Is Carra Past It? What's the Ideal CB Partnership?

 Was excellent again against Everton. Unfortunately, he is now in that group of players which certain fans only notice when they make a mistake. Still the best defender at the club by a mile, and it would be a travesty to leave him out given his huge influence.

Not to me.

He's still a good defender. Reads the game super well and sees 2-3 seconds before moves are made. Fair enough, he certainly isn't the same Jamie Carragher as of few years ago but his experience and leadership qualities are important to the team and especially to the likes of Martin Kelly and even his other centre back partner (Skrtel or whoever).

 Carra has never been forgiven in certain quaters for some comments he made when a previous manager left. He could play like Beckanbauer every week and not get the credit he deserves from now on.

Carra has never been forgiven in certain quaters for some comments he made when a previous manager left. He could play like Beckanbauer every week and not get the credit he deserves from now on.

Aye, that is the impression I got as well. Gerrard got similar treatment for a while.

Its all been said before though.
Nothing new.

Rafa Benitez defends much-criticised Liverpool defender Jamie Carragher
Rafa Benitez is adamant his heavily criticised centre back Jamie Carragher is not only managing to stave off the ravages of time, but is improving as a defender with every game in which he marshals the Liverpool defence.

By Rory Smith

11:59PM BST 25 Sep 2009

For five years a stalwart of the Premier League’s most miserly back-line, Carragher’s apparent decline has come to symbolise the defensive frailties which have seen Liverpool ship nine goals in their opening six league games. His manager, though, never one to administer praise lightly, is staunch in his defence of his vice-captain.

“His fitness tests are better than they were at the beginning of the season,” said Benitez. “He is taking care of himself, training well and he has no injuries. In August, you train for stamina, not for speed, whereas now it is more for speed. I have checked the data and he is better than he was in August.


“Ok, you cannot improve your pace much, but Carra is a better defender now because his game intelligence is better than it was five years ago, when I arrived. With those extra years, you know your movement, your position and you know the other players, so, if you are fit like he is, you are a better defender. He is not going down, he is coming up. He has a lot of years left in him.”


Countless rationales have been offered for Liverpool’s apparent defensive lapses, from the traditional trotting out of the flaws of zonal marking at set pieces to Benitez’s sudden conversion to all-out attack, but the Spaniard insists the problem is not the system but individual errors.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/6232646/Rafa-Benitez-defends-much-criticised-Liverpool-defender-Jamie-Carragher.html

Carra has never been forgiven in certain quaters for some comments he made when a previous manager left. He could play like Beckanbauer every week and not get the credit he deserves from now on.

Conversely, when he plays sh*t, and at times he has, we get the 'he's a legend, leave him alone' brigade out in force.  Why can't we just say he played well or didn't without being put into certain camps by one side or other of obvious agendas?  Carra is a legend but I don't think he's a great player, for me he'd not get in a best XI  during my lifetime, let alone the club as a whole.

Conversely, when he plays sh*t, and at times he has, we get the 'he's a legend, leave him alone' brigade out in force.

Aye, but it does seem to be that whenever he has a good game, those who are on his back, never jump off it to say 'well done, today Carra!'.

 Well of course he wouldn't get in the best eleven in the clubs history, but that's not saying much when you consider only Gerrard and possibly Reina would have a sniff out of the current squad.

Carra as much as I rate him and regard him as a proper legend of the club, I've noticed our defensive line is dropping deeper and deeper in games to make up for his obvious lack of pace.

I'd like to see a Agger Skrtel partnership at some times in the season (obviously if both are fit) as I think that partnership would allow us to hold a higher defensicve line and not only cut the gap between defense and midfield but will help us press the opposition more.

Carra as much as I rate him and regard him as a proper legend of the club, I've noticed our defensive line is dropping deeper and deeper in games to make up for his obvious lack of pace.

I'd like to see a Agger Skrtel partnership at some times in the season (obviously if both are fit) as I think that partnership would allow us to hold a higher defensicve line and not only cut the gap between defense and midfield but will help us press the opposition more.

 I personally think that if we had an Agger Skrtel partnership, it would become very obvious very quickly that neither are out of the very top drawer as defenders.

I'm amazed that so many people think he shouldn't be an automatic starter. Other than his quality he gives us what Danny, Skrtel or Coates doesn't; real leadership and a determination incomparable to our other CB's. I don't think people realize the significance of his experience to help, in particular, younger defenders through 90 minutes.

I'm amazed that so many people think he shouldn't be an automatic starter. Other than his quality he gives us what Danny, Skrtel or Coates doesn't; real leadership and a determination incomparable to our other CB's. I don't think people realize the significance of his experience to help, in particular, younger defenders through 90 minutes.

 Great post mate, spot on the money.

I'm amazed that so many people think he shouldn't be an automatic starter. Other than his quality he gives us what Danny, Skrtel or Coates doesn't; real leadership and a determination incomparable to our other CB's. I don't think people realize the significance of his experience to help, in particular, younger defenders through 90 minutes.

It's because we can't have two generals in our back line.  So, if we are going to have one of Agger, Skrtel, Coates, or Wilson take over the leadership role from Carra, we need them start playing in that role now. 

While Carra can still play at the highest level, he is having difficult games and causing us uneasy moments (costing us points on occasion) because he has lost a step.  This will only continue to get worse as time wears on.  We need to start nurturing one of our younger CB's to become our new defensive leader so that next season (and the seasons after that) we can make a real run at winning the league, FA Cup, and Champions League!! 

I'm amazed that so many people think he shouldn't be an automatic starter. Other than his quality he gives us what Danny, Skrtel or Coates doesn't; real leadership and a determination incomparable to our other CB's. I don't think people realize the significance of his experience to help, in particular, younger defenders through 90 minutes.

No player should be an automatic starter, ever.

 I personally think that if we had an Agger Skrtel partnership, it would become very obvious very quickly that neither are out of the very top drawer as defenders.

I disagree mate, although Skrtel is prone to an error or two which normally coincides with when we are so deep as it invites pressure, but Agger is a top notch defender, the only strike I've got against Agger is Aerial ability other than that he reads the game well, has a decent turn of pace, and knows how to tackle.

 I personally think that if we had an Agger Skrtel partnership, it would become very obvious very quickly that neither are out of the very top drawer as defenders.

nah agger is quality. as redlfc suggests, his aerial prowess isn't as good as say carra or even skrtl, but everything else is top class.

agger/coates partnership is the future. injuries are the only thing that is stopping agger from being the leader in defence so carra can take a step back tbh. if coates gets up to speed, he can dominate any aerial threat, with agger reading an organising the defence. both can dribble and pass, so i see those two as the future. maybe as early as regulars next season.

however, i'd give agger one more season to see if he can get through it without major injury problems. if he is still constantly injured this season, we need to sell him in summer and buy a proven young defender who can be a rock in defence with coates.

It's because we can't have two generals in our back line.  So, if we are going to have one of Agger, Skrtel, Coates, or Wilson take over the leadership role from Carra, we need them start playing in that role now. 

While Carra can still play at the highest level, he is having difficult games and causing us uneasy moments (costing us points on occasion) because he has lost a step.  This will only continue to get worse as time wears on.  We need to start nurturing one of our younger CB's to become our new defensive leader so that next season (and the seasons after that) we can make a real run at winning the league, FA Cup, and Champions League!! 

Mate Carra has never been quick, I think that whenever he makes a mistake people say "oh his legs are gone, he's finished". It's inevitable that Carra will lose more speed as he gets older, but he's never relied on that, only his anticipation and defending knowledge. So it kind of annoys me when people say we need a quick centre back when Carra has never been quick but has managed to become one of the clubs greatest defenders.

Mate Carra has never been quick, I think that whenever he makes a mistake people say "oh his legs are gone, he's finished". It's inevitable that Carra will lose more speed as he gets older, but he's never relied on that, only his anticipation and defending knowledge. So it kind of annoys me when people say we need a quick centre back when Carra has never been quick but has managed to become one of the clubs greatest defenders.

Your right, you don't have to be quick to be a great centre back,( big Sami was never the quickest) , but Carra' has been making a few mistakes this season, which seems to indicate his tactical awareness isn't what it used to be. As much as I wish he could gone for ever, he just can't, so maybe it's time to bring through Coates as Agger's long term partner (providing Daniel can stay injury free for a decent lenth of time.

Mate Carra has never been quick, I think that whenever he makes a mistake people say "oh his legs are gone, he's finished". It's inevitable that Carra will lose more speed as he gets older, but he's never relied on that, only his anticipation and defending knowledge. So it kind of annoys me when people say we need a quick centre back when Carra has never been quick but has managed to become one of the clubs greatest defenders.

To be fair to those who have criticised Carra he does look a little slower in terms of flat speed and he also looks a bit stiff in the hips but I think it's important to look at our defence in the context of the season and the truth is we've looked pretty solid for the most part. Unfortunately Agger can't seem to stay fit for more than 6 weeks at a time, he was just coming in to his best form since the 09 season when injury struck once again and I fear this will be his luck for the rest of his career. Hopefully Coates can be brought along slowly this season and not thrown in at the deep end as he was at Spurs but for the time being Carra is the man for me.

Carra has never been forgiven in certain quaters for some comments he made when a previous manager left. He could play like Beckanbauer every week and not get the credit he deserves from now on.

I think it's a bit simplistic to put it like that mick.

I have been critical with Carra over the last season or so for various reasons but since Kenny took over I actually think he has been our most consistent defender.

His fondness for the long ball and his lack of pace and sitting too deep still concern me but as an out and out defender he is still the best we have and I think he will play more often than not this season.

Well he F***ing dealt with everything Everton threw at him in the Derby, as did Skrtel and that right now would be my first choice at the back as I don't think we can rely on Agger's fitness and he'd probably be out of the team so often that it'd disrupt us if he was first choice center half because every four or five games they'd be a change at the back and every great team builds from the back. Center half is the one position you can't piss about with.

The pairing at the back need to build up a partnership with one another until they know almost instinctively what the other is going to do. People talking about the partnership between Suarez and Carroll, I'm more concerned with the partnership at the heart of the defence. Pepe also needs to know who is gonna be in front of him more often than not.

I don't think Carra has had any real disatrous games this season bar Spurs which the whole side fu**ed up for. He's just been unfortunate to of made one mistake per game that's led to a goal (not cutting the ball out against Bolton though still having the ability to get back and make up for the error but his clearance fell straight to Klasnic, and being outmuscled and bringing down Walters for the penalty). Personally I think Carra's had a good start to the season.

Yeah we're sitting deep but that's common sense. If you're scared of people getting in behind you, you don't give them the space to do so and I don't think it's really hurt us as of yet. Yeah he lashes the ball forward, so what. He's always done that and still went on to play over 670 games for the club. It's not something that's crept up, it's something Jamie Carragher has always done.

So for me, it's not ideal because I don't think Skrtel is great but the partnership at the back for me would be Carra and Skrtel. If we could get a full season out of Agger, he'd play alongside Carra.

Okay, so this was only the first game he was back available for, but what are people's thoughts on the vice captain not being picked to play?

Down to tactics specifically for this game?

Down to the recent good form of Agger and Skrtel?

Would people bring him back for City?

I wouldnt change it personally, a settled back 4 is what defensive stability is built upon, start chopping and changing every few games then that stability is gone.

Carra whilst he's been a great player and servant for us should not be allowed to walk straight back into the team on name alone and I think Kenny done the right thing today starting with Agger and Skrtel.

There will only be healthy competition for places if players know they are getting in the team on merit and not reputation.