*ch ever to become famous - Scouser (Cilla Black). See, if in Scousers' worse points, we're better than anything else.

Most valuable city in this country's history - Liverpool - due to our importance of the slave trade. our constant contact with America during the World Wars allowing the rest of the nation to get access to the goods American troops brought over. The Toxteth riots had an impact on the country and how it's racial police force was run. We've had the most important port in the country, not only during the World Wars and slave trade but also for bringing in things such as coffee, tobacco, chocolate to some extent and of course letting the world's most famous ships leave, and come into to, this county most notably being the Titanic. First steam operated train was on the Liverpool to Manchester Railway. We have one of the original flag poles still at the ground from when the SS Great Eastern was almost sunk before Scousers rescued it. We have the name the Spion Kop because most of the soliders who died on that hill in the Bore War came from Liverpool.

So yeah Scousers are the f**king best. Look at this forum, the best poster is Scouse - let you work out which one.

And that brings us to football. The best finisher in the Premiership - Scouser - Robbie Fowler. Best player in the Premiership era - Scouser - Steven Gerrard. Quickest hattrick scored - Scouser - Robbie Fowler.

But I know you have a problem with Scousers, so you'll probably misread this and make out it's me twisting things again and say that I believe Scousers can't be criticised. But that's because you're a dickhead, which isn't my problem.

Guess my "and breathe" technique didn't work last time

Soft sh*te, just stop and think for a moment. Please. Where have I twisted anything? I've stuck to my belief that you have an anti-Scouse nature. I'm not arsed if anybody agrees with that notion or not. I believe it and that's good enough for me.

Secondly, I've said Gerrard is the best player I've seen. Yeah so what? What's been twisted? I'm agreeing I've said it. What's been twisted is your inability to read because you read that as me saying Scousers can't be criticised which is total bollocks as I've never said that.

Thirdly, Scousers are the best for your information in everything and anything.

Most influential band in history - Scousers (Beatles - Scousers I've crticised by the way soft sh*te).

Longest stand up in the game - Scousers (Jimmy Tarbuck and Ken Dodd).

Most annoying bi*ch ever to become famous - Scouser (Cilla Black). See, if in Scousers' worse points, we're better than anything else.

Most valuable city in this country's history - Liverpool - due to our importance of the slave trade. our constant contact with America during the World Wars allowing the rest of the nation to get access to the goods American troops brought over. The Toxteth riots had an impact on the country and how it's racial police force was run. We've had the most important port in the country, not only during the World Wars and slave trade but also for bringing in things such as coffee, tobacco, chocolate to some extent and of course letting the world's most famous ships leave, and come into to, this county most notably being the Titanic. First steam operated train was on the Liverpool to Manchester Railway. We have one of the original flag poles still at the ground from when the SS Great Eastern was almost sunk before Scousers rescued it. We have the name the Spion Kop because most of the soliders who died on that hill in the Bore War came from Liverpool.

So yeah Scousers are the f**king best. Look at this forum, the best poster is Scouse - let you work out which one.

And that brings us to football. The best finisher in the Premiership - Scouser - Robbie Fowler. Best player in the Premiership era - Scouser - Steven Gerrard. Quickest hattrick scored - Scouser - Robbie Fowler.

But I know you have a problem with Scousers, so you'll probably misread this and make out it's me twisting things again and say that I believe Scousers can't be criticised. But that's because you're a dickhead, which isn't my problem.

Amen!

Soft sh*te, just stop and think for a moment. Please. Where have I twisted anything? I've stuck to my belief that you have an anti-Scouse nature. I'm not arsed if anybody agrees with that notion or not. I believe it and that's good enough for me.

Secondly, I've said Gerrard is the best player I've seen. Yeah so what? What's been twisted? I'm agreeing I've said it. What's been twisted is your inability to read because you read that as me saying Scousers can't be criticised which is total bollocks as I've never said that.

Thirdly, Scousers are the best for your information in everything and anything.

Most influential band in history - Scousers (Beatles - Scousers I've crticised by the way soft sh*te).

Longest stand up in the game - Scousers (Jimmy Tarbuck and Ken Dodd).

Most annoying bi*ch ever to become famous - Scouser (Cilla Black). See, if in Scousers' worse points, we're better than anything else.

Most valuable city in this country's history - Liverpool - due to our importance of the slave trade. our constant contact with America during the World Wars allowing the rest of the nation to get access to the goods American troops brought over. The Toxteth riots had an impact on the country and how it's racial police force was run. We've had the most important port in the country, not only during the World Wars and slave trade but also for bringing in things such as coffee, tobacco, chocolate to some extent and of course letting the world's most famous ships leave, and come into to, this county most notably being the Titanic. First steam operated train was on the Liverpool to Manchester Railway. We have one of the original flag poles still at the ground from when the SS Great Eastern was almost sunk before Scousers rescued it. We have the name the Spion Kop because most of the soliders who died on that hill in the Bore War came from Liverpool.

So yeah Scousers are the f**king best. Look at this forum, the best poster is Scouse - let you work out which one.

And that brings us to football. The best finisher in the Premiership - Scouser - Robbie Fowler. Best player in the Premiership era - Scouser - Steven Gerrard. Quickest hattrick scored - Scouser - Robbie Fowler.

But I know you have a problem with Scousers, so you'll probably misread this and make out it's me twisting things again and say that I believe Scousers can't be criticised. But that's because you're a dickhead, which isn't my problem.

See it's that kind of sh*te that makes it so easy to disagree with you.

Forget the Gerrard part for a moment, I don't see anything "anti-scouse" that King has said in the slightest. Just because he's not proclaiming the scouse as the best footballers of all time that hardly makes him "anti-scouse".

The most influential band in history the Beatles? Not as far as I'm concerned, maybe for that "pop" sound that they latched on to first that completely ruined music in a way. Dylan may not have been as "influential" but so what that's because his greatness was something no one could even attempt to rip off and they'd have looked silly trying. Pink Floyd gave birth somewhat to a whole new era and genre of music and heavily influenced grunge and indie that came after it, truly original. I like the Beatles especially Lennon who when at his best his genius was his simplicity but the "influence" the Beatles had gave us the boy band and any sh*te being able to mass produce simple songs with no quality, thanks Brian Epstein. Hate to say it but the manc music scene kicked the arse off ours for quality, The Smiths, Joy Division, Oasis (though heavily influenced by the Beatles and arguably the only good thing that were). Not to mention Lennon and McCartney were both blueshite but I suppose that's alright like because it doesn't suit to be clouded by anti Everton bias here.

Longest stand up in the game, wow talk about clutching at straws. Tarby? You want to use him as why Liverpool are the best? Really? That would be like the NHS having Shipman as their posterboy.

The slave trade? I love that you think that's something to rave on. Congrats we were the ones that made the most money off a sickening industry that devalued the lives of those different to ourselves and we have some great buildings to show for it though eh? The toxteth riots? Of course it wasn't happening anywhere else like Brixton was it, oh and they're not good things by the way not something to brag about. There are plenty of things to brag about about this city but you're really not doing the best job!

The Spion Kop wasn't named so because there were more scousers on the hill in the battle than anywhere else, it was referred to by a journo from the Echo in the early 1900's in one of his articles about the vision he likened to that hill and the name stuck. There were Lancaster and Lancashire men that fought on that hill but from what I'm told the idea they named it is a myth.

Best player in the premiership era Steven Gerrard? Don't talk such sh*te. Bergkamp, Keane, Giggs, Zola, Shearer, they would all rightly be considered ahead of Gerrard.

Fowler? Yeah no contest, best finisher I've ever seen. One of the few things that isn't just hyperbole which we thrive off and which leads to any actually claiming of greatness being roundly and rightfully in the scheme of things looked upon with derision.

King can't be the best dickhead though, that would have to be a scouser as only the scouse can be the best at anything.

F***ing hell lad you're like that fella off "Goodness Gracious Me" the indian fella who claims everyone was Indian no matter how outrageous.

"Dad you know Neil Armstrong walked on the moon?"

"Yeah but there was a scouse lad called wakka that got there first son, everyone knows that."

I thought DLS was being sarcastic by defining all the best people being scouse.

I thought DLS was being sarcastic by defining all the best people being scouse.

He really wasn't.

See it's that kind of sh*te that makes it so easy to disagree with you.

Forget the Gerrard part for a moment, I don't see anything "anti-scouse" that King has said in the slightest. Just because he's not proclaiming the scouse as the best footballers of all time that hardly makes him "anti-scouse".

The most influential band in history the Beatles? Not as far as I'm concerned, maybe for that "pop" sound that they latched on to first that completely ruined music in a way. Dylan may not have been as "influential" but so what that's because his greatness was something no one could even attempt to rip off and they'd have looked silly trying. Pink Floyd gave birth somewhat to a whole new era and genre of music and heavily influenced grunge and indie that came after it, truly original. I like the Beatles especially Lennon who when at his best his genius was his simplicity but the "influence" the Beatles had gave us the boy band and any sh*te being able to mass produce simple songs with no quality, thanks Brian Epstein. Hate to say it but the manc music scene kicked the arse off ours for quality, The Smiths, Joy Division, Oasis (though heavily influenced by the Beatles and arguably the only good thing that were). Not to mention Lennon and McCartney were both blueshite but I suppose that's alright like because it doesn't suit to be clouded by anti Everton bias here.

Longest stand up in the game, wow talk about clutching at straws. Tarby? You want to use him as why Liverpool are the best? Really? That would be like the NHS having Shipman as their posterboy.

The slave trade? I love that you think that's something to rave on. Congrats we were the ones that made the most money off a sickening industry that devalued the lives of those different to ourselves and we have some great buildings to show for it though eh? The toxteth riots? Of course it wasn't happening anywhere else like Brixton was it, oh and they're not good things by the way not something to brag about. There are plenty of things to brag about about this city but you're really not doing the best job!

The Spion Kop wasn't named so because there were more scousers on the hill in the battle than anywhere else, it was referred to by a journo from the Echo in the early 1900's in one of his articles about the vision he likened to that hill and the name stuck. There were Lancaster and Lancashire men that fought on that hill but from what I'm told the idea they named it is a myth.

Best player in the premiership era Steven Gerrard? Don't talk such sh*te. Bergkamp, Keane, Giggs, Zola, Shearer, they would all rightly be considered ahead of Gerrard.

Fowler? Yeah no contest, best finisher I've ever seen. One of the few things that isn't just hyperbole which we thrive off and which leads to any actually claiming of greatness being roundly and rightfully in the scheme of things looked upon with derision.

King can't be the best dickhead though, that would have to be a scouser as only the scouse can be the best at anything.

F***ing hell lad you're like that fella off "Goodness Gracious Me" the indian fella who claims everyone was Indian no matter how outrageous.

"Dad you know Neil Armstrong walked on the moon?"

"Yeah but there was a scouse lad called wakka that got there first son, everyone knows that."

Christ almighty here comes Brains. I forgot soft sh*te couldn't speak for himself.

Anyway Brains, it's good to see you haven't taken my advice and learnt to read but instead interpret things. Where have I said the Toxteth riots or slave trade were something to brag about? I said the slave trade was because this city's port was the most important in the country - which is was you soft tw*t. And the Toxteth riots are something to F***ing brag about, you interpreted that rightly. I'm from Toxteth and proud as F**k about the riots. I'm not proud of why they happened, but I'm proud of how Toxteth stood together against the racist police force. It changed the way the police force was. Yeah there were riots in other areas, nothing like the ones in Tocky in 81. That's why the riots in other areas didn't stop the police constantly purposely harassing blacks around the country - the Toxteth riots did. It still happens, just not on a regular basis. And the Toxteth were not race wars like the rest of the country, they were instead wars with Toxteth as one and the police that's why they were most important in the country. It showed that white people hated the racist police brutality as much as the black people of the country.

Back to the slave trade, again I didn't F***ing say it was something to brag about. But it's a major part in my city's history and many of the buildings and streets in my city came about because of the slave trade. Because of the slave trade, a lot of me mates from Toxteth have got ancestors from that period. It happened because Liverpool had the most important port in the country - which is the point I made. Sorry if you missed that point but again that's not my problem if you can't read properly.

As for Beatles not being the most influential band in the music world - they clearly are. I don't really like the Beatles stuff, with the exception of one or two songs, but they changed music. They are the reasons why The Stone Roses, The Smiths, Joy Division, Happy Mondays, Oasis, Charlatans and any other Manchester indie band is in the F***ing business in the first place you stupid c**t. And Bob Dylan wasn't a band, he was a solo so he wasn't the most influential band was he Brains? F***ing hell, it sounds like I'm talking to a four year old.

And Jimmy Tarbuck is why Liverpool is great. A true Scouser, like Ken Dodd, he continued to be proud of his city. He's stuck to his profession for a lifetime. To be in any business for the amount of time they have, is something to be proud of and testament to their talent which is why they still sell out their shows. Same way bands like the Rolling Stones or Status Quo will still sell out and are still doing what they were doing fifty years ago - it's testament to their talent. So F**k off trying to slag Tarby off.

By the way the Spion Kop was named because most of the people who died on the Spion Kop hill in the Boer War were Scouse. That's history which you should know. If you think otherwise then you're wrong but like your inability to read isn't my fault.

Now for the football side of things - Gerrard is the best. No point arguing because it's clear as day. Again you're wrong but that isn't my fault.

Finally, where did I call him the best dickhead or have you got more problems reading but instead interpreting things? Fucks sake lad, as I told you earlier in the thread - learn to read. It's kind of essential on an internet forum. And I also fail to see how I've come anywhere near close saying everybody is Scouse (which I assume you mean by saying I'm like an Inidian fella who says everybody is Indian). I've simply proved why Scousers are the best.

PS - there wasn't a Scouser on the moon before Neil Armstrong, if there was the moon would of nicked and sold down Penny Lane under the name of "Real Space Cakes."

I saw the last few replies 24 hours ago and thought to myself, I'm sure they'll have calmed down by tomorrow and gone back to posting interesting football debate on the topic subject.

How wrong I was.

I don't know where we stopped talking about Lucas and the defensive midfield but we obviously have.

Topic Locked.